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Protective Angel
Oct 31st 2012, 01:45 AM
Does the altar represent the place for sacrifice when we give our lives to God?


The altar is used for prayer then how do these scriptures fit in?

NOTE: this is meant for discussion.




Matthew 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Walls
Oct 31st 2012, 07:28 AM
Does the altar represent the place for sacrifice when we give our lives to God?


The altar is used for prayer then how do these scriptures fit in?

NOTE: this is meant for discussion.




Matthew 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

The Altar was a fixture of the Tabernacle and/or Temple of the Old Testament. If a man wanted to get into fellowship with God, Who dwelt in the Holy of Holies, he had to go through a process. The start of this was a substitute offering, that was unblemished, being slain by him and the priest on the Altar. The last Altar is the earth where Christ was slain as a substitute for all men.

We Christians have nothing to do with the Altar of the Tabernacle or Temple as these "Houses" have been replaced by the Church, the House of the Living God (1st Pet.2:5, 4:17). Christ has died "once for all" (Heb.10:10) therefore, we have nothing to do with the execution of His sacrifice. It is a work totally outside of man's realm. It cannot be partaken of by anyone. The smallest sin makes a man unfit to be a sacrifice. The smallest sin makes a man IN NEED of a sacrifice.

Except for the memory of our Lord Jesus' sacrifice, we have nothing to do with the Altar.

adampjr
Oct 31st 2012, 08:17 AM
Some churches do make use of the altar and somewaht emulate elements from the tabernacle.

For example, I've gone to an orthodox church that has an altar. I belive some other liturgical churches do similar things.

Boo
Oct 31st 2012, 10:04 AM
Any more, when people kneel at the altar, it is seen as a public display of one's desire to communicate something to God. It does not elevate one's prayers any faster or any stronger - except in the heart of the person praying. That public display may well draw another to the person's side to join in the prayer.

I don't think it is the same as the Pharisee yelling his prayers on a street corner.

Protective Angel
Oct 31st 2012, 12:36 PM
Any more, when people kneel at the altar, it is seen as a public display of one's desire to communicate something to God. It does not elevate one's prayers any faster or any stronger - except in the heart of the person praying. That public display may well draw another to the person's side to join in the prayer.

I don't think it is the same as the Pharisee yelling his prayers on a street corner.

But how does verse 6 work with, "seen as a public display" as you say.
I've always thought of a church altar as the most holy place to pray, but verse 6 sounds like there's a better place. In secret.

Boo
Nov 1st 2012, 09:57 AM
But how does verse 6 work with, "seen as a public display" as you say.
I've always thought of a church altar as the most holy place to pray, but verse 6 sounds like there's a better place. In secret.

In a church building, you are not out "in public." You are with those who are in attendance to praise and worship God. Also, by your actions of going up to an altar to pray, those who are squeamish about moving will more freely act according to their urging. They would not be alone up at the altar. I've seen a congregation fail to move until just one person finally moves forward - and then there is a flood of people.

Out in the streets, one yelling a prayer to God is doing it for show. I guess it is also possible that a person going up front within a congregation can be doing that as well. It depends on what is happening in the heart of the person.

ContractKeeper
Nov 1st 2012, 04:45 PM
Does the altar represent the place for sacrifice when we give our lives to God?




The altar is used for prayer then how do these scriptures fit in?


NOTE: this is meant for discussion.








Matthew 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.


6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.Protective Angel, really ? I am surprised by you, again today.
I wear full armor, and fight spirits that hook men's jaws.
My name is wolf shield, dean of tens, contract keeper, I am a servant of Christ Jesus the only begotten Son of God.
You either gather His own for Him, or you scatter His own from among Him, choose ye...

I only care to answer this question of yours for the benefit of my Master's sheep that you might confuse or mislead by your asking a question out of the full context of where it was recorded at in our bibles:
There is a difference between giving alms or thanks ..and.. petitioning or asking in prayer.

Did you not read the first few verses in the chapter that you quoted from to purpose your question ?

Try starting at verse 1 of the chapter that you quoted from in Matthew 6 to keep what is being shared in that chapter in it's full context instead of chopping off the first four verses to present your question.

Protective Angel
Nov 1st 2012, 05:30 PM
Protective Angel, really ? I am surprised by you, again today.
I wear full armor, and fight spirits that hook men's jaws.
My name is wolf shield, dean of tens, contract keeper.
You either gather or you scatter, choose ye...

I only care to answer this question of yours for the benefit of my Master's sheep that you might confuse or mislead by your asking a question out of the full context of where it was recorded at in our bibles:
There is a difference between giving alms or thanks ..and.. petitioning or asking in prayer.

Did you not read the first few verses in the chapter that you quote from ?

Try starting at verse 1 of the chapter that you quoted from in Matthew 6 to keep what is being shared in that chapter in it's full context instead of chopping off the first four verses to present your question.

Wow, I guess I'm not understanding very well. :cry:

Sorry for my mistakes in this matter. Much more reading is needed for me.

Protective Angel
Nov 1st 2012, 05:31 PM
In a church building, you are not out "in public." You are with those who are in attendance to praise and worship God. Also, by your actions of going up to an altar to pray, those who are squeamish about moving will more freely act according to their urging. They would not be alone up at the altar. I've seen a congregation fail to move until just one person finally moves forward - and then there is a flood of people.

Out in the streets, one yelling a prayer to God is doing it for show. I guess it is also possible that a person going up front within a congregation can be doing that as well. It depends on what is happening in the heart of the person.

Ok, thank you.

I see now that in church, is not in public. :hug:

Walls
Nov 1st 2012, 07:09 PM
Wow, I guess I'm not understanding very well. :cry:

Sorry for my mistakes in this matter. Much more reading is needed for me.

Protective Angel,

Thank you for posting your question. From my side you can ask any question you like. You can tell a servant of the Lord by his/her attitude to those who are young and full of questions. When a Christian is born again they start as a Baby, and the Lord requires of His more mature servants a measure of patience, just like changing diapers and wiping wet noses. Imagine the father of a household who requires instant maturity in life and knowledge from his newborn children. Some of us have joined this Forum just for saints like you. You can bug me as much as you want.

God Bless

ContractKeeper
Nov 1st 2012, 10:43 PM
Protective Angel,
Imagine the father of a household who requires instant maturity in life and knowledge from his newborn children.
God Bless
Using your own metaphor:
Imagine the children not the father, imagine the "children" of a father who spares his of-accountable-aged children the rod.




I am confident that Protective Angel has the maturity to note the difference between a wolf in sheep's clothing and a Shepherd's rod or staff.

Walls, do you recall Jim Jones from a few decades ago ?
Jim Jones was in the mid or late 70's or early 80's, he coddled and wooed those who were uneducated in God's word, those seeking God but not educating or disciplining themselves to Christ's words as Christ has made it very clear to all of those who would choose to follow and disciple themselves to Him: there is a price to following Him... Ill quote the bible passages with those prices uttered by Christ Himself and His hand picked earliest disciples too, if you are having trouble bringing them to mind.

Jim Jones wooed these biblicaly uneducated people to their final doom by coddling them, by accommodating them, wooing and cooing them by serenading them with free love with no reciprocal expectations what so ever, no obedience required, no discipline required, just come as you are, and stay as you are, no need to educate, not even a need to expect any renewal at all, that kinda stuff is only for the self-righteous.
Because "father" Jim will love and accommodate you just as you are, not requiring any change or further education in God's word, if you have any questions at all, just come and ask "father" Jim any questions you have...
Until you are totally dependent on my wooing, my cooing, my coddling and my all accommodating love and acceptance. Then I will kill you just as you were, never changed, never further educated in God's word to discern the truth from a murderer's lies. Never even begun to be discipled to Christ before your death, just as "father" Jim wanted !

That was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
God, Jesus, Enoch, Elijah and Moses's an Aron's expectations and firm discipline was a shepherd's rod or staff.
But of course that could not possibly apply could it Walls ?

Walls
Nov 2nd 2012, 06:44 AM
Using your own metaphor:
Imagine the children not the father, imagine the "children" of a father who spares his of-accountable-aged children the rod.




I am confident that Protective Angel has the maturity to note the difference between a wolf in sheep's clothing and a Shepherd's rod or staff.

Walls, do you recall Jim Jones from a few decades ago ?
Jim Jones was in the mid or late 70's or early 80's, he coddled and wooed those who were uneducated in God's word, those seeking God but not educating or disciplining themselves to Christ's words as Christ has made it very clear to all of those who would choose to follow and disciple themselves to Him: there is a price to following Him... Ill quote the bible passages with those prices uttered by Christ Himself and His hand picked earliest disciples too, if you are having trouble bringing them to mind.

Jim Jones wooed these biblicaly uneducated people to their final doom by coddling them, by accommodating them, wooing and cooing them by serenading them with free love with no reciprocal expectations what so ever, no obedience required, no discipline required, just come as you are, and stay as you are, no need to educate, not even a need to expect any renewal at all, that kinda stuff is only for the self-righteous.
Because "father" Jim will love and accommodate you just as you are, not requiring any change or further education in God's word, if you have any questions at all, just come and ask "father" Jim any questions you have...
Until you are totally dependent on my wooing, my cooing, my coddling and my all accommodating love and acceptance. Then I will kill you just as you were, never changed, never further educated in God's word to discern the truth from a murderer's lies. Never even begun to be discipled to Christ before your death, just as "father" Jim wanted !

That was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
God, Jesus, Enoch, Elijah and Moses's an Aron's expectations and firm discipline was a shepherd's rod or staff.
But of course that could not possibly apply could it Walls ?



And do you think that my answer in posting #2 was a "Jim Jones" answer? If so, why did you not apply your "rod" and "staff" to me rather. Or maybe your "Sabre for dividing asunder fellow Christians." After all, you obviously have appointed yourself "Chastiser of wayward posters." Why not try to give a coherent answer based on scripture rather? After all, it is "let's talk Bible" and that is exactly what Protective Angel did. If we are to follow your self-elected path of discipline for all who are not up to your standard, then we may as well shut down the Forum. Your acrimony is more destructive to the truth getting out than a hundred uneducated posters. You claim to be a "wolf shield" for your Master, but your Master said, "Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another" (Romans 12:10), and "... the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will" (2nd Timothy 2:24-26).

adampjr
Nov 5th 2012, 11:51 AM
Using your own metaphor:
Imagine the children not the father, imagine the "children" of a father who spares his of-accountable-aged children the rod.




I am confident that Protective Angel has the maturity to note the difference between a wolf in sheep's clothing and a Shepherd's rod or staff.

Walls, do you recall Jim Jones from a few decades ago ?
Jim Jones was in the mid or late 70's or early 80's, he coddled and wooed those who were uneducated in God's word, those seeking God but not educating or disciplining themselves to Christ's words as Christ has made it very clear to all of those who would choose to follow and disciple themselves to Him: there is a price to following Him... Ill quote the bible passages with those prices uttered by Christ Himself and His hand picked earliest disciples too, if you are having trouble bringing them to mind.

Jim Jones wooed these biblicaly uneducated people to their final doom by coddling them, by accommodating them, wooing and cooing them by serenading them with free love with no reciprocal expectations what so ever, no obedience required, no discipline required, just come as you are, and stay as you are, no need to educate, not even a need to expect any renewal at all, that kinda stuff is only for the self-righteous.
Because "father" Jim will love and accommodate you just as you are, not requiring any change or further education in God's word, if you have any questions at all, just come and ask "father" Jim any questions you have...
Until you are totally dependent on my wooing, my cooing, my coddling and my all accommodating love and acceptance. Then I will kill you just as you were, never changed, never further educated in God's word to discern the truth from a murderer's lies. Never even begun to be discipled to Christ before your death, just as "father" Jim wanted !

That was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
God, Jesus, Enoch, Elijah and Moses's an Aron's expectations and firm discipline was a shepherd's rod or staff.
But of course that could not possibly apply could it Walls ?



Dude. What in the world are you on about? Nothing he just said there had anything to do with Jim Jones-types.

ContractKeeper
Nov 5th 2012, 11:53 AM
And do you think that my answer in posting #2 was a "Jim Jones" answer? If so, why did you not apply your "rod" and "staff" to me rather. Or maybe your "Sabre for dividing asunder fellow Christians." After all, you obviously have appointed yourself "Chastiser of wayward posters." Why not try to give a coherent answer based on scripture rather? After all, it is "let's talk Bible" and that is exactly what Protective Angel did. If we are to follow your self-elected path of discipline for all who are not up to your standard, then we may as well shut down the Forum. Your acrimony is more destructive to the truth getting out than a hundred uneducated posters. You claim to be a "wolf shield" for your Master, but your Master said, "Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another" (Romans 12:10), and "... the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will" (2nd Timothy 2:24-26).You seem to have already just answered your own question's' in that post, Walls.
May you and your own answers to your own questions, keep from falling into a ditch... :saint:

You seem not to, but I welcome the rod and staff, they comfort me, I will offer you one more:
Titus chapter one with some extra emphasis on the mid verses.