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View Full Version : Isaiah 34:11 - What is a Cormortant and the Bittern?



HappyEndings
Aug 15th 2013, 01:44 AM
KJV = But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.

ASB (American Standard Bible) = But the pelican and the porcupine shall possess it; and the owl and the raven shall dwell therein: and he will stretch over it the line of confusion, and the plummet of emptiness.

The Complete Jewish Bible = Horned owl and hawk will possess it, screech owl and raven will live there; he will stretch over it the measuring line of confusion and the plumbline of the empty void.

The Orthodox Jewish Bible = But the desert owl and the screech owl shall possess it; even the yanshuf (great owl) and the orev (raven) shall dwell in it; and He shall stretch out upon it the measuring line of tohu, and the plumbline of vohu [See Genesis 1:2 (http://bibleforums.org/passage/?search=Gen.1.2&version=OJB)].

NCV = Birds and small animals will own that land, and owls and ravens will live there. God will make it an empty wasteland; it will have nothing left in it.

Thanks again for the help!!!!;)

Brother Paul
Aug 15th 2013, 03:10 AM
Actually cormorant is archaic English for a bird of prey. In England that would most probably be a Hawk or an owl

HappyEndings
Aug 15th 2013, 06:10 AM
Actually cormorant is archaic English for a bird of prey. In England that would most probably be a Hawk or an owl


Then what is the Bittern?

Walls
Aug 15th 2013, 08:03 AM
They are two coastal birds that usually do not go in great flock - indicating that the place they live will be lonely and forlorn. Edom in Isaiah 34 is that piece of land south of the Dead Sea reaching to the Gulf of Aqaba (modern day Jordan). They indicate, together with the context of Isaiah 34, the desolation of Edom. The lesson is great, because God hates very few things, but Esau, the one whose posterity occupied this land, was hated by God (Mal.1:3; Rom.9:13).

Esau was the firstborn of Isaac and so possessed the birthright. This meant a double portion of the Good Land promised to Abraham and Isaac, and most probably the lineage of Jesus, the coming "Seed" in whom all the nations would be blesses. For the sake of the flesh, Esau sold his birthright. As God's plan is first for man to subdue and rule the earth (Gen.1:26-28), and after the fall, secondly to redeem men back to this high calling by the Messiah, King of kings, Esau despised God's whole plan. During the Millennial reign of our Lord Jesus Christ, the earth will, under the rule of the Rod of Iron, be immensely fruitful, with the deserts blossoming and the harvests not complete by the time planting comes around again. But one part of the earth, as we know it, will remain a desolate wilderness - the land of Esau and his posterity. This will be a living memory of what it means to despise one's birthright.

The "Seed" of Abraham that was to bless the earth, its families and its nations, came through Jacob and Judah - the God-Man Jesus. According to Galatians 3:29 all of us are seed of Abraham via Christ, and are in line to inherit the earth (see also Rom.4:13). The time of this inheriting the earth is AFTER our Lord Jesus returns - that is, at the dawn of the next age, the Millennial Age. The meek will inherit the earth and the diligent and faithful servants of the Lord Jesus will inherit it (Ps.37:11; Matt.5:5, 25:21-23; Lk.12:44 etc.). Those Christians who lead a sinful, slothful, lukewarm and fleshly life now are counted as Esau (Heb.12:16), and will NEITHER enter the "Joy" of the Lord, NOR the Kingdom He will set up. They are to be despised in the next age like Esau. Their only inheritance will be a desolate wilderness of the soul (Matthew 10:39, 16:25; Mark 8:35; Luke 9:24, 17:33; John 12:25).

David Taylor
Aug 15th 2013, 01:47 PM
The "Seed" of Abraham that was to bless the earth, its families and its nations, came through Jacob and Judah - the God-Man Jesus. According to Galatians 3:29 all of us are seed of Abraham via Christ, and are in line to inherit the earth (see also Rom.4:13). The time of this inheriting the earth is AFTER our Lord Jesus returns - that is, at the dawn of the next age, the Millennial Age. The meek will inherit the earth and the diligent and faithful servants of the Lord Jesus will inherit it (Ps.37:11; Matt.5:5, 25:21-23; Lk.12:44 etc.). Those Christians who lead a sinful, slothful, lukewarm and fleshly life now are counted as Esau (Heb.12:16), and will NEITHER enter the "Joy" of the Lord, NOR the Kingdom He will set up. They are to be despised in the next age like Esau. Their only inheritance will be a desolate wilderness of the soul (Matthew 10:39, 16:25; Mark 8:35; Luke 9:24, 17:33; John 12:25).

The only difference in the above premill interpretation of the Earth after Jesus' return; and the non-premill interpretation of Jesus' return; is that the above premill interpretation also has an earth filled with sin and death, a return to OT animal sacrifices for sin offerings return, and physical circumcision is required again, and a rebellion of the earthly inhabitants against Christ that numbers the sands of the sea; showing a pretty uneffecting rule and reign of Christ over billions of its inhabitants.

The non-premill kingdom reign of Christ on Earth after Jesus' return however, is also the dawn of the next age to come, when the meek will inherit the earth and the diligent and faithful servants of the Lord Jesus will inherit it (Ps.37:11; Matt.5:5, 25:21-23; Lk.12:44 etc.). The difference being, in this earthly kingdom reign, Christ will remove all sin and death, and will present an earthly kingdom wherein dwelleth righteousness; where all men will live in peace and harmony one with another, and the Kingdom of Christ will have no sin and no rebellion within it. All will love the Lord and serve Him. All those who reject the Lord will be severed from among the just and cast into the fiery furnace; and can nowise enter in.


II Thessalonians 1:4 "So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him"

Walls
Aug 15th 2013, 04:30 PM
The only difference in the above premill interpretation of the Earth after Jesus' return; and the non-premill interpretation of Jesus' return; is that the above premill interpretation also has an earth filled with sin and death, a return to OT animal sacrifices for sin offerings return, and physical circumcision is required again, and a rebellion of the earthly inhabitants against Christ that numbers the sands of the sea; showing a pretty uneffecting rule and reign of Christ over billions of its inhabitants.

The non-premill kingdom reign of Christ on Earth after Jesus' return however, is also the dawn of the next age to come, when the meek will inherit the earth and the diligent and faithful servants of the Lord Jesus will inherit it (Ps.37:11; Matt.5:5, 25:21-23; Lk.12:44 etc.). The difference being, in this earthly kingdom reign, Christ will remove all sin and death, and will present an earthly kingdom wherein dwelleth righteousness; where all men will live in peace and harmony one with another, and the Kingdom of Christ will have no sin and no rebellion within it. All will love the Lord and serve Him. All those who reject the Lord will be severed from among the just and cast into the fiery furnace; and can nowise enter in.


Your final sentence negates all that you have established. For men to be cast away;


not ALL will love and serve Him
they must have sinned


But nevertheless, having been put in a box with a title, may I say to the other readers; All of the above does come to pass, not in the millennial reign, but after it, on the New Earth. The Millennial reign is for 1'000 years on the earth as we know it now, and the rule of the Rod of Iron is for mischief. Myself and David Taylor have the same end, except we place it in a different age of the "ages (plural) to come" (Eph.2:7, 3:21).

David Taylor
Aug 15th 2013, 07:07 PM
Your final sentence negates all that you have established. For men to be cast away;


not ALL will love and serve Him
they must have sinned



No it doesn't because that casting away, as shown in the II THessalonians passage; occurs when Christ returns; at the onset of the perfect (non-Premill) earthly Kingdom of Christ.

That's the whole part about severing the wicked from among the just, and therein dwelling righteousness.





But nevertheless, having been put in a box with a title, may I say to the other readers; All of the above does come to pass, not in the millennial reign, but after it, on the New Earth. The Millennial reign is for 1'000 years on the earth as we know it now, and the rule of the Rod of Iron is for mischief. Myself and David Taylor have the same end, except we place it in a different age of the "ages (plural) to come" (Eph.2:7, 3:21).


True, one view, the 2nd coming of Christ is just another blip on the historical timeline of a sinful, cursed, rebellious earth and it's wicked inhabitants; whereas the other has the 2nd coming of Christ as being the climax and resplendent epiphanea of a sinful, cursed, rebellious earth and it's wicked inhabitants; with only perfect peace and righteousness continuing thereafter in Christ's Earthly Kingdom.

Walls
Aug 15th 2013, 07:33 PM
True, one view, the 2nd coming of Christ is just another blip on the historical timeline of a sinful, cursed, rebellious earth and it's wicked inhabitants; whereas the other has the 2nd coming of Christ as being the climax and resplendent epiphanea of a sinful, cursed, rebellious earth and it's wicked inhabitants; with only perfect peace and righteousness continuing thereafter in Christ's Earthly Kingdom.

And now I have to say, NO! At His return Philippians 2:10 says, "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;" That some are under the earth show that not all the dead are resurrected as they shall be for the White Throne. There is no verse that the nations and the "rest of the dead" shall love Him. Only that they are compelled by the Father to "bow and confess." In the corresponding prophecy from Isaiah 45 it is; "Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed." Where now is the love? I see some "incensed against Him."

But I think our positions are not reconcilable.