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wb380
Jan 3rd 2013, 05:25 AM
What is the makeup of man?
What happens when you die?
What happens on resurrection?

markedward
Jan 3rd 2013, 07:37 AM
1. Body of dust and spirit / breath of life make a living soul.

2. Body returns to dust, the spirit / breath returns to God.

3. God restores spirit to the body, the body comes to life, and stands in the judgment.

Walls
Jan 3rd 2013, 05:29 PM
The body is made up of many parts - billions if you count the cells individually.

The soul is made up of three parts;

Mind - the thinking organ
Emotions - the feeling organ
Will - the deciding organ

The spirit is also made of three parts

The conscience
Intuition
Fellowship


The heart (not the physical one, but the one we must love the Lord with with all power) is made of three parts of the soul and one of the spirit

The mind
The emotions
The will
The conscience

When you die your three parts are torn from each other. The spirit returns to God (Eccl.3:21, 12:7; Lk.23:46; Jn.19:30), the body returns to the elements (Eccl.3:20) and the soul goes to Hades under the earth to await resurrection (Matt.12:40; Eph.4:9-10).

At resurrection your soul ascends (rises - from which we get the word resurrection) from Hades, your spirit return from God, and they both meet a renewed body on the surface of the earth (1st Ki.17:22; Lk.8:55).

Hope this helps

divaD
Jan 3rd 2013, 06:23 PM
My question might be, if taken literal, what might a disembodied soul look like upon death?


Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.




Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;


From these passages alone, we could conclude the following. Disembodied souls have eyes, tongues, and fingers according to Luke 16:23-24. According to the Revelation passages, they have hands and can be clothed with robes.

This is assuming all of this is meaning in the literal sense. But if none of this is meaning in the literal sense, then exactly how are some envisioning disembodied souls after they have left the body? And if disembodied souls all already have literal eyes, tongues, fingers, hands, and literal robes they can be clothed with, why do they still need a body in the future as well?

Don't ask me. I can't help but ponder these things every now and then. Kind of makes me wonder at times, some of the things we believe, whether it really makes a lick of sense afterall, after thinking thru things a little deeper?

wb380
Jan 3rd 2013, 08:30 PM
Thanks for the responses. Really helped.

Rullion Green
Jan 4th 2013, 12:13 AM
Don't ask me. I can't help but ponder these things every now and then. Kind of makes me wonder at times, some of the things we believe, whether it really makes a lick of sense afterall, after thinking thru things a little deeper?

Can i ask what your faith is resting on, if you are so easily shaken by such a vague topic. Seems you are leaning towards a naturalistic worldview or at least starting to ?

Asking out of concern my friend.

BCF
Jan 4th 2013, 02:46 AM
What is the makeup of man?
What happens when you die?
What happens on resurrection?

You have asked three questions pertaining to three different things according to scripture. The makeup of Man is Spirit Soul and Body...that is the only answer there is for question. Question 2 What happens when one dies??????? your Spirit goes back to God who owns it and is not in heaven b/c God is everywhere. Question 3 What happens on resurrection????? we get a GlorifiedBody like Jesus had when He arose again after three days.
Answers to question 1 are simple to follow in scripture. Answers to questions 2 and 3 take a very deep and time consuming study in scripture.

God Bless,

Dave

divaD
Jan 4th 2013, 03:09 AM
Can i ask what your faith is resting on, if you are so easily shaken by such a vague topic. Seems you are leaning towards a naturalistic worldview or at least starting to ?

Asking out of concern my friend.



Why do you assume I'm easily shaken by this topic? I'm simply saying the majority of us, including myself, believe souls either go to heaven or hell when they die, awaiting resurrection and judgment. According to those passages I provided, if taken literal about departed souls, this means they have body parts, such as tongues, fingers, etc. Why should that cause you concern if I choose to ponder things like that? No way do I believe souls have body parts. So my point would be, maybe souls don't go anywhere after a person has died, the fact the other things mentioned about souls shouldn't be understood as literal. Who knows then, maybe they sleep afterall. But don't take that to mean that is what I'm concluding, since I'm not. But at the same time, I'm trying to make sense of it all.

Explain to me what you mean by a naturalistic worldview, since I'm not familiar with what that means. After telling me the meaning, I will then tell you if I honestly see myself fitting that profile.

As far as these ponderings...I've been reading the Bible off and on for decades now. These pondering aren't anything new with me. So it's not like I'm just now thinking thru some of this.

Walls
Jan 4th 2013, 07:23 AM
Why do you assume I'm easily shaken by this topic? I'm simply saying the majority of us, including myself, believe souls either go to heaven or hell when they die, awaiting resurrection and judgment. According to those passages I provided, if taken literal about departed souls, this means they have body parts, such as tongues, fingers, etc. Why should that cause you concern if I choose to ponder things like that? No way do I believe souls have body parts. So my point would be, maybe souls don't go anywhere after a person has died, the fact the other things mentioned about souls shouldn't be understood as literal. Who knows then, maybe they sleep afterall. But don't take that to mean that is what I'm concluding, since I'm not. But at the same time, I'm trying to make sense of it all.

Explain to me what you mean by a naturalistic worldview, since I'm not familiar with what that means. After telling me the meaning, I will then tell you if I honestly see myself fitting that profile.

As far as these ponderings...I've been reading the Bible off and on for decades now. These pondering aren't anything new with me. So it's not like I'm just now thinking thru some of this.

I share your sentiments to a degree. The Lord has erected a barrier between the living and the dead and when He erects a barrier it is a barrier. Consider the following;

The Law of Moses called for the death of a Necromancer
The single result of calling Samuel up was death within a day for Saul
The various people who were resurrected in scripture are not recorded in their views
Our Lord Jesus never spoke about His stay in Hades
Paul states that to report on his trip to Hades was "unlawful"


So it is clear that The Lord wants this great gulf between the living and the dead. But what little information He does allow, especially that of Lazarus and the rich man, produces information and produces speculation, because nobody actually can report what it is like to be in Hades. What we can experience though, now in this life, is the tremendous power of the soul to feel, calculate and decide (emotions, mind and will). From the simple actions of working through our day to the power of suggestion that top athletes use, the soul is multifunctional and very real. So maybe we, in our lack of experience of Hades, underestimate the abilities of the soul when it has been sundered from the body and spirit. Could it be that it is actually "liberated" in a sense?

watchinginawe
Jan 4th 2013, 12:48 PM
From the simple actions of working through our day to the power of suggestion that top athletes use, the soul is multifunctional and very real. So maybe we, in our lack of experience of Hades, underestimate the abilities of the soul when it has been sundered from the body and spirit. Could it be that it is actually "liberated" in a sense? :hmm: Let me add here something that helped me a little in these ponderings. The sense that a soul is "liberated" is a dualistic notion. Dualism holds that the material world (that which is made of matter and exists in this universe) is bad or imperfect or imperfectable; so the soul thus is trapped within a material body (a body of matter) and death fixes the condition by separating the perfectable from imperfection. But the Bible tells us that while death promotes us to a new state, a state that is desirable (for the Christian), it also is a temporal state waiting for the reunification of our soul to a quickened body in the resurrection to become complete, or perfected. This stands apart from dualism which places no value on a perfected eternal body, soul, and spirit; but rather finds completion, or "liberation" in the event of death.

Rullion Green
Jan 4th 2013, 12:50 PM
Why do you assume I'm easily shaken by this topic? I'm simply saying the majority of us, including myself, believe souls either go to heaven or hell when they die, awaiting resurrection and judgment. According to those passages I provided, if taken literal about departed souls, this means they have body parts, such as tongues, fingers, etc. Why should that cause you concern if I choose to ponder things like that? No way do I believe souls have body parts. So my point would be, maybe souls don't go anywhere after a person has died, the fact the other things mentioned about souls shouldn't be understood as literal. Who knows then, maybe they sleep afterall. But don't take that to mean that is what I'm concluding, since I'm not. But at the same time, I'm trying to make sense of it all.

Explain to me what you mean by a naturalistic worldview, since I'm not familiar with what that means. After telling me the meaning, I will then tell you if I honestly see myself fitting that profile.

As far as these ponderings...I've been reading the Bible off and on for decades now. These pondering aren't anything new with me. So it's not like I'm just now thinking thru some of this.

No probs, as i said it was out of concern not an attack. I assumed you were easily shaken by these words you wrote " Kind of makes me wonder at times, some of the things we believe, whether it really makes a lick of sense afterall, after thinking thru things a little deeper?"

If when you think things through a little deeper they dont make a lick of sense, how can you say your faith is not shaken ? Are you ok with believing things that dont make a lick of sense to you....is that even possible ?.

Seemed to me that you were having trouble, but if i got that wrong ...sorry.

Walls
Jan 4th 2013, 01:07 PM
:hmm: Let me add here something that helped me a little in these ponderings. The sense that a soul is "liberated" is a dualistic notion. Dualism holds that the material world (that which is made of matter and exists in this universe) is bad or imperfect or imperfectable, so the soul thus is trapped within a material body (a body of matter) and death fixes the condition. But the Bible tells us that while death promotes us to a new state, a state that is desirable (for the Christian), it also is a temporal state waiting for the reunification of our soul to a quickened body in the resurrection to become complete, or perfected. This stands apart from dualism which places no value on a perfected eternal body, soul, and spirit; but rather finds completion, or "liberation" in the event of death.

Yes. I ran the risk of that one by musing. That is why I put "liberated" in inverted commas. You are absolutely correct. 2nd Corinthians 5 clearly shows what you have said above. I meant what I said more from the point of view that it is the sundered soul of man that can experience either "paradise" as did the criminal on the cross, or suffering as did the rich man in Luke 16. No matter how good (in the sense of bliss) a life one has on this earth, the bible never even comes close to saying that it could be paradise. Yet in the sundered condition of death the soul can (and does in the case of believers) experience "paradise" in Hades (Lk.23:43).

But your comments also show how narrow the margin is between speculation and false doctrine. I'll be even more careful in the future.

watchinginawe
Jan 4th 2013, 01:14 PM
But your comments also show how narrow the margin is between speculation and false doctrine. I'll be even more careful in the future. I mention it because I have been guilty and likewise glad to try to be more careful in my words on the subject. :yes:

RabbiKnife
Jan 4th 2013, 01:52 PM
There are many Christians that believe man is composed of spirit, soul and body.

There are just as many Christians that believe man is composed of body and soul.

The debate goes on ad nauseum.

Here's what we should all agree on.

Man is composed of a corporeal (flesh) component, and a non-corporeal (non-flesh) component. Whether the non-corporeal part is divisible further is academic. At death (as we understand it), the corporeal part dies and the incorporeal part goes somewhere. If we believe the teachings of Jesus and Paul, that incorporeal part goes immediately into the presence of Jesus.

At the resurrection of the dead, the two parts will be reunited, although the corporeal part with be gloriously changed into an immortal body like that of Jesus'.

Anything else is, for the most part, either a design of our own self-delusion or speculation.

Walls
Jan 4th 2013, 03:06 PM
There are many Christians that believe man is composed of spirit, soul and body.

There are just as many Christians that believe man is composed of body and soul.

The debate goes on ad nauseum.

Here's what we should all agree on.

Man is composed of a corporeal (flesh) component, and a non-corporeal (non-flesh) component. Whether the non-corporeal part is divisible further is academic. At death (as we understand it), the corporeal part dies and the incorporeal part goes somewhere. If we believe the teachings of Jesus and Paul, that incorporeal part goes immediately into the presence of Jesus.

At the resurrection of the dead, the two parts will be reunited, although the corporeal part with be gloriously changed into an immortal body like that of Jesus'.

Anything else is, for the most part, either a design of our own self-delusion or speculation.

While I applaud your attempt at conciliation, I must say that these parts of man are dealt with comprehensively in scripture. What their destiny is, is vital to our Christian walk. For instance in 1st Peter 1:9-10; "... receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you."

What happens to the body is equally important because the bodies of Christians make up the Body of Christ (1st Corinthians 6:15, 12:12, 18). If the body has no future, Christ's Body has no future. That is why our Lord said in Matthew 16:18; "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." The Gates of Hades keep the souls of dead men locked away. And as long as they are locked in Hades the Church suffers loss as the bodies of men are but dust, not "living stones" for this House (1st Pet.2:5). Added to this, in Romans 8:23 we are constantly groaning for the redemption of our bodies. This scripture gives us hope that our anguish will one day be stilled.

RabbiKnife
Jan 4th 2013, 03:16 PM
But many Christians completely disagree with your analysis of where the incorporeal part goes at the time of death of the body, so Scripture is not as cut and dried as you would like.

divaD
Jan 4th 2013, 03:36 PM
No probs, as i said it was out of concern not an attack. I assumed you were easily shaken by these words you wrote " Kind of makes me wonder at times, some of the things we believe, whether it really makes a lick of sense afterall, after thinking thru things a little deeper?"

If when you think things through a little deeper they dont make a lick of sense, how can you say your faith is not shaken ? Are you ok with believing things that dont make a lick of sense to you....is that even possible ?.

Seemed to me that you were having trouble, but if i got that wrong ...sorry.



First of all, in no way shape or form did I take your post as an attack. So if I gave the impression that I felt offended or something, that would not be the case. You made it very clear that it was out of concern, and I indeed got that. :)

Now as to why I even said that to begin with, what you have me quoted as saying. That was only in regards to this particular subject, and not meaning the Bible as a whole. So what I was meaning then, here I am concluding souls depart to some location upon death. While at the same time concluding souls don't really have body parts. So then, in my mind anyway, how does it really make a lick of sense then, that souls literally depart to some location upon death, instead of sleeping, when souls don't really have literal body parts, tho Scriptures indicate they do? Then I'm left with Scriptures like the following, which I fully realize is a matter of interpretation.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


If souls are already literally in heaven as I believe, then how does the following passage make a lick of sense when it says..And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

If one is literally already in heaven as a disembodied soul upon death, then they would already be where Jesus is, and that Jesus wouldn't have to come again, , and receive them unto Himself; that where He is, they may be also. They would already be there. So anyway, that would be the context of why I stated that to begin with.

Rullion Green
Jan 4th 2013, 04:37 PM
First of all, in no way shape or form did I take your post as an attack. So if I gave the impression that I felt offended or something, that would not be the case. You made it very clear that it was out of concern, and I indeed got that. :)

Now as to why I even said that to begin with, what you have me quoted as saying. That was only in regards to this particular subject, and not meaning the Bible as a whole. So what I was meaning then, here I am concluding souls depart to some location upon death. While at the same time concluding souls don't really have body parts. So then, in my mind anyway, how does it really make a lick of sense then, that souls literally depart to some location upon death, instead of sleeping, when souls don't really have literal body parts, tho Scriptures indicate they do? Then I'm left with Scriptures like the following, which I fully realize is a matter of interpretation.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


If souls are already literally in heaven as I believe, then how does the following passage make a lick of sense when it says..And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

If one is literally already in heaven as a disembodied soul upon death, then they would already be where Jesus is, and that Jesus wouldn't have to come again, , and receive them unto Himself; that where He is, they may be also. They would already be there. So anyway, that would be the context of why I stated that to begin with.

You may have heard of the "already not yet" explanation of many types of doctrines. As scriptures states God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus. Ep 2:6 and it's pretty obvious were are not there in a physical sense but we are in another sense (spiritual) as we are united with Him by faith and He is at work in us to will and to do His good pleasure by His Spirit through us. There will be a day however when we will be able to commune with Him physically, hence the already not yet. We have a shadow of the ultimate reality and of final things.

Anyway said that to say this that an already not yet type of thinking could be applied to the heavenly realm when we die, People are present with Christ at the moment that have died in faith, but there is more to come when the climax of history is revealed and the books are opened and the judgement day comes.

The already not yet might help you find a balance between making it an either or type of deal.

There are people now enjoying heaven as to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, We dont know exactly how this presence with the Lord works itself out in the period between death and the resurrection, but its safe to say they now enjoy fellowship with Christ on some level, as we do now who live in faith but there is more to come a fulfillment if you like. That is what i take your passage to be talking about in john a fulfillment of the hope that we have that we will live with Him post resurrection when we are given bodies like His (1 John 3:2)

I dont know if it helps any, no doubt there are better answers i was just concerned about the way you wrote. I would hesitate to take any literal meaning from the book of revelation personally and be dogmatic about it, these other passages can be explained easily enough though.

fewarechosen
Jan 4th 2013, 05:22 PM
1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

that scripture above speaks to it, it also relates to how man was made in Gods image, and remember water and blood came out of Christs side.

in these scriptures below notice Christ gives up the Ghost and water and blood come out of where he is pierced. it relates to the three that agree in one.

sorry for huge font no idea why it does that sometimes.

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

and the water that came out is not h2o but this water
Joh_4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
Joh_4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
Joh_7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Walls
Jan 4th 2013, 05:28 PM
But many Christians completely disagree with your analysis of where the incorporeal part goes at the time of death of the body, so Scripture is not as cut and dried as you would like.

You are right. Many disagree. But what do you think of their arguments, and what do you think of the scriptures I use? In my doings with my fellow brethren, I have found that the single biggest obstacle to taking the scriptures I use is the age-old belief among Christians that when you die you either go the heaven or to hell. But when one accosts them as to the basis of their beliefs, they can't seem to find the scriptures for it. For instance, the word "heaven", "heavens" and "heavenlies" appear just over 290 times in the New Testament. But not one of the verses in which they are found even alludes to the "non-corporeal" part going to heaven after death. Yet from Genesis 2 when God made man, to Ecclesiastes Chapters 3 and 12, plus a detailed study of our Lord's death, the destinations of body, soul and spirit are laid forth in plain language.

Then when we investigate the various resurrections coupled with 1st Corinthians 15 and 1st Thessalonians 4 and 5, we see that indeed the three parts feature again.

Added to this, if man was designed as the Temple of God, would he not also possess the three parts that the Tabernacle and the Temple were made with, viz. Outer Court, Holy Place and Holy of Holies? So not only verses like 1st Thessalonians 5:23 show three distinct parts, and the death of our Lord Jesus show Him committing His spirit to the Father's hand, His body to the tomb and Him being in the heart of the earth all at one time, but the types and shadows of scripture also allude to three parts. Even the pictures contained in Israel's journey from Egypt to Wilderness to Good Land allude to the dealing of these three parts in the Christian walk.

When the parts of man are understood then doctrine can be formulated to allow the Christian to apply his faith and energy in the right direction. For instance, we have groups of Christians who believe that Christians cannot sin after rebirth. They base their doctrine on 1 verse, 1st John 3:9. "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." But if they knew that only the spirit is reborn according to John 3:6, and not the soul and the body, then they would not base their daily walk on such a vain doctrine.

If I were to judge, based on my talks with many Christians, even on this Forum, I would hazard the opinion that it is not the heap of scriptural evidence that is the problem, but the giving up of the cherished idea that after death one's problems are all over and one lands in heaven (with whatever concepts of bliss this may engender).

But if I know that even after rebirth the soul needs salvation, and the body redemption, my focus will be totally different. Then verses like Philippians 2:12, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;" are easily understood and saint, far from engaging in meaningless disputes about salvation by works, knows that this applies to the soul and not the spirit.

RabbiKnife
Jan 4th 2013, 05:36 PM
I think the Temple analogy is straining at gnats.

I have already stated my position.

As Paul said, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Where? I don't know and I don't care.

Is there a physical resurrection in the future. Certainly.

What will eternity be like? Again, I will be with Jesus, and how that works is of absolute no concern of mine.

Watchman
Jan 4th 2013, 06:51 PM
I think the Temple analogy is straining at gnats.
Opinion duly noted. I heartily and respectfully disagree. The comparison of the constitution of man to that of the temple is congruent down to the rather fine details. Maybe a thread...umm, another thread...on this should be explored?

blessings,

Watchman :)

RabbiKnife
Jan 4th 2013, 06:59 PM
Perhaps with others.

I'll concentrate on the enumeration of angelic hosts rhythmically gyrating on the area of greatest circumference of a stainless steel temporary support for clothing reconstruction purposes.

Watchman
Jan 4th 2013, 07:11 PM
Perhaps with others.

I'll concentrate on the enumeration of angelic hosts rhythmically gyrating on the area of greatest circumference of a stainless steel temporary support for clothing reconstruction purposes.
That should keep you busy for a few picoseconds, yes? :rofl:

RabbiKnife
Jan 4th 2013, 07:15 PM
That should keep you busy for a few picoseconds, yes? :rofl:

It appears to be an academic theological exercise worthy of the devotion of one's life...

:)

Walls
Jan 4th 2013, 09:26 PM
I think the Temple analogy is straining at gnats.

I have already stated my position.

As Paul said, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Where? I don't know and I don't care.

Is there a physical resurrection in the future. Certainly.

What will eternity be like? Again, I will be with Jesus, and how that works is of absolute no concern of mine.

I too note your answer with respect and full support of your freedom before The Lord to hold this position.

BCF
Jan 5th 2013, 04:26 AM
Perhaps with others.

I'll concentrate on the enumeration of angelic hosts rhythmically gyrating on the area of greatest circumference of a stainless steel temporary support for clothing reconstruction purposes.

Boy......I hope God can figure out what you are tring to teach His children in this dying world. I do not believe that God has given you such a gift in theology to use it in confusing the crap out of folks.

Why didn't you just come out and say that you will concentrate on watching strippers dancing around a pole. I guess b/c if you would have said in plain English what you were saying......you would not be able to hide behind your theological wisdom.

JMO,

Dave

BCF
Jan 5th 2013, 04:30 AM
But many Christians completely disagree with your analysis of where the incorporeal part goes at the time of death of the body, so Scripture is not as cut and dried as you would like.

Maybe it is.....and we just refuse to see it that way b/c we tend to believe that all are going to heaven someday.....but we are not all going to make it.....no matter how smart we may think we are or how many good deeds we can perform. It will still not be good enough for Our Lord.

Dave

wb380
Jan 5th 2013, 09:00 PM
Walls...Could you please explain more about this salvation of the soul and redemption of the body?

Watchman
Jan 6th 2013, 01:28 AM
Boy......I hope God can figure out what you are tring to teach His children in this dying world. I do not believe that God has given you such a gift in theology to use it in confusing the crap out of folks.

Why didn't you just come out and say that you will concentrate on watching strippers dancing around a pole. I guess b/c if you would have said in plain English what you were saying......you would not be able to hide behind your theological wisdom.

JMO,

Dave
:rofl:
..........................................