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mikebr
Jul 23rd 2013, 01:18 AM
Does forgiveness require an acknowledgement of an offense? In other words do I have to say I'm sorry before I can be forgiven?

Slug1
Jul 23rd 2013, 01:32 AM
Does forgiveness require an acknowledgement of an offense? In other words do I have to say I'm sorry before I can be forgiven?What you are required to do is this if "you" offend another:

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

So, to answer your question... the answer is YES, say you're sorry to them and God can accept your offerings at your church. Now, whether or not the offended person reconciles or forgives you... you did what God asks of you.

mikebr
Jul 23rd 2013, 01:42 AM
What you are required to do is this if "you" offend another:

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

So, to answer your question... the answer is YES, say you're sorry to them and God can accept your offerings at your church. Now, whether or not the offended person reconciles or forgives you... you did what God asks of you.

So if I offended you, you couldn't forgive me until I admitted an offense?

LandShark
Jul 23rd 2013, 01:44 AM
Does forgiveness require an acknowledgement of an offense? In other words do I have to say I'm sorry before I can be forgiven?

I think to God yes....

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

LandShark
Jul 23rd 2013, 01:45 AM
So if I offended you, you couldn't forgive me until I admitted an offense?

If to man... it depends. If I knew what you did and you knew what you did and you apologized, I would forgive. But some folks are more sensitive and perhaps there are times we have to eat some humble pie in order to not cause strife within the body.

divaD
Jul 23rd 2013, 01:54 AM
So if I offended you, you couldn't forgive me until I admitted an offense?

From that perspective I would consider what Matthew 6:14-15 has to say on the matter.

Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

The way it looks to me, we are expected to forgive others, regardless, if we expect the Father to forgive us. If you offend someone, but do not seek forgiveness, and that the person refuses to forgive you until you do, it seems like that person is just as guilty as you are, but in another sort of way.

Slug1
Jul 23rd 2013, 01:56 AM
So if I offended you, you couldn't forgive me until I admitted an offense?No... I can forgive you anytime but you see, God has a plan to assist those who are unforgiving. If I am unforgiving and WILL not forgive you until you have approached me FOR forgiveness, God has established a means for this to happen to help us all out.

Forgiveness is THAT important... so important that God makes the offender GO TO the person they offended and reconcile with them. Saying "sorry" is a very simple beginning to get this forgiving ball rolling.

Pride prevents this ball from even beginning to roll as the offenDER refuses to put their gift down at the altar due to pride and also pridefully continues to offer it to God despite what God has said. Only pride would make a Christian rebel against these scriptures WHEN they KNOW they hurt someone and they ignore those who they hurt.

ChangedByHim
Jul 23rd 2013, 02:00 AM
I think to God yes....

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Well.... Not the initial one.... If so, I'd still be confessing after 30 years :D

Slug1
Jul 23rd 2013, 02:03 AM
From that perspective I would consider what Matthew 6:14-15 has to say on the matter.

Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

The way it looks to me, we are expected to forgive others, regardless, if we expect the Father to forgive us. If you offend someone, but do not seek forgiveness, and that the person refuses to forgive you until you do, it seems like that person is just as guilty as you are, but in another sort of way.This was the next part I was about to raise too.

Concerning the "Lord's Prayer" or ideal prayer... only the portion about forgiveness is raised by Jesus as a block of instruction. WHY?

Because forgiveness is that important. ALL... ALL those who I've ministered to over the years who have had a life full of misery as if the devil himself had a wide open door to do whatever he wanted to make them miserable and NOTHING could stop his freedom in inflicting all he wanted... it boiled back to unforgivness. When the person finally broke down and forgave, even forgave a person dead many years but had "offended" them long ago... soon as they forgave them, they began to experience less and less misery. They began to experience a closer relation with God. They began to heal from whatever was afflicting them. I can go on, and on.

Why?

mikebr
Jul 23rd 2013, 02:13 AM
No... I can forgive you anytime but you see, God has a plan to assist those who are unforgiving. If I am unforgiving and WILL not forgive you until you have approached me FOR forgiveness, God has established a means for this to happen to help us all out.

Forgiveness is THAT important... so important that God makes the offender GO TO the person they offended and reconcile with them. Saying "sorry" is a very simple beginning to get this forgiving ball rolling.

Pride prevents this ball from even beginning to roll as the offenDER refuses to put their gift down at the altar due to pride and also pridefully continues to offer it to God despite what God has said. Only pride would make a Christian rebel against these scriptures WHEN they KNOW they hurt someone and they ignore those who they hurt.

What if the offender has died?

Slug1
Jul 23rd 2013, 02:17 AM
What if the offender has died?I replied to Dave about this in #9.

mikebr
Jul 23rd 2013, 02:25 AM
I replied to Dave about this in #9.

So it sounds like you are saying that a person can be forgiven without acknowledging that they have done something wrong. But in your first post........................?

Slug1
Jul 23rd 2013, 02:27 AM
So it sounds like you are saying that a person can be forgiven without acknowledging that they have done something wrong. But in your first post........................?They can... but God ENSURES this process is helped by informing the offenDER, they go and seek for reconciliation. A Christian who KNOWS they hurt another and they ignore this... only their pride is stopping them from doing what God wants them to do.

Pride also makes them weasel around the scriptures and they justify to themselves that they DON'T have to go seek reconciliation with those who they hurt.

Aviyah
Jul 23rd 2013, 02:40 AM
No, because it would be impossible to forgive someone unless you had contact with them and this is not always the case.

Scooby_Snacks
Jul 23rd 2013, 02:52 AM
I look at it this way. I have to forgive others, but to have relationship with them again if they sinned against me there needs to be something on their part that happens to reconcile.

Does God forgive those I forgive...without them asking Him for forgiveness?

divaD
Jul 23rd 2013, 03:32 PM
Does God forgive those I forgive...without them asking Him for forgiveness?



Since no one has ever answered this yet, I will take a shot at it. I don't see how. There's just too many things to factor in. Such as, maybe the person doesn't feel they need to be forgiven of anything, that they were justified in doing or saying whatever they did to you. And what if they have trespasses against others whom they have not forgiven? Why should God then forgive them just because you did?

ProDeo
Jul 23rd 2013, 04:02 PM
I look at it this way. I have to forgive others, but to have relationship with them again if they sinned against me there needs to be something on their part that happens to reconcile.

Does God forgive those I forgive...without them asking Him for forgiveness?
I think you are close to the point the OP is trying to make, that is, if I understood it well.

We are told to forgive 7x70 which means infinite. For that (in principle) we get nothing in return. Does God holds on us a higher standard than He holds upon Himself?

Isn't that a dilemma?

divaD
Jul 23rd 2013, 04:30 PM
We are told to forgive 7x70 which means infinite.

I look at that a bit differently myself. The only other place in Scripture this exact same number seems to be used is in Daniel 9:24. What that then tells me is that we are to forgive one another until the 70 weeks are concluded, which logically has to mean the 70 weeks conclude with the 2nd advent of Christ. But I don't want to get into that debate here, in case you disagree, which of course is fine, since everyone has a right to disagree with something.

keck553
Jul 23rd 2013, 06:21 PM
I've forgiven people who probably had no knowledge they offended me, and I am quite sure the opposite is true.

Scooby_Snacks
Jul 23rd 2013, 09:15 PM
Since no one has ever answered this yet, I will take a shot at it. I don't see how. There's just too many things to factor in. Such as, maybe the person doesn't feel they need to be forgiven of anything, that they were justified in doing or saying whatever they did to you. And what if they have trespasses against others whom they have not forgiven? Why should God then forgive them just because you did?

That seems the logical explanation..I want to agree with it, but what do I do with this?

I have a struggle with why Jesus said forgive them Father for they know not what they do, but I do know He had the authority on earth to forgive sins--I mean, I guess that doesn't mean I should think I could follow Him concerning this?

That's why I asked and am now derailing...sorry nimblewillsgrace

Jade99
Jul 23rd 2013, 09:47 PM
I've forgiven people who probably had no knowledge they offended me, and I am quite sure the opposite is true.

me too. I don't wait for the offender to apologize, because maybe they don't know that they have offended me.

mikebr
Jul 23rd 2013, 11:41 PM
I've forgiven people who probably had no knowledge they offended me, and I am quite sure the opposite is true.

This is the point I'm trying to make. Now can God forgive me without me asking forgiveness?

Jake
Jul 24th 2013, 12:06 AM
This is the point I'm trying to make. Now can God forgive me without me asking forgiveness?

A person needs to repent and turn away from what they need to be forgiven for, otherwise, no if you don't repent and turn away, it means you're still doing that which you shouldn't be doing.

Fenris
Jul 24th 2013, 12:45 AM
Does forgiveness require an acknowledgement of an offense?
If you don't think you did anything wrong, why ask for forgiveness?

chad
Jul 24th 2013, 01:09 AM
In terms of salvation. We need to ask for forgiveness and repent of our sins - for that is the gospel message.

In terms of God forgiving us of sin after salvation, IMO yes, God can by his Grace of unintentional sin and other sins - for we have Jesus who intercedes for us on our behalf - our high priest in heaven. But we can also ask for forgiveness if we know we commit sin after repentance.

In terms of other people. Yes, others can forgive others without the other person asking for it.

And Yes, people can choose to forgive or nor to when others ask them. The bible says we should, but there may be a need for healing in a persons life, before that forgiveness can be genuine - depending on the circumstance.



Does forgiveness require an acknowledgement of an offense? In other words do I have to say I'm sorry before I can be forgiven?

Balabusha
Jul 24th 2013, 01:22 AM
This is the point I'm trying to make. Now can God forgive me without me asking forgiveness?

You are forgiven past, present and future by grace thru faith in Messiah. Not recognizing this is what spawned Catholic dogma of last rites and if someone killed themselves then they were separated from God because obviuosly you can't confess that last sin.
The only thing that separates a person from God is constant rejection of our Redeemer. Even then God is a God of love and gives them what they want in this life, also in eternity-nothing to do with Him.

keck553
Jul 24th 2013, 01:27 AM
This is the point I'm trying to make. Now can God forgive me without me asking forgiveness?

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy on."

"Repent" is a lot more complicted than asking for forgiveness. I don't think just asking for forgiveness is gonna get anyone anywhere.Natasha Henstridge

keck553
Jul 24th 2013, 01:28 AM
If you don't think you did anything wrong, why ask for forgiveness?

That's what Sukkot is all about, isn't it?

Fenris
Jul 25th 2013, 11:40 PM
Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession.... - Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Balabusha
Jul 26th 2013, 12:00 AM
Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession.... - Dietrich Bonhoeffer

-This was a great man who stood up for us in Germany, and lost his life at the gallows standing up to a madman. He was a great example, and a sincere Christian.