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SecondGenesis
Oct 22nd 2013, 01:25 AM
Is "Faith" alone enough to be Saved ?

Faith without measure is enough for salvation. Anything less is conditional.

Aviyah
Oct 22nd 2013, 01:27 AM
Yep :D

For by grace you have been saved through faith.
And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
(Eph. 2:8-9)

Nick
Oct 22nd 2013, 01:27 AM
Well, it is completely conditional on repentance.

Bandit
Oct 22nd 2013, 01:32 AM
Is "Faith" alone enough to be Saved ?

Of course it is, but defining 'faith' is a topic often debated.

SecondGenesis
Oct 22nd 2013, 01:35 AM
Well, it is completely conditional on repentance.Repentance is unconditional with Faith without measure.


Of course it is, but defining 'faith' is a topic often debated.You cannot define Faith. it defines you.

ewq1938
Oct 22nd 2013, 02:22 AM
Is "Faith" alone enough to be Saved ?


Jas_2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Brother Paul
Oct 22nd 2013, 02:30 AM
Salvation is NOT by faith alone because the Bible says it is BY GRACE....through faith..justification before and from God IS by faith alone in the death. burial, and resurrection of Christ according to Paul, and before men our faith is justified as demonstrated by our works which God afore ordained for us to do (Ephesians 2:10). The life we lead is proof of our faith...you shall know them by their fruits.

Just my $.02

Brother Paul

SecondGenesis
Oct 22nd 2013, 02:42 AM
Jas_2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.The works of God produce the Faith of salvation.

Do you have the Faith of Salvation?

If not then your works are dead.

SecondGenesis
Oct 22nd 2013, 02:44 AM
Salvation is NOT by faith alone because the Bible says it is BY GRACE....through faith..justification before and from God IS by faith alone in the death. burial, and resurrection of Christ according to Paul, and before men our faith is justified as demonstrated by our works which God afore ordained for us to do (Ephesians 2:10). The life we lead is proof of our faith...you shall know them by their fruits.Just my $.02Brother PaulYou cannot have Grace without Truth. One without the other will not produce Faith.

ewq1938
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:06 AM
The works of God produce the Faith of salvation.

Do you have the Faith of Salvation?

If not then your works are dead.


Having faith is to believe in all of what God promises, which includes salvation.


The verses clearly say that if your works, what you do in life, do not reflect faith then you have a dead faith.

Walls
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:15 AM
Repentance is unconditional with Faith without measure.

You cannot define Faith. it defines you.

I think Bandit is correct. If we do not define "saved" then scripture affirms that one is saved by;

childbearing (1st Timothy 2:15)
water (1st Peter 3:20)
enduring (Matthew 10:20, 24:13)
abiding in a ship (Acts 27:31)

And further, far from faith, we must WORK out our own salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

SecondGenesis
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:19 AM
Having faith is to believe in all of what God promises, which includes salvation.The verses clearly say that if your works, what you do in life, do not reflect faith then you have a dead faith.Faith is a work. A work of God. To which he rested from on the seventh day and sanctified and blessed it.


I think Bandit is correct. If we do not define "saved" then scripture affirms that one is saved by;

childbearing (1st Timothy 2:15)
water (1st Peter 3:20)
enduring (Matthew 10:20, 24:13)
abiding in a ship (Acts 27:31)

And further, far from faith, we must WORK out our own salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).How much Faith do you have in this?

SecondGenesis
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:21 AM
Are we to have Faith in our Faith?

The Faith that God measured out to each of us?

Faith is everywhere.

ewq1938
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:34 AM
Faith is a work. A work of God.

Nope .

SecondGenesis
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:36 AM
Nope .I will leave you here.

ewq1938
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:38 AM
I will leave you here.


Do you mind leaving me in the main forum so I can check out the new threads?

Walls
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:40 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Walls

I think Bandit is correct. If we do not define "saved" then scripture affirms that one is saved by;

childbearing (1st Timothy 2:15)
water (1st Peter 3:20)
enduring (Matthew 10:20, 24:13)
abiding in a ship (Acts 27:31)

And further, far from faith, we must WORK out our own salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

How much Faith do you have in this?

OK. That's also an answer.

SecondGenesis
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:47 AM
The first question is, how much Faith did God measure out to you? And how do you determine it?

percho
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:53 AM
Of course it is, but defining 'faith' is a topic often debated.

I agree with you.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Matt 1:21

The faith is somewhere in that verse.

ewq1938
Oct 22nd 2013, 03:55 AM
The first question is, how much Faith did God measure out to you? And how do you determine it?


Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Barnes:


The measure of faith - The word “faith” here is evidently put for religion, or Christianity. Faith is a main thing in religion. It constitutes its first demand, and the Christian religion, therefore, is characterized by its faith, or its confidence, in God; see Mar_16:17; compare Heb. 11; Rom. 4.

Clarke:


Measure of faith - Μετρον πιστεως. It is very likely, as Dr. Moore has conjectured, that the πιστις, faith, here used, means the Christian religion; and the measure, the degree of knowledge and experience which each had received in it, and the power this gave him of being useful in the Church of God. See Rom_12:6.

SecondGenesis
Oct 22nd 2013, 04:01 AM
The first question is, how much Faith did God measure out to you? And how do you determine it? If you do not know these 2 things, then how can you operate in the Spirit? To any degree of effectiveness and consistency?

percho
Oct 22nd 2013, 04:02 AM
Jas_2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I believe this is faith: Christ in you the hope of glory. Let's see how that would work with what James stated.

Eph. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. By the good works you are ordained to do you will show your faith, Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Bandit
Oct 22nd 2013, 10:01 PM
Is "Faith" alone enough to be Saved ?

Faith without measure is enough for salvation. Anything less is conditional.


Of course it is, but defining 'faith' is a topic often debated.


I agree with you.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Matt 1:21

The faith is somewhere in that verse.

Hello percho,

Actually, I don't see the word 'faith' anywhere in that verse, but now if you were to say that "his people" are those who come to have faith in Him, that I could accept. But that brings up some questions, doesn't it? Like who are these people He will save? And how (or can) a person become one of His people? And how (or can) a person within this group depart from this group? Inquiring minds seek such answers.

Bandit
Oct 22nd 2013, 10:04 PM
I believe this is faith: Christ in you the hope of glory. Let's see how that would work with what James stated.

Eph. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. By the good works you are ordained to do you will show your faith, Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Hello percho,

I sense you have an unstated interpretation here, which you may think is obvious to others. Please be more explicit if you can.

Bandit
Oct 22nd 2013, 10:10 PM
The first question is, how much Faith did God measure out to you? And how do you determine it?


If you do not know these 2 things, then how can you operate in the Spirit? To any degree of effectiveness and consistency?

Hello 2ndGen,

So where in the bible does one find these questions (and their supposed answers)? And where does it state that we need such supposed answers to be effective and consistent? I'm sensing more of a philosophical approach here than a biblical one.

keck553
Oct 22nd 2013, 10:41 PM
I will leave you here.

I'll take a stab at defining "faith" by tying it in to "believe"

First off there is a dichotemy of sorts between the verb and noun usage of "faith." We tend to de-emphasize the verb usage and emphasize the noun usage for various reasons. When I had doubt, I was told to "have more faith." I'm sorry, but that's like telling a drowning person to "have a life preserver."

We are called in the Bible spiritual sons of Abraham based on this verse:

"And he (Abram) believed in the LORD, and He accounted to him as righteousness." (Genesis 15:6)

The writer of Hebrews goes on to say:

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. (Hebrews 11:6)

The Hebrew word fo "believe" is "aman." It's where we get "amen." In Hebrew the word means "verified" "established" "confirmed" and also...."to cause to be nourished." The meaning carries with it 100% certaintly. I am going to work through this last definition "to cause to be nourished." In context it can mean "to be carried by a nurse." God appeared to Abram in Genesus 17:1 as "El Shaddai" (God Almighty). The root of "Shaddai" comes from "Shad" which points to a nursing mother - protecting ferociously and nurturing lovingly.

In this context, (Abram's God being titled as "El Shaddai") is profound when we realize the word "amen" is first mentioned just before God reveals Himself as "El Shaddai." (Genesis 15:6).

An example of "amen" in our temporal lives that we can all relate to is how a sucking child "believes" in his/her mother. Can that child provide for itself? Does that child DO something to find nourishment? Does the child's suckling action earn it nourishment? Does not the mother provide the sustenance? What we see in Genesis 15:6 is Abram "rooting" as a newborn instinctively searches for sustenance. A few thousand years later, Jesus echo's this concept - "whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it..."

Faith is not just a mental exercise - it is all the actions we take because we trust in Christ with 100% confidence - and that should be greater than believing the pew you sit on Sunday morning won't collapse under your weight.

We are redeemed in Christ. We have been declared many things positionally because of what God has done in us. We need to be then who we are declared to be. That is the reality.

SecondGenesis
Oct 23rd 2013, 01:39 AM
Hello 2ndGen,So where in the bible does one find these questions (and their supposed answers)? And where does it state that we need such supposed answers to be effective and consistent? I'm sensing more of a philosophical approach here than a biblical one.Is this in any way prohibiting you from understanding what I have said? If not I do not see where that should concern you. Truth is truth.

Bro Berryl
Oct 23rd 2013, 01:41 AM
The bible says nothing alone brings salvation, not faith alone, not works alone, not baptism alone or not prayer alone. The grace of God is available to all, whether or not a person exercises his or her right to receive that grace depends on them.

When the message of the gospel is heard the recipient has a choice to either harden their heart and turn away from the truth or open their heart and receive it.

Example of a hard heart:Acts 26:27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.
Act 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Example of a open heart:Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

In the first example King Agrippa believed but did not exercise his faith by turning to Christ but instead trusted in himself for salvation. In the second example the Jews on Pentecost were pricked in their heart by the sermon that Peter preached. They believed at that point but they were not saved until they turned to the Lord and obeyed the conditions given by Peter to obtain forgiveness sins.

SecondGenesis
Oct 23rd 2013, 01:41 AM
Truth comes by the Spirit of Truth. With it, you can never go wrong.

Bandit
Oct 23rd 2013, 02:07 AM
Is this in any way prohibiting you from understanding what I have said? If not I do not see where that should concern you. Truth is truth.

Ah, so you have no biblical answer...

SecondGenesis
Oct 23rd 2013, 02:16 AM
Ah, so you have no biblical answer...Biblical answers are for biblical questions. Ask me a biblical question. And we will see where it takes us.

mailmandan
Oct 23rd 2013, 12:37 PM
Man is saved through faith and not by works; yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works. The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith in "Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is by faith IN CHRIST alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5;1); yet the kind of faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24).

SecondGenesis
Oct 23rd 2013, 12:55 PM
Man is saved through faith and not by works; yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works. The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith in "Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is by faith IN CHRIST alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5;1); yet the kind of faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24).What measure of Faith is required to be saved through Faith?

SecondGenesis
Oct 23rd 2013, 12:57 PM
I am very suspicious, that I am saved by the Spirit of God.

SecondGenesis
Oct 23rd 2013, 12:59 PM
Is Grace like Faith? God gives a certain measure of it, to each person?

SecondGenesis
Oct 23rd 2013, 01:01 PM
What measure of Grace does it take to be saved by Grace through Faith? What measure of Faith?

CaptKirk1
Oct 23rd 2013, 01:07 PM
Jas_2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

what saves us is the death of Christ as sin bearer, and faith is means God uses to have us access and get that applied towards us!

liked what John calvin said in this topic, as he stated that while we are indeed saved thru faith alone placed unto Jesus, that faith will not be alone, as after salvation, will have fruit to evidence saving has happened!

episkopos
Oct 23rd 2013, 01:49 PM
In any given situation we face today...faith in God is the key to overcoming.

SecondGenesis
Oct 23rd 2013, 01:55 PM
In any given situation we face today...faith in God is the key to overcoming.How much is required?

keck553
Oct 23rd 2013, 01:59 PM
I am very suspicious, that I am saved by the Spirit of God.

in another thread, you make a claim the the Spirit of God taught you holiness. In another place, it is written that the Spirit testifies to a soul (of their salvation).

Why are you then confused?

episkopos
Oct 23rd 2013, 02:18 PM
How much is required?

Enough to enter into the presence of God. That is enough.

Jade99
Oct 23rd 2013, 05:56 PM
How much is required?

Ok, I'm calling it. Based on your responses and questions in that beauty thread, not to mention my gut feeling from yesterday, I think you're a troll and your response leds me to think that maybe cult like responses.

Don't know who you are, but whatever you are, you are being influenced by your flesh. Just own it and leave and truly come to a saving knowledge of knowing Christ as your Lord and Savior, if you have not.

If you are truly a Christian, then you need to go before God now and confess.

Bandit
Oct 23rd 2013, 07:11 PM
Ok, I'm calling it. Based on your responses ... I think you're a troll ...

I would have to say that I'm in agreement with you here, Jade99.

Jade99
Oct 23rd 2013, 07:24 PM
I would have to say that I'm in agreement with you here, Jade99.

I was hoping I was wrong. I was seriously rooting for him yesterday.

mailmandan
Oct 23rd 2013, 09:41 PM
What measure of Faith is required to be saved through Faith?

Are you referring to Romans 12:3? - For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Are you really trying to ask how much faith does it take or what kind of faith does it take? Our faith must trust exclusively in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation in order to be saved.

Curtis
Oct 23rd 2013, 10:32 PM
We are saved by grace, but it requires faith to be able to access this grace. Faith allows us to experience our salvation (grace) which was given unto us in the beginning before the world was created.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The measure of faith is not a particular size or amount but it is a tool used for measuring things. We measure things by faith.

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

These things can only be measured by faith.

Curtis
Oct 23rd 2013, 10:38 PM
What measure of Grace does it take to be saved by Grace through Faith? What measure of Faith?


Maybe you are thinking of this measure.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

SecondGenesis
Oct 24th 2013, 01:39 AM
Ok, I'm calling it. Based on your responses and questions in that beauty thread, not to mention my gut feeling from yesterday, I think you're a troll and your response leds me to think that maybe cult like responses. Don't know who you are, but whatever you are, you are being influenced by your flesh. Just own it and leave and truly come to a saving knowledge of knowing Christ as your Lord and Savior, if you have not. If you are truly a Christian, then you need to go before God now and confess.1 Corinthians, Chapter 9, 22: To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

SecondGenesis
Oct 24th 2013, 01:47 AM
Maybe you are thinking of this measure.Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: No, I am not talking about this measure.

ISRAEL
Oct 24th 2013, 01:48 AM
Did the thief on the cross had faith alone or faith and works ?

SecondGenesis
Oct 24th 2013, 01:48 AM
Romans, Chapter 12, 3:God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Jade99
Oct 24th 2013, 03:48 AM
1 Corinthians, Chapter 9, 22: To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Don't know how this verse relates, but whatever floats your boat buddy.

I'm in my bed chillin watching Fraiser and when I came back to this thread, this scripture came to mind, regarding you, my dear.

1 John 4:1-3 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.