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Seagull
Jul 3rd 2012, 04:13 PM
A couple of weeks ago, my dad died. I don't feel sad about it and
to be honest I don't really care. He was a very mean, abusive, self centered man, who
had no use for God.

My question is, where do the dead go, the unbelievers?
I have seen different answers to this question.
Do they go right to the burning fires of hell?
Do they go to some place set aside until the final judgement?
Do they go right to heaven and then sent to wherever after judgement?

nzyr
Jul 3rd 2012, 04:19 PM
I believe Christians go to paradise when they die.

Eyelog
Jul 3rd 2012, 05:31 PM
A couple of weeks ago, my dad died. I don't feel sad about it and
to be honest I don't really care. He was a very mean, abusive, self centered man, who
had no use for God.

My question is, where do the dead go, the unbelievers?
I have seen different answers to this question.
Do they go right to the burning fires of hell?
Do they go to some place set aside until the final judgement?
Do they go right to heaven and then sent to wherever after judgement?

Hi, Seagull. I really like your username and your avatar. Very refreshing. :)

Well, I think that during this Age, unbelievers are in Hades, and believers are in what Jesus called "the Bossom of Abraham," which as Nzyr points out, can be called paradise. There is a great chasm between the two, and no one can pass over from one side to the other. Hades may be an inclusive term, including paradise, which would not contradict this. But those on the other side of paradise are held in flames and torment and misery.

When Jesus returns, the dead in Christ (believers) will be resurrected and join Him in His kingdom. After the millenial kingdom, they will go on into eternity future with Him.

When the millenial kingdom ends, then those who were unbelievers in this lifetime will be resurrected bodily and judged at the great white throne judgment, and based on their deeds in this lifetime, they will be punished. They will be thrown, body and soul, into the lake of fire, which is called the second death, and is called Hell, by Jesus.


Here's some helpful terminology:

• Hades used instead of Gehenna in Greek Gehenna in Greek for Hell
• Sheol OT correlate to hades
• Tartarus -- tartaroo Cast into hell
• Abyss - NT Abussos
• T@howm OT for Abyss
Hell -- Geenna Gehenna

• Matthew 5:22 NIV
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Read Matthew 5 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Matthew 5:29 NIV
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Read Matthew 5 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Matthew 5:30 NIV
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Read Matthew 5 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Matthew 10:28 NIV
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Read Matthew 10 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Matthew 18:9 NIV
And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Read Matthew 18 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Matthew 23:15 NIV
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Read Matthew 23 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Matthew 23:33 NIV
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Read Matthew 23 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Mark 9:43 NIV
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Read Mark 9 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Mark 9:45 NIV
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
Read Mark 9 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Mark 9:47 NIV
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
Read Mark 9 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Luke 12:5 NIV
But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.
Read Luke 12 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• Luke 16:23 NIV
In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Read Luke 16 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
• James 3:6 NIV
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
Read James 3 | View in parallel | Compare Translations

Tartarus
2 Peter 2:4 NIV
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
Read 2 Peter 2 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Gloomy dungeons is The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 4618
Original Word Word Origin
siteutoί from a derivative of (4621)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Siteutos None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
sit-yoo-ros'
Adjective

Definition
1. fattened, fatted
</TD< TR>
NAS Word Usage - Total: 1
pits 1
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 2217
Original Word Word Origin
zofoί akin to the base of (3509)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Zophos None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
dzof'-os
Noun Masculine

Definition
1. darkness, blackness
a. used of the darkness of the nether world
</TD< TR>
NAS Word Usage - Total: 5
black 2, darkness 2, gloom 1

NAS Verse Count
Hebrews
1
2 Peter
2
Jude
2
________________________________________ ________________________________________
Total 5


NAS Verse Count
2 Peter
1
________________________________________ ________________________________________
Total

Some Evangelical Christian commentaries distinguish Tartarus as a place for wicked angels and Gehenna as a place for wicked humans on the basis of this verse.[7] Other Evangelical commentaries, in reconciling that some fallen angels are chained in Tartarus, yet some not, attempt to distinguish between one type of fallen angel and another.[8]
Tartaroo None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
tar-tar-o'-o
Verb

Definition
1. the name of the subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer punishment for their evil deeds; it answers to Gehenna of the Jews
2. to thrust down to Tartarus, to hold captive in Tartarus
</TD< TR>
NAS Word Usage - Total: 1
cast...into hell 1

Hades

• Matthew 11:23 NAS
"And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades ; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.
Read Matthew 11 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Matthew 16:18 NAS
"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church ; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Read Matthew 16 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Luke 10:15 NAS
"And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will be brought down to Hades !
Read Luke 10 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Luke 16:23 NAS
"In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Read Luke 16 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Acts 2:27 NAS
BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
Read Acts 2 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Acts 2:31 NAS
he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.
Read Acts 2 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Revelation 1:18 NAS
and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
Read Revelation 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Revelation 6:8 NAS
I looked, and behold, an ashen horse ; and he who sat on it had the name Death ; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Read Revelation 6 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Revelation 20:13 NAS
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Read Revelation 20 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Revelation 20:14 NAS
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Read Revelation 20 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view

Abyss
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 12
Original Word Word Origin
abussoί from (1) (as a negative particle) and a variation of (1037)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Abussos 1:9,2
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ab'-us-sos
Noun Feminine

Definition
1. bottomless
2. unbounded
3. the abyss
a. the pit
b. the immeasurable depth
c. of Orcus, a very deep gulf or chasm in the lowest parts of the earth used as the common receptacle of the dead and especially as the abode of demons
</TD< TR>
NAS Word Usage - Total: 9
abyss 7, bottomless 2

NAS Verse Count
Luke
1
Romans
1
Revelation
7
________________________________________ ________________________________________
Total 9

• Luke 8:31 NAS
They were imploring Him not to command them to go away into the abyss.
Read Luke 8 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Romans 10:7 NAS
or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
Read Romans 10 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
•
• Jude 1:6 NAS
And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
•
• Revelation 9:11 NAS
the key of the bottomless pit was given to him. 2 He opened the bottomless pit, and smoke went up out of the pit, like the smoke of a great furnace ; and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss ; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.
Phrear None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
freh'-ar
Noun Neuter

Definition
1. a well
2. the pit of the abyss (because the nether world is thought to increase in size the further it extends from the surface of the earth and so resemble a cistern, the orifice of which is narrow)
</TD< TR>
NAS Word Usage - Total: 7
pit 4, well 3


Read Revelation 9 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Revelation 11:7 NAS
When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.
Read Revelation 11 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Revelation 17:8 NAS
"The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.
Read Revelation 17 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Revelation 20:1 NAS
[Satan Bound] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Read Revelation 20 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view
• Revelation 20:3 NAS
and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed ; after these things he must be released for a short time.
Read Revelation 20 | View in parallel | Compare Translations| Interlinear view

The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 8415
Original Word Word Origin
~wht from (01949)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

T@howm TWOT - 2495a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
teh-home'
Noun

Definition
1. deep, depths, deep places, abyss, the deep, sea
a. deep (of subterranean waters) deep, sea, abysses (of sea) primeval ocean, deep deep, depth (of river)
b. abyss, the grave deep 22, deeps 8, depths 4, ocean depths 1, springs 1

NAS Word Usage - Total: 36


Abyss -- In the parable of Lazarus there is a chasm between the righteous dead and the wicked dead in Sheol. Lu 16:26;
OT chasm
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Pachath TWOT - 1761a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pakh'-ath
Noun Masculine

Definition
1. pit, hole
</TD< TR>
NAS Word Usage - Total: 10
caves 1, chasm 1, pit 7, pitfall 1

NT Chasm
Strong's Number: 5490
Original Word Word Origin
casma from a form of an obsolete prim chao (to "gape" or "yawn")
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Chasma None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
khas'-mah
Noun Neuter

Definition
1. a gaping opening, a chasm, a gulf
</TD< TR>
NAS Word Usage - Total: 1
chasm 1



May the Lord bless you richly, as you seek Him in His Word and in His Spirit. :)

John 8:32
Jul 3rd 2012, 05:48 PM
A couple of weeks ago, my dad died. I don't feel sad about it and
to be honest I don't really care. He was a very mean, abusive, self centered man, who
had no use for God.

My question is, where do the dead go, the unbelievers?
I have seen different answers to this question.
Do they go right to the burning fires of hell?
Do they go to some place set aside until the final judgement?
Do they go right to heaven and then sent to wherever after judgement?

They go to sleep until the resurrection...

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

All go to sleep. Some will arise at the first resurrection...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Some will rise in the second resurrection...

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Who are these rest of the dead?

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

These are those who have not made a choice. Those who did not/could not understand the Bible, hence the term the books were opened...

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

His very own disciples did not understand until this amazing miracle occurred to them. So will it be to those in the second resurrection.

Then finally, there is the third resurreciton...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice that at this time there is no opening of books? These have already made their choice and they chose death. So they are cast into the lake of fire.

Where is your father? Asleep, awaiting one of these resurrections.

AndrewBaptistFL
Jul 3rd 2012, 06:22 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your dad and will pray for your family.

Eyelog
Jul 3rd 2012, 06:34 PM
They go to sleep until the resurrection...

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

All go to sleep. Some will arise at the first resurrection...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Some will rise in the second resurrection...

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Who are these rest of the dead?

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

These are those who have not made a choice. Those who did not/could not understand the Bible, hence the term the books were opened...

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

His very own disciples did not understand until this amazing miracle occurred to them. So will it be to those in the second resurrection.

Then finally, there is the third resurreciton...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice that at this time there is no opening of books? These have already made their choice and they chose death. So they are cast into the lake of fire.

Where is your father? Asleep, awaiting one of these resurrections.

Hi, John. Interesting set of Scriptures you have assembled.

I'm curious what would you say is going on with Jesus' account of the rich man and Lazarus, which I refer to below, where the rich man wants his living brothers to be warned, indicating it was still the age of grace/church age/pre-millenial period, etc.?

How can he be asleep until the first or second resurrection if he's worried about the bros, and Abe says they have to respond to Moses and the prophets, etc.?

Just wondering how you see that fitting in.

God bless, bro. :)

amazzin
Jul 3rd 2012, 07:25 PM
Absent from the body, present with the Lord

Eyelog
Jul 3rd 2012, 07:44 PM
Absent from the body, present with the Lord

Of course, those who are asleep don't experience anything (unless dreaming), and to them it's as if no time went by at all. So, if the soul-sleep theory be true, which I am not so sure it is, then arguably Paul's pronouncement you refer to could still be true from the subjective believer's POV. :)

John146
Jul 3rd 2012, 08:25 PM
A couple of weeks ago, my dad died. I don't feel sad about it and
to be honest I don't really care. He was a very mean, abusive, self centered man, who
had no use for God.

My question is, where do the dead go, the unbelievers?The spirits of unbelievers go to Hades/hell:

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

On judgment day in the future they and even Hades/hell itself will be cast into the lake of fire:

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I understand how it can be hard for you to feel sympathy for someone who abused you and didn't show you any love, but it's a very sad thing for anyone to end up in hell regardless of what kind of people they were. It sounds to me like your dad was your enemy rather than your friend, which is sad. But Jesus taught us to love our enemies. Did you love your dad? I know you didn't love his behavior and you shouldn't have been expected to, but did you love him as a human being? If not then you need to ask God for forgiveness for not doing what Jesus commands all of us to do. There is nothing more sad than someone ending up in hell.

John146
Jul 3rd 2012, 08:28 PM
Of course, those who are asleep don't experience anythingWere Moses and Elijah not experiencing anything here:

Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Eyelog
Jul 3rd 2012, 08:41 PM
Were Moses and Elijah not experiencing anything here:

Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Good point. That's why I agree with you that the soul-sleep theory is nice and all, but not very likely. :)

John146
Jul 3rd 2012, 08:50 PM
Good point. That's why I agree with you that the soul-sleep theory is nice and all, but not very likely. :)Okay, fair enough. :)

nzyr
Jul 4th 2012, 12:21 AM
They go to sleep until the resurrection...

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

All go to sleep. Some will arise at the first resurrection...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Some will rise in the second resurrection...

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Who are these rest of the dead?

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

These are those who have not made a choice. Those who did not/could not understand the Bible, hence the term the books were opened...

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

His very own disciples did not understand until this amazing miracle occurred to them. So will it be to those in the second resurrection.

Then finally, there is the third resurreciton...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice that at this time there is no opening of books? These have already made their choice and they chose death. So they are cast into the lake of fire.

Where is your father? Asleep, awaiting one of these resurrections.
I don't believe there is a soul sleep. The body sleeps in the earth. The souls of Christians goes to be with Christ when they die.

For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: (Philippians 1:23)

Seagull
Jul 4th 2012, 12:44 AM
On judgment day in the future they and even Hades/hell itself will be cast into the lake of fire:



"I understand how it can be hard for you to feel sympathy for someone who abused you and didn't show you any love, but it's a very sad thing for anyone to end up in hell regardless of what kind of people they were. It sounds to me like your dad was your enemy rather than your friend, which is sad. But Jesus taught us to love our enemies. Did you love your dad? I know you didn't love his behavior and you shouldn't have been expected to, but did you love him as a human being? If not then you need to ask God for forgiveness for not doing what Jesus commands all of us to do. There is nothing more sad than someone ending up in hell.[/QUOTE

Good point, I guess I need to forgive him. As for loving him, that will be more difficult, but I will address the issue in prayer.. Thanks.

Seagull
Jul 4th 2012, 12:46 AM
Thank you all for the reply's and advice and quotes for the Scriptures. I think I have a better understanding now.. God Bless!!

percho
Jul 4th 2012, 03:40 AM
I don't believe there is a soul sleep. The body sleeps in the earth. The souls of Christians goes to be with Christ when they die.

For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: (Philippians 1:23)

I though the body rotted away in the earth. Returned to the dust from whence it came.

Dani H
Jul 4th 2012, 03:58 AM
I though the body rotted away in the earth. Returned to the dust from whence it came.

Same difference. When a grain of wheat dies, it gives itself up, and becomes basically assimilated. So it is with our bodies. But it won't matter because we won't miss them. And then, we get new ones. Eventually. :)

whitetiger
Jul 4th 2012, 05:13 AM
The spirits of unbelievers go to Hades/hell:

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom..

Could this just be a parable

percho
Jul 4th 2012, 05:33 AM
Same difference. When a grain of wheat dies, it gives itself up, and becomes basically assimilated. So it is with our bodies. But it won't matter because we won't miss them. And then, we get new ones. Eventually. :)

I would not call that the body sleeping.

John 8:32
Jul 5th 2012, 12:34 PM
Could this just be a parable

It is absolutely a parable, notice to whom Christ was speaking?

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Now, how did He speak to anyone other than in private instruction to His disciples?

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

When the general populace, including the Pharisees were listening, He spoke in parables? Why?

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

nzyr
Jul 6th 2012, 02:58 AM
I thought the body rotted away in the earth. Returned to the dust from whence it came.
It does. But when Jesus resurrects the saved their bodies shall return. Only they shall become immortal. The graves shall be empty.

Watchman
Jul 6th 2012, 04:02 AM
The dead go to Florida...while waiting to realize their state.

Boo
Jul 6th 2012, 08:47 AM
The dead go to Florida...while waiting to realize their state.

Some of us live people go there, too. Somebody has to cut their grass and maintain their roads.

excubitor
Jul 6th 2012, 09:54 AM
After death the body goes into the grave and rots.
The souls of the incorrigibly wicked go to hell for eternity.
The souls of the righteous go to heaven for eternity.
I believe as do many Christians such as the Eastern Orthodox and some High Anglicans that souls which have not fully attained a state of righteousness need to be purified by punishments before they can enter the holiness of heaven. Christians who believe this therefore pray that the souls of the faithful departed will find rest and peace and may be taken into heaven. This is why Christians graves have always been engraved with R.I.P. Requiscant in Pace. Rest in Peace as a prayer for the suffering of the souls of their loved ones.

At the return of Christ the resurrection occurs where the soul is reunited with the body. The righteous continue to live bodily in the New Heavens and the New Earth in an eternity of joy and bliss. The wicked receive in their bodies the same torment that they received in their souls for the rest of eternity.

This is the truth.

A couple of weeks ago, my dad died. I don't feel sad about it and
to be honest I don't really care. He was a very mean, abusive, self centered man, who
had no use for God.

My question is, where do the dead go, the unbelievers?
I have seen different answers to this question.
Do they go right to the burning fires of hell?
Do they go to some place set aside until the final judgement?
Do they go right to heaven and then sent to wherever after judgement?

John 8:32
Jul 6th 2012, 11:01 AM
After death the body goes into the grave and rots.
The souls of the incorrigibly wicked go to hell for eternity.
The souls of the righteous go to heaven for eternity.
I believe as do many Christians such as the Eastern Orthodox and some High Anglicans that souls which have not fully attained a state of righteousness need to be purified by punishments before they can enter the holiness of heaven. Christians who believe this therefore pray that the souls of the faithful departed will find rest and peace and may be taken into heaven. This is why Christians graves have always been engraved with R.I.P. Requiscant in Pace. Rest in Peace as a prayer for the suffering of the souls of their loved ones.

At the return of Christ the resurrection occurs where the soul is reunited with the body. The righteous continue to live bodily in the New Heavens and the New Earth in an eternity of joy and bliss. The wicked receive in their bodies the same torment that they received in their souls for the rest of eternity.

This is the truth.

And for this, I would have to say something like "I am from Missouri".

Ta-An
Jul 6th 2012, 11:06 AM
Good point, I guess I need to forgive him. As for loving him, that will be more difficult, but I will address the issue in prayer.. Thanks.
:hug:
A very good point, forgiveness is not to set them free, but it makes you free

Hawkins
Jul 6th 2012, 02:52 PM
Could this just be a parable

Parable is the employment of physical existence which are obvious to illustrate a less obvious point of view. For example, use goat/weeds to represent the unsave, use sheep/wheat to represent the saved. Sheep/wheat adn goat/weeds are all physically existing objects which are easily understandable by the audience the Jews at that time. Similarly, hell/soul/Abraham's Bosom, they are all existence easily understandable to the Jews at that time for a point to be made.

John146
Jul 9th 2012, 07:49 PM
Could this just be a parableDid Christ's parables refer to people and places by name? I don't believe so. That passage (Luke 16:19-31) refers to actual people (Lazarus, Abraham, and Moses) by name and also actual places by name (Abraham's bosom, hell/Hades), so I don't believe it is a parable.

But even if it was a parable, did Christ's parables depict things that didn't exist in real life? No. He spoke of real things in His parables like wheat, tares, leaven, seeds, thorns, the sun and so on. So, there is no basis for thinking that there isn't really a place called hell/Hades. And since there's no basis for thinking that then there's also no basis for thinking that Christ would have made up a scenario in which someone could experience torment there. He wouldn't have made up a scenario that couldn't be true in reality. Since He spoke of someone physically dying and then experiencing torment in hell/Hades there is no reason for us to think that the spirits of unbelievers do not go to Hades and experience torment there when they physically die.

John146
Jul 9th 2012, 08:06 PM
It is absolutely a parable, notice to whom Christ was speaking?

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Now, how did He speak to anyone other than in private instruction to His disciples?

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

When the general populace, including the Pharisees were listening, He spoke in parables?Not always. Why do I have to repeatedly correct you on this? That verse is not saying that He only spoke to the general populace in parables every single time He spoke to them. That verse is only speaking of that occasion in particular. On that occasion He did not speak to that multitude except in parables. But on other occasions He did not always speak to the Pharisees and the multitudes in parables. Here are examples to prove that:

Matt 9:1 And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city. 2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. 3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. 4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? 5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7 And he arose, and departed to his house.

Here, Jesus spoke to the scribes without speaking in a parable. But you're trying to say He never did that. This proves otherwise.

Matt 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

This shows Jesus speaking to the Pharisees without speaking to them in parables. So, this also proves your claim to be false. He spoke to the scribes and the Pharisees a number of times without parables. So, I don't know how you can try to claim that He didn't "speak to anyone other than in private instruction to His disciples".

Now, if you still try to claim that he never spoke to a multitude without parables the following verses disprove that claim:

Matt 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. 12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

In this passage Jesus was speaking to the multitude and He was not speaking in parables. So, this proves that Matt 13:34 did not apply to all occasions when Jesus spoke to "the general populace, including the Pharisees". So, you can't use Matt 13:34 to support your opinion that Luke 16:19-31 is a parable.