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Brits Van Wyk
Jan 10th 2012, 08:26 AM
I do not mean to address the "works vs grace" topic with this post. Rather, I wish to find reasons in support of the teaching of Grace. I hear so often that this type of teaching lures believers in to a dimension where righteous living is abandoned and a false freedom or lifestyle results. Is this true and have you encountered many believers that have "fallen back" once Grace is expounded to them?

I would be most interested to hear from our forum friends about the perceived dangers of this teaching (naturally, as in every "new" cycle of revelation, there will be some skew teachings emerging )

I offer Titus 2:11&12 - "grace teaches us....."

Lets chat about this.

MercyChild
Jan 10th 2012, 11:18 AM
Grace is God's gift to human kind, by calling us for salvation and sending Jesus to die in our place. Grace allows Christ's work to flow through us. It is our responsibility to continue our relationship with God, by striving to live according to His word.

Adstars
Jan 10th 2012, 11:57 AM
I do not mean to address the "works vs grace" topic with this post. Rather, I wish to find reasons in support of the teaching of Grace. I hear so often that this type of teaching lures believers in to a dimension where righteous living is abandoned and a false freedom or lifestyle results.

People who love what is Good and Hate what is evil do not use Grace as a license to sin. Rather Grace is what gives them hope because they are still carnal and fall into sin. If there are people who run to do sin they show they never had any love for the truth.


Is this true and have you encountered many believers that have "fallen back" once Grace is expounded to them?

There may be ones that do. But again did they love what is good and hate what is evil.

Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!


I would be most interested to hear from our forum friends about the perceived dangers of this teaching (naturally, as in every "new" cycle of revelation, there will be some skew teachings emerging )

There are no dangers for those being saved. It is the Good News that brings Hope and makes us realize that we are loved by God. It is the main message of the Gospel. It reveals Salvation.


I offer Titus 2:11&12 - "grace teaches us....."

Lets chat about this.

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Good scripture exhorting us to seek to do what is good and resist what is bad. But we are not saved by our efforts in this area. We are saved by Grace. Those who love the truth revealed by the Law are convicted to bring them to embrace Grace. Those who reject the Law and take joy in unrighteousness never see the need for Grace, they are offended by Grace or think it is foolishness.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

shepherdsword
Jan 10th 2012, 12:12 PM
There are many teachings that are dangerous. They distract us from the end result of what the Lord desires in our life. Love from a pure heart and faith that is authentic. The proponents of the greasy "grace" message that I hear so much talk about attempt to marginalize those that do not hold the OSAS position as having a works doctrine.However,grace is just as important in their message as the OSAS gospel. However,grace is defined differently and carries different connotations. OSAS equates grace with "God's unmerited favor". I agree that it is that just as I would agree that a car is also an automobile. However,I wouldn't say that defining a car as an automobile was a precise definition.I would have to go into detail and say "a car is a 4 wheeled vehicle with a combustion engine that takes you from place to place".So it is with grace,while the synonym "unmerited favor" does touch on what grace is,it does not precisely define it. Grace is the enabling power of God to perform his will on earth as it is in heaven.To walk in grace means that we are empowered to do his will by his Spirit and have not been left on our own to fulfill the Mosaic law.We participate in God's grace because we choose to,everyday. If we fail to achieve the desired result of the Father by the grace he has given us then we have received grace in vain just as Paul taught.Defining grace as unmerited favor that will keep you in union with Christ even if you die in sin is a dangerous teaching. However,I recognize that many of the OSAS camp love Jesus and walk with God continually,I find no fault with that. The danger comes when they teach that you cannot lose your "salvation" no matter what you do or how you die. I see this as grievous error and it is a teaching and concoction of men and not of the Spirit.

Brits Van Wyk
Jan 10th 2012, 12:58 PM
Hi Adstars

Rom 7 quoted ends with (vs 24 and 25 ) .....Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

In the past i have thought that Paul was schizophrenic.
I now understand that the condition he describes in the versus prior to this, come to and end by means of vs 24 &25.
In fact, I understand that, if Paul did not experience the "deliverance from this body of death", he continued without deliverance and thus unsaved ?!

So, that clears it up for me. I no longer believe that I am at "war" with my body members or old nature. ( under law, I tried..oi!, )
In fact I understand the scripture that better that says:
2 Cor 5:17 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.2 The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, l who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Darkness and light cannot reside in the same place.

Just my thoughts on that for now.

Love
Brits

Brits Van Wyk
Jan 10th 2012, 01:09 PM
Hi again Adstars


Good scripture exhorting us to seek to do what is good and resist what is bad. But we are not saved by our efforts in this area. We are saved by Grace. Those who love the truth revealed by the Law are convicted to bring them to embrace Grace. Those who reject the Law and take joy in unrighteousness never see the need for Grace, they are offended by Grace or think it is foolishness.

Well put ! thx. Just not entirely sure about the word "convicted" here. (perhaps my lack of the grammar skills). I tend to think of the HS revealing the "better option" and if then compared with the human status, kind of shows as the far superior option...leading to the desire to opt for the "better option" thus the change of mind without the condemnation/guilt but in the knowledge of acceptance, grace etc.

It will be quite interesting to discuss the magnitude and scope of Grace... perhaps in another tread.

Love
Brits