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Curtis
May 21st 2013, 10:05 PM
2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


According to these two scriptures, God called us and saved us before the world began, before time even existed. He called us, saved us, justified us, and he also glorified us. These are all past tense, not future events that will happen.
So if this is true then how should we see our self's growing in Christ if we are already saved, and glorified?

Are we suppose see our self's slowly growing from one spiritual plateau to another? Is It the Spirit man inside, the hidden man of the heart that's changing? Or are we supposed to be looking at the man in the mirror, and seeing who we already are as saved, and glorified from the beginning?

Maybe it is just our behavior that is growing based on our Wisdom given unto us by God of who we already are. I believe my self it is our understanding that is growing, which causes us to see who we have always been from the beginning.


James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
James 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.


Are we this man?

Curtis
May 22nd 2013, 04:25 AM
2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Cor 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

When we look into a mirror who do we see? We see our self's, and what are we seeing in our self's? The Glory of the Lord! Our behavior is based on who we believe we are now not what we are turning into. We can not act like this person unless we really believe we are this person. The Lord has declared us already Holy, Pure, just in his sight.

keck553
May 22nd 2013, 04:46 AM
Paul insteucts us to renew our minds.

Any race worth running is challenging, tough and a marathon.

Luke
May 22nd 2013, 01:21 PM
If we've already arrived, I don't see the point of all the suffering, trials and tribulations........seems meaningless.

Curtis
May 22nd 2013, 01:46 PM
If we've already arrived, I don't see the point of all the suffering, trials and tribulations........seems meaningless.

I do believe we still suffer in this life. The word "suffer" means "to experience", there will always be people that will disagree to the truth, and that hurts our hearts. Jesus experienced this in his earthly ministry. In this world we will suffer tribulations, but in Christ there is peace.

Luke
May 22nd 2013, 01:59 PM
I do believe we still suffer in this life. The word "suffer" means "to experience", there will always be people that will disagree to the truth, and that hurts our hearts. Jesus experienced this in his earthly ministry. In this world we will suffer tribulations, but in Christ there is peace.

If we have arrived already, what would be the point of suffering?

Simply believing we are already complete and mature, doesn't necessarily make it so.

keck553
May 22nd 2013, 02:10 PM
If we have arrived already, what would be the point of suffering?

Simply believing we are already complete and mature, doesn't necessarily make it so.

I think a lot of people read "believe" in the Bible as a mental exercise.

Luke
May 22nd 2013, 02:27 PM
I think a lot of people read "believe" in the Bible as a mental exercise.

When the pastor stands at the pulpit and declares you saved and arrived already, what's a person to do but just sit there and believe?

......regardless if the Bible disagrees. ;)

peace -

luigi
May 22nd 2013, 02:43 PM
My opinion is God saw everything before it happened all the way to the end; after which he rested on the seventh day.
As this seventh day in which the saints shall also rest (Hebrews 4:4-6, & 8-11), has yet to physically transpire; God's calling, saving, justifying, and glorifying us would represent events as we go through life.

Curtis
May 22nd 2013, 02:50 PM
When the pastor stands at the pulpit and declares you saved and arrived already, what's a person to do but just sit there and believe?

......regardless if the Bible disagrees. ;)

peace -

Did you believe that God was going to save you someday in the future, or did you believe in his finished work?

luigi
May 22nd 2013, 03:20 PM
When I believed that Christ died for my sins is when I was saved. As to when he justifies and glorifies the saints, I believe is after the potter finishes his working on the clay at the end.

mailmandan
May 22nd 2013, 09:08 PM
When I believed that Christ died for my sins is when I was saved. As to when he justifies and glorifies the saints, I believe is after the potter finishes his working on the clay at the end.

You simply believed "mental assent" that Christ died for your sins or you believed/placed your faith in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation? (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Do we have to wait until the end in order to become justified by faith or is Romans 5:1 a present reality for believers? Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ..

luigi
May 22nd 2013, 09:19 PM
If you have peace today with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, then I guess you have been justified.
I, however, tend to believe that I need to wait for my redemption as a son, when I will no longer be accused
by Satan before God (Revelation 12:10-12), which I interpret as the blessing which occurs on day 1,335 (Daniel 12:12) after the great tribulation.

keck553
May 22nd 2013, 09:27 PM
When the pastor stands at the pulpit and declares you saved and arrived already, what's a person to do but just sit there and believe?

......regardless if the Bible disagrees. ;)

peace -

Sorry, my salvation doesn't come through the words of a man.

Curtis
May 22nd 2013, 11:32 PM
When I believed that Christ died for my sins is when I was saved. As to when he justifies and glorifies the saints, I believe is after the potter finishes his working on the clay at the end.

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

The potter is done with you. You have been declared holy, unblameable, and unreproveable in his sight!!!
Do you believe this? You can not begin to act like this person until you believe you are this person.

luigi
May 22nd 2013, 11:43 PM
As I stated in my previous post Curtis, Satan will no longer be able to accuse the saints before God when the blessing is bestowed on day 1,335 following the tribulation period.

Until then we are all being accused by Satan before God, thereby indicating we are not yet unblameable or unreproveable.

Luke
May 23rd 2013, 12:51 AM
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

The potter is done with you. You have been declared holy, unblameable, and unreproveable in his sight!!!
Do you believe this? You can not begin to act like this person until you believe you are this person.
If the potter were done, we'd all have glorified bodies.

We don't, so He's not done.

Luke
May 23rd 2013, 12:52 AM
Sorry, my salvation doesn't come through the words of a man.

That was my point. :)

Luke
May 23rd 2013, 12:56 AM
Did you believe that God was going to save you someday in the future, or did you believe in his finished work?

His finished work opens up the door, providing grace to empower us to overcome.

Curtis
May 23rd 2013, 02:09 AM
His finished work opens up the door, providing grace to empower us to overcome.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

If you are a child of God, you are a overcomer.

keck553
May 23rd 2013, 03:03 AM
That was my point. :)

Amen

.....



.

Luke
May 23rd 2013, 03:37 AM
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

If you are a child of God, you are a overcomer.
Again, we are back to the word "believe" and what this means in the life of a believer. Your statements suggests believing is in an acknowledgement of who Christ is, yet demons believe just the same and these are not overcomers.

Curtis
May 23rd 2013, 12:24 PM
Again, we are back to the word "believe" and what this means in the life of a believer. Your statements suggests believing is in an acknowledgement of who Christ is, yet demons believe just the same and these are not overcomers.

The word, "believeth" means to have faith. The people who have faith, they know they have it by the actions that it produces in them. Even the Devil believe and tremble

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Our faith is what overcomes. If you have faith you can't help but be a overcomer.

Salvation is not given unto angels, but to the lost sheep of Israel.

Noeb
May 23rd 2013, 12:46 PM
Devils believe there is one God.....is what it says. Big deal. They know Jesus. Big deal. They can't believe on Christ for salvation (and all that includes) because it's not available to them.