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achelgeson
Oct 20th 2011, 01:34 AM
Hello everyone, im new to this forum.
I have a question regarding what my "church" believes. My pastor is a women, and the Bible says in 1st Timothy 2:11-15 that women should keep silent. Also, if you take a look my church's at statement of faith: http://pilgrimcongregationalchurch.org/STATEMENT_OF_FAITH
I (http://pilgrimcongregationalchurch.org/STATEMENT_OF_FAITH/)t doesn't say anything about the death of Christ, it just mentions the resurrection. Im starting to doubt if my pastor even believes that she is a sinner, and needs to repent and believe to be saved. Is this how most Congregational church's go, or am I in a bad church?

Reynolds357
Oct 20th 2011, 01:58 AM
Hello everyone, im new to this forum.
I have a question regarding what my "church" believes. My pastor is a women, and the Bible says in 1st Timothy 2:11-15 that women should keep silent. Also, if you take a look my church's at statement of faith: http://pilgrimcongregationalchurch.org/STATEMENT_OF_FAITH
I (http://pilgrimcongregationalchurch.org/STATEMENT_OF_FAITH/)t doesn't say anything about the death of Christ, it just mentions the resurrection. Im starting to doubt if my pastor even believes that she is a sinner, and needs to repent and believe to be saved. Is this how most Congregational church's go, or am I in a bad church?

The statement is too vague for me to form an opinion.

amazzin
Oct 20th 2011, 02:10 AM
Why don't you ask her directly about that?


Hello everyone, im new to this forum.
I have a question regarding what my "church" believes. My pastor is a women, and the Bible says in 1st Timothy 2:11-15 that women should keep silent. Also, if you take a look my church's at statement of faith: http://pilgrimcongregationalchurch.org/STATEMENT_OF_FAITH
I (http://pilgrimcongregationalchurch.org/STATEMENT_OF_FAITH/)t doesn't say anything about the death of Christ, it just mentions the resurrection. Im starting to doubt if my pastor even believes that she is a sinner, and needs to repent and believe to be saved. Is this how most Congregational church's go, or am I in a bad church?

achelgeson
Oct 20th 2011, 03:35 AM
I definitely should, but I know already that she doesnt like the idea that Jesus died for our sins. In the choir, we sang "Jesus Paid it All", and she told the choir director to never do it again. That alone should say something is messed up with their theology. I have been going to that church for 10 years, and I got saved just last year from youtube videos concerning the gospel.

Diggindeeper
Oct 20th 2011, 04:19 AM
Maybe its time for you to find another church..........

If I'm not mistaken, aren't the Congregational Christian Churches associated with the one that Obama used to attend, where Jeremiah Wright is the Pastor?

MoreMercy
Oct 20th 2011, 04:54 AM
Hi achelgeson

I want to share this with you:
We are not always led to any certain church to benefit our self, sometimes some of us are led to a certain church to bless someone else in that certain church.

Just hold fast to what Jesus has given you, and trust Him that He said: He will finish the good work He started in you. Just hold fast to what He has given you.

Trust too that if any of His are led or wander to a sandy/insecure place: He will leave/drop everything until He finds and brings them back to Himself.

He is charged to keep all who God has brought to Him, and He is faithful and capable of fulfilling that charge, amen.


Father bless and have mercy on us.

ewq1938
Oct 20th 2011, 05:00 AM
[/URL]It doesn't say anything about the death of Christ, it just mentions the resurrection.

"We trust in the grace of God, who raised our Lord Jesus Christ from the dead"


oops.

Diggindeeper
Oct 20th 2011, 05:12 AM
Maybe she needs to read this:

page at http://bibleforums.org/content.php?5...s-Broadcast...

achelgeson
Oct 20th 2011, 03:52 PM
"We trust in the grace of God, who raised our Lord Jesus Christ from the dead"


oops.

Yes, i know that, its just that i never hear her mention that Jesus paid for our sins, which is an essential part of the gospel.

keck553
Oct 20th 2011, 04:06 PM
Women elders / pastors are unBiblical.

mikebr
Oct 20th 2011, 08:00 PM
Women elders / pastors are unBiblical.

..............................but are they necessarily un-Christian?

notuptome
Oct 20th 2011, 08:18 PM
..............................but are they necessarily un-Christian?
Given the surrounding evidence it is probable in the church mentioned that this person is not a born again blood bought believer. But as a rule unbiblical does not mean unsaved just undiscipled.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

achelgeson
Oct 20th 2011, 09:25 PM
It says in 1st Timothy 2:11-15
11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint

However, notice that this is what Paul thinks, not God. in verse 12, "But I do not allow"
Anyway, it is a very difficult subject.

Diggindeeper
Oct 20th 2011, 11:15 PM
It says in 1st Timothy 2:11-15
11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint

However, notice that this is what Paul thinks, not God. in verse 12, "But I do not allow"
Anyway, it is a very difficult subject.

Its not difficult at all to those of us who just accept the scriptures. I find in the New Testament where there are women teaching, helping, even prophesying...but I cannot find one, not one, Pastor who is a woman. It appears that in the church where you attend...that woman Pastor even tells the song leader NOT to sing certain songs! SHE is over everyone, or so it appears to me! Even to the point of telling them NOT to again sing
"Jesus paid it all,
all to him I owe.
Sin has left a crimson stain...
he washed it white as snow."

Friend, you have as much right as I do to sing about that! And...its in my head now, so I'll probably be going around singing it for the next 3 or 4 days! She would not be able to stop me.

You told us in post #4, "I know already that she doesn't like the idea that Jesus died for our sins. In the choir, we sang "Jesus Paid it All", and she told the choir director to never do it again. That alone should say something is messed up with their theology."

Why is it so hard for some people to just leave and go to another church? I just don't get that. Often the Lord is leading people somewhere else, but they fight it with all their strength.

keck553
Oct 20th 2011, 11:26 PM
..............................but are they necessarily un-Christian?

I don't know what "un-Christian" means in your context. A church that strays from God's Word loses its authority.

According to Paul in Titus and several other letters there is no place for women as elders in the Christ's church.

amazzin
Oct 20th 2011, 11:41 PM
Oh Oh....I percieve a mouse about to make its entrance....oh dear!!!


Women elders / pastors are unBiblical.

amazzin
Oct 20th 2011, 11:42 PM
Then shake the dust off your feet and R U N ..........


I definitely should, but I know already that she doesnt like the idea that Jesus died for our sins. In the choir, we sang "Jesus Paid it All", and she told the choir director to never do it again. That alone should say something is messed up with their theology. I have been going to that church for 10 years, and I got saved just last year from youtube videos concerning the gospel.

keck553
Oct 20th 2011, 11:45 PM
Oh Oh....I percieve a mouse about to make its entrance....oh dear!!!

Sorry - it was the first red flag I noticed in the OP

achelgeson
Oct 21st 2011, 04:04 AM
Its not difficult at all to those of us who just accept the scriptures. I find in the New Testament where there are women teaching, helping, even prophesying...but I cannot find one, not one, Pastor who is a woman. It appears that in the church where you attend...that woman Pastor even tells the song leader NOT to sing certain songs! SHE is over everyone, or so it appears to me! Even to the point of telling them NOT to again sing
"Jesus paid it all,
all to him I owe.
Sin has left a crimson stain...
he washed it white as snow."

Friend, you have as much right as I do to sing about that! And...its in my head now, so I'll probably be going around singing it for the next 3 or 4 days! She would not be able to stop me.

You told us in post #4, "I know already that she doesn't like the idea that Jesus died for our sins. In the choir, we sang "Jesus Paid it All", and she told the choir director to never do it again. That alone should say something is messed up with their theology."

Why is it so hard for some people to just leave and go to another church? I just don't get that. Often the Lord is leading people somewhere else, but they fight it with all their strength.

I am going to another church at my college, that sticks to scripture thank the Lord. I am just concerned for my family, all of whom are not saved. We have been going to the church for like 10 years. I'm only 18, and I have only been a true born-again Christian since the beginning of this year. Even when I tell them the truths of the gospel, they dont accept it.

mikebr
Oct 21st 2011, 11:55 AM
Women elders / pastors are unBiblical.


I don't know what "un-Christian" means in your context. A church that strays from God's Word loses its authority.

According to Paul in Titus and several other letters there is no place for women as elders in the Christ's church.

The statement that I referred to was a very general one and not specific to the OP. Just because Paul taught against it doesn't mean that a woman put in such a position is not a Christian.

Firstfruits
Oct 21st 2011, 02:40 PM
May I ask what it means to prophesy, what is that person doing when they prophesy?

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Firstfruits

MoreMercy
Oct 21st 2011, 04:41 PM
May I ask what it means to prophesy, what is that person doing when they prophesy?

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Firstfruits I get ya: it means to teach ! :pp :pp :pp


Father bless and have mercy on us.

keck553
Oct 21st 2011, 06:41 PM
The statement that I referred to was a very general one and not specific to the OP. Just because Paul taught against it doesn't mean that a woman put in such a position is not a Christian.

Then what would you call a person who claims to be a believer, but rebels against the teachings of Scripture? How did Jesus characterize such folks?

NetCritic
Oct 21st 2011, 09:14 PM
Hello everyone, im new to this forum.
I have a question regarding what my "church" believes. My pastor is a women, and the Bible says in 1st Timothy 2:11-15 that women should keep silent. Also, if you take a look my church's at statement of faith: http://pilgrimcongregationalchurch.org/STATEMENT_OF_FAITH
I (http://pilgrimcongregationalchurch.org/STATEMENT_OF_FAITH/)t doesn't say anything about the death of Christ, it just mentions the resurrection. Im starting to doubt if my pastor even believes that she is a sinner, and needs to repent and believe to be saved. Is this how most Congregational church's go, or am I in a bad church?

The whole thing about women preaching can be debated for hours, the reason I say this is because Paul said himself that he doesn't PERMIT women to preach.

Here, read this it's right out of the Bible

11 Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.

12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;

14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression:

15 but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.

Back then it was still traditional, as it still is in a lot of countries today, for women to be "subject" to their husband because the husband is the head of the family.

Paul doesn't say that God doesn't want women to preach, or teach, he says that he himself doesn't permit them to be dominent over a man, it all ties in with the whole thing where it's said that a Man is the head of the family, and Jesus is the head of the Church.

So pretty much Paul says that women are good for baby popping, and growing children....

I personally believe that it would be wrong for a Woman to become pastor, but I"m just rallying with the Bible, I'd have to meet a lady pastor to give a final opinoin. But from what you say about her, it seems as if she really is "messed up".

My best advise is, Find a different church. Or better yet, pray about it, and then find a different church...

It's really sad though that so many churches are becoming corrupt, even mine seems a little materialistic....

Firstfruits
Oct 21st 2011, 09:55 PM
The whole thing about women preaching can be debated for hours, the reason I say this is because Paul said himself that he doesn't PERMIT women to preach.

Here, read this it's right out of the Bible

11 Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.

12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;

14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression:

15 but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.

Back then it was still traditional, as it still is in a lot of countries today, for women to be "subject" to their husband because the husband is the head of the family.

Paul doesn't say that God doesn't want women to preach, or teach, he says that he himself doesn't permit them to be dominent over a man, it all ties in with the whole thing where it's said that a Man is the head of the family, and Jesus is the head of the Church.

So pretty much Paul says that women are good for baby popping, and growing children....

I personally believe that it would be wrong for a Woman to become pastor, but I"m just rallying with the Bible, I'd have to meet a lady pastor to give a final opinoin. But from what you say about her, it seems as if she really is "messed up".

My best advise is, Find a different church. Or better yet, pray about it, and then find a different church...

It's really sad though that so many churches are becoming corrupt, even mine seems a little materialistic....

With what Paul has said and what God has promised, has God not given men and women the same job?

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Firstfruits

keck553
Oct 21st 2011, 10:57 PM
With what Paul has said and what God has promised, has God not given men and women the same job?

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Firstfruits

Joel's prophecy has only been partially fulfilled. God has not poured out His Spirit on "ALL" flesh. Partial fulfillments are allowed in Hebraic venacular; there is even an official term for it. If you read on in Joel, you'll see why the fulfillment was partial. So you can't assume all what you have quoted above has come to pass in completion.

Besides, no one has said that women can't teach. Let's stay in context. Women are not to teach MEN or hold the position of Elder. This has nothing to do with the Yo'el prophecy.

PJW
Oct 21st 2011, 11:10 PM
I don't know why so many people tippy-toe around such a grievous breach of scripture! This woman teacher is out of order and so is a "church" that allows a woman to teach. I Tim 2:12 says so and that is my authority.
**remaining text edited by admin**

amazzin
Oct 21st 2011, 11:14 PM
Lets be civil or avoid posting ....thank you
I don't know why so many people tippy-toe around such a grievous breach of scripture! This woman teacher is out of order and so is a "church" that allows a woman to teach. I Tim 2:12 says so and that is my authority.
**remaining text edited by admin**

keck553
Oct 21st 2011, 11:22 PM
Lets be civil or avoid posting ....thank you

I think the OP has been answered in various aspectes; I didn't mean to derail the thread and then get sucked into into another debate about women teaching men.

amazzin
Oct 21st 2011, 11:58 PM
I think the OP has been answered in various aspectes; I didn't mean to derail the thread and then get sucked into into another debate about women teaching men.

On that note thread is closed