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Protective Angel
Jan 19th 2012, 01:17 PM
Still learning this bible wording.:hmm:

Rev 3:14 (King James) (Jesus said)
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things SAITH THE AMEN, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

OK. I may read this wrong and it sounds strange.
Some think Amen a faithful witness was there when God was created.

Please guide me here guys.:hmm:

Indueseason
Jan 19th 2012, 01:33 PM
14`And to the messenger of the assembly of the Laodiceans write: These things saith the Amen, the witness -- the faithful and true -- the chief of the creation of God;YLT

To me it is saying that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. It is agreeing with John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.



blessings to you :hug:

Saved7
Jan 19th 2012, 06:34 PM
Still learning this bible wording.:hmm:

Rev 3:14 (King James) (Jesus said)
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things SAITH THE AMEN, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

OK. I may read this wrong and it sounds strange.
Some think Amen a faithful witness was there when God was created.

Please guide me here guys.:hmm:

God wasn't created...God has always been, that's why He is God. He made all things. Jesus is God in the flesh...the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation.

NOt sure if that helps you.

Protective Angel
Jan 20th 2012, 12:18 AM
God wasn't created...God has always been, that's why He is God. He made all things. Jesus is God in the flesh...the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation.

NOt sure if that helps you.
So would it be the same to pray and say Jesus or God at the end of a prayer? :hmm:

Butch5
Jan 20th 2012, 12:25 AM
Still learning this bible wording.:hmm:

Rev 3:14 (King James) (Jesus said)
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things SAITH THE AMEN, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

OK. I may read this wrong and it sounds strange.
Some think Amen a faithful witness was there when God was created.

Please guide me here guys.:hmm:

Jesus created all things as per the Father's command. He is the "origin" of the creation of God because He is the one who created it.

Butch5
Jan 20th 2012, 12:30 AM
So would it be the same to pray and say Jesus or God at the end of a prayer? :hmm:

Jesus said to pray to the Father in His name. We are to pray to the Father with the authority given us by Jesus.

Protective Angel
Jan 20th 2012, 05:05 AM
Jesus said to pray to the Father in His name. We are to pray to the Father with the authority given us by Jesus.

His name being Amen?:confused

david
Jan 20th 2012, 05:48 AM
Obviously Jesus wasn't created, because he said before Abraham was, "I am." He was eternally existent. He also said he does not change (Heb 13:8).
However I do find evidence that may say that Jesus can be referred to as a creation, though not created. what do i mean? i mean that Jesus can be spoken of as "the work of God," although he had no beginning (cf. John 6:29). Since God never ceases to work (jn 5.17, cf. James 2:20, 26), this means Jesus is God's very work from eternity past to eternity future. Whenever God works, that's Jesus (cf. 1jn 5.3). God working is Jesus. And God never ceases to work. Because God works, he is evident: Jesus is the image of the invisible God (col 1.15).
the verse you wrote might be related to the following passage, where it says Jesus "was set up" and "was brought forth" from everlasting.
"Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills was I brought forth; While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, Nor the beginning of the dust of the world. When he established the heavens, I was there: When he set a circle upon the face of the deep, When he made firm the skies above, When the fountains of the deep became strong, When he gave to the sea its bound, That the waters should not transgress his commandment, When he marked out the foundations of the earth; Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him, Rejoicing in his habitable earth; And my delight was with the sons of men." Proverbs 8:22-31
In that passage, Jesus is also described to be a "master workman." Being the workman of God, the Father works through Jesus. Makes sense because it says "for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist (1Co 8:6)." Notice that from the father we are whereas through Jesus we are. God works through Jesus to bring about his creation to existence. Therefore, Jesus is God's worker. The Holy Spirit, on the other hand, is God's power or energy. The father is the planner, Jesus is the worker, and the Holy Spirit is the energy that empowers the worker to work. So if you want to make an analogy to, say, a tank, the Father would be the driver, Jesus would be the vehicle, and the Holy Spirit is the fuel and the gun's ammunition.

Indueseason
Jan 20th 2012, 12:38 PM
His name being Amen?:confused

The word amen is used in different ways in the bible. It can be used to show agreement and to emphasis the truth of what's being said. The Hebrew word, amen, means “surely, indeed, truly.” It derives from a root form, aman, which signifies “to be firm, steady, trustworthy, faithful” .

In Rev 3:14 it is used in two ways. The first is explained in the verse, Jesus is Amen, firm, steady, trustworthy and faithful. It is also being used to tell us that Jesus is God's amen. The fulfilment of the OT promises that the Saviour would come. Just like we end our prayer saying amen, God used His Son Jesus to be the final Word to all those promises! :pp

blessings to you :hug:

keck553
Jan 20th 2012, 07:25 PM
"Amen" is a hebrew word. Check out not just the strong's translation, but the ancient hebrew pictographs that form the word, and the answer will be right there, in perfect order.

Butch5
Jan 21st 2012, 12:32 AM
His name being Amen?:confused

Hi Angel,

No, His name is not Amen. Amen means, so let it be. As Christians weare authorized by Christ to approach the Father.

Saved7
Jan 21st 2012, 12:56 AM
So would it be the same to pray and say Jesus or God at the end of a prayer? :hmm:


Sometimes we will start prayers with "Holy Father" and end them "in your Holy Name" or some variation thereof. Other times, we will say in the Name of Jesus at the end....Sometimes we don't end it any particular way but amen. The thing about "praying in His Name" is not so much about what name you use or even the authority of that name; as it is knowing that Christ is your Saviour and God's only Begotten Son....but above and beyond this is doing anything in Jesus' Name is the equivalent of praying in accordance with the will of the Father, which was Jesus' one and only mission, to do the will of the Father. If you don't know if what you are praying is in accordance with His will, don't worry, God knows if it is or not and if it is, He will surely give a resounding yes; eventually when the time is right. If it is not, chances are you won't get an answer. So really praying in the Name has nothing to do with ending with In JESUS' Name so to speak, but it has to do with what we are praying for and who we are, and the purpose behind our prayer.
But the goal in prayer is more about getting to know God more so that you love HIm more and get to have more of the mind of Christ in you, so that you naturally pray in the will of God. There is sooooo very much more to this whole praying in His Name business than a lot of people really realize. Just know this, the goal of a Christian should be the same as the goal of Christ...the Son. To glorify the Father, for when He is glorified, Christ is glorified, and when He is glorified people believe and are saved...this is it, to be a true Child of God is to be like Christ was, totally set on glorifying the Father. Glorify God, seek to know what that means in your prayers then you will know how to pray. This is praying in His Name.