View Full Version : John saw the temple open first in chapter 15, not 11.

Nov 17th 2012, 01:14 AM
Revelation has a mystery of God section. This section ends with the 7th trumpet. When John saw the temple open in chapter 15, he still had not yet been shown the part of where the ark can be seen. That would come later, in chapter 11's time.

There are three sets of plagues in Revelation.

7 trumpet plagues
7 vials plagues
and the seven last plagues /the repouring of the seven vials

Ask yourself, how do angels in heaven, standing before God -sound trumpets resulting in plagues on the earth?
They don't.
It is angels on the earth that will cause the actual plagues to occur.
Notice what scene is at the start of Rev. 7. Here is where the trumpets actually will soon be seen by John (in chapter 7). This is why there will also be those that came out of great tribulation (in chapter 7).

"four angels standing on the four corners of the earth"
"to whom it was given to hurt"

How do the vials later occur?
The seven angels have left heaven and pour them out.

Nov 17th 2012, 01:20 AM
How did John enter that Rev. 7:1 angel set into the overall book of Revelation?

in 7:1
"four angels"

What did that set become later?

in v2
"the four angels"

So Rev. 8:2 can't have "the seven angels" in it, unless first John has seen that set as "seven angels".

Nov 23rd 2012, 03:01 PM
How easily can Rev, be out in its proper order, as to how the events came to John?
If you start with chapter 12, as to where the first sign in heaven was seen, and then follow the patterns as to how John words various subjects, it begins to become clear.

in Rev. 12:1
"appeared a great wonder"
in 12:3
"appeared another wonder"
in 15:1
"another sign"

So, we can see that chapter 12 was seen before chapter 15.

in Rev. 12:3
"a great red dragon"
in 13:2
"the dragon"

But skip to the end of chapter 15, and what did John see happening?

"till the seven plagues were fulfilled"
in 15:6

Here is when he saw the seven trumpets taking place,
The smoke account here is the same as that of Rev. 8:4.
The seven angels of 15:1-7 become the "we" angels of chapter 7.

Let chapters 12 and 13 flow into chapter 15, and let seven plagues take place in chapter 15. These plagues are being done by the four angels on the earth, in chapter 7.

Dec 13th 2012, 02:13 PM
Have you thought about the different phrases John uses when he refers to the temple in heaven?

The first time that he saw it open was in Rev. 15. What did he call it, and how much of it was he allowed to view?

temple of the tabernacle
/not allowed to see the ark

What did he call it after the smoke came in Rev. 15:8?
the temple
"And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power..."

What does John call it in Rev. 7:15?
"...in his temple..."

What did he call it in Rev. 11:19? time of the 7th trumpet

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven...the ark..."

Rev. 11 is not where John first saw the temple open in heaven, nor did he first see the temple in Rev. 7?
John was writing chapter 15 when the temple opened to him for the first time to see inside of it.
then it was - the temple of the tabernacle

Dec 13th 2012, 02:47 PM
Noitce the first time that John sees "vials"?

"And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full..."

This is not the same set of seven plagues that the seven angels came out of the temple in heaven as already having.

15:And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues..."