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LookingUp
Aug 7th 2011, 12:16 AM
You (those who know the Bible) are not saved if you reject (mark all that apply):

Trinity (One God, three Persons)
Jesus is Yahweh Elohim (i.e. God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob)
Jesus is 100% man and 100% God
Jesus is Elohim (God, but not Yahweh)
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the one true God

If you can, please give Scripture(s) for your choice.

This is for one who knows all the information in the Bible and then comes to their own conclusion about what to reject and what to accept.

Desperaux
Aug 7th 2011, 12:47 AM
People are saved every day without the full knowledge of who God or Jesus is. That comes later, through discipleship, and assimilation into the Body.

LookingUp
Aug 7th 2011, 01:00 AM
People are saved every day without the full knowledge of who God or Jesus is. That comes later, through discipleship, and assimilation into the Body.I wrote "those who know the Bible" to show that this question is for the one who has all the information and then rejects whatever and only accepts whatever. What would your response then be?

Desperaux
Aug 7th 2011, 02:09 AM
I wrote "those who know the Bible" to show that this question is for the one who has all the information and then rejects whatever and only accepts whatever. What would your response then be?

OK, I see!

Well, I voted only that those who reject Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God cannot be genuinely saved. The Anointed One has come to die in our stead for sin. Without that understanding and appreciation which one can only come to by the conviction of Holy Spirit, one would not come to true repentance. Salvation would be dubious.

All the other rejections in the poll are simply things that someone who is not listening to the Lord would embrace. They could be saved, but they are not knowledgeable about God or His word. Self-taught, confused, perpetual babes.

LookingUp
Aug 7th 2011, 02:26 AM
OK, I see!

Well, I voted only that those who reject Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God cannot be genuinely saved. The Anointed One has come to die in our stead for sin. Without that understanding and appreciation which one can only come to by the conviction of Holy Spirit, one would not come to true repentance. Salvation would be dubious.

All the other rejections in the poll are simply things that someone who is not listening to the Lord would embrace. They could be saved, but they are not knowledgeable about God or His word. Self-taught, confused, perpetual babes.Thanks for your honesty. So, if I come to the conclusion that Jesus is the only begotten God yet he is not Yahweh, would you conclude I am confused and/or just not informed well enough yet?

Why do you think that although the conviction of the Holy Spirit has taken place and they have realized that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of living God, that this person would not--after years of study and prayer--come to the conclusion that Jesus is Yahweh?

LookingUp
Aug 7th 2011, 02:28 AM
shepherdsword,

I would love to hear why you are not sure. And thank you for your vote.

shepherdsword
Aug 7th 2011, 02:28 AM
If you reject Christ with a full knowledge of what he did for you then you cannot be saved. We are responsible for what has been revealed to us. We are not responsible for what has not been revealed to us. We sometimes adopt the leaven of the Pharisees which is having a form of doctrinal correctness and yet being hypocrites that do not do the will of God.Jesus told a story about a man who was bleeding and dying on the jerico road. The priest that had all the revelation about God passed him by. The Pharisee that had all of the doctrine and biblical understanding passed him by. The guy that had the false religion,the unclean Samaritan,was the one who had compassion on the victim and did the will of God.

I suspect we will undergo a similar scrutiny by Jesus on the day of judgment and our destiny will not be determined by a theology test. As for me,I want to get this prideful arrogant attitude out of my life and begin to love people.

LookingUp
Aug 7th 2011, 02:31 AM
If you reject Christ with a full knowledge of what he did for you then you cannot be saved. We are responsible for what has been revealed to us. We are not responsible for what has not been revealed to us. We sometimes adopt the leaven of the Pharisees which is having a form of doctrinal correctness and yet being hypocrites that do not do the will of God.Jesus told a story about a man who was bleeding and dying on the jerico road. The priest that had all the revelation about God passed him by. The Pharisee that had all of the doctrine and biblical understanding passed him by. The guy that had the false religion,the unclean Samaritan,was the one who had compassion on the victim and did the will of God.

I suspect we will undergo a similar scrutiny by Jesus on the day of judgment and our destiny will not be determined by a theology test. As for me,I want to get this prideful arrogant attitude out of my life and begin to love people.wow...you've made me cry. thank you. thank you for reminding me. thank you so much.

Desperaux
Aug 7th 2011, 03:20 AM
Thanks for your honesty. So, if I come to the conclusion that Jesus is the only begotten God yet he is not Yahweh, would you conclude I am confused and/or just not informed well enough yet?

Why do you think that although the conviction of the Holy Spirit has taken place and they have realized that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of living God, that this person would not--after years of study and prayer--come to the conclusion that Jesus is Yahweh?

They should come to that conclusion. So, if a long standing so-called believer continues in denial , they are embracing ignorance and their growth is impeded. Their reward will be less than those who embrace the revelation of the word of God and walk in the freedom of that, growing in Grace and developing good fruit, and being a benefit to the kingdom of God. Instead, these folk are like the weak soldiers in a battle, causing the strong to have to carry their added load.

-SEEKING-
Aug 7th 2011, 03:22 AM
If you reject Christ with a full knowledge of what he did for you then you cannot be saved. We are responsible for what has been revealed to us. We are not responsible for what has not been revealed to us. We sometimes adopt the leaven of the Pharisees which is having a form of doctrinal correctness and yet being hypocrites that do not do the will of God.Jesus told a story about a man who was bleeding and dying on the jerico road. The priest that had all the revelation about God passed him by. The Pharisee that had all of the doctrine and biblical understanding passed him by. The guy that had the false religion,the unclean Samaritan,was the one who had compassion on the victim and did the will of God.

I suspect we will undergo a similar scrutiny by Jesus on the day of judgment and our destiny will not be determined by a theology test. As for me,I want to get this prideful arrogant attitude out of my life and begin to love people.

This is a very well thought out and excellent post. I agree with you entirely. It's sad to know, and witness, the spirit of Pharisee-ism is still alive and well even now.

VerticalReality
Aug 7th 2011, 03:26 AM
Personally, I prefer to stay away from focusing on what a person shouldn't believe and focus more on what they should. There is a lot I don't know, but what I do know is that Jesus came in the flesh and died for my sin. I also know that He was raised from the dead, and because of this I also know that through faith in Him and what He did I can escape death and have life eternally. I believe God will reveal truth as we seek Him. People start getting into trouble when they attempt to form doctrine without the seeking God part.

LookingUp
Aug 7th 2011, 06:57 AM
They should come to that conclusion. So, if a long standing so-called believer continues in denial , they are embracing ignorance and their growth is impeded. Their reward will be less than those who embrace the revelation of the word of God and walk in the freedom of that, growing in Grace and developing good fruit, and being a benefit to the kingdom of God. Instead, these folk are like the weak soldiers in a battle, causing the strong to have to carry their added load.Why do you think they are embracing ignorance when they have studied for years, given up many other interests (which would have led to worldy things such as money and fame, for example) just to study and pray and come to know and understand God, continued to be devoted to the things of God and yet they still remain "ignorant"...why? How is it that this person is still embracing ignorance when they've given everything up just to have wisdom? Just to know the things of God? Why would God leave them in ignorance when their deepest desire is to know the truth?

Raybob
Aug 7th 2011, 07:34 AM
That was a trick question. I voted "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God" but later saw the option "Jesus is 100% man and 100% God." I believe one must believe both to be saved.

Butch5
Aug 7th 2011, 08:46 AM
You (those who know the Bible) are not saved if you reject (mark all that apply):

Trinity (One God, three Persons)
Jesus is Yahweh Elohim (i.e. God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob)
Jesus is 100% man and 100% God
Jesus is Elohim (God, but not Yahweh)
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the one true God

If you can, please give Scripture(s) for your choice.

This is for one who knows all the information in the Bible and then comes to their own conclusion about what to reject and what to accept.

Hi Julie,

Jesus Himself told us what was necessary to believe.

John 8:21-28(KJV)
21Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 8:51-59(KJV)
51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The reason they took up stones to kill Him was because by saying before Abraham was, I am, He was claiming to be God. I am is the name that God used when He told Moses to go and free the Israelites from Egypt.

Exodus 3:11-15(KJV)
11And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?
12And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
13And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Jesus also said that He would build His church on this foundation, “thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,” This statement is foundational to the Christian faith. In making this confession Peter was acknowledging that Jesus was the promised Messiah of the OT Scriptures. The Christ is a term that is used for the kings of Israel. Peter was acknowledging Jesus as the king, and not only that but was also acknowledging that Jesus was the Son of God. This is an acknowledgment of Psalm two.

Psalms 2:1-12(KJV)
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Psalm two speaks of the Christ as being both a King and the Son of God. David was promised that his seed would reign on his throne forever. Isaiah said that one person would sit on David’s throne and his kingdom would be everlasting.

Isaiah 9:5-7(KJV)
5For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

You also asked about Jesus being Yahweh, He is.

Genesis 19:24-25(KJV)
24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

This passages says the LORD (Yahweh) in heaven rained down fire and brimstone from the LORD (Yahweh) out of heaven. Jesus was the LORD on earth, the Father was the LORD in heaven.

It is essential to believe this? I’m not sure. It would seem that it is having heard Jesus statement, “unless you believe I am, you shall die in your sins”.
I think a big problem is that the gospel that is preached today is truncated. It is not what Jesus and the Apostles preached. Today people are told to believe that Jesus died for their sins and they will go to heaven. While it is true that Jesus died for sins, that is only a part of God's plan. Jesus and the apostles preached the kingdom of God, not Jesus died for you sins. Look at the Gospel that the apostles preached.

Acts 5:40-42(NKJV)
40And they agreed with him, and when they had called for the apostles and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
41So they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name.
42And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
Jesus is the Christ, that was Peters confession.

John 20:31(KJV)
31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

1 John 2:22(KJV)
22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:22(KJV)
22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

John says in his gospel, these things were written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ. John was writing in opposition to Gnostic teaching so his focus was on this point. However, notice where the authority is, “Jesus is the Christ” not Jesus died for your sins. John is making the same acknowledgement that Peter did.
Again, notice Jesus’ words and the woman’s response.

John 11:25-27(KJV)
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Here again we have the same statement that Peter gave. Notice, however, what Jesus said, we get a few words recorded here “I am the resurrection, and the life”, but there must have been more. Jesus must have spoken to her about the kingdom because this woman after hearing Jesus concludes that He is the Christ.

The Jews were expecting the Christ, this can be seen from many passages.

Matthew 26:63(KJV)
63But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Luke 3:15(KJV)
15And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;

John 1:41(KJV)
41He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

John 4:27-30(KJV)
27And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?
28The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
30Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.

John 4:42(KJV)
42And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

John 7:41(KJV)
41Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?

John 10:24(KJV)
24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

These passages show the expectation among the Jews for the coming Christ. Notice the subject of the preaching, it is not Jesus died for your sins. Again, that is a part of God’s plan, however, is it not central focus of it.

Mark 1:14(KJV)
14Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Luke 4:43(KJV)
43And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

Here we have Jesus specifically stating that He was sent for the purpose of preaching the kingdom of God.

Luke 8:1(KJV)
1And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and showing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,

Luke 9:1-2(KJV)
1Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

Luke 9:10-11(KJV)
10And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.
11And the people, when they knew it, followed him: and he received them, and spake unto them of the kingdom of God, and healed them that had need of healing.

Luke 16:16(KJV)
16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Acts 1:1-3(KJV)
1The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3To whom also he showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

It should be clear from these passages that Jesus preached the kingdom of God, but what about the apostles. We’ve seen above that Jesus sent them out to preach the kingdom of God.

Phillip,

Acts 8:12(KJV)
12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Paul,

Acts 19:8(KJV)
8And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Acts 20:25(KJV)
25And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Acts 28:23(KJV)
23And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Acts 28:30-31(KJV)
30And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
31Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

So, even Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles preached the kingdom of God. If the church today preached the kingdom of God, there wouldn’t be any confusion about what to believe. Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, a confirmation that Jesus is the one spoken of in Psalm 2.

Rullion Green
Aug 7th 2011, 12:47 PM
Hi Lookingup I picked the second option but think there is more than one valid option.

My reasoning is this, it was Yahweh Who promised Abraham he would bless the Nations through Him Meaning the Gentiles would be blesses through his seed. So Yahweh is bound by His promise. It down to Yahweh to work out salvation for His people.....

Isaiah 43:11

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

This is not only a promise to the Jew but it's inclusive of the promise to Abraham to bless the nations including gentiles...There is no other Saviour than Yahweh, salvation is from Yahweh. So if Jesus is anything less than Yahweh then there is no salvation in him. Yahweh shares the title of Saviour with no one.

Hosea 13:4 "But I am the LORD your God, [who brought you] out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Savior except me.

Firstfruits
Aug 7th 2011, 02:56 PM
1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1 Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Firstfruits

Desperaux
Aug 7th 2011, 02:57 PM
Why do you think they are embracing ignorance when they have studied for years, given up many other interests (which would have led to worldy things such as money and fame, for example) just to study and pray and come to know and understand God, continued to be devoted to the things of God and yet they still remain "ignorant"...why? How is it that this person is still embracing ignorance when they've given everything up just to have wisdom? Just to know the things of God? Why would God leave them in ignorance when their deepest desire is to know the truth?

God doesn't LEAVE anyone ignorant. People are duped by the enemy. God uses all He can to wake a person up from their religious stupor. It is obvious that these people who are Christians, yet remain in ignorance, are content with what they have, and have no hunger for anything more. Fire insurance is what they have. Many churches are FULL of Christians like that.

Raybob
Aug 7th 2011, 04:17 PM
...Fire insurance is what they have. Many churches are FULL of Christians like that.I believe there's a big loophole in that insurance policy.:monkeyd:

LookingUp
Aug 7th 2011, 05:02 PM
That was a trick question. I voted "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God" but later saw the option "Jesus is 100% man and 100% God." I believe one must believe both to be saved.I'm sorry you missed that. I wanted you to "mark all that apply." Thanks for your vote! :-)

Rullion Green
Aug 7th 2011, 05:09 PM
"mark all that apply."

I think you only get to choose one option, at least i did. Just incase it has a bearing on your findings ?

LookingUp
Aug 7th 2011, 05:13 PM
God doesn't LEAVE anyone ignorant. People are duped by the enemy. God uses all He can to wake a person up from their religious stupor. It is obvious that these people who are Christians, yet remain in ignorance, are content with what they have, and have no hunger for anything more. Fire insurance is what they have. Many churches are FULL of Christians like that.That was my point. I'm talking about a person who continues to hunger for more; they are anything but content. They are driven by this unceasing desire to know the truth of who God is completely and fully, and although they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, they still find themselves doubting Jesus is Yahweh for a variety of biblical reasons they find convincing enough to hesitate in calling Jesus "Yahweh" except to the degree that we experience Yahweh fully when we experience Jesus.

Desperaux
Aug 7th 2011, 05:30 PM
That was my point. I'm talking about a person who continues to hunger for more; they are anything but content. They are driven by this unceasing desire to know the truth of who God is completely and fully, and although they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, they still find themselves doubting Jesus is Yahweh for a variety of biblical reasons they find convincing enough to hesitate in calling Jesus "Yahweh" except to the degree that we experience Yahweh fully when we experience Jesus.

Let me say this, also: Those who are seeking after God and know Him and are living His ways do not hunger or thirst, for God satisfies continually, as a river of living water flowing from within them.

When we see people striving like you suggest, there is something basic missing. My opinion is that they may have made a mental assent to Jesus, but they have not invited Him to move in. These are the tares among us. Tares look exactly like wheat, but the only way a farmer can determine a tare is at harvest time, when the wheat heads bow due to their hefty weight, and the tares refuse to bow their heads---they are lightweights.

LookingUp
Aug 7th 2011, 05:36 PM
Let me say this, also: Those who are seeking after God and know Him and are living His ways do not hunger or thirst, for God satisfies continually, as a river of living water flowing from within them.

When we see people striving like you suggest, there is something basic missing. My opinion is that they may have made a mental assent to Jesus, but they have not invited Him to move in. These are the tares among us. Tares look exactly like wheat, but the only way a farmer can determine a tare is at harvest time, when the wheat heads bow due to their hefty weight, and the tares refuse to bow their heads---they are lightweights.I must say, then, that I'm completely confused by what you've written. First, you say they don't accept Jesus as Yahweh because they are content and don't hunger for more, and now you say they don't accept Jesus as Yahweh because they do hunger for more (i.e. since "God continually satisfies").

LookingUp
Aug 7th 2011, 05:37 PM
I think you only get to choose one option, at least i did. Just incase it has a bearing on your findings ?OK, thanks for letting me know.

Desperaux
Aug 7th 2011, 05:40 PM
I must say, then, that I'm completely confused by what you've written. First, you say they don't accept Jesus as Yahweh because they are content and don't hunger for more, and now you say they don't accept Jesus as Yahweh because they do hunger for more (i.e. since "God continually satisfies").

Huh?

People who lack faith are going to be continually hungry for God, and looking for His power in life in all the wrong places---church programs, good works, etc. They are content with that. I think we all know people like this---they think they have it all and need nothing more, but they are spiritually starving. These are the spiritually weak and the tares among us.

However, those who are continually walking in the Spirit are not hungry or thirsty, as God supplies all they need continually.

BroRog
Aug 7th 2011, 06:07 PM
I voted "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God", though I might have also voted for "other" as well, putting under "other" personal truths such as, "I am a sinner in need of grace." and issues such as this.

I think the Trinity Doctrine was the best Christian theologians could muster given the fact that they were hamstrung by a commitment to Greek Philosophical categories. Living in the 21st century, I am not committed to Greek ideas about how reality works, and as such, I don't feel obligated to think in terms of such categories.

episkopos
Aug 7th 2011, 06:44 PM
When the demons saw Jesus, they said....you are the son of God! Jesus then told these to be silent.

Being faithful in Christ is what saves you.

BroRog
Aug 7th 2011, 06:52 PM
When the demons saw Jesus, they said....you are the son of God! Jesus then told these to be silent.

Being faithful in Christ is what saves you.While I agree with what you said, the OP seeks to couch the question in terms of what we reject, not in terms of what we believe. I think these are two different ways of looking at the issue. If, for instance, we consider the father of our faith, Abraham, and ascertain what he believed, we must conclude that he did not know, and could not know, that it would be Jesus son of Joseph and Mary that would be the messiah. From this we can safely conclude that God doesn't expect us to understand the entire story of salvation in order to find favor with God.

Even in the NT we come to understand that Jesus was critical of those who rejected the truth, and not critical of those who didn't understand the truth. We are being judged, not based on what we know, but on what we reject.

episkopos
Aug 7th 2011, 07:04 PM
While I agree with what you said, the OP seeks to couch the question in terms of what we reject, not in terms of what we believe. I think these are two different ways of looking at the issue. If, for instance, we consider the father of our faith, Abraham, and ascertain what he believed, we must conclude that he did not know, and could not know, that it would be Jesus son of Joseph and Mary that would be the messiah. From this we can safely conclude that God doesn't expect us to understand the entire story of salvation in order to find favor with God.

Even in the NT we come to understand that Jesus was critical of those who rejected the truth, and not critical of those who didn't understand the truth. We are being judged, not based on what we know, but on what we reject.

OK, put in those terms, a rejecter of Jesus Christ is lost of course...if that person has truly rejected the real Jesus Christ, and not another's take on Him. But there is more to this than sentence structure. If we are not obedient to Christ, then are we not rejecting Him? Is it not possible to reject Christ in practice while still maintaining a belief in Him? Is it also not possible to reject a human notion of Jesus Christ and yet be closer to the truth for it?

The Mormons claim to be the church of Jesus Christ. Can we not safely reject this claim?

BroRog
Aug 7th 2011, 07:06 PM
OK, put in those terms, a rejecter of Jesus Christ is lost of course...if that person has truly rejected the real Jesus Christ, and not another's take on Him. But there is more to this than sentence structure. If we are not obedient to Christ, then are we not rejecting Him? Is it not possible to reject Christ in practice while still maintaining a belief in Him? Is it also not possible to reject a human notion of Jesus Christ and yet be closer to the truth for it?You raise a good point.

Jude
Aug 7th 2011, 11:04 PM
One of my favorite passages.... if you don't believe you won't be saved, unbelief in Gods Christ is the unpardonable sin.

John 8:51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The reason they took up stones to kill Him was because by saying before Abraham was, I am, He was claiming to be God. I am is the name that God used when He told Moses to go and free the Israelites from Egypt.

jpoole21
Aug 8th 2011, 01:45 AM
If you reject Christ with a full knowledge of what he did for you then you cannot be saved. We are responsible for what has been revealed to us. We are not responsible for what has not been revealed to us. We sometimes adopt the leaven of the Pharisees which is having a form of doctrinal correctness and yet being hypocrites that do not do the will of God.Jesus told a story about a man who was bleeding and dying on the jerico road. The priest that had all the revelation about God passed him by. The Pharisee that had all of the doctrine and biblical understanding passed him by. The guy that had the false religion,the unclean Samaritan,was the one who had compassion on the victim and did the will of God.

I suspect we will undergo a similar scrutiny by Jesus on the day of judgment and our destiny will not be determined by a theology test. As for me,I want to get this prideful arrogant attitude out of my life and begin to love people.

This might be the best post I've seen on this board in my short time here.

ScottJohnson
Aug 8th 2011, 02:52 AM
You (those who know the Bible) are not saved if you reject (mark all that apply):

Trinity (One God, three Persons)
Jesus is Yahweh Elohim (i.e. God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob)
Jesus is 100% man and 100% God
Jesus is Elohim (God, but not Yahweh)
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the one true God

If you can, please give Scripture(s) for your choice.

This is for one who knows all the information in the Bible and then comes to their own conclusion about what to reject and what to accept.
I picked the fifth choice, "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God", based on Matt 16:16.

It seems that our salvation begins with a confession of faith; "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God". Maybe I'm naive' but it would seem to me that the deity of the man Jesus, would be revealed through the Holy Spirit and through the Word. I don't see how adherence to any of the other choices would be essential for salvation.

Nihil Obstat
Aug 8th 2011, 05:05 AM
I voted "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God", though I might have also voted for "other" as well, putting under "other" personal truths such as, "I am a sinner in need of grace." and issues such as this.

I think the Trinity Doctrine was the best Christian theologians could muster given the fact that they were hamstrung by a commitment to Greek Philosophical categories. Living in the 21st century, I am not committed to Greek ideas about how reality works, and as such, I don't feel obligated to think in terms of such categories.

You touched something that I wanted to explore for a minute. These fourth century theologians did more than attempt to understand the NT's claims about Jesus while committed to Greek Philosophy, but they also did their best to convey Christology and Pneumatology to a church who was just as committed (albeit sloppier) to such beliefs, and the creed was in many ways reactionary to negative things that were not going on during the first century. I think that Jesus / Paul / et al. were doing much the same. That is, I think Jesus, for instance, was doing the best possible at explaining His identity and relationship with God to a people who only knew so much, and who were going through certain trials that later generations would never experience. For a group of fourth century Greek thinking scholars, well intentioned as they might have been, to try to speak of Jesus' relationship with the Father as "begotten" but "not made", when Jesus was sent to call the wayward sons of Israel back to the One who begot them in the wilderness before He turned against them in judgment through Rome, all seems a bit disjointed. Know what I mean?

keck553
Aug 8th 2011, 03:44 PM
Lookup up, I'm sorry, I can't vote on this poll. I know my Master, Who He is, and my hope is that my brothers and sisters know Him as I do, but He Himself said His Word is life to some and death to others. It's out of my jurisdiction to judge anyone's eternal condition; the thief on the cross was headed for hell up to the last moment of his life, so I'm not going to go there.

The Eternal One alone saves, not opinion polls, not some righteous human being, not the church, not Israel. Yeshua has to be echad (Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad) with YHVH or He's finite and can not save.

This is what God is pleased to give me to stand on, and I can not be moved.

Realist1981
Aug 8th 2011, 08:27 PM
The gospel is simple. Believe in Jesus' work on the cross and accept his gift of salvation and be born again

LookingUp
Aug 9th 2011, 12:46 AM
Thanks for your posts everyone. I'm going to spend some time in prayer over this. God bless.