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quiet dove
Dec 14th 2011, 03:43 PM
In Matthew
Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

I am tired of wondering where I am missing one, what am I doing wrong here
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Abraham to David
Mat 1:2 (1)Abraham ... (2)Isaac ... (3)Jacob ... (4)Judah ... (5)Perez ... (6)Hezron ... (7)Ram. 4 (8)Amminadab ... (9)Nahshon ... (10)Salmon. 5 ... (11)Boaz ... (12)Obed ... (13)Jesse....(14)David)

David(Solomon) until Babylonian captivity
6 ... (1)Solomon ... (2)Rehoboam ... (3)Abijah ... (4)Asa. 8 ... (5)Jehoshaphat ... (6)Joram ... (7)Uzziah. 9... (8)Jotham ... (9)Ahaz ... (10)Hezekiah. 10 ... (11)Manasseh ... (12)Amon ... (13)Josiah. 11 ... (14)Jeconiah .......
about the time they were carried away to Babylon.

Babylon to Jesus--this is where I am one short??
12 ..... after they were brought to Babylon....
(1)Shealtiel ... (2)Zerubbabel. 13 ... (3)Abiud ... (4)Eliakim ... (5)Azor ... (6)Zadok ...(7)Achim ... (8)Eliud 15... (9)Eleazar ... (10)Matthan ... (11)Jacob ... (12)Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born (13)Jesus who is called Christ.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I count Jeconiah also in the count from Babylon to Jesus that would be fourteen, however, that does not seem to be the pattern because from Abraham to David, and from David until Babylon, is fourteen without counting a name twice.

I am really tired of wondering about this, and where I am missing it at.


P.S. with a copy and paste my nifty little arrows didn't come across, so now just dots.....:cry: (bold numbers are verse numbers :))

Thanks everyone for any help

-SEEKING-
Dec 14th 2011, 04:22 PM
It's even less. You wrote Ram twice.

divaD
Dec 14th 2011, 05:39 PM
In Matthew
Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

I am tired of wondering where I am missing one, what am I doing wrong here
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Abraham to David
Mat 1:2 (1)Abraham ... (2)Isaac ... (3)Jacob ... (4)Judah ... (5)Perez ... (6)Hezron ... (7)Ram. 4 (8)Ram ... (9)Amminadab ... (10)Nahshon ... (11)Salmon. 5 ... (12)Boaz ... (13)Obed ... (14)Jesse,

David until Babylonian captivity
6... (1)David the king ... (2)Solomon ... (3)Rehoboam ... (4)Abijah ... (5)sa. 8 ... (6)Jehoshaphat ... (7)Joram ... (8)Uzziah. 9... (9)Jotham ... (10)Ahaz ... (11)Hezekiah. 10 ... (11)Manasseh ... (12)Amon ... (13)Josiah. 11 ... (14)Jeconiah .......
about the time they were carried away to Babylon.

Babylon to Jesus--this is where I am one short??
12 ..... after they were brought to Babylon....
(1)Shealtiel ... (2)Zerubbabel. 13 ... (3)Abiud ... (4)Eliakim ... (5)Azor ... (6)Zadok ...(7)Achim ... (8)Eliud 15... (9)Eleazar ... (10)Matthan ... (11)Jacob ... (12)Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born (13)Jesus who is called Christ.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I count Jeconiah also in the count from Babylon to Jesus that would be fourteen, however, that does not seem to be the pattern because from Abraham to David, and from David until Babylon, is fourteen without counting a name twice.

I am really tired of wondering about this, and where I am missing it at.


P.S. with a copy and paste my nifty little arrows didn't come across, so now just dots.....:cry: (bold numbers are verse numbers :))

Thanks everyone for any help



At least you're doing better than me, lol. You only came up 1 short. When I added them all together, I came up with 39 generations, unless I miscounted.

-SEEKING-
Dec 14th 2011, 05:58 PM
Odd that a tax collecter would be bad at math.

divaD
Dec 14th 2011, 05:59 PM
Here's the way I counted them, unless I made a mistake somewhere.

Abraham begat Isaac 1
Isaac begat Jacob 2
Jacob begat Judas and his brethren 3
Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar 4
Phares begat Esrom 5
Esrom begat Aram 6
Aram begat Aminadab 7
Aminadab begat Naasson 8
Naasson begat Salmon 9
Salmon begat Booz of Rachab 10
Booz begat Obed of Ruth 11
Obed begat Jesse 12
Jesse begat David the king 13
David the king begat Solomon 14
Solomon begat Roboam 15
Roboam begat Abia 16
Abia begat Asa 17
Asa begat Josaphat 18
Josaphat begat Joram 19
Joram begat Ozias 20
Ozias begat Joatham 21
Joatham begat Achaz 22
Achaz begat Ezekias 23
Ezekias begat Manasses 24
Manasses begat Amon 25
Amon begat Josias 26
Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren 27
Jechonias begat Salathiel 28
Salathiel begat Zorobabel 29
Zorobabel begat Abiud 30
Abiud begat Eliakim 31
Eliakim begat Azor 32
Azor begat Sadoc 33
Sadoc begat Achim 34
Achim begat Eliud 35
Eliud begat Eleazar 36
Eleazar begat Matthan 37
Matthan begat Jacob 38
Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 39

14X3=42, not 39.

-SEEKING-
Dec 14th 2011, 06:04 PM
What version is that diva?

divaD
Dec 14th 2011, 06:12 PM
What version is that diva?



I copied all of them from the KJV. I did it that way in order to simplify the list.

quiet dove
Dec 14th 2011, 06:18 PM
It's even less. You wrote Ram twice.

Ok, thanks, I fixed that. Removed the extra Ram, put David up one. I think there is still 14 in the first two and 12 in the last

I know I am missing something here

divaD
Dec 14th 2011, 06:31 PM
I think I see where the misunderstanding might lie...maybe? Notice what the following text states.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations;

Notice in my previous list what it states for #14. #13 should be #14, since that was the generation that began David's life. So the following is how the first section should count.

Abraham 1 begat Isaac 2
Isaac begat Jacob 3
Jacob begat Judas and his brethren 4
Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar 5
Phares begat Esrom 6
Esrom begat Aram 7
Aram begat Aminadab 8
Aminadab begat Naasson 9
Naasson begat Salmon 10
Salmon begat Booz of Rachab 11
Booz begat Obed of Ruth 12
Obed begat Jesse 13
Jesse begat David the king 14

If this is anywhere correct, then all we have to do is do something similar with the 2 remaining pairs of the 14 generations each, which should then account for these other 2 missing generations, thus making it 42 and not 39 or 40. But then maybe not. It's still too early in the day to tell if I'm even thinking clearly enough yet..

quiet dove
Dec 14th 2011, 06:33 PM
Here's the way I counted them, unless I made a mistake somewhere.

Abraham begat Isaac 1
Isaac begat Jacob 2
Jacob begat Judas and his brethren 3
Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar 4
Phares begat Esrom 5
Esrom begat Aram 6
Aram begat Aminadab 7
Aminadab begat Naasson 8
Naasson begat Salmon 9
Salmon begat Booz of Rachab 10
Booz begat Obed of Ruth 11
Obed begat Jesse 12
Jesse begat David the king 13
David the king begat Solomon 14
Solomon begat Roboam 15
Roboam begat Abia 16
Abia begat Asa 17
Asa begat Josaphat 18
Josaphat begat Joram 19
Joram begat Ozias 20
Ozias begat Joatham 21
Joatham begat Achaz 22
Achaz begat Ezekias 23
Ezekias begat Manasses 24
Manasses begat Amon 25
Amon begat Josias 26
Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren 27
Jechonias begat Salathiel 28
Salathiel begat Zorobabel 29
Zorobabel begat Abiud 30
Abiud begat Eliakim 31
Eliakim begat Azor 32
Azor begat Sadoc 33
Sadoc begat Achim 34
Achim begat Eliud 35
Eliud begat Eleazar 36
Eleazar begat Matthan 37
Matthan begat Jacob 38
Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 39

14X3=42, not 39.

What about Abraham, he would be number one, right? That still makes it 40, and not 42.

divaD
Dec 14th 2011, 06:37 PM
What about Abraham, he would be number one, right? That still makes it 40, and not 42.


You would be correct. I'm going to look at this list again and see if there's anyway it would be like that for the remaining pair as well, thus these two missing generations..

quiet dove
Dec 14th 2011, 06:40 PM
DivaD, here is your list with Abraham as number 1

Abraham 1
Abraham begat Isaac 2
Isaac begat Jacob 3
Jacob begat Judas and his brethren 4
Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar 5
Phares begat Esrom 6
Esrom begat Aram 7
Aram begat Aminadab 8
Aminadab begat Naasson 9
Naasson begat Salmon 10
Salmon begat Booz of Rachab 11
Booz begat Obed of Ruth 12
Obed begat Jesse 13
Jesse begat David the king 14

David the king begat Solomon 15(1)
Solomon begat Roboam 16(2)
Roboam begat Abia 17(3)
Abia begat Asa 18(4)
Asa begat Josaphat 19(5)
Josaphat begat Joram 20(6)
Joram begat Ozias 21(7)
Ozias begat Joatham 22(8)
Joatham begat Achaz 23(9)
Achaz begat Ezekias 24(10)
Ezekias begat Manasses 25(11)
Manasses begat Amon 26(12)
Amon begat Josias 27(13)
Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren 28(14)

Jechonias begat Salathiel 29(1)
Salathiel begat Zorobabel 30(2)
Zorobabel begat Abiud 31(3)
Abiud begat Eliakim 32(4)
Eliakim begat Azor 33(5)
Azor begat Sadoc 34(6)
Sadoc begat Achim 35(7)
Achim begat Eliud 36(8)
Eliud begat Eleazar 37(9)
Eleazar begat Matthan 38(10)
Matthan begat Jacob 39(11)
Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 40(12)

quiet dove
Dec 14th 2011, 06:42 PM
You would be correct. I'm going to look at this list again and see if there's anyway it would be like that for the remaining pair as well, thus these two missing generations..

Ok, thanks. I know it must be there.

quiet dove
Dec 14th 2011, 06:52 PM
The only addition I can find, is even though David is named once in the verses, when we get to verse it says "Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.


To count David in both of those lists? And possibly Jeconiah, since he is the first in the list after they would have been in Babylon?

I'm digging through commentaries now....LOL...and not a lot of help really, not yet anyway.

quiet dove
Dec 14th 2011, 06:54 PM
markedward, I see you lurking around, surely you have some input....:)

quiet dove
Dec 14th 2011, 06:58 PM
This is from "Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown" which is downloaded with my e-sword


unto Christ are fourteen generations — that is, the whole may be conveniently divided into three fourteens, each embracing one marked era, and each ending with a notable event, in the Israelitish annals. Such artificial aids to memory were familiar to the Jews, and much larger gaps than those here are found in some of the Old Testament genealogies. In Ezr_7:1-5 no fewer than six generations of the priesthood are omitted, as will appear by comparing it with 1Ch_6:3-15. It will be observed that the last of the three divisions of fourteen appears to contain only thirteen distinct names, including Jesus as the last. Lange thinks that this was meant as a tacit hint that Mary was to be supplied, as the thirteenth link of the last chain, as it is impossible to conceive that the Evangelist could have made any mistake in the matter. But there is a simpler way of accounting for it. As the Evangelist himself (Mat_1:17) reckons David twice - as the last of the first fourteen and the first of the second - so, if we reckon the second fourteen to end with Josiah, who was coeval with the “carrying away into captivity” (Mat_1:11), and third to begin with Jeconiah, it will be found that the last division, as well as the other two, embraces fourteen names, including that of our Lord.

I have just been looking at the commentaries I have downloaded, because I am at a loss with where I am missing this at.

divaD
Dec 14th 2011, 06:59 PM
The only addition I can find, is even though David is named once in the verses, when we get to verse it says "Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.


To count David in both of those lists? And possibly Jeconiah, since he is the first in the list after they would have been in Babylon?

I'm digging through commentaries now....LOL...and not a lot of help really, not yet anyway.



Here's what I just came up within the meantime.

Notice what this says....and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations. So when was David?

and Jesse begat David the king

He was here. So that means we count him twice, since the passage says from David. If this is correct, that makes this list now 41.

And finally we see this.

and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

So when did this happen?

And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren

So then we would start counting 14 generations from here.

Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren 1
Jechonias begat Salathiel 2
Salathiel begat Zorobabel 3
Zorobabel begat Abiud 4
Abiud begat Eliakim 5
Eliakim begat Azor 6
Azor begat Sadoc 7
Sadoc begat Achim 8
Achim begat Eliud 9
Eliud begat Eleazar 10
Eleazar begat Matthan 11
Matthan begat Jacob 12
Jacob begat Joseph 13 the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 14

The reason why I think it might be like this, because it would still be a generation after Joseph is born that the Messiah would come.

markedward
Dec 14th 2011, 07:04 PM
If I count Jeconiah also in the count from Babylon to Jesus that would be fourteen, however, that does not seem to be the pattern because from Abraham to David, and from David until Babylon, is fourteen without counting a name twice.
This is the solution, though.

Matthew is counting a name twice... Notice how he specifically says which groups the 14 go in: Abraham to David, David to the Babylonian captivity, Babylonian captivity to Jesus. The end of the first fourteen is a person, David. The end of the second fourteen is not a person, it's an event. He doubles up using Jeconiah.

Abraham to David
1. Abraham
2. Isaac
3. Jacob
4. Judah
5. Perez
6. Hezron
7. Ram
8. Amminadab
9. Nashshon
10. Salmon
11. Boaz
12. Obed
13. Jesse
14. David

David to the Babylonian exile
1. Solomon
2. Rehoboam
3. Abijah
4. Asaph
5. Jehoshaphat
6. Joram
7. Uzziah
8. Jotham
9. Ahaz
10. Hezekiah
11. Manasseh
12. Amos
13. Josiah
14. Jeconiah (i.e. the Babylonian exile)

The Babylonian exile to Jesus
1. Jeconiah (i.e. the Babylonian exile)
2. Shealtiel
3. Zerubbabel
4. Abiud
5. Eliakim
6. Azor
7. Zadok
8. Achim
9. Eliud
10. Eleazar
11. Matthan
12. Jacob
13. Joseph
14. Jesus the Christ

The reason Matthew limits each set to fourteen names, when he could easily have done more or fewer, is because 14 is the numeric value of 'David' in Hebrew. He could also have included more people to round each set off to a full 14 (he left out four generations in the 'from David to the Babylonian exile' section, three of which were subsequent to each other), but he is intentionally limiting the lists because the people included he considers to be somehow relevant or prophetic of the coming of the Christ (or he is omitting kings he considers to be, in some way, bad, and thus not worth mention in the lineage of the Christ).

Each set begins and ends with what Matthew believes are the most important parts of Israel's history (post-Exodus, at least): the giving of the Covenant (Abraham), the foundation of the Kingdom (David), the epitome of Israel's need for salvation (exile, which in the Covenant takes place because of sin, and is itself synonymous with 'death'), and the coming of that salvation (the Christ).

quiet dove
Dec 14th 2011, 07:10 PM
Thanks guys, mystery solved.

I think I was trying to add in some significance regarding the 14, that simply is not there and I didn't realize I was even doing that. thanks so much.

I can't seem to rep either of ya yet so my thanks will have to do....LOL

quiet dove
Dec 14th 2011, 07:16 PM
I have a thing with a bunch of genealogy stuff but it is a file type .wps, which is some stupid version of word that came with my computer. I don't know how to attach it and can't seem to get it in a format that will work. It is all in text boxes and I can't even export it to jpg.

any ideas I will be glad to attach it here if anyone is interested. I started with Adam and put as much as I could find, and figure out...:rolleyes: anyway.

Fenris
Dec 14th 2011, 08:40 PM
(he left out four generations in the 'from David to the Babylonian exile' section, three of which were subsequent to each other),
Yeah, I was going to say, Matthew's list doesn't match the one in Chronicles.


Matthew: David to the Babylonian exile
1. Solomon
2. Rehoboam
3. Abijah
4. Asaph
5. Jehoshaphat
6. Joram
7. Uzziah
8. Jotham
9. Ahaz
10. Hezekiah
11. Manasseh
12. Amos
13. Josiah
14. Jeconiah (i.e. the Babylonian exile)

1 Chronicles 3
1.Solomon
2.Rehoboam
3.Abijah
4.Asa
5.Jehoshaphat
6.Joram
7.Ahaziah
8.Joash
9.Amaziah
10.Azariah
11.Jotham
12.Ahaz
13.Hezekiah
14.Menasseh
15.Amon
16.Josiah
17.Jeconiah

quiet dove
Dec 15th 2011, 03:16 AM
No, Matthew did not list everyone, but I dont think that was really all that uncommon. I worked really hard to gather genealogy and just about had a breakdown with all the different names....for the same person... :lol:

It is like where I live, one road has six names....

Fenris
Dec 15th 2011, 11:18 AM
No, Matthew did not list everyone, but I dont think that was really all that uncommon.
I don't see the significance of there being "14 generations" when it's actually 17 generations.

Adstars
Dec 15th 2011, 11:42 AM
In Matthew
Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

I am tired of wondering where I am missing one, what am I doing wrong here
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Abraham to David
Mat 1:2 (1)Abraham ... (2)Isaac ... (3)Jacob ... (4)Judah ... (5)Perez ... (6)Hezron ... (7)Ram. 4 (8)Amminadab ... (9)Nahshon ... (10)Salmon. 5 ... (11)Boaz ... (12)Obed ... (13)Jesse....(14)David)

David(Solomon) until Babylonian captivity
6 ... (1)Solomon ... (2)Rehoboam ... (3)Abijah ... (4)Asa. 8 ... (5)Jehoshaphat ... (6)Joram ... (7)Uzziah. 9... (8)Jotham ... (9)Ahaz ... (10)Hezekiah. 10 ... (11)Manasseh ... (12)Amon ... (13)Josiah. 11 ... (14)Jeconiah .......
about the time they were carried away to Babylon.

Babylon to Jesus--this is where I am one short??
12 ..... after they were brought to Babylon....
(1)Shealtiel ... (2)Zerubbabel. 13 ... (3)Abiud ... (4)Eliakim ... (5)Azor ... (6)Zadok ...(7)Achim ... (8)Eliud 15... (9)Eleazar ... (10)Matthan ... (11)Jacob ... (12)Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born (13)Jesus who is called Christ.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I count Jeconiah also in the count from Babylon to Jesus that would be fourteen, however, that does not seem to be the pattern because from Abraham to David, and from David until Babylon, is fourteen without counting a name twice.

I am really tired of wondering about this, and where I am missing it at.


P.S. with a copy and paste my nifty little arrows didn't come across, so now just dots.....:cry: (bold numbers are verse numbers :))

Thanks everyone for any help

Well was Matthew talking about generations as you have perceived it?

Or was He talking about generations as in 14 sets of 70 years that adds up to 980 years.

Scriptures might be saying that from Abraham to David was 980 years and David to the captivity was 980 years. And that crom the captivity to Jesus was 980 years.

So from Abraham to Jesus would add up to 3 x 980 = 2940 years.

It could be argued that many of the people mentioned in the genealogy lived longer that the standard biblical generation. 70 years. And some of the sons could have been younger sons. Remember David was the youngest son. And again some of the sons where born when their father was old. Abraham was very old when He had his son.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Fenris
Dec 15th 2011, 11:51 AM
Well was Matthew talking about generations as you have perceived it?

Or was He talking about generations as in 14 sets of 70 years that adding up to 980 years.

Scriptures might be saying that from Abraham to David was 980 years and David to Jesus was 980 years.

That's not what Matthew is saying.

So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

Ah, you made an edit:


Scriptures might be saying that from Abraham to David was 980 years and David to the captivity was 980 years. And that from the captivity to Jesus was 980 years.

Makes no sense. David didn't live 980 years before the captivity. David lived around 1000 BCE and the captivity was about 586BCE.


So from Abraham to Jesus would add up to 3 x 980 = 2940 years.Abraham lived about 2000 years before Jesus, not 3000 years before Jesus.

quiet dove
Dec 15th 2011, 01:51 PM
I don't see the significance of there being "14 generations" when it's actually 17 generations.

Thats just it, I really don't see a 'significance', not that there isn't one, but I am thinking, at least right now, it was written that way to make his point regarding genealogy, and also because broken up in equal numbers with a specific number would increase the ability to remember it.

quiet dove
Dec 15th 2011, 01:54 PM
Well was Matthew talking about generations as you have perceived it?

Or was He talking about generations as in 14 sets of 70 years that adds up to 980 years.

Scriptures might be saying that from Abraham to David was 980 years and David to the captivity was 980 years. And that crom the captivity to Jesus was 980 years.

So from Abraham to Jesus would add up to 3 x 980 = 2940 years.

It could be argued that many of the people mentioned in the genealogy lived longer that the standard biblical generation. 70 years. And some of the sons could have been younger sons. Remember David was the youngest son. And again some of the sons where born when their father was old. Abraham was very old when He had his son.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

To me, it seems like very iffy territory to start adding years and numbers. Seems it generally leads to confusion, or misunderstanding. I would agree we are indeed given some specific time frames in scripture, but when it comes to adding the years of who might lived how long and so on, we can easily make boo boos. And I may be totally wrong to not pay more attention to more numbers.

tim_from_pa
Dec 18th 2011, 11:51 PM
I think I can shed some light on this. Essentially Matthew divides the genealogy into 3 parts, and each one has a beginning and end, so therefore a name is counted twice between each section (as if that section can stand by itself).

Abraham to David (highlight each name) is 14 names (generations)
David to Josias (Josiah) are 14 generations.
And Josias to Joseph, the "father" of Jesus are 14 generations, and the genealogy ends at Joseph, thus 40 actual names.

Jesus is not included because he was "of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. " This is not Jesus's blood genealogy, but legal.

If this is difficult to envision or accept, then consider a fence 39 yards long and a fence post at every yard (40 posts total).

If we decide to split the fence in 3 equal parts, then posts 1-14 would be the first section.
Posts 14-27 would be the middle section, and
posts 27-40 would be the end. So if any two sections would be taken down, there would be 14 posts nevertheless, and the same post would be the end posts dividing each section.

quiet dove
Dec 19th 2011, 12:31 AM
I think I can shed some light on this. Essentially Matthew divides the genealogy into 3 parts, and each one has a beginning and end, so therefore a name is counted twice between each section (as if that section can stand by itself).

Abraham to David (highlight each name) is 14 names (generations)
David to Josias (Josiah) are 14 generations.
And Josias to Joseph, the "father" of Jesus are 14 generations, and the genealogy ends at Joseph, thus 40 actual names.

Jesus is not included because he was "of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. " This is not Jesus's blood genealogy, but legal.

If this is difficult to envision or accept, then consider a fence 39 yards long and a fence post at every yard (40 posts total).

If we decide to split the fence in 3 equal parts, then posts 1-14 would be the first section.
Posts 14-27 would be the middle section, and
posts 27-40 would be the end. So if any two sections would be taken down, there would be 14 posts nevertheless, and the same post would be the end posts dividing each section.

Thanks tim, that does help...:)

PJW
Dec 19th 2011, 03:09 AM
Paul wrote, "Neither give heed to fables and ENDLESS GENEOLAGIES, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. ( I Tim 1:4)

quiet dove
Dec 19th 2011, 01:33 PM
Paul wrote, "Neither give heed to fables and ENDLESS GENEOLAGIES, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. ( I Tim 1:4)

I am doing a study, or sorta, on what people toss out as contradictions. I, of course, believe the Bible to be infallible. My understanding of it, on the other hand, no so much. :bounce:

tim_from_pa
Dec 19th 2011, 01:36 PM
Paul wrote, "Neither give heed to fables and ENDLESS GENEOLAGIES, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. ( I Tim 1:4)

So, tell me my friend. Is Matthew's genealogy a fable or an endless genealogy? How about the genealogies in Genesis? Are those fables or endless genealogies? How about Chronicles? Are they fables or endless genealogies?

You just effectively took a verse that applies to the monkeys and quoted it to the elephants. That's a way to sweep it under the rug when we simply want to avoid the issue.

DaleHensarling
Nov 28th 2013, 05:58 PM
The thread from Babylon to Jesus appears to be 13 generations, but actually fulfills a statement we find in Isaiah 53, and also in Acts 8, where the question is asked, "Who can declare his generation?" Jesus was, and is, and is to come. On earth, that would imply two physical generations, and not one. He was born and died (one generation), he arose and ascended, and will return to rule (2nd generation). When he rules, it will be for 1000 years (2nd generation) from Jerusalem, and then the Great White throne judgment and then ruling forever. This last phase is a sabbath generation (post Great White Throne).

Note in the passage in Matthew that there are then 42 generations. Let's do some math: 42 is 6 sets of 7. So, Jesus' reign completes that, but then transitions to the 'forever' seventh sabbath of peace from the New Jerusalem, and there is no end to that, so the 42 generation becomes eternal, and therefore, 'who can declare it?'

Interestingly, too, David's numerical value to his name is 14, so we are given three witnesses to Jesus' descendency from David just in the numeric representations.

There are several omitted generations in the text, and in the case of the four missing persons, we see that these were descendents of Ahab, and not listed purposefully by God in this list.

By then listing the names this way, we can form three sentences from the Hebrew meanings in each name, and each sentence declares God's plan of redemption in His Son.

The Bible is not in error.

Hope this helps.


Dale Hensarling
Pastor, Patterson Covenant Church, Patterson, CA