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vinsight4u8
Jun 21st 2012, 01:12 PM
John was made to scramble the events around.

He turned part of Revelation into the /mystery of God.


hide it
make it obscure

Ta-An
Jun 22nd 2012, 04:29 PM
Read the Book of Isaiah together with the Book of Revelation :idea:

ross3421
Jun 24th 2012, 05:49 AM
Re 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
Re 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.


The seven thunders were about to utter the names written in the book but God would not yet allow it.......it was not yet time.

Stormcrow
Jun 24th 2012, 08:44 AM
When the seven peals of thunder had spoken, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Seal up the things which the seven peals of thunder have spoken and do not write them." Revelation 10:4 (NASB)

This is a reference to the mystery of the gospel that had yet to be revealed. It's a recap of the events leading to Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension and the coming of the Holy Spirit: all things associated with His first coming. (He walks the reader back the same way in chapter 12, too.) The context for understanding this is in the next passage:

Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets. Revelation 10:5-7 (NASB)

Keep that phrase "mystery of God" in mind. So I know what you're thinking, "how do we really know for sure this is talking about the gospel?

The answer is here:

Then the voice which I heard from heaven, I heard again speaking with me, and saying, "Go, take the book which is open in the hand of the angel who stands on the sea and on the land." So I went to the angel, telling him to give me the little book. And he *said to me, "Take it and eat it; it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey." I took the little book out of the angel's hand and ate it, and in my mouth it was sweet as honey; and when I had eaten it, my stomach was made bitter. And they *said to me, "You must prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and kings." Revelation 10:8-11 (NASB)

(Follow the bread crumbs with me here.) This reference to eating the scroll and prophesying is taken directly from the book of Ezekiel:

Then He said to me, "Son of man, eat what you find; eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel." So I opened my mouth, and He fed me this scroll. He said to me, "Son of man, feed your stomach and fill your body with this scroll which I am giving you." Then I ate it, and it was sweet as honey in my mouth. Then He said to me, "Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them. Ezekiel 3:1-4 (NASB)

The clear allusion John is making in reference to Ezekiel is the preaching of the gospel to the House of Israel! What did Christ tell the twelve when He sent them out?

These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' Matthew 10:5-7 (NASB)

John was one of the disciples/apostles sent with the great commission to proclaim the gospel first in Jerusalem, then in Judea (these comprising the "House of Israel"), then in Samaria and then to the uttermost parts of the earth!

but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth." Acts 1:8 (NASB)

Seeing a pattern emerging here? The voice of the seven thunders was the gospel of Christ that was not yet ready to go out because the Holy Spirit had not yet come. But when it did, what happened?

The gospel was preached throughout the whole world bringing Jew and Gentile alike into His kingdom!

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. Romans 1:8 (NASB)

because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth; Colossians 1:5-6 (NASB)

if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. Colossians 1:23 (NASB)

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)

Finally, remember that phrase "mystery of God" John uses in Revelation 10? Paul uses it, too, in reference to...what?

The gospel!

Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; Romans 16:25-26 (NASB)

To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, Ephesians 3:8-11 (NASB)

In closing, the voice of the seven thunders is the mystery of the gospel which was being revealed through the apostles and their churches by the power of the Holy Spirit; work which was bringing thousands of Jews and Gentiles alike into the kingdom of Christ!

The seventh angel that was about to sound in Rev.10:7 signifying that Christ had made the ultimate sacrifice, sounds in Rev.11 showing us Christ on the throne of heaven at the right hand of the Father and at the head of His church!

Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever." Revelation 11:15 (NASB)

That's what the voice of the seven thunders is all about, IMHO.

Raybob
Jun 25th 2012, 08:12 AM
Re 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
Re 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.


The seven thunders were about to utter the names written in the book but God would not yet allow it.......it was not yet time.

The 7 thunders did utter something. John was told not to write about what was uttered. We can't know what they uttered, but we do know the very next thing John writes about is when the final trumpet sounds, and time as we know it, ends (time no longer) and eternity finishes out.

And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
(Rev 10:5-7)

dancedwithdolphin
Aug 5th 2012, 06:02 AM
You know there are still several things that are still a mystery from the old testiment; still to be fulfilled. I find it interesting that it is "seven thunders" just like 7 bowls and 7 trumpets.

Some of the mysteries that I find interesting: The trees from Ez. that have 12 different kinds of fruit, and its leaves are used for the healing of the nations. The Dead Sea coming back to life and fishermen are drying their nets on its banks. From Isaiah, it speaks of people living long again like before the flood; what is going to happen to cause this.

I mean since it doesnt say what the seven thunders were revealing, we can only speculate. There is so much more yet to come, and very exciting stuff.

Raybob
Aug 6th 2012, 06:16 AM
You know there are still several things that are still a mystery from the old testiment; still to be fulfilled. I find it interesting that it is "seven thunders" just like 7 bowls and 7 trumpets.

Some of the mysteries that I find interesting: The trees from Ez. that have 12 different kinds of fruit, and its leaves are used for the healing of the nations. ..


Do you mean this passage?

And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
(Eze 47:12)

I personally see this as fulfilled in the spiritual Kingdom, right now, ever since the cross. I see this as 'poetic symbolism' by God, of things in the spirit world. The 'river' here is the water that causes one to never thirst, from the Lord Himself. The fruit is the spiritual 'meat', the Holy Spirit guiding us as we walk each day. We can always call on Him and He will always supply us new fruit.

That's how I see it. Many may disagree. ;)

dancedwithdolphin
Aug 7th 2012, 05:46 AM
Revelation 22:1 Then the angel showed me a river with the water of life, clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 It flowed down the center of the main street. On each side of the river grew a tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit,[a] with a fresh crop each month. The leaves were used for medicine to heal the nations.

3 No longer will there be a curse upon anything. For the throne of God and of the Lamb will be there, and his servants will worship him. 4 And they will see his face, and his name will be written on their foreheads. 5 And there will be no night there—no need for lamps or sun—for the Lord God will shine on them. And they will reign forever and ever.

6 Then the angel said to me, “Everything you have heard and seen is trustworthy and true. The Lord God, who inspires his prophets,[b] has sent his angel to tell his servants what will happen soon.[c]”


I find it interesting that Revelation and Ezekiel's Temple sound so much alike. The water flowing from the temple mount to the dead sea, and in revelation it speaks of the water flowing from the throne of God.
This water is real holy water. I too can see both spiritual implications and physical.

Back the first time I looked into the Dead Sea coming back to life, I found out Egypt and Israel were going to create something called the Dead-Red. Trying to bring the water back to life by man made means. Now we can read scriptures and see that isnt how it was going to happen.

vinsight4u8
Aug 9th 2012, 11:32 PM
time no longer

means

As to the mystery of God section.

But John ate a little book section. This is why we get more information that became chapters 16-22.
John was told not to seal those sayings.

Only the middle part of Rev. was jumbled.
Reason?
It was not set to occur in John's time.

John was not allowed to write that the seven thunders utterings let him know to seal that part of Revelation. His readers would have to discover that when the time came to understand it.

Rev. 1:3
"...keep those things which are written..."

Rev. 20:10
"...seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book..."

Rev. 20:10 is linking back as to the book John ate as to he had more to prophesy.

But John was made to jumble - seal the middle or so sections of Revelation.

vinsight4u8
Aug 9th 2012, 11:36 PM
The mystery of God section links back to Deuteronomy as how God would end things against Israel early.

God would call back some of the punishment part.
He would repent of some of the evil that was to come during the tribulation time.

vinsight4u8
Aug 9th 2012, 11:38 PM
Rev. is jumbled on purpose.

This is why Rev. 8:2 has the seven angels, whereas Rev. 15:1 is their intro point.

Old man
Aug 10th 2012, 05:15 AM
Rev. is jumbled on purpose.

This is why Rev. 8:2 has the seven angels, whereas Rev. 15:1 is their intro point.

Why do you assume that the two groups of seven angels are the same seven angels? Couldn't they be two different set of seven angels? :hmm:

vinsight4u8
Aug 12th 2012, 01:28 PM
Why do you assume that the two groups of seven angels are the same seven angels? Couldn't they be two different set of seven angels? :hmm:


Because John tells us when he sees a another of a subject.

Rev. 15:1
"And I saw another sign in heaven..."

12:3
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven..."


Also Rev. 15 had to occur before the things were shown in chapter 11, as John did not see the ark at first. John was shown the first temple opening view in chapter 15.


"And the seven angels came out of the temple..."
This is the first time that John saw angels come from the temple in heaven.

Rev. 14:17
"And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven..."

Rev. 11 refers to a time when the kingdom came, yet Rev. 12 was shown to John before the kingdom came.

12:1
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven..."

v 10
"...the kingdom of our God..."
This is shown to follow the time of Satan's wrath.

Yet, Rev. 11:15 has "...The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord..."

vinsight4u8
Aug 12th 2012, 01:41 PM
Re 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
Re 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.


The seven thunders were about to utter the names written in the book but God would not yet allow it.......it was not yet time.

John was only going to write down the parts that will take place. The book of life was not yet opened. The OT shows that in the end there will come a time when God will call back some of the punishment that was to occur against Israel. God will repent of some of the judgment part.

Deuteronomy 32:36
"...and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone..."

vinsight4u8
Aug 12th 2012, 04:44 PM
John ate the liitle book to prophesy later (chapters 16-22) which are not part of the mystery of God.
The mystery of God ends with the 7th trumpet.
Rev. 22 goes clear in time past the new heaven and new earth.
As John nears the end of the little book revelations, he is told not to seal those sayings.
as - not to make them hidden or obscure

vinsight4u8
Aug 12th 2012, 05:28 PM
Babylon comes in remembrance twice. So, she will get the vials on her for two rounds.

first time
as the seven full vials

second time
as the seven last plagues (vials refilled)

These are the plagues that the end of Rev. warns about,

"...add unto him the plagues that are written in this book."
These are the plagues of the vials full that were written of in the little book that John ate. This eaten book then caused him to have more to prophesy (warn of).

vinsight4u8
Aug 12th 2012, 06:27 PM
Rev. 11 ends showing that the next set of plagues will end with great hail. So, it is revealing that the vials full will come soon.

JudaicChristian
Sep 3rd 2012, 05:30 AM
Revelation 19:6
Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Halleluyah!

alishaba
Sep 8th 2012, 04:42 PM
On the question of the Seven Thunders in Rev 10:3-4, another event in the Bible should be included.

When Paul describes his visit to heaven in II Corinthians 12:1-4, he says that he "heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell (NIV)."

When people are taken up into heaven, God does not allow them to tell about everything they hear. What the Seven Thunders spoke may or may not have anything to do with End Times prophecy. We really do not know because God did not allow it to be told about.

vinsight4u8
Sep 27th 2012, 04:17 PM
John could not write out the seven thunders words as at the end God will repent of some of the evil that was to come. Just ahead of the 7th trumpet time, part of the evil was called back.
This has been foretold since Deuteronomy, as to God would repent of the evil.

This is what is meant by "finished as he hath declared to the prophets".

in the manner -

It also could not be written, it seems, as John was made to mess up the events that had been revealed -to make "the mystery of God".

When the 14 plagues later come from the seven vials - their part is not included in the mystery of God section.
Why is that?
Because John was told that the mystery of God ends with the start of the 7th angel.
"when he shall begin to sound"