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fewarechosen
Jul 1st 2011, 04:59 PM
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.




God made both male and female and called THEM adam. When I keep that in mind when reading of Adam AND Eve it shows something.

MoreMercy
Jul 1st 2011, 05:10 PM
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.


God made both male and female and called THEM adam. When I keep that in mind when reading of Adam AND Eve it shows something.

Ok, I'll bite: what does it show you ?


Father bless, and have mercy on all of us.

fewarechosen
Jul 1st 2011, 05:41 PM
Ok, I'll bite: what does it show you ?


Father bless, and have mercy on all of us.

Not sure if there is much to bite on. I know Adam is both male and female so out of Adam(both male and female) was Eve taken.

the ADAM in garden was both male and female not one male.

so its nothing outside of scripture just makes me ponder much.

-SEEKING-
Jul 1st 2011, 05:44 PM
Adam both male and female

The simple answer.....

No.

Mankind was created before they appeared on the earth. Notice God made them, then God formed them.

fewarechosen
Jul 1st 2011, 05:58 PM
The simple answer.....

No.

Mankind was created before they appeared on the earth. Notice God made them, then God formed them.

I take scripture at its word i guess Adam was created both male and female. and They were named adam.

and YES adam(both male and female) was formed from the dirt. both scriptures are true .

i should edit the above because its not to say adam was both genders in one its to say Adam is a THEY both male and female.

MoreMercy
Jul 1st 2011, 06:31 PM
Not sure if there is much to bite on. I know Adam is both male and female so out of Adam(both male and female) was Eve taken.

the ADAM in garden was both male and female not one male.
I can see how one might understand it that way but, I do not see the scripture saying that Adam was composed of both male and female, but saying that both Adam and Eve were titled by Him as Adam or literally: (red complected man)


so its nothing outside of scripture just makes me ponder much.
Pondering scripture is good, very good and very profitable. And sharing the results of those ponderings is just as good and just as profitable for all of us, not just the one sharing what they have been pondering.

But pondering on just one verse with out reflecting on other portions of our bible which speak of the same things using the same words is going to lead one into creating some assumptions that will be contrary to what else our bibles say about the subject we choose to ponder at any given time. ....does that make any sense ?


Father bless. and have mercy on all of us.

Slug1
Jul 1st 2011, 06:37 PM
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.




God made both male and female and called THEM adam. When I keep that in mind when reading of Adam AND Eve it shows something.This shows the spiritual significance that a male and female joined as husband and wife are "one" body once married.

We Are
Jul 1st 2011, 06:38 PM
The account of Adam and Eve, even if literal and historical, is more importantly a shadow of the transformation and ascension process that man must go through in order to be clothed with immortality.

As 1 Corinthians 15 tells us, the first "Adam" is from the dust, and the last "Adam" is from the heavens. Eve is to Adam as the bride of the Christ is to the Christ.

Male and female, in terms of the flesh, are merely types or even illusions of a higher truth.

For example, although in the scripture we read of Yahshua being a "male," He actually took on a "female" role of the Godhead, being subserviant to the Father, covering His glory by speaking in parables, telling the disciples not to reveal who He was, not calling upon angels to save Him from His plight (as women are instructed to cover their glory - the hair on their heads), and so on.

In the "Old Testament," Godhead, as Yahweh showed Its masculine aspects - vengeance, wrath, war, bloodshed, and taking kingdoms by force. (Matthew 11:12) In the "New Testament," Godhead revealed Its "feminine" attributes, albeit in the physical body of a male - turning the other cheek, subserviance, doing violence to no one, etc. "Eye for an eye" is masculine, "turn the other cheek" is feminine.

All of creation is based upon this male/female contrast, and this is laid out in hidden form in the very first chapter of Genesis. Heavens = male, earth = female, etc.

The male's reproductive anatomy is visible (light, day), while the female's is hidden (darkness, night). This all ties into seeds being planted and hidden in the earth to produce, even as a man's seed is planted in the darkness of the womb to produce the fruit of the loins.

The opening chapters of Genesis are very parabolic and hold many keys that reveal to us the origins of existence as we know it, and even the composition of the Godhead Itself, and the All. While it may or may not be literal history, what's more important is to seek out the hidden messages contained within the stories.

bob
Jul 1st 2011, 07:05 PM
Can't the word used for Adam in Genesis 5:2 also be translated as man?

fewarechosen
Jul 1st 2011, 07:12 PM
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

much of what you all have said i agree with, much of scripture has many levels and we dont get to see them all at once.

i ponder the woman clothed in the son and that birth. i ponder who she is and her travail and how it was to give birth to the man child.

then i ponder the relationship between the WOMAN - eve in relation to man. the WOMAN ate of knowledge of good/evil then fed it to the MAN causing them to both to be cast out of heaven.

Thats why her travail was multiplied.

also Satan decieved HER then she fed it to Him.

We Are
Jul 1st 2011, 07:35 PM
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

much of what you all have said i agree with, much of scripture has many levels and we dont get to see them all at once.

i ponder the woman clothed in the son and that birth. i ponder who she is and her travail and how it was to give birth to the man child.

then i ponder the relationship between the WOMAN - eve in relation to man. the WOMAN ate of knowledge of good/evil then fed it to the MAN causing them to both to be cast out of heaven.

Thats why her travail was multiplied.

Remember the NT states that the man was not deceived, but it was the woman who was deceived. This could give us a big reason to believe that Adam purposely "ate the fruit" in order to remain with his bride. We know that Adam and the Christ are types of one another according to scripture, and it seems evident that even as Christ left heaven by taking on the likeness of sinful flesh in order to eventually be with a bride, so too did Adam knowingly and purposely take on expulsion from the garden (heaven) in order to be with his bride.

Also remember that headship is crucial in all of this - NT scripture "blames" Adam for sin coming into humanity, even though Eve was the first to "sin." This relates to scripture teaching that the man Christ in human form as Yahshua takin on the sins for the church, His bride. Adam gets the "blame" because the man is the head of the woman, even as Christ got the "blame" on the cross, as He is the head of mankind.

fewarechosen
Jul 1st 2011, 07:47 PM
Remember the NT states that the man was not deceived, but it was the woman who was deceived. This could give us a big reason to believe that Adam purposely "ate the fruit" in order to remain with his bride. We know that Adam and the Christ are types of one another according to scripture, and it seems evident that even as Christ left heaven by taking on the likeness of sinful flesh in order to eventually be with a bride, so too did Adam knowingly and purposely take on expulsion from the garden (heaven) in order to be with his bride.

Also remember that headship is crucial in all of this - NT scripture "blames" Adam for sin coming into humanity, even though Eve was the first to "sin." This relates to scripture teaching that the man Christ in human form as Yahshua takin on the sins for the church, His bride. Adam gets the "blame" because the man is the head of the woman, even as Christ got the "blame" on the cross, as He is the head of mankind.

great to think on thanks a bunch for the post.

Beckrl
Jul 1st 2011, 08:01 PM
What this verse seems to indicate to me is how that throughout the bible it's relates to a MAN. Even in the beginning where both Man and wo-Man would be called MAN. This continues in how both Jews and Gentiles come together as one New Man [Adam]. This MAN can also be spoken of as the BODY as if one. That would be the Image of God that he created them and called them MAN.

watchinginawe
Jul 2nd 2011, 01:05 AM
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.




God made both male and female and called THEM adam. When I keep that in mind when reading of Adam AND Eve it shows something. Some folks see Adam as a plurality, a people. Kind of like Israel.

AmongTheLeast
Jul 2nd 2011, 01:12 AM
Remember the NT states that the man was not deceived, but it was the woman who was deceived. This could give us a big reason to believe that Adam purposely "ate the fruit" in order to remain with his bride. We know that Adam and the Christ are types of one another according to scripture, and it seems evident that even as Christ left heaven by taking on the likeness of sinful flesh in order to eventually be with a bride, so too did Adam knowingly and purposely take on expulsion from the garden (heaven) in order to be with his bride.

Also remember that headship is crucial in all of this - NT scripture "blames" Adam for sin coming into humanity, even though Eve was the first to "sin." This relates to scripture teaching that the man Christ in human form as Yahshua takin on the sins for the church, His bride. Adam gets the "blame" because the man is the head of the woman, even as Christ got the "blame" on the cross, as He is the head of mankind.


great to think on thanks a bunch for the post.

Indeed much to think on. I do have one question I would love to hear We Are weigh in on. If Adam "as Christ" purposefully ate the fruit, why did he take it from Eve who did give it unto her husband, and why did he just not eat freely of himself when he saw that Eve did eat?

I look forward to your answer We Are. Thank you!

nzyr
Jul 2nd 2011, 02:07 AM
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

In other words human beings are comprised of both male and female. And God made them this way.

Also...

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of god. Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

(1 Corinthians 11:1-16)

Kahtar
Jul 2nd 2011, 02:33 AM
If Adam "as Christ" purposefully ate the fruit, why did he take it from Eve who did give it unto her husband, and why did he just not eat freely of himself when he saw that Eve did eat?I'm not We Are, but here's my input. Adam and Eve, as was pointed out, were types of Christ and the church. Eve sinned, but Adam took that sin upon himself, as is evidenced throughout scripture which places the blame/guilt on him rather than Eve. Eve is then termed the 'mother of all living', while Adam is the bringer of death. They trade places in other words, just as Christ took our place on the cross. He took our sin, we were given His righteousness. We traded places.

AmongTheLeast
Jul 2nd 2011, 04:15 AM
I'm not We Are, but here's my input. Adam and Eve, as was pointed out, were types of Christ and the church. Eve sinned, but Adam took that sin upon himself, as is evidenced throughout scripture which places the blame/guilt on him rather than Eve. Eve is then termed the 'mother of all living', while Adam is the bringer of death. They trade places in other words, just as Christ took our place on the cross. He took our sin, we were given His righteousness. We traded places.

Interesting topic, and I thank God that he has brought us together to increase wisdom! This thread has some intriguing ideas. But I wonder how this scripture then would be read?

Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Christ being Adam is afraid of the Lord? ...and naked? ...and hid himself? God commanded Christ not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

I look forward to the replies.

Nihil Obstat
Jul 2nd 2011, 04:41 AM
Can't the word used for Adam in Genesis 5:2 also be translated as man?

That's what I'm like.

AmongTheLeast
Jul 2nd 2011, 05:06 AM
God is not the author of confusion. I don't see God letting something as simple as translation muddy his Word. Therefore let us consider the following:

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I will put enmity between thee and the woman...and thou shalt bruis HIS heel? That's twice gender is used specifically to make a point and I would not think it could be chalked up to pure happenstance.

It is truth.

nzyr
Jul 2nd 2011, 07:05 AM
God is not the author of confusion. I don't see God letting something as simple as translation muddy his Word. Therefore let us consider the following:

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I will put enmity between thee and the woman...and thou shalt bruis HIS heel? That's twice gender is used specifically to make a point and I would not think it could be chalked up to pure happenstance.

It is truth.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The seed is Jesus. This could mean the first and second comings of Christ. (Genesis 3:15)

..."bruise his heel" was when Jesus died on a cross for our sins. ..."bruise thy head" is when Jesus returns and defeats Satan and sets up his kingdom on the earth.

AmongTheLeast
Jul 2nd 2011, 01:40 PM
I agree with you completely nzyr, thank you for that.

So it is with Adam as well. Male and female created he them, and called them Adam.

Nihil Obstat
Jul 2nd 2011, 01:55 PM
I had a lady teacher in seminary who taught that at first "Adam" was both a male and female individual, and that when God took from Adam's "side", it meant the front side / female half, and she used this to teach on why men have feminine traits and women have masculine traits, and that God is both fatherly and motherly, and that men do not have authority over women. (This belief may have derived from an ancient Greek philosopher who taught something similar, that originally humanity was made up of males, females, and male / females, and that the male / female kind was divided by a god, and he used this to teach on why both heterosexuality and homosexuality were natural tendencies.) But if this is how we are to understand Genesis 1-3, how could such a joint human "be fruitful and multiply"? Why was a suitable helper not found by "Adam"? Furthermore, if such a composite creature had been split down the middle, how would it feel sudden satisfaction when presented with it's other half? - the conscience that looked for a helper was the same conscience that found the woman to be that helper: so where was the woman's conscience in all this? - and why would the man feel excitement when presented with the woman if he had already intimately known (even more so before) the woman? The whole thing is jacked up. It says, "male and female He created them", not "him" or "it". The obvious answer to the so-called problem of plurality in "Adam" is that one of the Hebrew words for human is "adam". Just because the translating team chose to capitalize that word here doesn't mean they got it right in that instance; not all Bible translations agree when adam means all humanity and when it means the one man in Eden. (And besides all this, such a weird theory would render Jesus' rebuttal in Matt. 19:3-6 a bunch of nonsense.)

bob
Jul 2nd 2011, 03:24 PM
If my memory of my biology class serves well, there is no way Adam would have produced normal kids, he would be passing on some of the wrong genes if he had the genetic code of both a man and a woman; they would have serious problems I expect.

Beckrl
Jul 2nd 2011, 09:32 PM
Galations 4:21-31 gives some insight into Eve. Where Israel is seen as the bondwoman of the flesh and those of the Spirit the freewoman.

BroRog
Jul 2nd 2011, 11:04 PM
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.




God made both male and female and called THEM adam. When I keep that in mind when reading of Adam AND Eve it shows something.The term "Adam" is both a name and a noun that means "human". In order to understand this, we recall that God gave Adam the task of naming all the animals, and we assume that Adam didn't use random nouns to name them but studied the features and characteristics of each animal carefully before giving it a designation that captured each animal's unique characteristic. Adam was called "adam" because he was the first human in existence and his name connotes his (our) uniqueness by comparison and contrast to other creatures. Having designated this particular creature "adam", that also became his name, "Adam". Eve was called "adam" not because she was male, but because she was human.

ross3421
Jul 4th 2011, 01:18 AM
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.




God made both male and female and called THEM adam. When I keep that in mind when reading of Adam AND Eve it shows something.

Ahh....... love it. You will get much push back on this topic but you have definately noticed something most refuse to see. Yes God created male and female and called THEIR name both Adam, why, how is this possible. In the day God created the heavens he created spirit beings of course before physical beings thus the first physical female was Eve and not Adam of course. Most think that God continues to created spirits when a new creature is born but the text says God was finished creating after the 7 days. What we have inb the first week of creation is spiritual in nature and God give these beings commands.

Have a look in the second chapter and you will see man formed upon the earth BEFORE the animals when chapter 1 has it in reverse......

This is because spiritual man was created before physical man was formed, God eluded this different sequence to be noticed and understood. See man was created in God's image as a spirit being but we are created in Adams likeness and after his image physically.

Ge 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Ge 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Ge 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

The two beings spiritual and physical are not born as one but become one when one is born again..

MoreMercy
Jul 4th 2011, 03:54 AM
The term "Adam" is both a name and a noun that means "human". In order to understand this, we recall that God gave Adam the task of naming all the animals, and we assume that Adam didn't use random nouns to name them but studied the features and characteristics of each animal carefully before giving it a designation that captured each animal's unique characteristic. Adam was called "adam" because he was the first human in existence and his name connotes his (our) uniqueness by comparison and contrast to other creatures. Having designated this particular creature "adam", that also became his name, "Adam". Eve was called "adam" not because she was male, but because she was human.
Exactly ! ...and, amen.


Father bless, and have mercy on us.

MoreMercy
Jul 4th 2011, 05:02 AM
Ahh....... love it. You will get much push back on this topic but you have definately noticed something most refuse to see. Yes God created male and female and called THEIR name both Adam, why, how is this possible. In the day God created the heavens he created spirit beings of course before physical beings thus the first physical female was Eve and not Adam of course. Most think that God continues to created spirits when a new creature is born but the text says God was finished creating after the 7 days. What we have inb the first week of creation is spiritual in nature and God give these beings commands.

Have a look in the second chapter and you will see man formed upon the earth BEFORE the animals when chapter 1 has it in reverse......

This is because spiritual man was created before physical man was formed, God eluded this different sequence to be noticed and understood. See man was created in God's image as a spirit being but we are created in Adams likeness and after his image physically.

Ge 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Ge 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Ge 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

The two beings spiritual and physical are not born as one but become one when one is born again..
Howdy ross3421
I want to ask you only one question.

: isn't it the same Hebrew word created used in both records: posted below ?


1st record:
The word created h6213 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6213&t=KJV) עשה`asah, and formed h3335 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3335&t=KJV) יצר yatsar, the word created or formed when used in Genesis chapter 1 & 2 account of Adams creation.

2nd record:
And again in Genesis chapter 6, the word created/formed/made h6213 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6213&t=KJV) עשה`asah, the word created or formed when used by Father when He said: He regrets/repents that He created or formed man from the dust/earth.
("created" us in flesh)



Because if you cannot explain that, then it still looks very safe to agree and amen with what Father's words say: man/Adam was created/formed/made on the 6th day of the worlds creation, not before the world was created, but on the 6th day of the worlds and universes creation.
I hope very much you will answer because it may help open the eyes of some of Father's children who read this thread, and maybe some who have posted on this thread here too.

My bibles teach me that only Father, His only begotten Son and their Holy Spirit existed before the creation of the world and also before all of the universe and heaven itself !

Where do our bibles indicate man was created before He created us in flesh on the 6th day of His creation's'...



Father bless, and have mercy on us.

ross3421
Jul 4th 2011, 12:22 PM
Where do our bibles indicate man was created before He created us in flesh on the 6th day of His creation's'...[/B]

Your assuming that physical man was created on the 6th day but this is not the case.

1. Both male and female were called Adam when created. The subject of the thread.
2. Man created after animals ch1, on earth before animals ch2.
3. The host of them were finished after the 7 days.

All of them were created after the first week could only pertain to a spiritual creations of the heavens, ie the host of heaven. On the 6th day man was made in God's image as a spirit being after the likeness of God. After the 7 days then God formed made FROM THE EARTH mixed with water whereas the creation in ch1 was from his spoken word alone.



isn't it the same Hebrew word created[/B] used in both records: posted below ?


1st record:
The word created h6213 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6213&t=KJV) עשה`asah, and formed h3335 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3335&t=KJV) יצר yatsar, the word created or formed when used in Genesis chapter 1 & 2 account of Adams creation.

2nd record:
And again in Genesis chapter 6, the word created/formed/made h6213 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6213&t=KJV) עשה`asah, the word created or formed when used by Father when He said: He regrets/repents that He created or formed man from the dust/earth.
("created" us in flesh)


The word created in chapter 1 is "Bara".

Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The word formed in chapter 2 is "Yatsar".

Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

fewarechosen
Jul 4th 2011, 09:33 PM
Ahh....... love it. You will get much push back on this topic but you have definately noticed something most refuse to see. Yes God created male and female and called THEIR name both Adam, why, how is this possible. In the day God created the heavens he created spirit beings of course before physical beings thus the first physical female was Eve and not Adam of course. Most think that God continues to created spirits when a new creature is born but the text says God was finished creating after the 7 days. What we have inb the first week of creation is spiritual in nature and God give these beings commands.

Have a look in the second chapter and you will see man formed upon the earth BEFORE the animals when chapter 1 has it in reverse......

This is because spiritual man was created before physical man was formed, God eluded this different sequence to be noticed and understood. See man was created in God's image as a spirit being but we are created in Adams likeness and after his image physically.

Ge 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Ge 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Ge 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

The two beings spiritual and physical are not born as one but become one when one is born again..

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

i believe this above refers to them getting cast out and put into flesh.

Adam(spiritual humanity in heaven) was created, Woman was then formed OUT of adam in heaven( out of spiritual humnity was the woman taken in heaven and formed). Then in heaven The serpent decieved the Woman. Then they were both cast out. Woman was made (out) of Man(royal Man) as a helper but she led man into transgression. Some take this to mean female I take it to mean The Woman.

MoreMercy
Jul 5th 2011, 07:44 AM
Your assuming that physical man was created on the 6th day but this is not the case.

1. Both male and female were called Adam when created. The subject of the thread.
2. Man created after animals ch1, on earth before animals ch2.
3. The host of them were finished after the 7 days.

All of them were created after the first week could only pertain to a spiritual creations of the heavens, ie the host of heaven. On the 6th day man was made in God's image as a spirit being after the likeness of God. After the 7 days then God formed made FROM THE EARTH mixed with water whereas the creation in ch1 was from his spoken word alone.




The word created in chapter 1 is "Bara".

Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The word formed in chapter 2 is "Yatsar".

Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Gen 1:26 is the first record of mans creation in my bibles, presented with the call no# for each word below:
There is no other account prior to this account. As you, unless I misunderstand you propose that we were created beings prior to this account in our bibles...

Gen 1:26
And God 430 said 559 , Let us make 6213 עשה`asah (not "Bara") let us make man 120 אדם'adam in our image 6754, after our likeness 1823: and let them have dominion 7287 over the fish 1710 of the sea 3220, and over the fowl 5775 of the air 8064, and over the cattle 929, and over all the earth 776, and over every creeping thing 7431 that creepeth 7430 upon the earth 776.

I do not see "Bara" used in the first account of mans creation as you present, maybe you can offer which bible you see this word used in Genesis 1:26. Or where the verse is where that word is used to present to us Adams/mans creation ?

Now the contrast which I presented in my first post to you to discuss your proposal that we were created beings prior to being created as adam/man... you seem to totally ignore ?

: isn't it the same Hebrew word created used in both records: posted below ?


1st record:
The word created h6213 עשה`asah, and formed h3335 יצר yatsar, the word created or formed when used in Genesis chapter 1 & 2 account of Adams creation.

2nd record:
And again in Genesis chapter 6, the word created/formed/made h6213 עשה`asah, the word created or formed when used by Father when He said: He regrets/repents that He created or formed man from the dust/earth.
("created" us in flesh)



Because if you cannot explain that, then it still looks very safe to agree and amen with what Father's words say: man/Adam was created/formed/made on the 6th day of the worlds creation, not before the world was created, but on the 6th day of the worlds and universes creation.
I hope very much you will answer because it may help open the eyes of some of Father's children who read this thread, and maybe some who have posted on this thread here too.

Father chose the word created h6213 עשה`asah in His first account of mans creation presented to us.
And, in Genesis chapter 6 He confirms that by using the same Hebrew word again (that we were created from the dust/earth). But you propose that we were created prior to Father's account of this in His word presented to us in His recorded words ?

Now again, I may misunderstand you, so I offer you to address my misunderstanding of what you presented. Or, you can effort again to spin what I post to you into something else.
Or speak to the points I made in reply to you.


Father have mercy on us.

We Are
Jul 5th 2011, 02:38 PM
Indeed much to think on. I do have one question I would love to hear We Are weigh in on. If Adam "as Christ" purposefully ate the fruit, why did he take it from Eve who did give it unto her husband, and why did he just not eat freely of himself when he saw that Eve did eat?

I look forward to your answer We Are. Thank you!

This is a great question!

As far as getting into the pyschological aspects of Adam's individual decision, I couldn't say. But what's more important to us now is the overall prophetic lesson taught by this story.

This can get quite complex, but I believe the symbolism of Eve giving Adam the forbidden fruit represents the corruption of the church not long after Christ ascended to heaven amongst other things.

One of those thigns is this: As scripture says, Christ tasted death for every man. It also says that He "became sin/a sin offering," and that He appeared in the likeness of sinful flesh, giving Himself for His church/bride. This would seem to be why Adam ate the fruit that his bride gave to him instead of taking a new piece of fruit for himself. The Christ left heaven and took on the same sinful flesh body in which His bride has occupied. Adam eating Eve's fruit is equated with Christ taking on the sins of His church/bride.

Ta-An
Jul 5th 2011, 04:58 PM
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.




God made both male and female and called THEM adam. When I keep that in mind when reading of Adam AND Eve it shows something.
Gen2:23 And the man ( הָאָדָם) {the adam} said: 'This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman,( אִשָּׁה ) {issah} because she was taken out of Man.' (אִישׁ) {iss} The kamatz hey, shows the female form of 'man' , same wat as the 'wo' infront of 'man' shows part of man...



This to me, is a sign that carries the emphasis of Gal3:28...marriage makes us one... again

GEN3:20 And the man ( הָאָדָם ) {the adam}called his wife's name Eve; (חַוָּה) {'chuah'} because she was the mother of all living. (חָי) (Chai) {life}

You know the Jews say L'Chaim = To life...

percho
Jul 5th 2011, 06:40 PM
Ahh....... love it. You will get much push back on this topic but you have definately noticed something most refuse to see. Yes God created male and female and called THEIR name both Adam, why, how is this possible. In the day God created the heavens he created spirit beings of course before physical beings thus the first physical female was Eve and not Adam of course. Most think that God continues to created spirits when a new creature is born but the text says God was finished creating after the 7 days. What we have inb the first week of creation is spiritual in nature and God give these beings commands.

Have a look in the second chapter and you will see man formed upon the earth BEFORE the animals when chapter 1 has it in reverse......

This is because spiritual man was created before physical man was formed, God eluded this different sequence to be noticed and understood. See man was created in God's image as a spirit being but we are created in Adams likeness and after his image physically.

Ge 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Ge 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Ge 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

The two beings spiritual and physical are not born as one but become one when one is born again..


I am not real sure I understand what you are saying so let me ask for understanding. Are you saying Adam was first created a spiritual being consisting of both male and female Gen. 1:26-31 thru 2:1-4?
Then after the seventh day passed God made the physical man instructed him about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and then removed the physical woman from him as his wife to be joined with him physically? At this time she is not named. This is the timeline, chronology of the creature/creation spiritual Adam/man/woman, physical Adam/male/woman the Man Adam, Woman sin Adam Eve mother of all living?

That was Adam. Now let's move forward to your great grandfather and great grandmother. For the purpose of the theology of the discussion they are both Christians. For uniformity (may be a bad choice of words) of the universe do they have to exist spiritually before there physical birth or has the process reversed because of sin. What is there progression of existence?

It is interesting that the name came after sin and everything said is related to sexuality, naked, thy seed, her seed, thy conception, thy desire, and And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Anyone else interested as was said in O" Brother Where Art Thou, Come on in boys the water's fine. Oops girls to.

ross3421
Jul 5th 2011, 08:26 PM
Are you saying Adam was first created a spiritual being consisting of both male and female Gen. 1:26-31 thru 2:1-4?

I am saying male and female were both created as "spirit beings" and called Adam on the 6th day.


Then after the seventh day passed God made the physical man instructed him about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and then removed the physical woman from him as his wife to be joined with him physically?

Yes. All the spirits were created from the beginning as they are everlasting as we are apart from the flesh. God created man in his image as a spirit after his likeness in chapter 1. In chapter 2 physical man was formed from what he had created (water, earth). When Adam was formed in chapter 2 then a soul/spirit was given which was created in chapter 1.

Again, this must be the case as physical man is on the earth in chapter 2 BEFORE the animals but in chapter 1 it is in reverse.


For uniformity (may be a bad choice of words) of the universe do they have to exist spiritually before there physical birth or has the process reversed because of sin. What is there progression of existence?

The spiritual man has to exist before the physical man. Physical is temporal, spiritual is everlasting.

percho
Jul 5th 2011, 09:29 PM
I am saying male and female were both created as "spirit beings" and called Adam on the 6th day.



Yes. All the spirits were created from the beginning as they are everlasting as we are apart from the flesh. God created man in his image as a spirit after his likeness in chapter 1. In chapter 2 physical man was formed from what he had created (water, earth). When Adam was formed in chapter 2 then a soul/spirit was given which was created in chapter 1.

Again, this must be the case as physical man is on the earth in chapter 2 BEFORE the animals but in chapter 1 it is in reverse.



The spiritual man has to exist before the physical man. Physical is temporal, spiritual is everlasting.

Well here is the problem that I see.

This is speaking of man. 1 Cor. 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

I also believe the key word here is afterward or in the literal On-thereafter. Thereafter what, afterward what? The whole chapter is speaking of the resurrection of beings. I say beings and not just bodies. And I also believe this verse applies to the the Word made flesh. a man, a living soul.

The first man Adam was made a living soul, the figure of him to come. As a living soul. The last Adam a quickening spirit and the next verse explains this as being after the resurrection.

Jesus was the firstborn from the dead. That is the first living soul that died and was resurrected as a spiritual being, the Word made flesh. And as Jesus told Nicodemus, Ye must be born again.

Verse 49: And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. After our resurrection/change.

Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:

Ta-An
Jul 6th 2011, 09:04 PM
God made both male and female and called THEM adam. When I keep that in mind when reading of Adam AND Eve it shows something.
Remember Man (Adam) was created in God's own image.... Thus he was created Perfect..... To split 'him'.... he was divided in male and female

nzyr
Jul 6th 2011, 09:41 PM
I am saying male and female were both created as "spirit beings" and called Adam on the 6th day.



Yes. All the spirits were created from the beginning as they are everlasting as we are apart from the flesh. God created man in his image as a spirit after his likeness in chapter 1. In chapter 2 physical man was formed from what he had created (water, earth). When Adam was formed in chapter 2 then a soul/spirit was given which was created in chapter 1.

Again, this must be the case as physical man is on the earth in chapter 2 BEFORE the animals but in chapter 1 it is in reverse.



The spiritual man has to exist before the physical man. Physical is temporal, spiritual is everlasting.

Man didn't exist until God made him a living soul on the sixth day. (Genesis 2:7)

MoreMercy
Jul 6th 2011, 10:36 PM
I am saying male and female were both created as "spirit beings" and called Adam on the 6th day.



Yes. All the spirits were created from the beginning as they are everlasting as we are apart from the flesh. God created man in his image as a spirit after his likeness in chapter 1. In chapter 2 physical man was formed from what he had created (water, earth). When Adam was formed in chapter 2 then a soul/spirit was given which was created in chapter 1.

Again, this must be the case as physical man is on the earth in chapter 2 BEFORE the animals but in chapter 1 it is in reverse.



The spiritual man has to exist before the physical man. Physical is temporal, spiritual is everlasting.
I see what you are saying now, and it does explain the contrast between Chapter 1's account and Chapter 2's account.
But, is that the whole of your evidence ?

I am open to the idea you share here but, I need something more to chew on before I see it jive with the rest of Father's words, in both the new and old testaments.


Father bless, and have mercy on all of us.

ross3421
Jul 7th 2011, 12:35 AM
I see what you are saying now, and it does explain the contrast between Chapter 1's account and Chapter 2's account.
But, is that the whole of your evidence ?

I am open to the idea you share here but, I need something more to chew on before I see it jive with the rest of Father's words, in both the new and old testaments.


Father bless, and have mercy on all of us.


I do have more but what are you looking for?

1. God created man in his image as a spirit being......?
2. Angels (spirits) indwell flesh to minister...?
3. Man is not born with a spirit but only when born again....?

ross3421
Jul 7th 2011, 12:36 AM
Man didn't exist until God made him a living soul on the sixth day. (Genesis 2:7)

If physical man is created on the 6th day and animals on the 5th then how come when physical man Adam is seen on the earth in chapter there are no animals yet?

MoreMercy
Jul 7th 2011, 01:47 AM
I do have more but what are you looking for?

1. God created man in his image as a spirit being......?
2. Angels (spirits) indwell flesh to minister...?
3. Man is not born with a spirit but only when born again....?

1 and 2, thank you.


Father bless, and have mercy on all of us.

percho
Jul 7th 2011, 05:09 AM
I do have more but what are you looking for?

1. God created man in his image as a spirit being......?
2. Angels (spirits) indwell flesh to minister...?
3. Man is not born with a spirit but only when born again....?


You still have to fit this in somewhere.

Well here is the problem that I see.

This is speaking of man. 1 Cor. 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

I also believe the key word here is afterward or in the literal On-thereafter. Thereafter what, afterward what? The whole chapter is speaking of the resurrection of beings. I say beings and not just bodies. And I also believe this verse applies to the the Word made flesh. a man, a living soul.

ross3421
Jul 7th 2011, 05:44 PM
You still have to fit this in somewhere.

Well here is the problem that I see.

This is speaking of man. 1 Cor. 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

I also believe the key word here is afterward or in the literal On-thereafter. Thereafter what, afterward what? The whole chapter is speaking of the resurrection of beings. I say beings and not just bodies. And I also believe this verse applies to the the Word made flesh. a man, a living soul.

I think 1 Cor. 15:46 supports the view that we were first spirit, flesh, then spirit again. "that was not first is spiritual"...... means that is was first spiritual but in the KJV presentation it is likened unto Shakespearean wording. Let's look at the passage.

Bare grain in the spirit, the wheat or other grain is the body.

1co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

God has given what a body? The bare grain (seed), the spirit is given a body.

1co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Now God speaks of types of bodies and it's glory.

1co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Now see the flip side once a spirit is also body then back again to spirit. What is sown in corruption, sown in dishonour, sown in weakness, sown in a natural body......the spirit.

1co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The we see the cycle, spirit then flesh, then back to spirit.

1co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

percho
Jul 8th 2011, 12:10 AM
I think 1 Cor. 15:46 supports the view that we were first spirit, flesh, then spirit again. "that was not first is spiritual"...... means that is was first spiritual but in the KJV presentation it is likened unto Shakespearean wording. Let's look at the passage.

Bare grain in the spirit, the wheat or other grain is the body.

1co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

God has given what a body? The bare grain (seed), the spirit is given a body.

1co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Now God speaks of types of bodies and it's glory.

1co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Now see the flip side once a spirit is also body then back again to spirit. What is sown in corruption, sown in dishonour, sown in weakness, sown in a natural body......the spirit.

1co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The we see the cycle, spirit then flesh, then back to spirit.

1co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The NIV has it as clear as it can get. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.

There is not anything about a man including the first man Adam that was spiritual before he was created or conceived. The only thing to do with spirit with Adam was when God breathed into him the breath of life. The spirit of life from God is what keeps any man alive. When that spirit of life departs the man dies. The blood of Jesus redeems man from death. God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to men and when they die they are said to be either dead in Christ or asleep in Jesus the same concept as being in Abraham's bosom and at Christ's coming the following will apply: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. The same thing as said here: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. And this is at the last trump.

ross3421
Jul 8th 2011, 04:17 AM
The NIV has it as clear as it can get. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.

There is not anything about a man including the first man Adam that was spiritual before he was created or conceived. The only thing to do with spirit with Adam was when God breathed into him the breath of life. The spirit of life from God is what keeps any man alive. When that spirit of life departs the man dies. The blood of Jesus redeems man from death. God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to men and when they die they are said to be either dead in Christ or asleep in Jesus the same concept as being in Abraham's bosom and at Christ's coming the following will apply: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. The same thing as said here: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. And this is at the last trump.

Was Christ himself not spiritual before the flesh? If we are created in his image and likeness why cannot we see the spiritual first?

Where does our spirit come from? Does God continue to create "spirits" daily?. Rather the flesh is formed daily but our spirit existed from the foundation of the world.


Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

ross3421
Jul 8th 2011, 04:57 AM
The NIV has it as clear as it can get.

I do not subscribe to this translation.


There is not anything about a man including the first man Adam that was spiritual before he was created or conceived.

The title of the thread........ male AND female were called Adam in the day the heavens were created. This is only possible if they were spirit beings first.

BroRog
Jul 8th 2011, 02:30 PM
I do not subscribe to this translation.



The title of the thread........ male AND female were called Adam in the day the heavens were created. This is only possible if they were spirit beings first.I don't think this follows. In our idiom we say that Jack and Jill are both human, and by this we don't mean they were spirits.

percho
Jul 9th 2011, 02:16 AM
Was Christ himself not spiritual before the flesh? If we are created in his image and likeness why cannot we see the spiritual first?

Where does our spirit come from? Does God continue to create "spirits" daily?. Rather the flesh is formed daily but our spirit existed from the foundation of the world.


Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honor, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: (That was the first man Adam) Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing [that is] not put under him. (That was never true of the first man Adam, as the following confirms) But now we see not yet all things put under him. (MAN that is.)

(Christ Jesus was the one of which was said,) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. (And) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (At that time he was spirit, with eternal life and glory that could only be in one with life that was in himself.)

(KJV) But made himself of no reputation (RSV) but emptied himself (YLT) but did empty himself. (What all did this emptying and or no reputation entail relative life, spirit, glory see Gal. 1:1 John 5:21, 26 and John 17:5? Considering the time stated for this promise being made Who, was making this promise to Whom?) Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
And the Word was made flesh, This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death (The Word of God became a man. I ask again, of what did he empty himself?) (It is stated in Romans the first Adam was the figure of him to come. The Word made flesh Jesus was a living soul just as the first man Adam. The last Adam a quickening spirit 1 C 15:45 and the next verse 46 states this quickening spirit, spiritual is afterward, after the resurrection. Anyone who is in Christ after being resurrected at the coming of Christ will be a new kind of man in the image of the risen man Jesus who was the Word that had been made flesh.) Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. (This statement occurs three times in the NT and once in the OT and is relative to the resurrection.) (And his resurrection also I believe relative to the following) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all he might have the preeminence. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (In him is a new creation of man in the image of the invisible God)