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oha
Oct 12th 2013, 07:03 AM
Hi All

is death and sin taught in the churches today? Do the people know man dies things die because of sin?

sin and death

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

sin = death

sin is breaking the commandments

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

because of sin people and all things die

oha
Oct 12th 2013, 07:09 AM
because of Adam all die

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Adam sinned

Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Genesis 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

oha
Oct 12th 2013, 07:10 AM
people have died because of sin, because of Adam transgression
people are still dying because of sin, even though Jesus has come and died for sin

why are people are still dying because of sin?

are the commandments still valid?

is satan still walking the earth?

Did Jesus die for a particular type of sin, all sins, etc?

people are still dying of disease, pestilence, famine, war, violence, etc

we read after Jesus death and resurrection the wages of sin is death, sin is still here after the cross.

oha
Oct 12th 2013, 07:22 AM
God warned Adam not to talk to satan and said the day that he do he would surely die.


Genesis 2
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

what if Adam and Eve had obeyed God, would they have died? would we have death and sin now?

oha
Oct 12th 2013, 07:33 AM
what I've learned and I'm pretty sure you all have to is that God warns us about him, God warns us about the consequences of obeying and disobeying him.

this amazed me when I was shown this by my teacher/church

the first death


Genesis 4:6-8
6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

look what is present in the conversation and act

sin and death

God warned Cain about sin
Cain slew Abel

the bible definition of sin is

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Cain broke the law
the law was around before Cain
sin was around before Cain
God warned Cain, Adam and Eve
Cain sinned and killed Abel

oha
Oct 12th 2013, 07:45 AM
now I've never killed anyone, I've sinned even after the similitude of Adam and Eve. I've disobeyed God many times. I've transgressed the law many times. I've lied, I've stolen, even though I've accepted Jesus and I'm baptized, I will still die.

why?

Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

yet even though I'm under God's grace I'm not immune to sickness and disease, even though I have access to the blood of Jesus
I will die

yes I will be raised at the first resurrection or Judgment day, yet I am man and man dies

chad
Oct 12th 2013, 08:55 AM
Hi Oha,

So many questions. Let me give you my opinion on just one of them.

Jesus was born a man and died on the cross to pay for our sins. Because he was sinless, he paid the price for our sins and was raised from the Dead. Death had no dominion over him, for he conquered death and sin. He is now raised as our high priest in heaven, where he lives forever.

Our final destination is not here on earth but in heaven. Paul describes our earthly bodies as tents, but we have a heavenly destination and although our earthly bodies die, we will be resurrected. We will receive a spiritual body that is eternal and where there is no death, there is no sin.


(Rom 6:3 KJV) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

(Rom 6:4 KJV) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

(Rom 6:5 KJV) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

(Rom 6:6 KJV) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

(Rom 6:7 KJV) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

(Rom 6:8 KJV) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

(Rom 6:9 KJV) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

(Rom 6:10 KJV) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

(Rom 6:11 KJV) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.





Yes I will be raised at the first resurrection or Judgment day, yet I am man and man dies

Curtis
Oct 12th 2013, 01:38 PM
now I've never killed anyone, I've sinned even after the similitude of Adam and Eve. I've disobeyed God many times. I've transgressed the law many times. I've lied, I've stolen, even though I've accepted Jesus and I'm baptized, I will still die.

why?

Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

yet even though I'm under God's grace I'm not immune to sickness and disease, even though I have access to the blood of Jesus
I will die

yes I will be raised at the first resurrection or Judgment day, yet I am man and man dies

Remember Jesus said, "he that believeth in me shall never die". Your body will die some day because it is apart of this world, but your spirit, and soul will never die, in fact you are sitting in Heavenly places right now in Christ. Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God. It is so corrupt it can not be fixed, it has to be changed. That's OK because your body can not live without your spirit, but your spirit can live without your body. You are the spiritual man inside not the physical man. Your body only gives you the ability to operate in this time based physical world.

ewq1938
Oct 13th 2013, 03:01 AM
sin = death


Not always:

1Jn_5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn_5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.




because of sin people and all things die

No, trees die but they don't sin, same with animals and very small infants etc. Death is a natural part of life:



1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Adam was created with death of his body to eventually be a natural part of God's plan for him and all humans.



1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:


Adam's human body was NOT the "body that shall be" which means the body he would have to inherit to receive eternal life ie: the spiritual body. This proves even Adam's original flesh body was designed and meant to die.



1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

One is this temporary human body that MUST die in order for our soul to enter the next "celestial" body.


1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Our first body is "corruption" because it is weak and flawed and will grow weaker as it ages then it will die. Our bodies have a time limit set by God as part of his natural plan for us in this world and life.


1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


Again, the natural body is designed by God to age and die. It is weak and frail and can only last a certain amount of time. Adam and Eve's bodies were NO EXCEPTION to this basic fact about the human body.



1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


Neither Adam not Eve had physical immortality. They were designed by God to live and die, regardless of sin or no sin. Sin only affected the mortality or immortality of the soul. The death Adam's sin brought to us all is spiritual death not physical death of the human body.

Jade99
Oct 14th 2013, 02:08 AM
God warned Adam not to talk to satan and said the day that he do he would surely die.


Genesis 2
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

what if Adam and Eve had obeyed God, would they have died? would we have death and sin now?

Incorrect, sweet pea. God never warned Adam not to talk to Satan. He just said not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and if they did then they will surely die.

Yes, if Adam and Eve had obeyed God, then they would not have died, because sin would not have entered into the world if they had not ate from the tree.

Jade99
Oct 14th 2013, 02:12 AM
now I've never killed anyone, I've sinned even after the similitude of Adam and Eve. I've disobeyed God many times. I've transgressed the law many times. I've lied, I've stolen, even though I've accepted Jesus and I'm baptized, I will still die.

why?

Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

yet even though I'm under God's grace I'm not immune to sickness and disease, even though I have access to the blood of Jesus
I will die

yes I will be raised at the first resurrection or Judgment day, yet I am man and man dies


You're physical body will die, but since you are born again you will receive a glorified body according to Philippians 3:21. Remember what 1 Cor 15 says that this corruption must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortal. (paraphrasing)

But yep you are correct, even though you are saved by God's grace, you are not immune to sickness and disease. If that were true, then I would not be currently fighting a cold. lol

ewq1938
Oct 14th 2013, 02:18 AM
Yes, if Adam and Eve had obeyed God, then they would not have died, because sin would not have entered into the world if they had not ate from the tree.

Not true. They were mortal and all mortals die. The death sentence given to them was the second death, the same one most people will die due to their sins.

Jade99
Oct 14th 2013, 02:26 AM
people have died because of sin, because of Adam transgression
people are still dying because of sin, even though Jesus has come and died for sin

why are people are still dying because of sin?

are the commandments still valid?

is satan still walking the earth?

Did Jesus die for a particular type of sin, all sins, etc?

people are still dying of disease, pestilence, famine, war, violence, etc

we read after Jesus death and resurrection the wages of sin is death, sin is still here after the cross.

1) People are still dying because of sin, because of well, sin. That's the punishment that was given that our mortal body will go back to the ground - meaning you will die a physical death. So, if you belong to Christ, you'll die in him (absent from the body, present with the Lord) and if you have not accepted Jesus, then you pretty much stay spiritual dead because you will not be able to enter into the kingdom of God and then you will be judged at the white throne judgement according to Revelation 20.

2) Yes, the commandments are still valid.

3) I would say that he is, especially since he is considered by Jesus himself to be the god of this world. If he aint walking physically, then he's definitely here spiritually.

4) Jesus died for all sins. No sin is different from the other, it's all the same in God's eyes.

5) Yep, see answer 1

6) We all were born sinners, meaning we have a sinful nature. We weren't born connected to God. We needed to realize that we needed a Savior, because we are sinners and we needed to accept that. We also needed to believe that Jesus paid the ransom for all mankind when he gave his life up for us. He died for the sins of all mankind, past, present, and future sins. He became sin for us who knew no sin. He made the ultimate sacrifice. So, his death, burial, and resurrection conquered death, hell, and the grave and most of all sin and made it possible for mankind to be reconciled to God. His grace and mercy saved us and made it possible to go to heaven to be with him. He just ask us to believe in what he did for us, believe that he's Lord; you got to make it personal and sincerely believe. So, even though sin is still here in full affect, know that it's already been conquered and when the day comes that you leave this earth, you will be with Christ in heaven.

Jade99
Oct 14th 2013, 02:31 AM
Not true. They were mortal and all mortals die. The death sentence given to them was the second death, the same one most people will die due to their sins.

The second death hasn't even occurred yet. Read Revelation 20. and the second death is for unbelievers only. Their death was a combination of both spiritual and physical. Spiritual, because their eyes were opened to the point, were they now had a conscious and had to make the choice of whether or not between good and evil. Physical death, because of the punishment in Genesis 3.


Hi All

is death and sin taught in the churches today? Do the people know man dies things die because of sin?

sin and death

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

sin = death

sin is breaking the commandments

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

because of sin people and all things die

BTW....welcome to the forums :)

ewq1938
Oct 14th 2013, 03:33 AM
The second death hasn't even occurred yet. Read Revelation 20.


I know. It is the death God promised Adam.




and the second death is for unbelievers only.

It's for anyone God decides deserves it.





Their death was a combination of both spiritual and physical.

Not physical.





Physical death, because of the punishment in Genesis 3.

Death is not given as one of their punishments. Hard labor was a punishment for Adam until he died.




BTW....welcome to the forums :)

Thanks, looks like a neat place.

oha
Oct 14th 2013, 01:22 PM
Hi Oha,

So many questions. Let me give you my opinion on just one of them.

Jesus was born a man and died on the cross to pay for our sins. Because he was sinless, he paid the price for our sins and was raised from the Dead. Death had no dominion over him, for he conquered death and sin. He is now raised as our high priest in heaven, where he lives forever.

Our final destination is not here on earth but in heaven. Paul describes our earthly bodies as tents, but we have a heavenly destination and although our earthly bodies die, we will be resurrected. We will receive a spiritual body that is eternal and where there is no death, there is no sin.


(Rom 6:3 KJV) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

(Rom 6:4 KJV) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

(Rom 6:5 KJV) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

(Rom 6:6 KJV) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

(Rom 6:7 KJV) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

(Rom 6:8 KJV) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

(Rom 6:9 KJV) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

(Rom 6:10 KJV) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

(Rom 6:11 KJV) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hi Chad

I understand about Jesus

but as a man(male and female), Sin is the reason we(man) die

as far as man going to heaven my understanding differs from traditional teaching

here are a few verses that Jesus and Paul spoke on concerning heaven


2 Corinthians 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Paul said Jesus went to the third heaven, this lets me know that there is 3 heavens


1 Timothy 6:15-17

King James Version (KJV)


15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Paul go on to say that Jesus dwells in the light which no man can approach, we know this is that third heaven where Jesus went to sent on the right hand of the Father

and I will conclude with what the Lord Jesus said


John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus said no man has ascended up to heaven, since Jesus cant lie this saying has to be true.

what are your thoughts?

God Bless

oha
Oct 14th 2013, 01:35 PM
Hi Oha,

So many questions. Let me give you my opinion on just one of them.

Jesus was born a man and died on the cross to pay for our sins. Because he was sinless, he paid the price for our sins and was raised from the Dead. Death had no dominion over him, for he conquered death and sin. He is now raised as our high priest in heaven, where he lives forever.

Our final destination is not here on earth but in heaven. Paul describes our earthly bodies as tents, but we have a heavenly destination and although our earthly bodies die, we will be resurrected. We will receive a spiritual body that is eternal and where there is no death, there is no sin.


(Rom 6:3 KJV) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

(Rom 6:4 KJV) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

(Rom 6:5 KJV) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

(Rom 6:6 KJV) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

(Rom 6:7 KJV) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

(Rom 6:8 KJV) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

(Rom 6:9 KJV) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

(Rom 6:10 KJV) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

(Rom 6:11 KJV) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


as far as our man's destination being in heaven again I would ask you to look at these verses and give me input


Daniel 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him

Daniels said the saints will rule the kingdom under the whole earth


Zechariah 14:8-10

King James Version (KJV)


8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

when will Jesus be king over all the earth?

Psalm 115:16
The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

earth is given to man, heaven belongs to God

God's desire is to live on earth in Jerusalem(zion)



Psalm 132:13-15

King James Version (KJV)


13 For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

oha
Oct 14th 2013, 01:42 PM
Remember Jesus said, "he that believeth in me shall never die". Your body will die some day because it is apart of this world, but your spirit, and soul will never die, in fact you are sitting in Heavenly places right now in Christ. Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God. It is so corrupt it can not be fixed, it has to be changed. That's OK because your body can not live without your spirit, but your spirit can live without your body. You are the spiritual man inside not the physical man. Your body only gives you the ability to operate in this time based physical world.

Hi Curtis

what about this?

there is 2 deaths in the bible

a physical death

a spiritual death

either way both deaths are do to sin.

you mention the believer but it is written


Ezekiel 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

the believer can sin and turn from believing

oha
Oct 14th 2013, 01:51 PM
1) People are still dying because of sin, because of well, sin. That's the punishment that was given that our mortal body will go back to the ground - meaning you will die a physical death. So, if you belong to Christ, you'll die in him (absent from the body, present with the Lord) and if you have not accepted Jesus, then you pretty much stay spiritual dead because you will not be able to enter into the kingdom of God and then you will be judged at the white throne judgement according to Revelation 20.

2) Yes, the commandments are still valid.

3) I would say that he is, especially since he is considered by Jesus himself to be the god of this world. If he aint walking physically, then he's definitely here spiritually.

4) Jesus died for all sins. No sin is different from the other, it's all the same in God's eyes.

5) Yep, see answer 1

6) We all were born sinners, meaning we have a sinful nature. We weren't born connected to God. We needed to realize that we needed a Savior, because we are sinners and we needed to accept that. We also needed to believe that Jesus paid the ransom for all mankind when he gave his life up for us. He died for the sins of all mankind, past, present, and future sins. He became sin for us who knew no sin. He made the ultimate sacrifice. So, his death, burial, and resurrection conquered death, hell, and the grave and most of all sin and made it possible for mankind to be reconciled to God. His grace and mercy saved us and made it possible to go to heaven to be with him. He just ask us to believe in what he did for us, believe that he's Lord; you got to make it personal and sincerely believe. So, even though sin is still here in full affect, know that it's already been conquered and when the day comes that you leave this earth, you will be with Christ in heaven.


Hi Sis

I agree with 90% of your post accept this below and the heaven part at the end of your post

I don't understand the sin has been conquered saying.

Jesus conquered his sins and our past sins

what do you think of this verse from Paul

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


after baptism when our past sins are washed away, we are told not to sin on purpose

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

oha
Oct 14th 2013, 01:54 PM
You're physical body will die, but since you are born again you will receive a glorified body according to Philippians 3:21. Remember what 1 Cor 15 says that this corruption must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortal. (paraphrasing)

But yep you are correct, even though you are saved by God's grace, you are not immune to sickness and disease. If that were true, then I would not be currently fighting a cold. lol

when do we put on incorruption and immorality?

at death or at the first resurrection or on the white throne judgment day

thanks for the welcome

oha
Oct 14th 2013, 01:58 PM
Not true. They were mortal and all mortals die. The death sentence given to them was the second death, the same one most people will die due to their sins.

sin will cause all people to di once and some the second death

what would have happened if Adam and Eve had NOT sinned?


Genesis 2:16-18
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

my understanding is that Adam and Eve would not have died, they were created not to die, we were created not to die, but because they and we sin we die.

ristenk
Oct 14th 2013, 02:36 PM
Hi All

is death and sin taught in the churches today?


I don't know about where you are from, but around me... it is not. It is not taught correctly in the catholic nor protestant churches... the people I know (of various denomination backgrounds) don't understand God's standard because they were never taught it growing up... they just have heard "God is love"... without the message of the law and that God's love is His mercy toward us even though we transgressed the law thru Christ.

luigi
Oct 14th 2013, 02:39 PM
Genesis 2:17 "... for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

You know what is also interesting here oha, is that Adam died the day he ate of the tree of knowledge.
But as we see in Genesis his body continued to live for another 900+ years, his death the day he ate from the tree of knowledge was then a spiritual death.

Old man
Oct 14th 2013, 03:20 PM
Genesis 2:17 "... for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

You know what is also interesting here oha, is that Adam died the day he ate of the tree of knowledge.
But as we see in Genesis his body continued to live for another 900+ years, his death the day he ate from the tree of knowledge was then a spiritual death.

Hi luigi;

Honest question for your opinion. Do you think that if God hadn't restricted Adam and Eve from eating of the tree of Life (and so live forever Gen 3:22-23) he would have lived forever referring to spiritual or physical life? :hmm:

Old man
Oct 14th 2013, 03:29 PM
I don't know about where you are from, but around me... it is not. It is not taught correctly in the catholic nor protestant churches... the people I know (of various denomination backgrounds) don't understand God's standard because they were never taught it growing up... they just have heard "God is love"... without the message of the law and that God's love is His mercy toward us even though we transgressed the law thru Christ.

It’s the same around here. It seems that believers are more than willing to see the first part of what God declares about Himself in Ex 34:6-7


Ex. 34:6-7 “Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; (7) who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; …”

And all but ignores or dismisses the rest of it.


(7) …. yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

luigi
Oct 14th 2013, 03:30 PM
Hi luigi;

Honest question for your opinion. Do you think that if God hadn't restricted Adam and Eve from eating of the tree of Life (and so live forever Gen 3:22-23) he would have lived forever referring to spiritual or physical life? :hmm:
Had Adam and Eve not sinned, they would have continued to live forever spiritually. But since flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven, I think their bodies would still had to have to been put off, if they were to inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Old man
Oct 14th 2013, 03:56 PM
Had Adam and Eve not sinned, they would have continued to live forever spiritually.

So your saying that if they had continued to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life they would have lived forever spiritually but not physically?



But since flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven, I think their bodies would still had to have to been put off, if they were to inherit the kingdom of heaven.

This brings up an interesting question (for me at least). According to you; if A & E had not sinned they would have lived forever spiritually and would have inherited the kingdom of God; would you say that their stay in the "paradise of God" Eden would still be a physically temporary thing because they would still physically die and their spirit would go on into the kingdom of heaven (someplace other than the garden of Eden)?

luigi
Oct 14th 2013, 08:02 PM
So your saying that if they had continued to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life they would have lived forever spiritually but not physically? Yes, they would have continued to live forever. Whether they would have continued to live forever physically, I do not know. But if they did continue in the flesh, they could not have inherited the kingdom of heaven.




This brings up an interesting question (for me at least). According to you; if A & E had not sinned they would have lived forever spiritually and would have inherited the kingdom of God; would you say that their stay in the "paradise of God" Eden would still be a physically temporary thing because they would still physically die and their spirit would go on into the kingdom of heaven (someplace other than the garden of Eden)?I said Adam and Eve would not have died spiritually if they had not consumed from the tree of knowledge. As far as I recall they never ate from the tree of life. Whether they would have inherited the kingdom of heaven, I do not know, but I suspect so, and If so, they would then have to leave their bodies behind. Their physical stay in Eden would then have been temporary as well.

ewq1938
Oct 14th 2013, 10:10 PM
Had Adam and Eve not sinned, they would have continued to live forever spiritually. But since flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven, I think their bodies would still had to have to been put off, if they were to inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Proving that death is a natural and required part of this life as 1Co 15:35-50 teaches.

Jade99
Oct 15th 2013, 01:04 AM
Hi Sis

I agree with 90% of your post accept this below and the heaven part at the end of your post

I don't understand the sin has been conquered saying.

Jesus conquered his sins and our past sins

what do you think of this verse from Paul

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


after baptism when our past sins are washed away, we are told not to sin on purpose

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Jesus didn't conquered his sins, because he was without sin. His death, burial, and resurrection conquered all sin (remember no sin is different from the other, because it's all the same in God's eyes)

As far as Paul and the verse,

To forbear means to forgive. When a believer becomes born again, they become a new creature in Christ. So, when we confess our sins, it's the blood of Christ that cleanses us.

Think about this for an example: I'm not sure if you're a girl or a boy, so please forgive me in advance if you don't understand this. Ok, so when I buy a bra, even thought it may appear to be clean, it's not clean; it's dirty because everyone and their mama has tried that same bra on, so it's unclean. So, I purchase the bra and then I go home and wash it and like most things, after it's been washed, it's clean. It's wearable. The dirt is gone, along with the smells and what not. lol. But, after I wear it I need to continue to clean it because it gets filthy after a while from sweat, dirt, and smells, etc. So, I start the cleaning process over again, only this time, It is mine. I have a relationship with my bra, because I wear it.

So, our lives before we were saved is like that of the bra. When Jesus died on the cross for our sins, he paid the ransom - Hence the song "I am redeemed, brought with a price." He paid the price with his life for our salvation. When a believer says "I'm sorry for sinning against you and I admit that I am a sinner, but I believe that you died for the sins of all mankind and that you was buried and now you are alive, as our risen savior and I just want you to come into my life and save me." In that moment, the believer becomes a new creature, because the blood of Jesus has washed us white as snow (just like when I washed the bra). My past as a sinner has been forgiven and I'm not apart of the family of God. I now have a relationship with God, as his daughter. (Just like my bra has a relationship with me, as the holder of my ladies, lol)

So, even though I have been saved, it doesn't mean that I won't sin again. I still have a sinful nature, because that doesn't go anywhere until I die physically or raptured up (that's a different topic) but I also have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide me into all truths. So, when I sin against God now, I don't lose my relationship with him, but when you sin against God as his child, then you will be chastised like our parents chastised us as kids. The Holy Spirit will convict your heart to let you know that what you did was not cool and you need to make things right. 1 John 1:9 says "if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." So basically, the blood of Jesus is cleaning us again, because it's a continual process. (Just like when my bra gets dirty again, I have to continual clean it)

Now, what Hebrews 10:26 is saying if the unbeliever sins after they have been told about why they need to be saved, and they reject it; then they have sinned because they rejected Christ and chose to continue to doing their own thing, without the need of a savior. There a lot of people walking around that has heard the gospel but has chosen to live this life and their eternal life without having a relationship with Christ. So, that's why when you hear that verse "Today is the day of salvation, now is the acceptable hour" then you need to choose, because tomorrow or the next min is not promised to anyone.

It's through faith that we believe in what Christ has done for us. So, it's also through faith that you believe that your sins are forgiven, after you confess.

I hope this make sense but if you still have questions, never hesistate to PM one of us and more importantly, never hesistiate to ask the Holy Spirit for understand of the word. He is glad and very happy to do that. Remember what Romans 10:17 says "Faith cometh by hearing; hearing by the word of God."

:hug:

ISRAEL
Oct 15th 2013, 01:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XlhB6dKxSWE

Jade99
Oct 15th 2013, 01:10 AM
when do we put on incorruption and immorality?

at death or at the first resurrection or on the white throne judgment day

thanks for the welcome


In question to this, I'm going to just post gotquestions.org response (mods if this is not acceptable or against the rules, please forgive me - I didn't not know)

I'm only post this for there, because I really need to get that nyquil in me for this cold and go to bed, so I can not have that groggy feeling during tomorrow (got a huge spreadsheet coming in) and my brain is about to zonk out. lol..

But I do say this. The white throne judgement is for unbelievers only (Revelation 20). Believers will stand before God at the Judgement seat of Christ. (2 Cor 5:10)

Question: "Will we have physical bodies in Heaven?"

Answer: Although the Bible tells us little about what it will be like in heaven, it seems that we will most likely have a physical body, although not in the same sense of “physical” that we have now. First Corinthians 15:52 says that "the dead will be raised incorruptible" and that those who are alive at the time of Christ's return for His saints "shall be changed." Jesus Christ is "the first fruits" of those who have died (1 Corinthians 15:20, 23). This means that He set the example and leads the way. First Corinthians 15:42 says that our "body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption." In a precursor to the believers’ resurrection, some were raised at the time of Christ's resurrection in Matthew 27:52 where it says that their "bodies...were raised." Thomas, in John 20:27, physically touched the body of Christ following His resurrection, so He obviously had a body that was solid.

We can expect that all believers’ resurrection will be like that of Christ's. What a wonderful truth! The Bible is not specific, but it seems that we will be able to eat. John, in Revelation 22:2, writes of his vision of the eternal state where he saw that "in the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month." This seems to be a reversal of the Genesis 3 punishment where Adam and Eve, and hence all of mankind, were banned from eating from this tree. As for hunger, it appears that there won't be any. Isaiah 49:10 says that there will be no hunger or thirst in the millennial kingdom. This is speaking of mortal men during that period, not of translated saints, but by extension it can be said that if mortals on earth during Christ's Kingdom do not hunger, then surely there will be no hunger in heaven (see also Revelation 7:14-16).

Finally, Job wrote that he knew for sure that even after he dies and his skin is long gone, that "in my FLESH I shall SEE God" (Job 19:25 - all caps added for emphasis). So that means our bodies will consist of some kind of glorified flesh. Whatever form we have, we know that it will be perfect, sinless and flawless.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/physical-bodies-heaven.html#ixzz2hkTV50xP



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XlhB6dKxSWE

Welcome to the forums, Israel :)

ISRAEL
Oct 15th 2013, 01:11 AM
Heaven bound or earth bound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XlhB6dKxSWE

ISRAEL
Oct 15th 2013, 01:13 AM
Do animals have a spirit ?
Who are the two witnesses in revelation 11:confused

ewq1938
Oct 15th 2013, 02:42 AM
Do animals have a spirit ?

Ecc_3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?




Who are the two witnesses in revelation 11:confused

That isn't written but in Revelation the two witnesses are also called the two prophets so they are two male persons and since they are killed they are humans as opposed to angels.

oha
Oct 16th 2013, 01:11 PM
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

even the soul can sin and the soul can die

oha
Oct 16th 2013, 01:13 PM
Do animals have a spirit ?
Who are the two witnesses in revelation 11:confused



Job 27:3
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

animals have this spirit on them as man has

oha
Oct 16th 2013, 01:21 PM
Rom 7v7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.