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Rullion Green
Jul 29th 2011, 10:49 AM
Is the purpose of parables to help people understand or prevent them from understanding ?

"'Keep on hearing, but do not understand;keep on seeing, but do not perceive.
'Make the heart of this people dull,
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed." Isaiah 6:8

are parables a sign of Judgment ?

Fenris
Jul 29th 2011, 10:57 AM
Is the purpose of parables to help people understand or prevent them from understanding ?So God bases everything on what one believes and then intentionally muddies the waters? :hmm:

Slug1
Jul 29th 2011, 11:00 AM
Seems that it matters who the "people" in question are.

That Isaiah scripture is reemphasized in Matthew 13:10-17, when Jesus explains the purpose of the parables.

rejoice44
Jul 29th 2011, 11:05 AM
So God bases everything on what one believes and then intentionally muddies the waters? :hmm:

Parables are for seekers of truth. If you seek with a meek and contrite spirit God reveals the truth. Those whose hubris stands in the way will not understand.

Fenris
Jul 29th 2011, 11:10 AM
Parables are for seekers of truth. If you seek with a meek and contrite spirit God reveals the truth. Those whose hubris stands in the way will not understand.So only those who believe exactly as you do are 'meek'. Gotya. :thumbsup:

Rullion Green
Jul 29th 2011, 11:19 AM
So God bases everything on what one believes and then intentionally muddies the waters? :hmm:

I dont understand what you mean ? is it a parable ?

rejoice44
Jul 29th 2011, 11:21 AM
So only those who believe exactly as you do are 'meek'. Gotya. :thumbsup:

Thinking that your own right hand can save you is not meekness. When you rely on the mercy of God and his righteousness you have obtained contriteness.

Fenris
Jul 29th 2011, 11:22 AM
I dont understand what you mean ? is it a parable ?Why would God make the bible more difficult to understand? What's the point? To send even more of humanity to hell forever?

Fenris
Jul 29th 2011, 11:24 AM
Thinking that your own right hand can save you is not meekness. When you rely on the mercy of God and his righteousness you have obtained contriteness.I've got an even better idea. Why not try to do what God told us to do, and then rely on his mercy when you fall short. :idea:

Rullion Green
Jul 29th 2011, 11:24 AM
Seems that it matters who the "people" in question are.

That Isaiah scripture is reemphasized in Matthew 13:10-17, when Jesus explains the purpose of the parables.

Good point, Nathan spoke to David in a parable after the "incident" it seems to me anyway that they are used to either shock and awaken people or sedate them, as you say it depends on the person. I know i can rationalize away my sins with ease and it may take a shock to get me to see them for what they are.

Rullion Green
Jul 29th 2011, 11:27 AM
Why would God make the bible more difficult to understand? What's the point? To send even more of humanity to hell forever?

I think we have a duty to respond to God and if we dont respond properly like Pharaoh then our hearts get hardened by God eventually ? what do you say.

Slug1
Jul 29th 2011, 11:30 AM
Good point, Nathan spoke to David in a parable after the "incident" it seems to me anyway that they are used to either shock and awaken people or sedate them, as you say it depends on the person. I know i can rationalize away my sins with ease and it may take a shock to get me to see them for what they are.I feel its more about what Jesus actually stated and that is to allow some to hear the message of a parable and some not to hear the message of a parable.

v11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

In this single verse we can understand that the message is both revealed and hidden based on who the person is.

The Isaiah scripture is prophecy about parables and in using them, Jesus fulfilled that prophecy.

Nathan spoke as the Lord said... prophecy (for correction in this case), he didn't speak in a parable at all. The Lord's words were direct.

rejoice44
Jul 29th 2011, 11:30 AM
I've got an even better idea. Why not try to do what God told us to do, and then rely on his mercy when you fall short. :idea:

Never said we are not to be obedient. The problem is we always fall short and cannot attain unto the righteousness that is required to be allowed into the Kingdom of Heaven. We can't afford to be judged on our own righteousness. David asked God for mercy and not judgment.

Rullion Green
Jul 29th 2011, 11:33 AM
I feel its more about what Jesus actually stated and that is to allow some to hear the message of a parable and some not to hear the message of a parable.

v11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

In this single verse we can understand that the message is both revealed and hidden based on who the person is.

The Isaiah scripture is prophecy about parables and in using them, Jesus fulfilled that prophecy.

So did Jesus speak in parables to keep people from understanding ?

Fenris
Jul 29th 2011, 11:33 AM
I think we have a duty to respond to God and if we dont respond properly like Pharaoh then our hearts get hardened by God eventually ? what do you say.I would say that Pharaoh was an exceptional case. He enslaved millions of people and when God performed miracles that even his sorcerers said "were the hand of God", he still did not relent of his wicked ways. To compare him to a run of the mill person just struggling to get through daily life is just plain heartless.

So no, I don't see why God would intentionally make it even more difficult to do the right thing or believe the right thing. Not enough people already going to hell? Must make the road even narrower? And God is a God of love?

Slug1
Jul 29th 2011, 11:34 AM
So did Jesus speak in parables to keep people from understanding ?Yes... did you read the Matthew scripture yet? It's very specific.

I edited that last post I did!

Fenris
Jul 29th 2011, 11:36 AM
Never said we are not to be obedient. The problem is we always fall short and cannot attain unto the righteousness that is required to be allowed into the Kingdom of Heaven. We can't afford to be judged on our own righteousness.God made the test. Can't He grade us according to our own capabilities and not His?


David asked God for mercy and not judgment.Yup. In a poem. And in another poem he writes that in keeping the law "there is great reward." Let's ignore that one. Shh!

Fenris
Jul 29th 2011, 11:37 AM
Maybe I need to take some time off again.

Rullion Green
Jul 29th 2011, 11:39 AM
Yes... did you read the Matthew scripture yet? It's very specific.

I edited that last post I did!

Ok thanks for your input.

rejoice44
Jul 29th 2011, 11:48 AM
Maybe I need to take some time off again.

I will leave you alone. This is a Christian Bible Forum and you can't expect us to put aside our Christian teaching from the Bible.

Redeemed by Grace
Jul 29th 2011, 11:55 AM
Is the purpose of parables to help people understand or prevent them from understanding ?

"'Keep on hearing, but do not understand;keep on seeing, but do not perceive.
'Make the heart of this people dull,
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed." Isaiah 6:8

are parables a sign of Judgment ?

To filter. The Gospel is wide open, preach it openly for everyone to hear it.......... Then Salvation is like membership, only those who have faith in Jesus Christ are saved.... Those who truly need to be saved will have the key to enter and go through the door. The Pharisees were not permitted salvation as well as others, for Jesus is the door and the key giver to the door.

Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" 11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

John 2:23 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name, observing His signs which He was doing. 24 But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men, 25 and because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man.

For His Glory...

keck553
Jul 29th 2011, 03:22 PM
I've got an even better idea. Why not try to do what God told us to do, and then rely on his mercy when you fall short. :idea:

For some, that would require more than a thought or a feeling. For some love, faith, obedience and belief are nouns, not verbs.

notuptome
Jul 30th 2011, 12:24 PM
Good teachers know that good students will learn when they are challenged to think. Parables require meditation and thinking to understand them. The Holy Spirit reveals the great truth of the parables which only born again Christians can receive. 1 Cor 2:14

God loves all men and gives all men the opportunity to come to repentance. Men turn away from Gods offer because they see themselves as righteous which really is they love themselves and their sin more than anything else. John 3:16-21

For the cause of Christ
Roger

BroRog
Jul 30th 2011, 05:18 PM
Is the purpose of parables to help people understand or prevent them from understanding ?

"'Keep on hearing, but do not understand;keep on seeing, but do not perceive.
'Make the heart of this people dull,
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed." Isaiah 6:8

are parables a sign of Judgment ?Both, the parables are cleverly constructed to hide the truth from those who don't want to know the truth and to reveal the truth to those who do want to know it. The parables are designed to teach by analogy. Jesus first tells a story and then he invites the hearer/reader to find the analog. Sometimes he will give the analog himself, as in the parable of the sower, but often times he leaves it to his disciples to work out the analog for themselves. The process of working out the analog is itself beneficial and helps the disciple "own" the truth for himself or herself.

Bandit
Jul 30th 2011, 06:23 PM
Is the purpose of parables to help people understand or prevent them from understanding ?

"'Keep on hearing, but do not understand;keep on seeing, but do not perceive.
'Make the heart of this people dull,
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed." Isaiah 6:8

are parables a sign of Judgment ?

Parables contain godly truth, but this truth is hidden within the parable (not on the surface, so to speak). A parable is meant to convey wisdom, but only those willing to dig and uncover its meaning will find it. Those unwilling to dig for God's truths are not worthy of them; those who are willing to dig will not be disappointed. So, by giving wisdom in parable form, God gives to each what they deserve.