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ross3421
Oct 23rd 2012, 08:16 PM
Image of thier God

To get an understanding what this image my be or look like we need to ask ouselves..... When we think of God what image comes to mind? What image came to mind to those in the old testement which reflected God? Simply the temple. Likewise those which will follow the beast whom they thin iis the almighty God before them will go to build this Image for the beast.

Fire down from heaven to fill the temple with thier glory

To further support the image is the temple fire will be called down from heaven to fill the temple not to show off power with miracles. The deception is that the masses believe God is among them as he speaks from the throne.

2ch 7:1Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house.2ch 7:2And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD'S house.2ch 7:3And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the LORD upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshiped, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

The Image may speak like thier God from the throne

Who is to be worshiped? Satan. We know that Satan is wanting the worship of God's creation and will deceive the nations into believing that his son is the most high not just some world dictator. Those that dwell on the earth will think they are in the presence of the Almighty and will think everlasting peace has come. Peace and safety.....Now the "image" which they build is this sanctuary whereby then this fire enters and then the image speaks.

Thier 666

If we continue down the chapter we see those receiving a mark in which God will do the same. And then of course the last verse which I have come to the understanding of it's meaning. Understanding the image is the temple is vital in understanding. It is not coincidence we find it in the same chapter as the image and the two go together. You see 666 is the measure of man which is used to build the temple. I will follow up with a seperate thread soon.

markedward
Oct 23rd 2012, 08:51 PM
If you'll forgive me for not addressing the post directly... I would just like to point out the immense irony in someone having to 'reveal' hidden information out of a book that is self-titled 'the revelation'. This always makes me wary of whatever theory is going to be produced, especially when it relies on obscure and superficially-related cross references.

The same phrase (in English) is used three times in 2 Kings 1. If the simple appearance of the phrase 'fire came down from heaven' meant that we were supposed to dig out some obscure connection between 2 Chronicles and Revelation 13, why not also 2 Kings 1?

I also think it is disingenuous to take 'image' and 'temple' as interchangeable. An image may be placed in a temple, but many were not. Equating the two so you can then switch them around is not an honest handling of the text. John's vision is making an obvious reversal of the common Biblical critique that idols cannot speak.* He's not talking about a temple, he's talking about an idol.

* Isaiah 44.9-20; Jeremiah 10.5,14; 51.17; Habakkuk 2.18; Psalm 115.4-5; 135.15-16; etc.

ross3421
Oct 23rd 2012, 09:27 PM
If you'll forgive me for not addressing the post directly... I would just like to point out the immense irony in someone having to 'reveal' hidden information out of a book that is self-titled 'the revelation'. This always makes me wary of whatever theory is going to be produced, especially when it relies on obscure and superficially-related cross references.

I appreciate your caution as you should test all things with scripture. But the scripture you provide does not prove this to be wrong.


The same phrase (in English) is used three times in 2 Kings 1. If the simple appearance of the phrase 'fire came down from heaven' meant that we were supposed to dig out some obscure connection between 2 Chronicles and Revelation 13, why not also 2 Kings 1?

Obscure connection? Fire down from heaven, temple, worship this has connection a pattern. Rather the obscure connection that this kings is merely for games lighting up the sky for a lazer light show. Why can it not be the same.


I also think it is disingenuous to take 'image' and 'temple' as interchangeable. An image may be placed in a temple, but many were not. Equating the two so you can then switch them around is not an honest handling of the text. John's vision is making an obvious reversal of the common Biblical critique that idols cannot speak.* He's not talking about a temple, he's talking about an idol.

You have narrowed your thought of an image as such. Again your thought it is an idol like a golden calve or something but you missing the big picture of what is taking place on the grand scale. Satan is counterfeiting the second coming, no golden calves here rather the big props.

Where does God speak from? The throne. Likewise satan will speak from the throne of the temple as those bow down to worship much like we will do as well.



.

Ceegen
Oct 23rd 2012, 11:21 PM
If we continue down the chapter we see those receiving a mark in which God will do the same. And then of course the last verse which I have come to the understanding of it's meaning. Understanding the image is the temple is vital in understanding. It is not coincidence we find it in the same chapter as the image and the two go together. You see 666 is the measure of man which is used to build the temple. I will follow up with a seperate thread soon.

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" - 1 Corinthians 6:19.

Hmmm. I think what you are saying, and this passage, are somehow related.

markedward
Oct 24th 2012, 04:33 PM
Obscure connection?Yes. Your connection is based solely on a similar English phrase. On that basis we could connect virtually anything we wanted with anything else as long as two or more words between various passages happen to read the same in English. On this superficial and flimsy basis, I've seen some claim that the antichrist and the false prophet will be a reincarnated Nebuchadnezzar and Judas.

If we're going thematically (temple, worship, whatever), there would be hundreds of passages with only minimal connection. The connection is obscure because the context is completely different. The fire came down for the temple Solomon built to light the fire for sacrifices. The fire in Revelation 13 is said to call down fire whenever it likes as a sign of the beast's power; again, this at the least has more in common with Elijah's actions (since Elijah is a prophet, and this second beast is called 'the false prophet'). And, again, the passage never mentions a temple, so if a temple is found, it is inferred by the reader, it is not drawn from the text.


You have narrowed your thought of an image as such.
Rather, I am refusing to read anything I choose into the text simply because it is convenient for this or that interpretation. Rather than assuming that 'image' and 'temple' are interchangeable symbols, I try to follow how the ancient world understood such things. I see the text speaking of an image. I do not see the text speaking of a temple.


Again your thought it is an idol like a golden calve or something but you missing the big picture of what is taking place on the grand scale.
When I think of an idol, I think of exactly what the text describes, and exactly what John's original readers (first-century Christians, living in Asia, one of the most idolatrous regions in the Roman Empire) would have thought of: an idol being established for worship in the state religion. If a temple is meant to be viewed, it isn't the main focus that John's vision, because he never mentions one. If he wanted us to think of a counterfeit temple with a counterfeit throne, he could easily have done so, especially since it would have been very typologically helpful for him to do so. But he simply describes an idol.

You can see a temple in the text all you want, but it must be admitted that it is being read into the text, not drawn from it. John's focus is on an idol, and nothing he says indicates that 'idol' means 'temple without a throne for the satan to sit on'.


Satan is counterfeiting the second coming,
I don't see how this can be drawn from what John says. If anything, his description makes it seem that the beast is a dark parody of Christ's death and resurrection (13.3,12), and the mission of his apostles (13.12)... not a second coming.

Beckrl
Oct 25th 2012, 06:25 PM
Image of thier God

To get an understanding what this image my be or look like we need to ask ouselves..... When we think of God what image comes to mind? What image came to mind to those in the old testement which reflected God? Simply the temple. Likewise those which will follow the beast whom they thin iis the almighty God before them will go to build this Image for the beast.

Fire down from heaven to fill the temple with thier glory

To further support the image is the temple fire will be called down from heaven to fill the temple not to show off power with miracles. The deception is that the masses believe God is among them as he speaks from the throne.

2ch 7:1Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house.2ch 7:2And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD'S house.2ch 7:3And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the LORD upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshiped, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

The Image may speak like thier God from the throne

Who is to be worshiped? Satan. We know that Satan is wanting the worship of God's creation and will deceive the nations into believing that his son is the most high not just some world dictator. Those that dwell on the earth will think they are in the presence of the Almighty and will think everlasting peace has come. Peace and safety.....Now the "image" which they build is this sanctuary whereby then this fire enters and then the image speaks.

Thier 666

If we continue down the chapter we see those receiving a mark in which God will do the same. And then of course the last verse which I have come to the understanding of it's meaning. Understanding the image is the temple is vital in understanding. It is not coincidence we find it in the same chapter as the image and the two go together. You see 666 is the measure of man which is used to build the temple. I will follow up with a seperate thread soon.

I'm under the impression that the language used of "calling fire down from heaven" as a miracle is symbolism of the words of God as fire (2ch 7). In the case of the beast of the earth (apostate Israel) proforming miracles of fire coming down would be to say the beast speak as a prophet of God (speak as a dragon) which decieved many. Of course we understand the beast of the earth to be referring to the Priesthood.

Raybob
Oct 26th 2012, 08:47 AM
Image of thier God

To get an understanding what this image my be or look like we need to ask ouselves..... When we think of God what image comes to mind? What image came to mind to those in the old testement which reflected God? Simply the temple...

I don't know how you can come to that conclusion. Nowhere in the bible is the temple ever referred to as an 'image' of God.

Rev 13:15a And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak...

Since when do buildings speak?

ross3421
Oct 26th 2012, 11:43 AM
I don't know how you can come to that conclusion. Nowhere in the bible is the temple ever referred to as an 'image' of God.

Rev 13:15a And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak...

Since when do buildings speak?

When do bushes or Donkey's speak...........

As it is in the kingdom of God werein he speaks from the throne. An audible voice from an ivisible image though housed in a temple. Likewise Satan will replicate the same as deception. This should not be too hard to grasp folks.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

ross3421
Oct 26th 2012, 11:51 AM
I'm under the impression that the language used of "calling fire down from heaven" as a miracle is symbolism of the words of God as fire

The event evoke an physical action (worship) so I would not think it be symbolism. Iam not sure how you go about determining what is literal but it is concerning.


In the case of the beast of the earth (apostate Israel)

Actually the woman (whore) more specific (Jreusalem). Apostate would be the waters (peoples which would include Jews)


proforming miracles of fire coming down would be to say the beast speak as a prophet of God (speak as a dragon) which decieved many.

More specific yes a prophet and the counterfeit of the second coming ie Jesus.


Of course we understand the beast of the earth to be referring to the Priesthood.

??? You lost me here!

awestruckchild
Oct 26th 2012, 11:59 AM
ross, I have found your posts to be very interesting.
I think it is reasonable to think that satan will try to convince men he is God to fool the very elect if possible.
I think there is some relevance to what you have said.
The way you have seen these two verses, with the fire coming down from heaven - this is the same way God teaches me scripture - by showing me similarities and correlations in a tying together.
This is a little bit different, but He once showed me how the people speaking the same language and so now nothing would be impossible for them is how WE would be if we all walked in the Spirit, speaking the same language. The one was a bad case of it that displeased God so He came down and confused their speech, but if Gods people were to all begin speaking the same language, mouths would drop and more would be added to the church every day!

jhdobbins
Oct 26th 2012, 03:10 PM
How do you think the Mark will be labeled on people? I've heard of microchips for currency, barcodes for scanning, etc.

My dad and I discussed this and he believes it will be by tattoo. They have certainly grown in popularity.

Leviticus 19:28 says: "Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord.

ross3421
Oct 26th 2012, 04:17 PM
ross, I have found your posts to be very interesting.
I think it is reasonable to think that satan will try to convince men he is God to fool the very elect if possible.
I think there is some relevance to what you have said.
The way you have seen these two verses, with the fire coming down from heaven - this is the same way God teaches me scripture - by showing me similarities and correlations in a tying together.
This is a little bit different, but He once showed me how the people speaking the same language and so now nothing would be impossible for them is how WE would be if we all walked in the Spirit, speaking the same language. The one was a bad case of it that displeased God so He came down and confused their speech, but if Gods people were to all begin speaking the same language, mouths would drop and more would be added to the church every day!

Thanks for your response.......

ross3421
Oct 26th 2012, 04:24 PM
How do you think the Mark will be labeled on people? I've heard of microchips for currency, barcodes for scanning, etc.

My dad and I discussed this and he believes it will be by tattoo. They have certainly grown in popularity.

Leviticus 19:28 says: "Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord.

The same way God will mark his people.......remember it needs to look authentic and he is claiming to be God so I don't think God uses microchips ect.....