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View Full Version : Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books



Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 06:39 AM
The subject was not about salvation but an analogy was presented as an example.

The example was basically this... "I remember what I "felt" like when I accepted Jesus and was saved, so I know I am saved..."

The topic is about how many who go off of feelings and not knowledge will come to a point that they do not have understanding. So for this topic about Salvation... this is what is going through my head at 1:30AM while I do some homework.

I've met several Christians who I know are in Christ by the fruit God works through them and multiplies. Yet, they have periodically gone to the altar to rededicate themselves for Christ. Nothing changes in their life because they continue being who they are "in" Christ and while over the years, spiritual growth is evident... I have still witnessed them go to an altar call for those who want to accept Christ and they "rededicate" as they call it.

So... was the fact that they are going off of the "feeling" when they first accepted Christ a feeling they desire again? Or is there a space that is empty in the "knowledge" that by that very first acceptance of Christ... they will be saved?

I know they know about repenting and restoration and that is all that is needed if they were to rebel and stray off the path for a moment or even a period of time.

So... why a need to go rededicate themselves to Christ?

I'm tired :rolleyes:

jeffweeder
Feb 17th 2012, 07:17 AM
They acknowledge that they havent been perfect in running the race that is before us all. I can understand that all too well.
Much like Paul saying what a wretched man he was for not doing what he was supposed to do ...all of the time.
After every fall, one should get up and continue running the race ( rededicate). Its not a bad thing to rely on our mediator in repentance, find forgiveness and keep striving for the finish line.
Seems that it is something I have to do on a daily basis, im ashamed to say.

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 07:56 AM
Hooah, I understand the need to surrender mistakes and sin daily... but to reaccept Christ a couple times a year? Does a person who does this, do they "feel" that feeling when they first accepted with each rededication?

I know that when I accepted Christ it was more about the acknowledgement that Christ was now in me, I was now IN Christ. I don't ever need to acknowledge that ever again. When I accepted Christ back in 1995 I even called it "rededication" because as a child I had accepted Jesus as my Savior but I left faith and God fir a long time. During that time I then began to follow denominations based solely on doctrine, religion, tradition and rules and Jesus was still not in my life. I did however remember as a child, accepting Christ even though I did not understand fully what accepting Him was all about.

So, if a person does understand and has accepted Jesus as their Savior, why do it over and over, a few times a year when daily surrendering of sin and or full repentance of sin is all that is required because a person who is already in Christ is unchanged concerning being in Christ each time they decide to rededicate themselves.

Now if the purpose was maybe to dedicate themselves to draw in closer or be a more godly person in their walk with Jesus... that would be understandable.

jeffweeder
Feb 17th 2012, 08:28 AM
I know that when I accepted Christ it was more about the acknowledgement that Christ was now in me, I was now IN Christ. I don't ever need to acknowledge that ever again.

So, if a person does understand and has accepted Jesus as their Savior, why do it over and over, a few times a year when daily surrendering of sin and or full repentance of sin is all that is required because a person who is already in Christ is unchanged concerning being in Christ each time they decide to rededicate themselves.

.

I understand better where your coming from now...and i agree that that aspect is unneccessary.
One should rather believe that Christ will never forsake him after the first time, and if he does sin and repent, God will never let go of your hand. God doesnt change, we do.

MoreMercy
Feb 17th 2012, 10:16 AM
Howdy Slug1 you know me, here comes my brutal honesty or so called here "my unmerciful" honesty.


To prep what I want to share below I have to begin with this:

If you disagree, I am open to correction, I promise you.

I see what most of us call "accepting Christ"...
I see that term as our bible presents: as agreeing with God's word that Christ is who He claims to be, to me that is accepting Christ biblicaly.
Denominational definitions of "accepting Jesus" are for the followers/disciples of denominations.
Our bible's definition of "accepting Jesus" comes from Jesus Himself, and second witnessed to my His apostles.

Accepting or agreeing with God that Jesus the Christ is who He claimed to be is the function of "the call" just as John the baptist "called" from the wilderness: It is a call to repentance !
A call to repentance when you strip away all of the denominational additions/traditions added to it which babbles away the message of repentance from the message of "accepting to follow Christ"

When I was called it was not at an alter first but still I was called and I feel the need when the feeling comes over me (yes, the "feeling") a need to respond again, not counting or even conscious of the amount of times, I think the response for me anyways is dependent on my ear for the message heard that day causing me to respond to an unheard voice to repent of my fallen ways and re-dedicate myself because I do not always obediently follow His words after I have agreed and confessed that He is Lord of all.
...I and others who have never discussed what I am sharing with you now, they and I still respond to alter-calls.
I cannot speak for them but I do it as an act of repentance or re-commitment/re-dedication.

What I want to share is I do not believe the "call to repentance" saves, no matter where He calls from, the/His call to repent and follow Him does not save, friend.
So, I do not think it comes anything near to crucifying our Savior again, if that is what you are getting at ?
What can save us is His mercy to us after and how we respond to that "call" from that point on.

John the baptist was the trail blazer just prior to and on behalf of Christ's time and work on earth, his message was repentance. Please keep that in mind for a moment while I try to show where I am going with it.

1, The "call"

2, Acts of "repentance"

3, "Renewal and obedience" through and to His word, causing new confession and repentance of our newly made aware of sin (after the initial "call").

4, "Our salvation or restoration" is up to Him alone.

I learn more of Him (who He is) and have to accept that new revelation of Him sometimes daily. So, I need to "accept/agree with Him" of those new revelations each time, or I am gonna fall-away.
...I will take and will never stop taking the opportunity to do it at an alter-call publicly when I hear or see new revelations to myself from His words heard that day at that same alter !
(confess our faults one to another... sound familiar ?)

I said all that just to say that I see alter-calls as repentance and not a magical moment or instant salvation or a mysterious mind and character changing event that happens in that moment or twinkling of an eye. The call is to accept that Christ is who He claimed to be, and then from that point on to start reacting appropriately to that newly admitted or agreed upon fact.

The actual motion of walking toward the alter is a public confession of that.
To me it is also a quasi act of repentance, as is a public baptism.

Then as you already know there is more after the "call" and after "repentance"
We must learn from Him and then live obediently to what we learn from Him. (Or as He calls it: follow Him)

Then on that Great Day, and not at anytime before that Great Day, He/Jesus the Christ proclaims if we are God's child or if we were the devil's child.


Father bless those who look to you but have mercy on all of us to glorify your name.

Watchman
Feb 17th 2012, 12:52 PM
So... why a need to go rededicate themselves to Christ?
Could it be that, as their minds are being renewed, they interpret their growth as evidence of previous disloyalty to Christ? That would actually be the case, in part, but it is normal. Nobody is reborn as a spiritually mature saint. Could they be misinterpreting their previous level of immaturity as unfaithfulness, thus the need for rededication in their eyes?

W :)

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 01:55 PM
Could it be that, as their minds are being renewed, they interpret their growth as evidence of previous disloyalty to Christ? That would actually be the case, in part, but it is normal. Nobody is reborn as a spiritually mature saint. Could they be misinterpreting their previous level of immaturity as unfaithfulness, thus the need for rededication in their eyes?

W :)
Then why don't they do all that they initially and get baptized again each time also?

BrianW
Feb 17th 2012, 02:30 PM
Ah Psychology. I still have my old books and some papers and labs along with fond memories of driving those who thought to instruct me crazy. :) Even though I walked away from it I ended up being friends with the instructors I drove nuts but I made them work for it buddy.
Especially when I pointed out, repeatedly, that the forefathers of modern psychology were nuttier than their patients............

But that is not the question. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.


As you know when we are born of the flesh we are (metaphorically) a blank slate. An empty chalkboard (Heart and mind) that is written upon by our life experiences. In our formative years home, family, family friends and the events that take place are the chalk that squeaks things into our "existence" and begin to fill up that chalkboard.

These things are the foundations of not only our cognitive abilities but also how those cognitive abilities interrelate to our chaotic emotional tidal waves and everything (experience and education) that comes after our formative years is weighed and measured against the initial outline of our lives as it was written on our "Chalkboard" and the continuing formation of our "Will."

When we are born again we are born of the spirit. The chalkboard of our heart and mind is being rewritten by the Holy Spirit and we are made anew. Even so war of Spirit and flesh and a war of "Wills" begins.

A war between the will of God and our own will. When doing an alter call some submit their wills fully to God. Some submit some of their will and still attempt to retain a sense of self. Some have no idea why they feel a hole inside themselves. They feel that they haven't been filled to overflowing by the Spirit or that in their walk some has sloshed out over the sides of their cup and that they need an new infusion of the Water of Life.

What a mess of convoluted words and an inadequate attempt of explanation of my thoughts eh?

Far better to say the Holy Spirit guides and convicts us and teaches us. If some feel convicted to return to the alter it may just be the result of an inner struggle or an attempt of affirmation for them.

Or maybe I just haven't had enough coffee to wake up yet and I'm just rambling.....it's been known to happen.

MoreMercy
Feb 17th 2012, 02:44 PM
Then why don't they do all that they initially and get baptized again each time also?
I would, if it would not offend ones of such opinions as the quote above.


Father bless those who look to you, but have mercy on all of us to glorify your name.

keyzer soze
Feb 17th 2012, 02:46 PM
Slug1, my 2 cents is that we are humans of weak faith and filled with doubt. Thus there are times at church where we feel a renewed sense of believe/desire/closeness to God and want to come forward to embrace it and partially in hopes of holding onto that feeling only to have it slowly drift away because we are who we are, fleshly sinners who by nature drift.

When I start to get overly worried about this in my own life I look to Peter and "Doubting" Thomas for strength. They both walked hand in hand with Christ, watched him cure disease, make the blind see, even RAISE THE DEAD and both of them were filled with doubt and even DENIED Christ. Then Jesus gives Thomas exactly what Thomas needs to believe and hence why I always pray to God for more faith. My personal common cry to God is: "23 And Jesus said to him, “ ‘If You can?’ All things are possible to him who believes.” 24 Immediately the boy’s father cried out and said, “I do believe; help my unbelief.”

One theme that I love about the N.T. is Jesus's outward mercy when it comes to our inability to "easily" believe. It gives me hope!

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 03:43 PM
Ah Psychology. I still have my old books and some papers and labs along with fond memories of driving those who thought to instruct me crazy. :) Even though I walked away from it I ended up being friends with the instructors I drove nuts but I made them work for it buddy.
Especially when I pointed out, repeatedly, that the forefathers of modern psychology were nuttier than their patients............
Wow... so many good points in many posts. Gotta run in a few so I'll clear up this. The college is Christian and the class is a Bible based Psychology so I don't have the friction of trying to apply godly standards to secular ways of counseling.

However, the few psych classes that I have done in secular college, I too was great friends with the teachers and some students I drove nuts :lol:

I'll be back later... so many other posts I want to address.

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 03:50 PM
Slug1, my 2 cents is that we are humans of weak faith and filled with doubt. Thus there are times at church where we feel a renewed sense of believe/desire/closeness to God and want to come forward to embrace it and partially in hopes of holding onto that feeling only to have it slowly drift away because we are who we are, fleshly sinners who by nature drift.

When I start to get overly worried about this in my own life I look to Peter and "Doubting" Thomas for strength. They both walked hand in hand with Christ, watched him cure disease, make the blind see, even RAISE THE DEAD and both of them were filled with doubt and even DENIED Christ. Then Jesus gives Thomas exactly what Thomas needs to believe and hence why I always pray to God for more faith. My personal common cry to God is: "23 And Jesus said to him, “ ‘If You can?’ All things are possible to him who believes.” 24 Immediately the boy’s father cried out and said, “I do believe; help my unbelief.”

One theme that I love about the N.T. is Jesus's outward mercy when it comes to our inability to "easily" believe. It gives me hope!Real quick because I have to leave real soon...

Once a person has faith due to "hearing" the message of Christ (Word of God) and they have submitted themselves and believe, thus they will be saved... if faith is lacking, then instead of doing that believing ALL OVER again, then why don't they do what the man did from the example you raised, except pray... "Help my faith"?

I've counseled many and when a person's faith is lacking... I ask them what ministry they do for God? The answer is usually, "None". I ask if they have any faith and the answer is always, "yes!" I then ask them how they exercise that faith and then the time is spent figuring out what exercising faith is all about. The cliche... "step out in faith" is fully understood but the HOW is not.

I tell them to pray to God to lead them to the ministry and allow Him to WORK through them and they will begin to exercise faith and lack of faith will not bother them as much or even, not at all anymore.

fewarechosen
Feb 17th 2012, 06:01 PM
one thing i learned is dont claim you won the race till the race is over and the judge awards you.

God knows my fate, and he told me to run the race.

i find many like to find comfort for themselves in the thought of being saved, its also an easy sell for those who take pride in numbers.

i try to work out my salvation with fear and trembling.

Sojourner
Feb 17th 2012, 06:30 PM
Could be that they are simply expecting too much of themselves, and assume they are at fault. Maybe they unconsciously want to "reboot" spiritually, and start all over. I know when I see the example set by Jesus--or even by those who followed His example, such as Paul, I sometimes feel so miserably short of the level I think I should be at. I personally think we should rededicate ourselves daily just as we should die to our flesh nature daily. But, I don't get doing the whole baptism over, and all. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

keyzer soze
Feb 17th 2012, 06:52 PM
Real quick because I have to leave real soon...

Once a person has faith due to "hearing" the message of Christ (Word of God) and they have submitted themselves and believe, thus they will be saved... if faith is lacking, then instead of doing that believing ALL OVER again, then why don't they do what the man did from the example you raised, except pray... "Help my faith"?

I've counseled many and when a person's faith is lacking... I ask them what ministry they do for God? The answer is usually, "None". I ask if they have any faith and the answer is always, "yes!" I then ask them how they exercise that faith and then the time is spent figuring out what exercising faith is all about. The cliche... "step out in faith" is fully understood but the HOW is not.

I tell them to pray to God to lead them to the ministry and allow Him to WORK through them and they will begin to exercise faith and lack of faith will not bother them as much or even, not at all anymore.

Oh, maybe I misunderstood you above. I thought you described people who were serving and have fruit in their lives yet feel the need to re-commit themselves and I was trying to describe why I thought that might be happening. I agree with you that if they are not seeing the promise of Eph 2:10 in their life then one should not believe that Eph 2:8 ever took place. However, I thought we were discussing people who had proof of God's work in their life....

fewarechosen
Feb 17th 2012, 07:09 PM
to me its like carrying a cross.

if you have ever worked some hard labor and your exhausted and you drop some heavy stuff and your like man this is tough and i got more to do and its hot and exhausting. then you sorta set your resolve like ok im gonna lift this again and carry it over there and get this done and then do another.

the job never changed and you never "quit" but you may have stumbled and thought man am i even gonna be able to do this, but then you get up and do it cause thats your job.

so that "sort" of rededication i dont know how many times i do that a day. im a cross droppin fool.

i live in a fallen world and i feel me wanting to slide back into it almost every moment of every day, gravity drags me into the pit. the spirit wants to lift me out.

divaD
Feb 17th 2012, 07:43 PM
Then why don't they do all that they initially and get baptized again each time also?



I guess it pays to keep reading before responding to posts. As I was reading your 2nd post, the following came to mind, so I wrote it out in notepad like such.

"Depending on one's veiw of water baptism in general, do folks like you're describing feel the need to also be rebaptized when they rededicate their lives?"


So anyway, it looks like you're already pondering along those same lines as well.
But out curiosity I guess, does anyone know anyone who first got saved, was water baptized, then rededicated their life, and was water baptized yet again? And if not, I wonder why they feel the rededicating to be so necessary, but not the rebaptizing?

MoreMercy
Feb 17th 2012, 07:49 PM
I guess it pays to keep reading before responding to posts. As I was reading your 2nd post, the following came to mind, so I wrote it out in notepad like such.

"Depending on one's veiw of water baptism in general, do folks like you're describing feel the need to also be rebaptized when they rededicate their lives?"


So anyway, it looks like you're already pondering along those same lines as well.
But out curiosity I guess, does anyone know anyone who first got saved, was water baptized, then rededicated their life, and was water baptized yet again? And if not, I wonder why they feel the rededicating to be so necessary, but not the rebaptizing?
I think because of Christ teaching when one of His disciples refused Christ his Master, to wash his the disciple's feet when it came that disciples turn to be foot washed by Christ.

Christ taught that we are totally cleansed by His faith and work but we only still need our feet washed at times because of where we have to tread/live/operate.
...However, me personally would still revel in immersion baptism at any and every opportunity but for the offence it would cause to established and strongly held doctrine(s) taught by men.

Do I think I need baptized again: No... why? because Christ said so.
But that does not stop me from reveling in the thought nor quench my desire of being re-washed, re-refreshed and re-renewed by His all covering immersion-inviting faith and work done on our behalf.
(Even though baptism being symbolic) I love it in there, and would never come out if it were up to me.


Father bless those who look to you but have mercy on all of us to glorify your name.

keck553
Feb 17th 2012, 07:50 PM
It's not about feelings. Saving Grace is a promise given to those who repent and put their trust in Jesus, that He led a sinless life and He died for our sins and was risen. It's about trust and abidiing in Christ, not about feeeeeelings.

Although feelings are a secondary outcome of the whole deal.

fewarechosen
Feb 17th 2012, 08:05 PM
It's not about feelings. Saving Grace is a promise given to those who repent and put their trust in Jesus, that He led a sinless life and He died for our sins and was risen. It's about trust and abidiing in Christ, not about feeeeeelings.

Although feelings are a secondary outcome of the whole deal.

only part i differ on is i would say he gives grace to those he gives it to. we dont "earn" it by repenting and trusting.

saul did not repent and believe in Jesus then get grace.

grace came to him.

He loved us first.

i find many feel they repented, and many feel they have been saved. they call him lord.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

keck553
Feb 17th 2012, 08:12 PM
only part i differ on is i would say he gives grace to those he gives it to. we dont "earn" it by repenting and trusting.

I agree. Neither do we "earn" salvation by feelings. But that is not the question of the OP anyway, so it's a moot point.

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 08:27 PM
I guess it pays to keep reading before responding to posts. As I was reading your 2nd post, the following came to mind, so I wrote it out in notepad like such.

"Depending on one's veiw of water baptism in general, do folks like you're describing feel the need to also be rebaptized when they rededicate their lives?"


So anyway, it looks like you're already pondering along those same lines as well.
But out curiosity I guess, does anyone know anyone who first got saved, was water baptized, then rededicated their life, and was water baptized yet again? And if not, I wonder why they feel the rededicating to be so necessary, but not the rebaptizing?I know that I am a double dunked Christian. My mom had me baptized when I was about 8 months old and due to the doctrine I grew up with, I met the requirements of baptism. As I got older and began to get away from doctrine led churches and began to be led by God to Holy Spirit led churches... they preach God's Word according to the Bible, they didn't preach God's Word according to the church or denominational doctrines that are accepted and is WHAT such churches are "led" by.

In the church I presently serve God, the pastor and myself and 2 other elders baptized 32 people that first year I was an elder... I was also baptized that year at the age of 41. I had made the choice to believe unto Christ and I made the choice to be baptized as well under my free will choice.

Now... if I was the type to rededicate myself and rebelieve unto Christ then it sure seems the natural course of action would be to rebaptize as well. That my opinion but until a person joins the thread who happens to rededicate themselves to Christ because they feel they have fallen away (I assume) and chose not to do what the bible says to do (ask for forgiveness/repent) and go all the way through the process of accepting Christ again... it just doesn't make sense if they don't DO all that is usually done when a person accepts Christ.

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 08:32 PM
Oh, maybe I misunderstood you above. I thought you described people who were serving and have fruit in their lives yet feel the need to re-commit themselves and I was trying to describe why I thought that might be happening. I agree with you that if they are not seeing the promise of Eph 2:10 in their life then one should not believe that Eph 2:8 ever took place. However, I thought we were discussing people who had proof of God's work in their life....Yes, the OP is about Christians who are obviously "in" Christ.

I know that my faith has wavered... to the point I didn't even want to pray for myself because prayer wouldn't make a difference. That was HOW BAD the enemy had a hold on my mind. I believed there was NO POINT to praying.

Now... a Christian who has bore fruit and is clearly in Christ but has allowed the enemy a foothold in their mind and thought as I just quickly described... do you feel going to the altar and reaccepting Christ would break such oppression?

I don't think it would because on a spiritual level their condition DON'T CHANGE at all... they are still just as IN CHRIST as they were when they FIRST accepted Christ. That rededication don't increase or change the "amount" of Christ in them.

So... what does rededication do?

keck553
Feb 17th 2012, 08:45 PM
I know that I am a double dunked Christian. My mom had me baptized when I was about 8 months old and due to the doctrine I grew up with, I met the requirements of baptism. As I got older and began to get away from doctrine led churches and began to be led by God to Holy Spirit led churches... they preach God's Word according to the Bible, they didn't preach God's Word according to the church or denominational doctrines that are accepted and is WHAT such churches are "led" by.

In the church I presently serve God, the pastor and myself and 2 other elders baptized 32 people that first year I was an elder... I was also baptized that year at the age of 41. I had made the choice to believe unto Christ and I made the choice to be baptized as well under my free will choice.

Now... if I was the type to rededicate myself and rebelieve unto Christ then it sure seems the natural course of action would be to rebaptize as well. That my opinion but until a person joins the thread who happens to rededicate themselves to Christ because they feel they have fallen away (I assume) and chose not to do what the bible says to do (ask for forgiveness/repent) and go all the way through the process of accepting Christ again... it just doesn't make sense if they don't DO all that is usually done when a person accepts Christ.

The first dunking doesn't count. You weren't old enough to understand the Gospel, let alone commit yourself to it.

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 08:49 PM
The first dunking doesn't count. You weren't old enough to understand the Gospel.I know... but it wasn't until I wasn't bound in that denominational doctrine that I could see that it didn't count. Until then... I believed I was baptized and no one could tell me otherwise. Once free of the bondage to that doctrine and then serving God in a Spirit led (not doctrine led) church... then I was able to understand and then I WANTED to be baptized in obedience as I am led by God.

keck553
Feb 17th 2012, 08:58 PM
Yes, the OP is about Christians who are obviously "in" Christ.

I know that my faith has wavered... to the point I didn't even want to pray for myself because prayer wouldn't make a difference. That was HOW BAD the enemy had a hold on my mind. I believed there was NO POINT to praying.

Now... a Christian who has bore fruit and is clearly in Christ but has allowed the enemy a foothold in their mind and thought as I just quickly described... do you feel going to the altar and reaccepting Christ would break such oppression?

I don't think it would because on a spiritual level their condition DON'T CHANGE at all... they are still just as IN CHRIST as they were when they FIRST accepted Christ. That rededication don't increase or change the "amount" of Christ in them.

So... what does rededication do?

Interesting, and I believe we can all related to this. However, to expound on Jesus' teaching - He said what good is love if we love only our friends? So I think we can safely magnify that to "what good is praying if we only pray when we feel like praying?" Or "what good is faith if we have faith only when we feel like faith.

As we mature as believers and renew our minds through the reading of the Word of God and abiding in Christ, spirituial maturity develops a 'thick skin' that does pray when they don't feel like praying and hang on to faith in difficult or temptatious circumstances. Circumstances bless us two ways - first they test our faith, secondly they build our strength to persist in faithfulness. Both prepare us and strengthen us for circumstances that we would no be able to handle in a godly way had not God done this work in us in the first place.

Biblical faith an love do not produce fruit when we feel like espressing them. Faith and love bears fruit when we do not feel like expressing them, but we do anyway out of faithfulness and longsuffering.

episkopos
Feb 17th 2012, 09:01 PM
The subject was not about salvation but an analogy was presented as an example.

The example was basically this... "I remember what I "felt" like when I accepted Jesus and was saved, so I know I am saved..."

The topic is about how many who go off of feelings and not knowledge will come to a point that they do not have understanding. So for this topic about Salvation... this is what is going through my head at 1:30AM while I do some homework.

I've met several Christians who I know are in Christ by the fruit God works through them and multiplies. Yet, they have periodically gone to the altar to rededicate themselves for Christ. Nothing changes in their life because they continue being who they are "in" Christ and while over the years, spiritual growth is evident... I have still witnessed them go to an altar call for those who want to accept Christ and they "rededicate" as they call it.

So... was the fact that they are going off of the "feeling" when they first accepted Christ a feeling they desire again? Or is there a space that is empty in the "knowledge" that by that very first acceptance of Christ... they will be saved?

I know they know about repenting and restoration and that is all that is needed if they were to rebel and stray off the path for a moment or even a period of time.

So... why a need to go rededicate themselves to Christ?

I'm tired :rolleyes:


I think we need to daily rededicate ourselves to Christ. The door is small yes...but the way is the same width...narrow. So unless we keep the very same hunger for the Lord from the very beginning...then we are slowly straying.

It is like...why do so you see so many fit people jogging? ;)

keck553
Feb 17th 2012, 09:09 PM
I think we need to daily rededicate ourselves to Christ. The door is small yes...but the way is the same width...narrow. So unless we keep the very same hunger for the Lord from the very beginning...then we are slowly straying.

It is like...why do so you see so many fit people jogging? ;)


AMEN AMEN .

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 09:11 PM
I think we need to daily rededicate ourselves to Christ. The door is small yes...but the way is the same width...narrow. So unless we keep the very same hunger for the Lord from the very beginning...then we are slowly straying.

It is like...why do so you see so many fit people jogging? ;)So then we need to "define" the dedication you are speaking about compared to the type I'm talking about ;)

For me, what you are talking about is the daily prayer and Bible reading that Christians do to keep fellowship with and relationship WITH God. That time set aside during everyday to place oneself at the feet of God and "receive" from Him as He nourishes us through His Word and through communication with Him via prayer.

Does that "define" your use of the word... rededicate?

The use of the word rededicate for the purpose of THIS topic, is for those that probably DON'T do this because in speaking with a few who do this... they don't read or pray daily. Usually when life is rough do they get the Bible and read and when times are not going their way... they pray.

Then, periodically throughout the year they "rededicate" themselves to Christ as if they have to "rebelieve" unto Him.

Does this separate the two uses of the word, "rededicate" for the clarity of this topic?

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 09:25 PM
Biblical faith an love do not produce fruit when we feel like espressing them. Faith and love bears fruit when we do not feel like expressing them, but we do anyway out of faithfulness and longsuffering.This is a quotable quote!! :lol:

I agree, when a person is about to turn their back on all around them due to whatever ails them and then God prompts them anyway to do a good work and they do it... God glorifies Himself that much greater through the obedience.

Man... I can recall a day (about a year ago) I was thinking of excuses to bail out of Sunday service as we drove to church. My phone rings so I hand it to my wife. She talks with the pastor and she hangs up and bear in mind, she knows I'm upset. She informs me an emergency will take the pastor away from church because he's on the way to the hospital (injury) and I am to preach.

Does the word, "surrender" have true meaning that is fully understood? Well, surrender is an action that enables longsuffering.

God began to work in me and to this day, I still feel that what came out of my mouth that day as I preached still brings me to tears as God ministered to me and the entire church as that sermon came out of my mouth.

Just think... I was about to bail out that morning.

When I got with the pastor later and began to aligned the timing of when that oppression hit me (attack of the devil) and when the injury on his end occurred... they were aligned and we were able to see how the enemy was working against us.

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 09:27 PM
Interesting, and I believe we can all related to this. However, to expound on Jesus' teaching - He said what good is love if we love only our friends? So I think we can safely magnify that to "what good is praying if we only pray when we feel like praying?" Or "what good is faith if we have faith only when we feel like faith.

As we mature as believers and renew our minds through the reading of the Word of God and abiding in Christ, spirituial maturity develops a 'thick skin' that does pray when they don't feel like praying and hang on to faith in difficult or temptatious circumstances. Circumstances bless us two ways - first they test our faith, secondly they build our strength to persist in faithfulness. Both prepare us and strengthen us for circumstances that we would no be able to handle in a godly way had not God done this work in us in the first place.

Biblical faith an love do not produce fruit when we feel like espressing them. Faith and love bears fruit when we do not feel like expressing them, but we do anyway out of faithfulness and longsuffering.In rereading this... so in the use of the term "rededication" as I explained... would such a rededication a few times a year have bearing on developing maturity in Christ?

divaD
Feb 17th 2012, 09:52 PM
So then we need to "define" the dedication you are speaking about compared to the type I'm talking about ;)

For me, what you are talking about is the daily prayer and Bible reading that Christians do to keep fellowship with and relationship WITH God. That time set aside during everyday to place oneself at the feet of God and "receive" from Him as He nourishes us through His Word and through communication with Him via prayer.

Does that "define" your use of the word... rededicate?

The use of the word rededicate for the purpose of THIS topic, is for those that probably DON'T do this because in speaking with a few who do this... they don't read or pray daily. Usually when life is rough do they get the Bible and read and when times are not going their way... they pray.

Then, periodically throughout the year they "rededicate" themselves to Christ as if they have to "rebelieve" unto Him.

Does this separate the two uses of the word, "rededicate" for the clarity of this topic?


Would the rededicaters of this topic be more like backsliders then? Or maybe it includes them, but not only them?

Slug1
Feb 17th 2012, 10:15 PM
Would the rededicaters of this topic be more like backsliders then? Or maybe it includes them, but not only them?Good thought!

A person who is backsliden and who is "undiscipled"... and then due to a misunderstanding because of their undiscipled condition, they do what they call a "rededication" because they don't know any better?

keyzer soze
Feb 17th 2012, 10:48 PM
Yes, the OP is about Christians who are obviously "in" Christ.

I know that my faith has wavered... to the point I didn't even want to pray for myself because prayer wouldn't make a difference. That was HOW BAD the enemy had a hold on my mind. I believed there was NO POINT to praying.

Now... a Christian who has bore fruit and is clearly in Christ but has allowed the enemy a foothold in their mind and thought as I just quickly described... do you feel going to the altar and reaccepting Christ would break such oppression?

I don't think it would because on a spiritual level their condition DON'T CHANGE at all... they are still just as IN CHRIST as they were when they FIRST accepted Christ. That rededication don't increase or change the "amount" of Christ in them.

So... what does rededication do?

To that I don't know, I have never done it. I have only been a follower for a few years. I have known people to rededicate their lives to Christ and the one in particular that I know well even got re-baptized. The thought there was that she wasn't sure if indeed she was ever saved because of how far away from Christ she had drifted. So rather then dwell on saved or unsaved she simply dedicated herself to Christ and got baptized again. God knows for sure if it was a re-dedication or a first time dedication but rather then dwell on it she decided to leave that to God and do her best to follow and I commend her for that.

Come to think of it, I think all the re-dedicated people I know were "saved" at a young age and then in their adult life became convicted of their life and changed their ways. How that works with salvation I don't know as I never really thought about a meaningful relationship with Christ until around age 30.

Watchman
Feb 17th 2012, 11:08 PM
Then why don't they do all that they initially and get baptized again each time also?
Interesting question. Actually, I know folks who have been baptized multiple times...one guy has been water baptized 4 times.

Mark F
Feb 18th 2012, 12:42 AM
The subject was not about salvation but an analogy was presented as an example.

The example was basically this... "I remember what I "felt" like when I accepted Jesus and was saved, so I know I am saved..."

The topic is about how many who go off of feelings and not knowledge will come to a point that they do not have understanding. So for this topic about Salvation... this is what is going through my head at 1:30AM while I do some homework.
You answered the question right off the bat!! :pp
To say that we remember how we felt when we were saved and because of that we can know we are saved is not really a good idea you know? I agree with you exactly as you say.

I've met several Christians who I know are in Christ by the fruit God works through them and multiplies. Yet, they have periodically gone to the altar to rededicate themselves for Christ. Nothing changes in their life because they continue being who they are "in" Christ and while over the years, spiritual growth is evident... I have still witnessed them go to an altar call for those who want to accept Christ and they "rededicate" as they call it.

So... was the fact that they are going off of the "feeling" when they first accepted Christ a feeling they desire again? Or is there a space that is empty in the "knowledge" that by that very first acceptance of Christ... they will be saved?

I know they know about repenting and restoration and that is all that is needed if they were to rebel and stray off the path for a moment or even a period of time.

So... why a need to go rededicate themselves to Christ?

I'm tired :rolleyes:

So you say they have fruit, they are committed, you see no sin in thier lives or outward reason for repentance, yet they come forward at an altar call?

Maybe it's the culture we live in, the world continually tells us we are supposed to feel all giddy and such when we are in love, maybe it is along those lines? Maybe they think they need to do that because they think that the Lord will somehow be more pleased with them or that is a way to get closer to Him.

You know that we rest on the promises, not feelings.

Mark F
Feb 18th 2012, 12:56 AM
Yes, the OP is about Christians who are obviously "in" Christ.

I know that my faith has wavered... to the point I didn't even want to pray for myself because prayer wouldn't make a difference. That was HOW BAD the enemy had a hold on my mind. I believed there was NO POINT to praying.

Now... a Christian who has bore fruit and is clearly in Christ but has allowed the enemy a foothold in their mind and thought as I just quickly described... do you feel going to the altar and reaccepting Christ would break such oppression?

I don't think it would because on a spiritual level their condition DON'T CHANGE at all... they are still just as IN CHRIST as they were when they FIRST accepted Christ. That rededication don't increase or change the "amount" of Christ in them.

So... what does rededication do?
As far as salvation or security goes I would say nothing. For our personal confidence, it may be beneficial.

So then we need to "define" the dedication you are speaking about compared to the type I'm talking about ;)

For me, what you are talking about is the daily prayer and Bible reading that Christians do to keep fellowship with and relationship WITH God. That time set aside during everyday to place oneself at the feet of God and "receive" from Him as He nourishes us through His Word and through communication with Him via prayer.

Does that "define" your use of the word... rededicate?

The use of the word rededicate for the purpose of THIS topic, is for those that probably DON'T do this because in speaking with a few who do this... they don't read or pray daily. Usually when life is rough do they get the Bible and read and when times are not going their way... they pray.

Then, periodically throughout the year they "rededicate" themselves to Christ as if they have to "rebelieve" unto Him.

Does this separate the two uses of the word, "rededicate" for the clarity of this topic?
I was wondering about this early in the thread, this time in the Bible and prayer is like water and food, without it we are weak and cannot think clearly. If a person is not in the Bible daily, what do they expect? I see this in my own house, I have demonstrated this before my children thier whole lives and it does not just happen, they stil need to be "encouraged" to read thier Bible!

These rededicators, I suppose they attend regularly, yet no study and prayer--no wonder they crave the experience!!

Watchman
Feb 18th 2012, 01:08 AM
The topic is about how many who go off of feelings and not knowledge will come to a point that they do not have understanding...So... why a need to go rededicate themselves to Christ?

How does one differentiate between feelings (emotions) and knowledge and understanding when they are immature in their faith? What role does each of those play? And finally, what is the scriptural basis for rededications, since the term doesn't appear in scripture? (I have some comments about these questions, but will have to post them later. Just wanted to put them out there for discussion.)

W :)

episkopos
Feb 18th 2012, 01:10 AM
So then we need to "define" the dedication you are speaking about compared to the type I'm talking about ;)

For me, what you are talking about is the daily prayer and Bible reading that Christians do to keep fellowship with and relationship WITH God. That time set aside during everyday to place oneself at the feet of God and "receive" from Him as He nourishes us through His Word and through communication with Him via prayer.

Does that "define" your use of the word... rededicate?

The use of the word rededicate for the purpose of THIS topic, is for those that probably DON'T do this because in speaking with a few who do this... they don't read or pray daily. Usually when life is rough do they get the Bible and read and when times are not going their way... they pray.

Then, periodically throughout the year they "rededicate" themselves to Christ as if they have to "rebelieve" unto Him.

Does this separate the two uses of the word, "rededicate" for the clarity of this topic?

I see what you are saying. Perhaps it is more akin to an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. We may lead busy lives....but then we must make MORE time to spend in developing that intimate relationship with God. So the need for a re-dedication shows the lack of an ongoing dedication in the moment by moment walk of faith. I think we would all agree that the motives are pure and good....but the cares of this life often go underestimated as a source of drain to our walks of faith.