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Diggindeeper
Jul 1st 2011, 11:07 PM
I know that hospitals and groups of hospitals are sold all the time. But what shocked me is that these area hospitals have been sold. But this, to me, is quite disturbing! The 'deal' must be approved by...THE VATICAN~

One of these hospitals is the one we use because our doctor is on staff and he has been our doctor for probably 20 or 25 years and we like our doctor. This means, I assume, that when we (meaning our family, since some of our children and my husband and myself use the same doctor), but does this mean that when we paid the hospital bill that the Vatican was getting a share of the profits??

I mean, I know my hospital is called a 'Mercy' hospital and is under the same umbrella as these other catholic hospitals mentioned below. But the sale must be approved by the Vatican? Makes me wonder just how much the vatican is involved in other areas of my life, without me knowing it!

Quite frankly, I'm glad it will be a 'for profit' hospital. But it bothers me that the vatican will get who knows how much of the $525 million of the sale price.

I don't like supporting the Vatican! The catholic institution, it seems to me, is a 'for profit' church.

HMA to acquire Mercy for $525M Knoxville News Sentinel

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2011/jul/01/hma-acquire-mercy-525m/?partner=newsletter_headlinesFrom this link

http://media.knoxnews.com/corp_assets/asphalt/_sites/kns/img/header_print.gif

HMA to acquire Mercy for $525M Staff Reports

Friday, July 1, 2011

Health Management Associates announced this morning that it has entered into a definitive agreement to acquire Mercy Health Partners for $525 million.

The deal, which is subject to review by various authorities including the Vatican, is expected to be completed by Oct. 1.

Under the agreement, HMA is expected to acquire or lease all seven of Mercy's
hospitals.
The hospitals included in the transaction are: 401-bed Mercy Medical Center St. Mary's in Knoxville; 101-bed Mercy Medical Center West in Knoxville; 108-bed Mercy Medical

Center North in Powell; 58-bed St. Mary's Jefferson Memorial Hospital in Jefferson City; 74-bed Baptist Hospital of Cocke County in Newport; 66-bed St. Mary's Medical Center of Campbell County in LaFollette; and 25-bed St. Mary's Medical Center of Scott County in Oneida.

Read the full story at the HealthBiz blog. (http://blogs.knoxnews.com/healthbiz/2011/07/hma-to-acquire-mercy-for-525m.html)

Cornflake
Jul 2nd 2011, 01:38 AM
If they're Catholic hospitals, I'd expect that. The Vatican/the RCC owns an insane amount of property and real estate worldwide. Think about the land churches are on, schools, etc., etc., etc. Nevermind the art, artifacts, precious metals, jewels, etc. Five hundred million is a wee drop in the bucket to the RCC.

Diggindeeper
Jul 2nd 2011, 01:54 AM
I know you're probably right. But it just shocked me that a real estate sale in the Tennessee Valley would need the approval from the Vatican before closing the deal!

This was an eye opener to me. Here I am smack in the middle of 'hillbilly country' and to find out the Vatican has holdings here outside catholic churches and schools...well...

I've reached the conclusion that what China does not own in America, then the Vatican may own the remainder! I guess from now on, I'll feel we are owned either by China or the Vatican!

I hate not knowing where my hard earned money is going!

amazzin
Jul 2nd 2011, 01:57 AM
I'd tell them both to pound sand....just saying

Cornflake
Jul 2nd 2011, 02:02 AM
I know you're probably right. But it just shocked me that a real estate sale in the Tennessee Valley would need the approval from the Vatican before closing the deal!

This was an eye opener to me. Here I am smack in the middle of 'hillbilly country' and to find out the Vatican has holdings here outside catholic churches and schools...well...

I've reached the conclusion that what China does not own in America, then the Vatican may own the remainder! I guess from now on, I'll feel we are owned either by China or the Vatican!

I hate not knowing where my hard earned money is going!

Same for the Catholic churches and schools in your area. Or, maybe I shouldn't mention, it'll just make it more irksome. :lol: Sorry.

Think of it this way - at least when the hospitals were Catholic they weren't performing abortions. The RCC may have some issues but they're not completely bereft of anything good. Catholic schools are also usually tops education-wise. In my area, there were always kids of all religions in the Catholic schools, just for the superior education.

howszat
Jul 2nd 2011, 03:02 AM
I don't like supporting the Vatican! The catholic institution, it seems to me, is a 'for profit' church.

Much of down town Manhattan is owned by Trinity Church which is situated near Wall Street. Because the church owns the land, most of those multi-billion dollar industries do not pay property or local taxes. This is the same in most cities and is certainly true of the Evangelical mega-churches.

The Mighty Sword
Jul 2nd 2011, 01:13 PM
The vatican??? great, now one must say 10 hail mary's before treatment lest purgatory become mandatory, just saying.

ProjectPeter
Jul 2nd 2011, 02:26 PM
Yeah... Catholic churches and hospitals etc... sort of like embassy grounds. They are Catholic therefore in control of the Vatican.

I will say this too just on the side of fairness. For those that have no insurance and yet something major league happens to you... then you'll be very fortunate to have a Catholic hospital nearby. They will treat you and do so with the same zeal as if you were a billionaire with tons of money to give them and that's something I think merits being said. At the end of the day, when they are done... they will work with you on payment even if it is just a silly, small amount that you can afford. As well... much of the bill they will simply write-off so your amount isn't insane. So while it might seem odd... at least when they call it Mercy Hospital... they do at least practice what they call it. It's a bad hit for a community when they lose a Catholic hospital because of that reason. Also goes to show you the state of the Catholic Church in regard to money. They are selling a lot of stuff here and elsewhere in the world because of lack of funds. That's not just a Catholic problem either... many Churches are now feeling the pinch and the pinch is pinching hard.

quiet dove
Jul 2nd 2011, 02:34 PM
Same thing is happening, so we were told by nurses anyway, with St Joseph in the Atlanta area, not sure as I have not seen anything more about it, but possibly being purchased by the Mormon church. But now I don't have anymore info.

HisLeast
Jul 2nd 2011, 02:55 PM
If the Vatican is a part owner in the venture, why SHOULDN'T they have to approve the sale? Wouldn't you want to approve the sale of your own assets?

If its run anything like Alexian Brothers Medical Group, it will be a sad loss to your community when that place turns into a for-profit operation. Out here in Chicago, the executives of the hospital are actual Alexian Brothers. They get paid squat, walk around in old robes with rope belts, and they bust their humps to provide the maximum amount of care on a not-for-profit purse strings. Yet even though these men aren't raking in cash like their secular peers, they are beloved by their staff, and their hospitals rank very high for quality of care. There's absolutely nothing in it for these guys except the knowledge that they're helping the sick, just like God told them to.

You want to trade not-for-profit care run by men who fear God, for a group of profiteers AND you don't want the Vatican having any say in who they sell their own assets to?

Talk about putting prejudices above reason.

ProjectPeter
Jul 2nd 2011, 02:59 PM
If the Vatican is a part owner in the venture, why SHOULDN'T they have to approve the sale? Wouldn't you want to approve the sale of your own assets?

If its run anything like Alexian Brothers Medical Group, it will be a sad loss to your community when that place turns into a for-profit operation. Out here in Chicago, the executives of the hospital are actual Alexian Brothers. They get paid squat, walk around in old robes with rope belts, and they bust their humps to provide the maximum amount of care on a not-for-profit purse strings. Yet even though these men aren't raking in cash like their secular peers, they are beloved by their staff, and their hospitals rank very high for quality of care. There's absolutely nothing in it for these guys except the knowledge that they're helping the sick, just like God told them to.

You want to trade not-for-profit care run by men who fear God, for a group of profiteers AND you don't want the Vatican having any say in who they sell their own assets to?

Talk about putting prejudices above reason.I don't think she was rallying for someone buying it. Just curious as to the Vatican approval thing.

HisLeast
Jul 2nd 2011, 03:03 PM
The vatican??? great, now one must say 10 hail mary's before treatment lest purgatory become mandatory, just saying.

The Vatican is the current stakeholder and now its being sold to a for-profit group. So now you'll have to pay out the nose for your treatment, rather than "say 10 hail mary's".

Which is really interesting, because I don't know of a single Catholic NFP hospital that requires its patients to submit to a creed before treatment. Am I just not looking hard enough, or is this one more instance of "I hate Catholics therefore I am justified in providing false testimony"?

HisLeast
Jul 2nd 2011, 03:04 PM
I don't think she was rallying for someone buying it. Just curious as to the Vatican approval thing.


Quite frankly, I'm glad it will be a 'for profit' hospital. But it bothers me that the vatican will get who knows how much of the $525 million of the sale price.

Was that a typo?

ProjectPeter
Jul 2nd 2011, 04:26 PM
Was that a typo?Probably not... just didn't see that part. :) And yeah... folks that don't have insurance or poor insurance won't be so happy... no doubt.

RevLogos
Jul 2nd 2011, 04:37 PM
I don't like supporting the Vatican! The catholic institution, it seems to me, is a 'for profit' church.

Much of down town Manhattan is owned by Trinity Church which is situated near Wall Street. Because the church owns the land, most of those multi-billion dollar industries do not pay property or local taxes. This is the same in most cities and is certainly true of the Evangelical mega-churches.

Not sure I understand why the problem. Building hospitals to care for the sick is well within what Christians should be doing. We've been doing it for ages. Is it just because its Catholic? Would you have the same problem if it were a Methodist hospital?

Diggindeeper
Jul 2nd 2011, 06:01 PM
If it were to merely 'catholics', that I could understand.

My problem is that the money is going to the VATICAN. For example, we have Methodist hospitals, Baptist hospitals. But I've never heard that THEY (those denominations) own the land and the buildings.

I am saying that that little 'state' called the Vatican is like an octopus with far reaching tentacles that reach ALL over the world, as in certain real estate holdings. I probably could be more understanding if say the money went to fund ministries or even scholarship grants, etc.

But isn't the 'Vatican' a separate state or nation? And is the Vatican''s money obtained here and sent to them taxed? If Baptist hospitals were sold (or Methodist hospitals, etc.) its not like any other nation or state has to approve the sale. Is it?

ProjectPeter
Jul 2nd 2011, 06:07 PM
If it were to merely 'catholics', that I could understand.

My problem is that the money is going to the VATICAN. For example, we have Methodist hospitals, Baptist hospitals. But I've never heard that THEY (those denominations) own the land and the buildings.

I am saying that that little 'state' called the Vatican is like an octopus with far reaching tentacles that reach ALL over the world, as in certain real estate holdings. I probably could be more understanding if say the money went to fund ministries or even scholarship grants, etc.

But isn't the 'Vatican' a separate state or nation? And is the Vatican''s money obtained here and sent to them taxed? If Baptist hospitals were sold (or Methodist hospitals, etc.) its not like any other nation or state has to approve the sale. Is it?They do own the buildings actually... or at least in part. The Vatican is different though because they are a foreign power and thus afforded the status of a nation or a country. So they get that privilege that most religions don't get. The right or wrong of that can certainly be argued... but it's been that way for a number of years now.

HisLeast
Jul 2nd 2011, 06:17 PM
If it were to merely 'catholics', that I could understand.

My problem is that the money is going to the VATICAN. For example, we have Methodist hospitals, Baptist hospitals. But I've never heard that THEY (those denominations) own the land and the buildings.

I am saying that that little 'state' called the Vatican is like an octopus with far reaching tentacles that reach ALL over the world, as in certain real estate holdings. I probably could be more understanding if say the money went to fund ministries or even scholarship grants, etc.

But isn't the 'Vatican' a separate state or nation? And is the Vatican''s money obtained here and sent to them taxed? If Baptist hospitals were sold (or Methodist hospitals, etc.) its not like any other nation or state has to approve the sale. Is it?

You can bet all your red pennies and all of mine too that if a sovereign wealth fund placed hundreds of millions of dollars into a charitable hospital, then they too would want to approve who they sold their own assets to.

The reason the Vatican is involved is that the Vatican supplied much of the capital in the first place. Its partly their asset. If it bothers you that the Vatican will receive compensation for the sale of its own capital then take pleasure in this fact. Since Mercy Health Partners is a NotForProfit organization, the RCC has probably laid out substantially more money over the years to run it than it will receive from its sale or lease. I guess its all good so long as the Catholics come out on the bottom, right?

Except in this case the only people who will suffer is the people who depended on the charity.

slightlypuzzled
Jul 2nd 2011, 06:35 PM
Let's keep the discussion nice and Christ like....thanks...

HisLeast
Jul 2nd 2011, 07:09 PM
False testimony against the rcc ??? how dare you!!!

How dare I what? Identify false testimony for what it is?

Here's what you wrote TMS:


The vatican??? great, now one must say 10 hail mary's before treatment lest purgatory become mandatory, just saying.

So if that isn't a false testimony then please point me toward a charitable Catholic hospital that forces adherence to a creed before medical service is provisioned.

shepherdsword
Jul 2nd 2011, 07:34 PM
You can bet all your red pennies and all of mine too that if a sovereign wealth fund placed hundreds of millions of dollars into a charitable hospital, then they too would want to approve who they sold their own assets to.

The reason the Vatican is involved is that the Vatican supplied much of the capital in the first place. Its partly their asset. If it bothers you that the Vatican will receive compensation for the sale of its own capital then take pleasure in this fact. Since Mercy Health Partners is a NotForProfit organization, the RCC has probably laid out substantially more money over the years to run it than it will receive from its sale or lease. I guess its all good so long as the Catholics come out on the bottom, right?

Except in this case the only people who will suffer is the people who depended on the charity.

I used to support the workstations and servers in all the HMA hospitals while working for a third party emergency room software company. Our software ran on their stations and servers and about 80% of the support was left up to us,even though we were an outside vendor.:mad: I worked closely with the physicians and nurses.
Let me tell you...I think Mercy was better off with the RCC :cool:

Cornflake
Jul 2nd 2011, 07:44 PM
If it were to merely 'catholics', that I could understand.

My problem is that the money is going to the VATICAN. For example, we have Methodist hospitals, Baptist hospitals. But I've never heard that THEY (those denominations) own the land and the buildings.

I am saying that that little 'state' called the Vatican is like an octopus with far reaching tentacles that reach ALL over the world, as in certain real estate holdings. I probably could be more understanding if say the money went to fund ministries or even scholarship grants, etc.
The Vatican is the head of the RCC - the money from this stuff does go to fund ministries, schools (which all have substantial scholarship grants - in my area, good private schools run in the tens of thousands of dollars a year, Catholic schools are like a tenth of that and give out lots of scholarship money), hospital services, etc., etc.

If there's a Methodist hospital, I'd assume it was owned by the Methodist church, though I could be wrong. Same deal, just there are far more Catholics than Methodists and the RCC has been around a lot longer and owns more stuff.

ProjectPeter
Jul 2nd 2011, 09:33 PM
Mighty Sword... in as few words as possible. KNOCK IT OFF already.

howszat
Jul 2nd 2011, 10:56 PM
Not sure I understand why the problem. Building hospitals to care for the sick is well within what Christians should be doing. We've been doing it for ages. Is it just because its Catholic? Would you have the same problem if it were a Methodist hospital?

In Brooklyn, NY where I lived for so many years New York Methodist Hospital of Park Slope has a sterling reputation for treatment of the sick, for teaching new medics, and for having an excellent public reputation. I'm sure we can all agree that churches can and should use their tax free status to advance science and the treatment of the poor. However, institutions such as Trinity Church should not be allowed to be a safe harbor or tax free zone for billionaires who should have to pay their share of taxes just like you and I.