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VerticalReality
Mar 9th 2012, 04:38 PM
You often hear Romans 8:1 quoted regarding the fact that there is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus who do not walking according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

You will also hear people state that if a person does experience condemnation then this is from the devil and you should reject it. I'm not seeing that as being the context of Romans 8:1. The context to me is that it is the law that condemns because of the sin in the flesh. Therefore, we must walk in the Spirit, which is by faith, otherwise we will experience the condemnation of the law. In other words, by walking in the flesh we are under law and therefore guilty. By walking in the Spirit by faith, which is trusting in the word and works of Jesus, we will be free from the law of condemnation and therefore no longer guilty.

Thoughts?

Indueseason
Mar 9th 2012, 04:53 PM
It means what it says, there is no condemnation for those who walk after the Spirit.

Gal 5:

Life by the Spirit

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

If we walk in the Spirit we will deny the flesh, then the law will have no affect on us, therefore we can't be judged according to it. :pp Jesus came to save us from our sins, this is the very heart of Christianity, through Him we overcome! :pp

blessings to you :hug:

glad4mercy
Mar 9th 2012, 05:06 PM
You often hear Romans 8:1 quoted regarding the fact that there is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus who do not walking according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

You will also hear people state that if a person does experience condemnation then this is from the devil and you should reject it. I'm not seeing that as being the context of Romans 8:1. The context to me is that it is the law that condemns because of the sin in the flesh. Therefore, we must walk in the Spirit, which is by faith, otherwise we will experience the condemnation of the law. In other words, by walking in the flesh we are under law and therefore guilty. By walking in the Spirit by faith, which is trusting in the word and works of Jesus, we will be free from the law of condemnation and therefore no longer guilty.

Thoughts?

If you go a little further in Romans 8, it gives more clarification...

Romans 8: 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
and in Galatians Paul says...

Galatians 6:7- 7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
If we follow the flesh we will die, if we follow the Spirit we will live. If we sow to the flesh, we will reap corruption, if we sow the Spirit we will reap life everlasting. It is those who are led by the Spirit of God who are the sons of God.

1 John 3: 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

a. Because of Gods love we have become children of God.

b. We do not comprehend fully what that entails yet, but we know that when Jesus appears we will be like Him.

c. Everyone who possesses this hope is presently purifying themselves, just as Jesus is pure. ( I contend that we can only do this by walking in the Spirit and submitting to the Spirit's sanctifying Graces.

Jesus knows, gives eternal life to, and keeps His sheep. Yet who are His sheep. "my sheep listen to my voice, I know them, and they follow me...

Who are truly Jesus' disciples? Jesus said "if you continue in my word, then you are my disciples indeed. You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.

These passages make it clear what abiding "in Christ" means

VerticalReality
Mar 9th 2012, 05:31 PM
It means what it says, there is no condemnation for those who walk after the Spirit.

Gal 5:

Life by the Spirit

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

If we walk in the Spirit we will deny the flesh, then the law will have no affect on us, therefore we can't be judged according to it. :pp Jesus came to save us from our sins, this is the very heart of Christianity, through Him we overcome! :pp

blessings to you :hug:

Yes, so you agree, then, that it is the law that condemns here and not the devil? What I'm getting at here is that often when a person feels condemned you will hear people say, "That's just the devil condemning you and you don't have to take that from him!" Technically speaking, doesn't the passage give indication that, in fact, it is not the devil that is doing the condemning? Could it be that the condemnation is arising from the fact that said person is relying on their own performance as opposed to the grace of God to save them?

markedward
Mar 9th 2012, 05:45 PM
All the satan does is accuse of sin. It is the Law that condemns, and the Law belongs to God.

Indueseason
Mar 9th 2012, 05:47 PM
Yes, so you agree, then, that it is the law that condemns here and not the devil? What I'm getting at here is that often when a person feels condemned you will hear people say, "That's just the devil condemning you and you don't have to take that from him!" Technically speaking, doesn't the passage give indication that, in fact, it is not the devil that is doing the condemning? Could it be that the condemnation is arising from the fact that said person is relying on their own performance as opposed to the grace of God to save them?

Exactly!! :pp If we decide to walk in the flesh, then the law will condemn us. If we walk in His Spirit, we walk in freedom!!

blessings to you :hug:

chad
Mar 9th 2012, 09:04 PM
There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit.

Those in Christ are no longer under the written code of the law, but under Grace (Rom 3:21-25; Rom 5:1; 7:6).
Those in Christ are no longer condemned by sin, because in Christ we are forgiven of our sins and justified through his blood (Rom 5:9).
Those in Christ are no longer condemned by Death, because in Christ we associate with his death and also his resurrection (Rom6:2-8-17) .
Paul writes as sons of God, we have an obligation not to live by the flesh, but by the spirit of God (Rom8:12-17).


Maybe it is not the law that condemns but other Christians that condemn?




You often hear Romans 8:1 quoted regarding the fact that there is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus who do not walking according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

You will also hear people state that if a person does experience condemnation then this is from the devil and you should reject it. I'm not seeing that as being the context of Romans 8:1. The context to me is that it is the law that condemns because of the sin in the flesh. Therefore, we must walk in the Spirit, which is by faith, otherwise we will experience the condemnation of the law. In other words, by walking in the flesh we are under law and therefore guilty. By walking in the Spirit by faith, which is trusting in the word and works of Jesus, we will be free from the law of condemnation and therefore no longer guilty.

Thoughts?

glad4mercy
Mar 9th 2012, 09:12 PM
Exactly!! :pp If we decide to walk in the flesh, then the law will condemn us. If we walk in His Spirit, we walk in freedom!!

blessings to you :hug:

I agree with this, for that which is of the flesh is not of faith, and the just shall live by their faith.

glad4mercy
Mar 9th 2012, 09:13 PM
There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit.
Those in Christ are no longer under the written code of the law, but under Grace (Rom 3:21-25; Rom 5:1; 7:6).
Those in Christ are no longer condemned by sin, because in Christ we are forgiven of our sins and justified through his blood (Rom 5:9).
Those in Christ are no longer condemned by Death, because in Christ we associate with his death and also his resurrection (Rom6:2-8-17) .
Paul writes as sons of God, we have an obligation not to live by the flesh, but by the spirit of God (Rom8:12-17).


Maybe it is not the law that condemns but other Christians that condemn?

The key words are "in Christ". This is the hinge that opens the door of understanding. :) The first epistle of John has much to say about "in Christ" and "abiding in Christ". If you want to know what being in Christ means start there

chad
Mar 9th 2012, 09:22 PM
I thought I did mention that in my post?

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit.
1.Those in Christ are no longer under the written code of the law, but under Grace (Rom 3:21-25; Rom 5:1; 7:6).
2.Those in Christ are no longer condemned by sin, because in Christ we are forgiven of our sins and justified through his blood (Rom 5:9).
3.Those in Christ are no longer condemned by Death, because in Christ we associate with his death and also his resurrection (Rom6:2-8-17) .
Paul writes as sons of God, we have an obligation not to live by the flesh, but by the spirit of God (Rom8:12-17).




The key words are "in Christ". This is the hinge that opens the door of understanding. :) The first epistle of John has much to say about "in Christ" and "abiding in Christ". If you want to know what being in Christ means start there

Watchman
Mar 9th 2012, 09:31 PM
The law no longer condemns us...but the enemy will try!

glad4mercy
Mar 9th 2012, 09:39 PM
I thought I did mention that in my post?

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit.
1.Those in Christ are no longer under the written code of the law, but under Grace (Rom 3:21-25; Rom 5:1; 7:6).
2.Those in Christ are no longer condemned by sin, because in Christ we are forgiven of our sins and justified through his blood (Rom 5:9).
3.Those in Christ are no longer condemned by Death, because in Christ we associate with his death and also his resurrection (Rom6:2-8-17) .
Paul writes as sons of God, we have an obligation not to live by the flesh, but by the spirit of God (Rom8:12-17).

No denying brother. I was agreeing with you. I was just building on what you said by pointing to 1 John. The words "in Him" are repeated numerously in that little book. So to build on this, what does it mean to be "in Christ"?

chad
Mar 9th 2012, 09:40 PM
Ok here is the point I am trying to make. Do those in Christ …

Only get to repent of their sins only once, at repentance and baptism.

- If they walk in the flesh (through weakness) after repentace and sin, then they are no longer Christians?

- They were never Chrsitians in the first place?

- Do those in Christ loose their salvation, becuase they commit one sin in the flesh after repentance?


Where is the Grace of God? Where is the forgiveness? Where is the mercy of God? To me by what some believe, being under the Grace in Jesus is even harsher than the being under the written code of the law. At least under the written code, you could offer sacrifices for your sins every year. Where is the Grace and forgiveness under the new covenant in Christ?



The key words are "in Christ". This is the hinge that opens the door of understanding. :) The first epistle of John has much to say about "in Christ" and "abiding in Christ". If you want to know what being in Christ means start there

glad4mercy
Mar 9th 2012, 09:45 PM
The law no longer condemns us...but the enemy will try!

The law no longer condemns because we are in Christ Jesus and we are led by the Spirit of God. We have died to the Law so that we could be married to another, even the one who died for us and rose from the dead, so that we might bring forth fruit unto God. Christ has saved us, we have been engrafted into Him, He is our head and we obey Him in love. This is what it means to be "in Christ".

Everyone who is led by the Spirit of God is made free from the Law of sin and death by the Law of the Spirit of Life.

There are at least three different Laws mentioned in Romans 7-8. Law can mean a code of conduct or it can mean a principle, ( like the law of Gravity).

1. The Law of Moses. ( the minimum standard of righteousness) ( Romans 7:1) This is the bare minimum of what God requires. Without Christ, we are powerless to meet it's conditions , so Jesus stepped in and fulfilled all righteousness. This means He met it's righteous demands in our place, and He also raised the bar to new heights, ( ...you have heard that the Law has said...but I say...). Yet we can reach these heights by abiding in Christ and walking in the Spirit.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

2. The Law of sin and death in our members, ( a principle that drags us down like gravity) . ( Romans 7: 23; Romans 8: 2B) This is the principle in man that is bent on sin. If we trust our own strength we keep tumbling down. Christ died so this power could be nullified. ( Romans 8:3)

3. The Law of the Spirit of life. ( the life of Resurrection power) ( Romans 8:2a) This is the power of the Holy Spirit, ( the same power that raised Christ), that makes us free from the Law of sin and death. Are you ready to soar?

We who are in Christ are both enabled and called to walk in the Spirit's power.

Romans 8: 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

keck553
Mar 9th 2012, 10:00 PM
I hope we can keep prespective here. satan is not an omnicient or onmipresent being who can go around harrassing everyone. He's a created being with minyons who can only be at one place at a time.

If we're feeling guilt or condemnation, it's usually from the flesh, not satan. he's busy with more important people than us to harass.

glad4mercy
Mar 9th 2012, 10:06 PM
I hope we can keep prespective here. satan is not an omnicient or onmipresent being who can go around harrassing everyone. He's a created being with minyons who can only be at one place at a time.

If we're feeling guilt or condemnation, it's usually from the flesh, not satan. he's busy with more important people than us to harass.

Additionally, the acuser of the brethren has been cast down!!! ( Revelation 12:10) Next time the devil reminds you of your past, just remind him of his future!

glad4mercy
Mar 9th 2012, 10:17 PM
Only get to repent of their sins only once, at repentance and baptism.

Well if that's true I'm hellbound. Yet the Bible doesnt teach this. The Bible says that God heals backsliders, restores fellowship, and delights in showing mercy. I just don't want to backslide anymore. What a waste of time it is, and there is no reason why we ever should in the first place. More importantly than wasting time it breaks God's heart. If we love God, do we really want to break His heart?


If they walk in the flesh (through weakness) after repentace and sin, then they are no longer Christians?

Well if they stumble and fall, God can pick them up and restore them, but let's not see how much we can get away with, let's shoot for the stars.


They were never Chrsitians in the first place?

Sometimes people who fall relapse because they were never saved, and sometimes Christians stumble. The key is when you stumble, get back up again and get rid of whatever is causing you to stumble. Give no quarter to sin or the flesh. That's the only way to survive and thrive in Spiritual warfare.


Do those in Christ loose their salvation, becuase they commit one sin in the flesh after repentance?


Not if they confess and forsake their sins. Yet if a person sins presumptuously and willfully, they are demonstrating that they love that sin more than Christ, and that is a frightful thing. We need to be honest with ourselves and God. Usually we sin because we like the pleasure of sin. The sooner we realize this and stop making excuses, and come to grips on the seriousness of our transgressions, the sooner we can receive spiritual healing from the Sun of Righteousness .

percho
Mar 9th 2012, 10:25 PM
I agree with this, for that which is of the flesh is not of faith, and the just shall live by their faith.

Hab 2:4 behold ! she-is-made-presumptuous not she-is-upright soul-of·him in·him-----------Interlinear Hebrew Scripture4all.org
and·righteous-one in·faith-of·him he-shall-live
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul is lifted up is not upright in him:---------- KJV
but the just shall live by his faith.

Romans 3:10 KJV As it is written, There is none righteous, (righteous 41, just 33 times in AV) no, not one:

Who then are the just, the righteous? How is one justified, made righteous?

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood. or as verse 10 puts it: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son.

That is the faith that justified, made you righteous, but that does not give you life. Life can only come from life. 1 Cor 15:17,18 And if Christ be not raised, your faith vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Romans 5:10 much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) Begotten again unto a lively hope is because of the resurrection of Jesus for he that raised up Jesus will raise us up by Jesus.

The just shall live by his faith = Christ in you the hope of glory

Yes, No or Maybe?

glad4mercy
Mar 9th 2012, 10:33 PM
Romans 3:10 KJV As it is written, There is none righteous, (righteous 41, just 33 times in AV) no, not one:

Who then are the just, the righteous? How is one justified, made righteous?


2 Corinthians 5:21- For he has made him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Romans 5:10 much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) Begotten again unto a lively hope is because of the resurrection of Jesus for he that raised up Jesus will raise us up by Jesus.



Please see post 14. ;)


The just shall live by his faith = Christ in you the hope of glory

Yes, No or Maybe?

An emphatic YES

chad
Mar 9th 2012, 11:19 PM
Yes, I would have to agree with what you have posted, and would also like to add:

We are forgiven by the blood of Jesus. The difference between a Christian sinning and a (non Christian) sinner sinning is that we have been forgiven through the blood of Jesus. It is not that Christians can no longer sin, but we are forgiven of our sins and our sins are remembered no more, because of the Grace we have in Christ Jesus (Heb 8:7-13, Heb 10:15-18). Non-Christians who have not repented of their sin (Are still in their sins), that is the difference between a Christian sinning and a sinner sinning (Col 2:13).

We are no longer under the written code, but under the law of the spirit. For writes…I will write my laws on their hearts and minds (Heb 8:10; , Heb 10:15-18).

But because we are not under the written code (Rom 7:6-7, Gal 3:25, Col 2:13-15), Paul writes that it does not give us free will to sin or live/indulge life in the flesh, but we have an obligation as sons of God, to live by the spirit and not of the flesh (Rom 8:12). Paul writes that we died to the law so that we may produce fruit to God (Rom 7:4). That is the fruit of the spirit (Gal 5:16-22) and not the works of the flesh (Gal 5:19).




Well if that's true I'm hellbound. Yet the Bible doesnt teach this. The Bible says that God heals backsliders, restores fellowship, and delights in showing mercy. I just don't want to backslide anymore. What a waste of time it is, and there is no reason why we ever should in the first place. More importantly than wasting time it breaks God's heart. If we love God, do we really want to break His heart?



Well if they stumble and fall, God can pick them up and restore them, but let's not see how much we can get away with, let's shoot for the stars.



Sometimes people who fall relapse because they were never saved, and sometimes Christians stumble. The key is when you stumble, get back up again and get rid of whatever is causing you to stumble. Give no quarter to sin or the flesh. That's the only way to survive and thrive in Spiritual warfare.



Not if they confess and forsake their sins. Yet if a person sins presumptuously and willfully, they are demonstrating that they love that sin more than Christ, and that is a frightful thing. We need to be honest with ourselves and God. Usually we sin because we like the pleasure of sin. The sooner we realize this and stop making excuses, and come to grips on the seriousness of our transgressions, the sooner we can receive spiritual healing from the Sun of Righteousness .

episkopos
Mar 10th 2012, 12:09 AM
Jesus Christ is located in Zion. We are safe when we abide in Him...WHERE HE IS. We are not safe by merely joining a church.


1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

percho
Mar 10th 2012, 04:58 AM
2 Corinthians 5:21- For he has made him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.



Please see post 14. ;)



An emphatic YES

Who are kept by the power of God (the Holy Spirit) through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. And we have that power through the resurrection of Jesus or as better said in Titus:
by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Amen my brother.

glad4mercy
Mar 10th 2012, 02:03 PM
Who are kept by the power of God

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

glad4mercy
Mar 10th 2012, 02:12 PM
Yes, I would have to agree with what you have posted, and would also like to add:

We are forgiven by the blood of Jesus. The difference between a Christian sinning and a (non Christian) sinner sinning is that we have been forgiven through the blood of Jesus. It is not that Christians can no longer sin, but we are forgiven of our sins and our sins are remembered no more, because of the Grace we have in Christ Jesus (Heb 8:7-13, Heb 10:15-18). Non-Christians who have not repented of their sin (Are still in their sins), that is the difference between a Christian sinning and a sinner sinning (Col 2:13).

We are no longer under the written code, but under the law of the spirit. For writes…I will write my laws on their hearts and minds (Heb 8:10; , Heb 10:15-18).

But because we are not under the written code (Rom 7:6-7, Gal 3:25, Col 2:13-15), Paul writes that it does not give us free will to sin or live/indulge life in the flesh, but we have an obligation as sons of God, to live by the spirit and not of the flesh (Rom 8:12). Paul writes that we died to the law so that we may produce fruit to God (Rom 7:4). That is the fruit of the spirit (Gal 5:16-22) and not the works of the flesh (Gal 5:19).

Good post. We are in basic agreement. I will add that some Christians emphasize justification, ( which is certainly important), but they underemphasize sanctification. When you teach justification but ignore the Spirit's work of sanctification, ( not saying you do, I'm speaking in general terms), and ignore or downplay the Spirit's work in making us holy in position and practice, you sometimes end up with a lot of sinning Christians.

Even though gratitude is a sufficient motive and impetus for holiness, people tend to teach that the only difference between a Christian and a sinner is the Christian is forgiven, but this statement leaves out the whole issue of sanctification and personal holiness. I know what you meant by Christians being forgiven sinners, but some people carry that too far.

When you teach salvation in its fullness, you get Christians who while they are not yet sinless, they are striving for perfection, and while yet imperfect, they are running hard in the right direction, not just sitting still or idly strolling the path. Additionally, when you teach sanctification as primarily a work of the Spirit, ( we do have our part), you help people understand that practical holiness is not obtained by human will by itself or our own strength or might, but "by my Spirit says the Lord."

Running fast as I can After elusive perfection.
No I'm not there yet,But sure I'm in the right direction.
'cause I see me at the end And I look glorified.
Justified safe inside,So I seek to be sanctified

Supertones "In Between"

Noeb
Mar 10th 2012, 06:30 PM
Yes, so you agree, then, that it is the law that condemns here and not the devil? What I'm getting at here is that often when a person feels condemned you will hear people say, "That's just the devil condemning you and you don't have to take that from him!" Technically speaking, doesn't the passage give indication that, in fact, it is not the devil that is doing the condemning? Could it be that the condemnation is arising from the fact that said person is relying on their own performance as opposed to the grace of God to save them?I agree and this also applies to us as sinners before we are born again when we feels guilt (as a result of judgement which is what condemnation means) as a result of sinning. No one will be able to say, I did not know.

chad
Mar 10th 2012, 09:23 PM
Agreed. To add on to what you have already posted. At repentance and baptism we are justified, but that is only the start of the journey not the end. After walking in the flesh, God desires us to move away from that nature of our former lives towards Godliness.

We do indeed need to make an effort, but nothing beyond what we can do by ourselves, but with God, through the Holy Spirit. We could think of Justification (repentance and baptism) not as the end of the journey, but only the start of a life long journey. As we learn to live life in the spirit, the holy spirit will lead us on to Godliness, bearing fruit for God.

Paul encourages us all, that although we have been justified and set free, not to use this freedom to live a life in the flesh, but we have an obligation to head towards the right direction (Godliness), through the Holy Spirit. And as we do, the former ways of our old lives will be replaced through the renewing of our minds and the work of the Holy Spirit.

Sometimes, things we struggle with in the flesh are delivered instantaneously, other times it takes years of working on, but in Gods time, through Gods Grace and patience, we can overcome.




Good post. We are in basic agreement. I will add that some Christians emphasize justification, ( which is certainly important), but they underemphasize sanctification. When you teach justification but ignore the Spirit's work of sanctification, ( not saying you do, I'm speaking in general terms), and ignore or downplay the Spirit's work in making us holy in position and practice, you sometimes end up with a lot of sinning Christians.

Even though gratitude is a sufficient motive and impetus for holiness, people tend to teach that the only difference between a Christian and a sinner is the Christian is forgiven, but this statement leaves out the whole issue of sanctification and personal holiness. I know what you meant by Christians being forgiven sinners, but some people carry that too far.

When you teach salvation in its fullness, you get Christians who while they are not yet sinless, they are striving for perfection, and while yet imperfect, they are running hard in the right direction, not just sitting still or idly strolling the path. Additionally, when you teach sanctification as primarily a work of the Spirit, ( we do have our part), you help people understand that practical holiness is not obtained by human will by itself or our own strength or might, but "by my Spirit says the Lord."

Running fast as I can After elusive perfection.
No I'm not there yet,But sure I'm in the right direction.
'cause I see me at the end And I look glorified.
Justified safe inside,So I seek to be sanctified

Supertones "In Between"

glad4mercy
Mar 11th 2012, 02:30 AM
Agreed. To add on to what you have already posted. At repentance and baptism we are justified, but that is only the start of the journey not the end. After walking in the flesh, God desires us to move away from that nature of our former lives towards Godliness.

We do indeed need to make an effort, but nothing beyond what we can do by ourselves, but with God, through the Holy Spirit. We could think of Justification (repentance and baptism) not as the end of the journey, but only the start of a life long journey. As we learn to live life in the spirit, the holy spirit will lead us on to Godliness, bearing fruit for God.

Paul encourages us all, that although we have been justified and set free, not to use this freedom to live a life in the flesh, but we have an obligation to head towards the right direction (Godliness), through the Holy Spirit. And as we do, the former ways of our old lives will be replaced through the renewing of our minds and the work of the Holy Spirit.

Sometimes, things we struggle with in the flesh are delivered instantaneously, other times it takes years of working on, but in Gods time, through Gods Grace and patience, we can overcome.

Great post!! So as long as we abide in Christ through faith and walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh, there is no condemnation for us, even though we are not yet perfect. Christ was made to be sin for us so that we could become the righteousness of God in Him. First we are instantly made righteous in position before God through Justification, we are set apart for God in initial sanctification, and then we progressively are sanctified as we work out what God works in us.

RollTide21
Mar 13th 2012, 05:12 PM
Sometimes people who fall relapse because they were never saved, and sometimes Christians stumble. The key is when you stumble, get back up again and get rid of whatever is causing you to stumble. Give no quarter to sin or the flesh. That's the only way to survive and thrive in Spiritual warfare.

Don't forget about the Discipline of God. He knows our hearts and understands that there is conflict. He knows what discipline we need in order to bring us to a state of brokenness that will facilitate His Restoration.