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Hermit7
Jun 20th 2013, 10:34 PM
I have an issue for you: Say if I made a vow that if I remember something then the Lord can take away my salvation to God. And let's say that I remembered that thing even when I didn't mean to. I regretted that vow. I then prayed for God to release of that foolish and I asked for His forgiveness. Now here's the question, will I have to accept Christ all over again? Also if I lost salvation, how would my prayer reach God without the Holy Spirit in me at that moment when I fell?

jayne
Jun 21st 2013, 01:40 AM
Here's what I've told you before.

Any thought that tries to convince you that your soul can be damned to hell for any other reason than the rejection of the gift of grace through Jesus Christ is a lie from the Father of Lies.

Eternal damnation comes only from dying in a lost condition - having refused the gift of grace. And once you have been saved by the blood of Jesus - there is no part of your mental illness that can make you "unsaved" or damned.

I can tell you nothing more.

Here's what Dani H has told you more than once:

1 John 3:19-20 - "This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence, even if our conscience condemns us, that God is greater than our conscience, and He knows all things."

Nick
Jun 21st 2013, 01:52 AM
Here's what I've told you before.

Any thought that tries to convince you that your soul can be damned to hell for any other reason than the rejection of the gift of grace through Jesus Christ is a lie from the Father of Lies.

Eternal damnation comes only from dying in a lost condition - having refused the gift of grace. And once you have been saved by the blood of Jesus - there is no part of your mental illness that can make you "unsaved" or damned.

I can tell you nothing more.

Here's what Dani H has told you more than once:

1 John 3:19-20 - "This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence, even if our conscience condemns us, that God is greater than our conscience, and He knows all things."

BUT....we are warned not to make vows to God we cannot keep. Jesus said: 33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.[a]"

Consequences? The lake of fire or hades?

Aviyah
Jun 21st 2013, 02:38 AM
This is a misunderstanding of true salvation which cannot be revoked (by definition) nor would you ever want it revoked (by renewal of mind). Plus, your vow implied you were assuming power over God (if I do "this", then God MUST do "this") - a misunderstanding of God, Who is not bound by your promises.

Once saved, always saved. The key is being saved in the first place.

Jade99
Jun 21st 2013, 10:19 PM
BUT....we are warned not to make vows to God we cannot keep. Jesus said: 33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.[a]"

Consequences? The lake of fire or hades?

No Nick that is still a works based thinking. Works based salvation is basically saying you must do this or that or obey this or that to be saved or to remain saved and that's not what the bible states. But you're right, we're not to swear by anything, but those of us in Christ, if we break any of God's commandments, we won't lose our salvation. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faith and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It doesn't give us a license to do what we want to do, but we still have the sinful nature inside of us and it's contrary to the Spirit of God in us, which is why it's important to feed your spirit by the studying your bible, pray without ceasing, filling yourself with godly things that will give God the glory and the praise, like listening and singing hymns.

The lake of fire is for those only that decided not to ever trust Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. They didn't believe at all. Those are the ones who gets the final punishment so to speak.

Our sins (the body of Christ) were nailed to the cross and when we confess our sins, he remembers them no more, because the debt was already paid in full.

Hope this make sense.

jayne
Jun 21st 2013, 10:38 PM
Please do not turn this thread into a debate on salvation.

Hermit7 by his own admission suffers from a mental illness called scrupulosity has bouts of fear that ANY random thing he does will take away his salvation. It could be using a certain supermarket or watching a certain TV show or making a promise to the Lord and not keeping it.

He is ill, by his own admission in many threads, gets help from counseling in real life, yet when he slips, he comes here.

Please stick to addressing the OP only.

Bnjmn
Jun 21st 2013, 10:43 PM
I agree with the others who have said that once you are saved, you cannot lose your salvation. There is no deed of man that can make you lose your salvation.

Nick
Jun 22nd 2013, 11:09 PM
Please do not turn this thread into a debate on salvation.

I was speaking in hyperbole (Jesus did that too). I don't take it literally when Jesus says to cut your hand off or gouge your eye out in order to avoid sin. Nonetheless, Scripture and Jesus's teachings suggest against making vows and oaths for the very reason quoted in my post, which has nothing to do with salvation.

LandShark
Jun 22nd 2013, 11:20 PM
I have an issue for you: Say if I made a vow that if I remember something then the Lord can take away my salvation to God. And let's say that I remembered that thing even when I didn't mean to. I regretted that vow. I then prayed for God to release of that foolish and I asked for His forgiveness. Now here's the question, will I have to accept Christ all over again? Also if I lost salvation, how would my prayer reach God without the Holy Spirit in me at that moment when I fell?

I know this will sound odd, but I can make the point clear... but what you are describing is really legalism. I am a Sabbath keeper, our congregation gathers for the other Feasts, we eat a biblically clean diet, etc. Many Christians look at my walk and see legalism. Truly, I am simply walking my faith out as I understand it, as I interpret what I read, as I feel led. It would be legalism if membership to our congregation was based on you conforming to OUR understanding. It is legalism when we take man made decrees OR God's commandments and use them as a litmus test to determine membership to HIS body. You made a vow, it is sin to break a vow, but Messiah died not only for our unknowing unintentional sin, he died also for irrational un-thought-out decisions we make while in an imperfect state. That doesn't condone sin and I don't endorse the breaking of a vow, it is sin. But is God seeking to condemn or save? It is seeking to forgive or destroy? The just live by faith Hermit, and faith includes HEARING God... so turn off the distractions for a time (phone, radio, TV, etc.) and get alone with Him so you can empty yourself before Him and then stay there and wait to hear something in your spirit. Because what you are doing to yourself is a form of legalism... it is just self-imposed which actually tells me He is convicting you and trying to draw you closer. So stop beating yourself up and go get closer! :)

LandShark
Jun 22nd 2013, 11:23 PM
Please do not turn this thread into a debate on salvation.

Hermit7 by his own admission suffers from a mental illness called scrupulosity has bouts of fear that ANY random thing he does will take away his salvation. It could be using a certain supermarket or watching a certain TV show or making a promise to the Lord and not keeping it.

He is ill, by his own admission in many threads, gets help from counseling in real life, yet when he slips, he comes here.

Please stick to addressing the OP only.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jayne again.

Aviyah
Jun 23rd 2013, 02:38 AM
Hermit7 by his own admission suffers from a mental illness called scrupulosity has bouts of fear that ANY random thing he does will take away his salvation.

Ah okay, in that case I will find some purely Scriptural references for you, Hermit! If you ever find that you are fearful of losing salvation, read back through these - in fact, I would encourage you to memorize these by heart so that you can fight against the enemy wherever you are and at any time!

1. Romans 8:38–39
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2. John 10:28–29
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

3. John 6:37–40
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

4. Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

5. Ephesians 2:8–9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

This is my favorite one:

Numbers 23:19
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

Raybob
Jun 24th 2013, 05:30 PM
Ah okay, in that case I will find some purely Scriptural references for you, Hermit! If you ever find that you are fearful of losing salvation, read back through these - in fact, I would encourage you to memorize these by heart so that you can fight against the enemy wherever you are and at any time!

1. Romans 8:38–39
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2. John 10:28–29
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

3. John 6:37–40
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

4. Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

5. Ephesians 2:8–9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

This is my favorite one:

Numbers 23:19
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

AMEN. Plus, you GOTTA include:

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
(2Ti 1:7)

Gadgeteer
Jun 24th 2013, 06:51 PM
I have an issue for you: Say if I made a vow that if I remember something then the Lord can take away my salvation to God. And let's say that I remembered that thing even when I didn't mean to. I regretted that vow. I then prayed for God to release of that foolish and I asked for His forgiveness. Now here's the question, will I have to accept Christ all over again? Also if I lost salvation, how would my prayer reach God without the Holy Spirit in me at that moment when I fell?


Any thought that tries to convince you that your soul can be damned to hell for any other reason than the rejection of the gift of grace through Jesus Christ is a lie from the Father of Lies.

Eternal damnation comes only from dying in a lost condition - having refused the gift of grace. And once you have been saved by the blood of Jesus - there is no part of your mental illness that can make you "unsaved" or damned.

I can tell you nothing more.

Here's what Dani H has told you more than once:

1 John 3:19-20 - "This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence, even if our conscience condemns us, that God is greater than our conscience, and He knows all things." Hermit, what Jayne said is outstanding.

Let's get to the foundation -- what is "salvation"? What did you do to become "saved"? Is it like a magic incantation, say the right words (maybe when the moon is just right) and you're saved? Is it something you ordered from a catalog? Those may sound like silly questions, but they touch on misperceptions many people have.

You were saved when you believed in Jesus, received His presence into your heart and soul, and received the Holy Spirit likewise. And now you're sinless --- right? Wrong! You and I struggle constantly with sin. But we struggle not with our MUSCLE, but with our faith, and the Holy Spirit's muscle! It is by the power of the Spirit that we put to death our flesh (Rom8:12-14, 2Tim1:12-14).

Faith. What does that mean? Mere mental assent, without heart (or deeds!) change? No! (James2:17-26, especially 19).

Faith rests in God, and embodies James4:6-10; it is to draw near to God CERTAIN that God will draw near to you. see Hebrews11:6, "certainty"!

We win against sin and our flesh, by not even fighting. We fill our hearts and souls so full of Jesus and the Spirit (1Pet5:18!!!) that there is no ROOM for sin. The closer we are to Him, the more our heart becomes His heart, and the stronger we are against sin.


Hermit7 by his own admission suffers from a mental illness called scrupulosity has bouts of fear that ANY random thing he does will take away his salvation. It could be using a certain supermarket or watching a certain TV show or making a promise to the Lord and not keeping it.

He is ill, by his own admission in many threads, gets help from counseling in real life, yet when he slips, he comes here.I'm not qualified to be a psychiatrist (though I play one on TV!) --- but --- there are some things I'm qualified to say.

ANY person can write down "affirmation" verses --- like Philip4:13, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me".

And Rom8:31, "If God is for us, who can be against us?"

And John16:33, "In this world you will have tribulation; but take courage, for I have overcome the world!"

And 1Jn4:4, "You are of God, little children, and have overcome (evil spirits); because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."

Now here's a really big one --- write this down on a small slip of paper, and paste it on your forehead. (Okay don't actually do that; but put it up somewhere that you can read it constantly.) "I will NEVER leave you NOR forsake you." Heb13:5.

We know the wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life (Rom6:23) --- But God has promised He WILL NOT revoke (repent-of!) His gifts and calling! (Rom11:29)

That's it, Hermit. Salvation is not sinlessness, but sin-LESS-ness --- we are not sinless, but we who saved SIN LESS. Very much less; when WE sin, it grieves our hearts and souls, because it grieves JESUS who is IN our hearts and souls. One would have to walk in sin to evict Jesus and the Spirit from one's heart; "sin" is the opposite of "faith".

You have given your burdens to Jesus; so stop taking them back --- let Him have them permanently. repeat these affirmations, and "draw near to God" (read James4!!!).

What are you to say to satan? Something like, "I rebuke you, foul devil, I'm not afraid of you --- God's given me POWER over you"? (Luke10:17-19)

NO!!!

Don't say anything to satan, he's not worth it! He was defeated in your personal struggles, long ago; from atop Jesus' Cross. Oh read Luke10:17-19, yes we have power over all evil. NOW READ VERSE 20!!!


"Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you; rejoice instead that your names are written in Heaven."

The victory is already yours; stop throwing it away. STAND on it, stand on HIS LOVE that wrought your salvation from the Cross. Your name was on His lips as He hung there, dying; now picture your old self dying too. A day and a half later (the third day) He arose, and SO DID YOU!!! You are united both in His death (your old sinful fighting self dies), and you are united in His resurrection (you are raised a new person).

It is no longer the CROSS that defines you --- that symbolizes what you WERE, that you HAPPILY LOST --- what symbolizes you now is the EMPTY TOMB!

For the old Hermit is no longer in that tomb, "ripening" with the stench of death and sin under the burial sheets; no my friend, the NEW "Hermit" is walking hand in hand with Jesus.

Stand on that, and stop struggling; all the struggle was done long ago, by JESUS as He hung there dying. Dying for YOU!

You are the victor; you are the overcomer. Already a done deal, for you serve the greatest power in the Universe --- and no wind, no boulder, no power on Earth, or in the Universe, can even begin to turn what He has done for you, in you, and to you. Walk confidently in His love, and His triumph.

And when the devil taps you on the shoulder and says, "Excuse me, you dropped this?" Think to yourself, "No I didn't drop that, I THREW IT AWAY --- he's an idiot."

And just walk away without saying anything, thinking how much you love Jesus for how much He loved you.

:hug:

Gadgeteer
Jun 24th 2013, 06:57 PM
Ah okay, in that case I will find some purely Scriptural references for you, Hermit! If you ever find that you are fearful of losing salvation, read back through these - in fact, I would encourage you to memorize these by heart so that you can fight against the enemy wherever you are and at any time!

1. Romans 8:38–39
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2. John 10:28–29
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

3. John 6:37–40
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

4. Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

5. Ephesians 2:8–9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

This is my favorite one:

Numbers 23:19
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

Those are all very good! :-)


AMEN. Plus, you GOTTA include:

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
(2Ti 1:7) That's a good one too!

Hermit, are you writing these down? Stop fighting; the fight was over, two thousand years ago. Jesus already won it for you.

:-)

Gadgeteer
Jun 24th 2013, 07:04 PM
RE "vows" --- God is perfect, and we're not; and He knows it. If one makes a wrong vow, then repent of it --- God is also perfectly just, and understands us completely.

Try to imagine the depths of love God has for you; the grace and patience, the incredible PLAN and hope.

"For I know the plans I have for you, for prosperity and not adversity, to give you a future and a hope; then you will come to Me and pray to Me, and I will hear you; you will seek Me and you will find Me, when you seek with all your heart --- I WILL BE FOUND BY YOU!!!" (Jer29:11-13)


That is a "keeper" too, Hermit! Rejoice in the Lord always, again I say rejoice. Sing His praises all the day, for He is worthy. Exalt and glorify His name, let His joy fill your heart and soul (John15:11)!

For eternity has already begun in your heart, and in your soul; there will be no change when Jesus returns, for He is ALREADY WITH YOU in your heart and spirit JUST as much as He will be when He's here physically.

You are now an "eternity being"; a spectator in this world, "tourist" if you will --- all belongs to Him, you and I belong to Him. His world, His troubles, and His triumphs; we are not our own, we are bought with a price. THEREFORE GLORIFY GOD!!! (1Cor6:20)

Sing His praises, worship Him in spirit and in truth; and His Son-light will fill your soul and chase ALL the shadows away, FOREVER!!!

mailmandan
Jun 24th 2013, 07:55 PM
Here's what I've told you before.

Any thought that tries to convince you that your soul can be damned to hell for any other reason than the rejection of the gift of grace through Jesus Christ is a lie from the Father of Lies.

Eternal damnation comes only from dying in a lost condition - having refused the gift of grace. And once you have been saved by the blood of Jesus - there is no part of your mental illness that can make you "unsaved" or damned.

I can tell you nothing more.

Here's what Dani H has told you more than once:

1 John 3:19-20 - "This is how we will know we belong to the truth and will convince our conscience in His presence, even if our conscience condemns us, that God is greater than our conscience, and He knows all things."

Amen! Jesus is the Door. He is not a revolving door based on vows.

Gadgeteer
Jun 25th 2013, 12:17 AM
You are now an "eternity being"; a spectator in this world, "tourist" if you will --- all belongs to Him, you and I belong to Him. His world, His troubles, and His triumphs; we are not our own, we are bought with a price. THEREFORE GLORIFY GOD!!! (1Cor6:20)

Sing His praises, worship Him in spirit and in truth; and His Son-light will fill your soul and chase ALL the shadows away, FOREVER!!!

How many of you read this, and perhaps even agreed with it --- but DO YOU?

Do you literally lift your hands to the Lord? DO you sing His praises? DOES your heart rejoice in His presence?

This is NOT just lip service --- prayer is like ROCKET FUEL to our Apollo Mission. Where would you be without that rocket fuel? Stuck on the launch pad!!!

Afraid someone will laugh at you? So what?! When Jesus returns, ALL of us will be raising our hands to Him and singing His praises, and exalting Him; and NO one will be laughing, except the laughter of pure joy!

Do it now; drink deeply of His joy now! John15:11!


"These things I tell you, that My joy may be in you, and your joy may be FULL!"

Yes we will have suffering on Earth (because evil hates righteous things) --- Philip1:29. We will be persecuted, and some of us may die for His love; but the darkness has an end, so too the sorrow and the suffering; for Jesus will return, and there will be NO sadness, no departing of loved ones, and no suffering!

He really is a God of happiness; never doubt that. And that absolute truth is what will win the world to Him --- "Greater love has NO one than to lay down his life for his friends; and YOU are MY friends, if you do what I command." (Jn15:14)

:-)