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dancedwithdolphin
Aug 14th 2011, 05:28 PM
Matthew 9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

I can understand the prayer part, but what is the purpose of fasting? How does this help fight the unseen enemy? Is it because we are eating ( But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4) spiritual food vs literal earthly food?

DDGresham1
Aug 14th 2011, 05:43 PM
In my experience the pain/suffering of not eating brings us closer to God. We rely on him to sustain us through our fast via prayer. It clears the mind and allows us to focus properly on the Lord. If you look in your concordance and look up "suffering" and see that it says it's a privelage. It's because it causes us to move closer to God. Fasting will help do this as well.

dancedwithdolphin
Aug 14th 2011, 06:23 PM
Isaiah 58 is quite impressive when speaking of fasting; which it tells what God wants from a fast and what He doesnt want.

I am searching for an answer concerning this: I have prayed for a healing for my friend. Yet this oppression, this bondage will not let him go. So my specific verse of Jesus saying some things of this nature can only be cast out thru prayer and fasting; was to help me understand why. I assume it has something to do with my manner (the condition of my heart and mind) that is preventing my petition.

Ta-An
Aug 14th 2011, 07:20 PM
During fasting I can focus better on God, and realize that I am dependent on Him alone.
Fasting on food also changes the attitude of the heart, and then I hear better... I am better tuned-in the Hear His voice

Ta-An
Aug 14th 2011, 07:23 PM
Isaiah 58 is quite impressive when speaking of fasting; which it tells what God wants from a fast and what He doesnt want.

I am searching for an answer concerning this: I have prayed for a healing for my friend. Yet this oppression, this bondage will not let him go. So my specific verse of Jesus saying some things of this nature can only be cast out thru prayer and fasting; was to help me understand why. I assume it has something to do with my manner (the condition of my heart and mind) that is preventing my petition. Fasting is not always about food, but also of behavior,,, of things that I need to stop doing

BroRog
Aug 14th 2011, 07:33 PM
Matthew 9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

I can understand the prayer part, but what is the purpose of fasting? How does this help fight the unseen enemy? Is it because we are eating ( But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4) spiritual food vs literal earthly food?I don't think Jesus is saying, "In order to fight the enemy, you need to pray and fast." Rather Jesus is saying, "God is the one who fights the enemy and if you want to participate in the battle, you need to be in communion with God." I take note of the fact that in that same passage, Jesus casts out the demon without prayer or fasting. How? Jesus was already in communion with the Father. He was already doing what the Father wanted him to do, and saying what the Father wanted him to say. Apparently the disciples forgot that they weren't casting out the demons themselves, but only in conjunction with their role as apostles for Christ. And, apparently, had they spent more time in prayer and fasting, they would have not made this mistake.

VerticalReality
Aug 15th 2011, 01:35 AM
My personal views on this issue:

1) Scripturally speaking, when it comes to healing I find no biblical example of anyone petitioning God. I personally believe healing is one of the most misunderstood issues within the body of Christ today which is why most Christians rarely ever see a genuine supernatural healing, and it's also why a good portion of Christians have defaulted to cessationist doctrine.

2) The matter of prayer and fasting is directly related to our faith as it was a faith issue with the disciples and their encounter with the boy who had the demon. Prayer and fasting has a spiritual purpose and is completely contrary to our carnal flesh who would much rather we seek worldly things. Our flesh would prefer that our minds be aligned with it so that we fulfill its lusts. Prayer and fasting, if done with the right heart, has a tendency to take our minds away from the flesh all the while getting us more in line with the Spirit.

DDGresham1
Aug 15th 2011, 02:59 AM
It is interesting that many who suffer from cancer go on an all veggie juice diet or raw foods diet and have an increase in their chances of being healed. Noticably greater than a person that goes on eating a regular diet. Not saying they are related but it is interesting to think about.

PilgrimPastor
Aug 15th 2011, 03:09 AM
My two youngest sons agreed (well I volun-told them and they went along...) to give up drinking soda and only drink water every time we ate at a restaurant for the month of April and the money they raised we gave to a friend for his ingeniousness missions work in India. They raised $100.00 and learned a lot about his work in India in the process. We put up a picture of my friend, India, and the churches / orphanage he ministers in there.

It was a simple thing but for two kids under 6 years old it was a great spiritual discipline building time for them that I am sure they will remember. Fasting doesn't have to be bread and water for 40 days, although it can be. It felt very sort of "Catholic" to give up soda, (and we are not Catholic), but their is power in the simplicity of committing to an act of sacrifice for the Lord that one can accomplish. That gives us confidence and spiritual stamina for the next time of sacrifice to grow closer to the Lord.

dancedwithdolphin
Aug 15th 2011, 04:53 AM
While the bridegroom was with them they didnt have to fast. In another place, same story Jesus tells them it was because they didnt have enough faith.

However, I am curious as to the original intention of fasting. Was it something that God commanded or ordained?

Ta-An
Aug 15th 2011, 07:22 AM
It is interesting that many who suffer from cancer go on an all veggie juice diet or raw foods diet and have an increase in their chances of being healed. Noticably greater than a person that goes on eating a regular diet. Not saying they are related but it is interesting to think about.Yup, it is a pity that we wait until we get ill before we eat properly :D

Ta-An
Aug 15th 2011, 07:26 AM
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

These verses to me speaks of the denying of the physical (fasting) for spiritual gain.

Quickened
Aug 15th 2011, 11:55 AM
My two youngest sons agreed (well I volun-told them and they went along...) to give up drinking soda and only drink water every time we ate at a restaurant for the month of April and the money they raised we gave to a friend for his ingeniousness missions work in India. They raised $100.00 and learned a lot about his work in India in the process. We put up a picture of my friend, India, and the churches / orphanage he ministers in there.

It was a simple thing but for two kids under 6 years old it was a great spiritual discipline building time for them that I am sure they will remember. Fasting doesn't have to be bread and water for 40 days, although it can be. It felt very sort of "Catholic" to give up soda, (and we are not Catholic), but their is power in the simplicity of committing to an act of sacrifice for the Lord that one can accomplish. That gives us confidence and spiritual stamina for the next time of sacrifice to grow closer to the Lord.

That's pretty awesome. Though it may have felt "catholic" in practice, I am sure it serves as a good lesson for growth for the kids to reflect back on and teaches good spiritual principles.

keck553
Aug 15th 2011, 05:26 PM
Denying oneself is pretty expounded on in the Bible.

VerticalReality
Aug 15th 2011, 05:52 PM
Denying oneself is pretty expounded on in the Bible.

I would go a step further and state that the denial of the flesh is well expouned upon in scripture. I wouldn't identify with that flesh and consider it to be part of who I am any longer, though. That is the old man that we must put off while we put on the new man that was created in true righteousness and holiness. In truth it is that new creation that makes up our true identity. Our enemy would rather us abide and identify with that old man so that he may enslave us to sin.

Rullion Green
Aug 15th 2011, 06:04 PM
My personal views on this issue:

1) Scripturally speaking, when it comes to healing I find no biblical example of anyone petitioning God. I personally believe healing is one of the most misunderstood issues within the body of Christ today which is why most Christians rarely ever see a genuine supernatural healing, and it's also why a good portion of Christians have defaulted to cessationist doctrine.


This is interesting could you expand on this ?

keck553
Aug 15th 2011, 07:27 PM
I would go a step further and state that the denial of the flesh is well expouned upon in scripture. I wouldn't identify with that flesh and consider it to be part of who I am any longer, though. That is the old man that we must put off while we put on the new man that was created in true righteousness and holiness. In truth it is that new creation that makes up our true identity. Our enemy would rather us abide and identify with that old man so that he may enslave us to sin.

All true. However God did make us in His image in the context of creation. Sustaining our lives by food and drink and shelter is not chasing after the flesh; it is being a good steward of God's creation. Because of sin, we can get rather comfortable with our 'old man nature' and 'forget' who the source of our sustanace is. When our bellies are full and we feel gratified that our 8 hours or so of labor filled us, we are vulnerable and weak in our hearts to the elementary nature of the world we dwell in. Fasting (in context of not eating) can be a good reminder for us that it is God who not only lays out our table wth physical sustanance, but garnishes it with spiritual sustanance. It can be difficult to see the garnish in the midst of the feast, and so a prayerfully prepared fast can 'isolate' the 'garnish' (so to speak) and allow us to take in the rich food of God's Word without distraction. I hope this is a suffcient explanation.

The truth is that every time I have prepared to fast for the purpose of seeking God in that way, I have been brutally attacked spiritually with so many temptations not to do it that it's almost a cat and mouse game any more, except it is not a game, and the adversary is real and wants to steal someone who doesn't belong to him.

Saved7
Aug 15th 2011, 08:00 PM
Ya know, I used to wonder about prayer and fasting. But I heard someone speak on it once, quite recently in fact; he said that fasting helps to bring your flesh into submission to the spirit. After giving this much thought, I realized that this is true, if your flesh is out of control, not only are you going to sin, but it is difficult to hear the Lord speaking, and recognize the guidance of the Spirit, and discern all that goes on. I think the combination that fasting helps to put your heart in the right place, in turn causing you to naturally pray in accordance with the will of the Father, which naturally brings about more answered prayers...a more powerful prayer life. Plus as you said, danced, that when we are eating, we are relying on the things of this world and on top of it, most of us are eating things that are not good for us physically. Believe it or not, but our physical life affects our spiritual life, just as our spiritual life, affects our physical life.

RollTide21
Aug 15th 2011, 08:22 PM
Matthew 9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

I can understand the prayer part, but what is the purpose of fasting? How does this help fight the unseen enemy? Is it because we are eating ( But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4) spiritual food vs literal earthly food?Wrong verse? What translation?

Matthew 9:29 says:

29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; (NIV)

***Edit***Never mind. I found it. It's Mark 9:29.

RollTide21
Aug 15th 2011, 08:31 PM
All true. However God did make us in His image in the context of creation. Sustaining our lives by food and drink and shelter is not chasing after the flesh; it is being a good steward of God's creation. Because of sin, we can get rather comfortable with our 'old man nature' and 'forget' who the source of our sustanace is. When our bellies are full and we feel gratified that our 8 hours or so of labor filled us, we are vulnerable and weak in our hearts to the elementary nature of the world we dwell in. Fasting (in context of not eating) can be a good reminder for us that it is God who not only lays out our table wth physical sustanance, but garnishes it with spiritual sustanance. It can be difficult to see the garnish in the midst of the feast, and so a prayerfully prepared fast can 'isolate' the 'garnish' (so to speak) and allow us to take in the rich food of God's Word without distraction. I hope this is a suffcient explanation.
I've never fasted, but this appears to be an excellent take on fasting and spirituality.

VerticalReality
Aug 15th 2011, 09:23 PM
This is interesting could you expand on this ?

Yes, it basically boils down to the fact that there isn't a scriptural example we can point to where a believer went to God in prayer and asked God to heal so and so or deliver them of some affliction. Yet, this is the typical model you see in churches today. We take constant prayer requests from Brother Joe and Sister Sue for this person they know who is suffering from this or that ailment, and those prayer requests are then taken to God with petitions consisting of, "God, if it be Your will, please touch them and heal their body" or "Lord, we come to You and ask that You please stretch forth Your hand and deliver them of this afflicition." Nothing miraculous really ever happens, though, and then we begin attributing surgical procedures by the hands of men or some medicinal cure as being a miraclulous healing from God. If the person continues in their sickness we just automatically default to the healing not being God's will, so in the end our prayers consist of us begging God repeatedly for something that rarely ever comes to pass. Not very often is it considered that perhaps the church just isn't following God's word on the matter. This eventually leads to what I mentioned in my previous post where Christians resort to cessationist doctrine in order to explain away their lack of supernatural experience.

Not very often do people consider the fact that healing never once took place in the scriptures like the described method above. No believer in the scriptures ever petitioned or begged God repeatedly to heal anyone. No believer ever went about attributing medicinal healing as divine miracles from the Lord. This was just not their mindset or their experience.

VerticalReality
Aug 15th 2011, 09:28 PM
All true. However God did make us in His image in the context of creation. Sustaining our lives by food and drink and shelter is not chasing after the flesh; it is being a good steward of God's creation.

I understand what you're saying, but I do have a question. By your description above, would you consider sleep to be a necessary element of sustaining your life or being a good steward of God's creation?

keck553
Aug 15th 2011, 10:37 PM
Ya know, I used to wonder about prayer and fasting. But I heard someone speak on it once, quite recently in fact; he said that fasting helps to bring your flesh into submission to the spirit. After giving this much thought, I realized that this is true, if your flesh is out of control, not only are you going to sin, but it is difficult to hear the Lord speaking, and recognize the guidance of the Spirit, and discern all that goes on. I think the combination that fasting helps to put your heart in the right place, in turn causing you to naturally pray in accordance with the will of the Father, which naturally brings about more answered prayers...a more powerful prayer life. Plus as you said, danced, that when we are eating, we are relying on the things of this world and on top of it, most of us are eating things that are not good for us physically. Believe it or not, but our physical life affects our spiritual life, just as our spiritual life, affects our physical life.

The way I see it, fasting can not be 'legislated.' It is a deep communion between and individual and God. If it becomes a ritual, the essence of it is ruined IMHO

keck553
Aug 15th 2011, 11:12 PM
I understand what you're saying, but I do have a question. By your description above, would you consider sleep to be a necessary element of sustaining your life or being a good steward of God's creation?

Good question. Answer is that I don't know. I've never considered it and I can't think of any teachings in the Bible concerning sleep in this context.

Once, actually twice in my lfie God has visited me in my sleep. It wasn't so much of a 'vision' (although there were visual surroundings) as this indescribable sense of peace, joy and believe it or not...innocence..or at least the sensation of no sin present. I am not a charismatic believer by anyone's standards, but I can not deny His presence in these events. Sometimes when I am anxious, I remember these moments He gave me and jus the memory washes my anxiety away, almost instantly. It was an incredible gift. To be honest, I would take the peace He gave me over healing my ongoing aches and pains, etc.

DDGresham1
Aug 16th 2011, 12:27 AM
I understand what you're saying, but I do have a question. By your description above, would you consider sleep to be a necessary element of sustaining your life or being a good steward of God's creation?

Christ never metioned "prayer and sleep" as a means to draw closer to God.

Saved7
Aug 16th 2011, 12:37 AM
Yes, it basically boils down to the fact that there isn't a scriptural example we can point to where a believer went to God in prayer and asked God to heal so and so or deliver them of some affliction. Yet, this is the typical model you see in churches today. We take constant prayer requests from Brother Joe and Sister Sue for this person they know who is suffering from this or that ailment, and those prayer requests are then taken to God with petitions consisting of, "God, if it be Your will, please touch them and heal their body" or "Lord, we come to You and ask that You please stretch forth Your hand and deliver them of this afflicition." Nothing miraculous really ever happens, though, and then we begin attributing surgical procedures by the hands of men or some medicinal cure as being a miraclulous healing from God. If the person continues in their sickness we just automatically default to the healing not being God's will, so in the end our prayers consist of us begging God repeatedly for something that rarely ever comes to pass. Not very often is it considered that perhaps the church just isn't following God's word on the matter. This eventually leads to what I mentioned in my previous post where Christians resort to cessationist doctrine in order to explain away their lack of supernatural experience.

Not very often do people consider the fact that healing never once took place in the scriptures like the described method above. No believer in the scriptures ever petitioned or begged God repeatedly to heal anyone. No believer ever went about attributing medicinal healing as divine miracles from the Lord. This was just not their mindset or their experience.

Amen! I think the Bible is quite clear to us, that if we are living holy lives then none of those afflictions will be ours to deal with, but if one is sick we are to have the elders come to pray and that person who is sick will RECOVER, it doesn't say they will be miraculously healed. Although it does happen within the Church and I believe the gifts are for today, but we don't see it because most of us are double minded, we want the world and God. Most of the miracle healings took place on "new believers" people who had never had such an encounter with Jesus or His Apostles, would come to them out of desperation, as it was throughout the whole Bible (with the exception of a few) and those people were healed because they came ready to let go of that thing and ready to turn their lives over to Christ (or came to a new found faith in the God of the Jews) in place for that healing.

Saved7
Aug 16th 2011, 12:39 AM
The way I see it, fasting can not be 'legislated.' It is a deep communion between and individual and God. If it becomes a ritual, the essence of it is ruined IMHO

No doubt, if your heart is in the right place, then you will want to overcome your flesh, and fasting will become a part of your walk because of your nature growing in you. Until then....it's as you say being legislated.

VerticalReality
Aug 16th 2011, 01:16 AM
Christ never metioned "prayer and sleep" as a means to draw closer to God.

What about fasting from sleep?

ZDOxcar
Aug 16th 2011, 01:25 AM
fasting is a way to humble oneself:

Psalm 35:13 "...I put on sackcloth and humbled myself with fasting"

fasting is a way to move back towards God (as mentioned by many others in this thread):

Joel 2:12: "return to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning"

DDGresham1
Aug 16th 2011, 03:35 AM
What about fasting from sleep?

Yes, he did go without sleep during prayer.

VerticalReality
Aug 16th 2011, 12:22 PM
Yes, he did go without sleep during prayer.

So, what sort of purpose would going without sleep serve? Likewise, the same could be asked of food, water, etc. Some would argue that going without food/water/sleep would deprive God's creation when we should be caring for it.

RollTide21
Aug 16th 2011, 05:08 PM
Amen! I think the Bible is quite clear to us, that if we are living holy lives then none of those afflictions will be ours to deal with, but if one is sick we are to have the elders come to pray and that person who is sick will RECOVER, it doesn't say they will be miraculously healed. Although it does happen within the Church and I believe the gifts are for today, but we don't see it because most of us are double minded, we want the world and God. Most of the miracle healings took place on "new believers" people who had never had such an encounter with Jesus or His Apostles, would come to them out of desperation, as it was throughout the whole Bible (with the exception of a few) and those people were healed because they came ready to let go of that thing and ready to turn their lives over to Christ (or came to a new found faith in the God of the Jews) in place for that healing.What you say is true about the healings recorded in Scripture. However, we can't force ourselves to have a measure of Faith that we don't have.

What I mean is this:

God deals with us in a manner according to His Will. He distributes His Grace according to His Will. My heart is as open and transparent before Him as it can possibly be...and He has never graced me with any sort of "miracle"...as this context would define it. In fact, I was going through a particularly difficult affliction one time and, in complete and total brokenness and desperation, literally got on my knees crying for God to deliver me in the Name of Jesus. I rebuked Satan by His Name and called from the depths of my soul to God for deliverance. Nothing. I honestly felt as if I was talking in a sound proof room. Looking back, it's obvious that, with His silence, God was merely telling me "It's my Will that you endure this."

With all of that, how could I have a DIFFERENT outlook on the "miraculous"? It IS about the Will of God.

keck553
Aug 16th 2011, 06:51 PM
So, what sort of purpose would going without sleep serve? Likewise, the same could be asked of food, water, etc. Some would argue that going without food/water/sleep would deprive God's creation when we should be caring for it.

Peter (and others) didn't do too well when asked to keep watch and not sleep.

VerticalReality
Aug 17th 2011, 12:23 AM
Peter (and others) didn't do too well when asked to keep watch and not sleep.

Very true, and because of their obedience to the flesh they fell into temptation. Jesus warned them to keep watch and pray because if they did not then they would not be able to stand in that hour of trial. Of course, what Jesus spoke was exactly what came to pass. If we are obedient to our flesh when it cries out then we will not be able to stand when it counts most.