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cuban
Oct 28th 2013, 02:57 PM
The True Essence of Faith in Christ is often mistaken for what has been termed "Lordship Salvation."
I believe this creates an unnecessary extreme in contrast that misses the mark, and is an oversight of the required balance.

I am sure we can all agree that the Power of God's Grace is what produces a Living and Tangible Faith in Jesus Christ. But that Faith is manifested in His imputed Righteousness as we walk as He walked.
Following Jesus alone and bearing witness to Him as LORD, must become More than a mere psychological profession of faith..
It must become More than just a mental assent which only renders a form of godliness, but wholly denies the power thereof. (2 Tim. 3:5).

Perhaps I am beating a dead horse here, but I believe a powerless Gospel is a Dead Gospel.

I am reminded of the classical Romans 7 struggle of the wretched man striving against the flesh and sin.
And of course, these skirmishes can optimistically be perceived as evidence of our salvation, and the renewing of the minds as our spirit wars with the unprofitable.

But at what point does the sinner tire of rising and falling on that see-saw? Is it God's will for us to continue in sin? Is it not His will to give us all we ask in accordance with it?

If yes, then at what point does the follower of Christ despise sin to the point where they Truly seek the LORD for deliverance, knowing that with God ALL things are possible?
At what point does the saint realize that sin must no longer reign in their mortal bodies? (Rom. 6:12)
At what point do we claim that freedom that was purchased at an unspeakable price?

The True Essence of Faith is palpable. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not having been yet seen.


thoughts?

Love to you all.

episkopos
Oct 28th 2013, 03:25 PM
The True Essence of Faith in Christ is often mistaken for what has been termed "Lordship Salvation."
I believe this creates an unnecessary extreme in contrast that misses the mark, and is an oversight of the required balance.

I am sure we can all agree that the Power of God's Grace is what produces a Living and Tangible Faith in Jesus Christ. But that Faith is manifested in His imputed Righteousness as we walk as He walked.
Following Jesus alone and bearing witness to Him as LORD, must become More than a mere psychological profession of faith..
It must become More than just a mental assent which only renders a form of godliness, but wholly denies the power thereof. (2 Tim. 3:5).

Perhaps I am beating a dead horse here, but I believe a powerless Gospel is a Dead Gospel.

I am reminded of the classical Romans 7 struggle of the wretched man striving against the flesh and sin.
And of course, these skirmishes can optimistically be perceived as evidence of our salvation, and the renewing of the minds as our spirit wars with the unprofitable.

But at what point does the sinner tire of rising and falling on that see-saw? Is it God's will for us to continue in sin? Is it not His will to give us all we ask in accordance with it?

If yes, then at what point does the follower of Christ despise sin to the point where they Truly seek the LORD for deliverance, knowing that with God ALL things are possible?
At what point does the saint realize that sin must no longer reign in their mortal bodies? (Rom. 6:12)
At what point do we claim that freedom that was purchased at an unspeakable price?

The True Essence of Faith is palpable. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not having been yet seen.


thoughts?

Love to you all.

Agreed! Romans 7 indeed describes the plight of untold numbers of Christians who have been renewed inwardly but yet walk without victory because of the hold the flesh has on us. But Romans 7 is just a question that is answered in Romans 8. We are set free by putting on Jesus Christ. Before Christ became available to us, we could never have done something like putting off the old man...we would have just been a vegetable of sorts if that were possible. But since the grace provision of an abiding in the light with Jesus...we have now the option of forsaking the old man with his bent on sinfulness and of putting on Christ as a type of clothing or armour that affects the way we perceive and influence the world around us. We can love as Jesus loved through the new man. This life then transforms our characters slowly into His very likeness...since it is the practice of righteousness that makes us perfect (mature) in what we have been walking in.

Peace to you

cuban
Oct 28th 2013, 04:51 PM
Agreed! Romans 7 indeed describes the plight of untold numbers of Christians who have been renewed inwardly but yet walk without victory because of the hold the flesh has on us. But Romans 7 is just a question that is answered in Romans 8. We are set free by putting on Jesus Christ. Before Christ became available to us, we could never have done something like putting off the old man...we would have just been a vegetable of sorts if that were possible. But since the grace provision of an abiding in the light with Jesus...we have now the option of forsaking the old man with his bent on sinfulness and of putting on Christ as a type of clothing or armour that affects the way we perceive and influence the world around us. We can love as Jesus loved through the new man. This life then transforms our characters slowly into His very likeness...since it is the practice of righteousness that makes us perfect (mature) in what we have been walking in.

Peace to you

episkopos,

Thank you so much for your thoughts brother.
Amen. Yes, we have an Answer, there is a Way, Victory is now.

In Romans 8, we discover that Jesus Christ is the first-born among MANY brethren. That means us!
God's family of Righteous Sons walking in the liberty of Christ's Resurrection garments, in earnest expectation of total vivifying redemption!

We quickly forget how the old man forever longs to escape his grave! Unchecked, the stench of death overwhelms and gains dominion over that which is no longer his.
That dead mortal body must be animated in righteousness, and for better or worse, the LORD will finish that good work He has begun.
Lamentably, some are delivered unto satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the spirit may be saved. (1 Cor. 5)

If the chains have been broken, why do we return to the sad bondage that awaits us in idolatrous Egypt? Why choose death over life, why love slavery over freedom?

episkopos
Oct 28th 2013, 05:04 PM
episkopos,

Thank you so much for your thoughts brother.
Amen. Yes, we have an Answer, there is a Way, Victory is now.

In Romans 8, we discover that Jesus Christ is the first-born among MANY brethren. That means us!
God's family of Righteous Sons walking in the liberty of Christ's Resurrection garments, in earnest expectation of total vivifying redemption!

We quickly forget how the old man forever longs to escape his grave! Unchecked, the stench of death overwhelms and gains dominion over that which is no longer his.
That dead mortal body must be animated in righteousness, and for better or worse, the LORD will finish that good work He has begun.
Lamentably, some are delivered unto satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the spirit may be saved. (1 Cor. 5)

If the chains have been broken, why do we return to the sad bondage that awaits us in idolatrous Egypt? Why choose death over life, why love slavery over freedom?

Brother, your zeal is both genuine and precious! You are an encouragement here! :)

Neanias
Oct 28th 2013, 09:31 PM
Amen cuban! :) Good thread!

cuban
Oct 28th 2013, 11:10 PM
Brother, your zeal is both genuine and precious! You are an encouragement here! :)

Praise God brother. I only wish to express what He has deposited in me, and solemnly pursue the fulfillment of the promise!(Rom. 8:14)
I must warn you, the side effects can become contagious! Haha! :pp



Amen cuban! :) Good thread!

Thank you brother. I am blessed to have declared what is of most importance!

keck553
Oct 28th 2013, 11:16 PM
Thank you all for a refreshing thread.

Lord knows we all needed some salt....

Good job Cuban, God has blessed you.

cuban
Oct 31st 2013, 03:37 PM
Thanks brother keck, to Christ be all the glory.

I was expecting more of a discussion though. :) I must wonder if the silence is speaking louder than words.

keck553
Oct 31st 2013, 03:58 PM
The True Essence of Faith in Christ is often mistaken for what has been termed "Lordship Salvation."
I believe this creates an unnecessary extreme in contrast that misses the mark, and is an oversight of the required balance.

I am sure we can all agree that the Power of God's Grace is what produces a Living and Tangible Faith in Jesus Christ. But that Faith is manifested in His imputed Righteousness as we walk as He walked.
Following Jesus alone and bearing witness to Him as LORD, must become More than a mere psychological profession of faith..
It must become More than just a mental assent which only renders a form of godliness, but wholly denies the power thereof. (2 Tim. 3:5).

Perhaps I am beating a dead horse here, but I believe a powerless Gospel is a Dead Gospel.

I am reminded of the classical Romans 7 struggle of the wretched man striving against the flesh and sin.
And of course, these skirmishes can optimistically be perceived as evidence of our salvation, and the renewing of the minds as our spirit wars with the unprofitable.

But at what point does the sinner tire of rising and falling on that see-saw? Is it God's will for us to continue in sin? Is it not His will to give us all we ask in accordance with it?

If yes, then at what point does the follower of Christ despise sin to the point where they Truly seek the LORD for deliverance, knowing that with God ALL things are possible?
At what point does the saint realize that sin must no longer reign in their mortal bodies? (Rom. 6:12)
At what point do we claim that freedom that was purchased at an unspeakable price?

The True Essence of Faith is palpable. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not having been yet seen.


thoughts?

Love to you all.

"Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Pause.........Evey time I read "therefore" I need to stop and ask what "Therefore" is there for....

"Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity."



If we are walking in the power of the Spirit, our lives are being transformed. I gotta tell you, for me the bolded part of this passage is super-exciting. That I am being renewed to God's original image of man (read: Garden of Eden) is about the coolest thing I can look forward to! What gift can be greater?

Am I going to co-operate with God for that? You better believe it!

episkopos
Oct 31st 2013, 04:26 PM
Thanks brother keck, to Christ be all the glory.

I was expecting more of a discussion though. :) I must wonder if the silence is speaking louder than words.

To get more traffic here...just say you are either OSAS or NOT OSAS. ;)

cuban
Oct 31st 2013, 06:28 PM
"Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Pause.........Every time I read "therefore" I need to stop and ask what "Therefore" is there for....

"Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity."

If we are walking in the power of the Spirit, our lives are being transformed. I gotta tell you, for me the bolded part of this passage is super-exciting. That I am being renewed to God's original image of man (read: Garden of Eden) is about the coolest thing I can look forward to! What gift can be greater?

Am I going to co-operate with God for that? You better believe it!


:amen: brother, if there is a therefore, it's there for a reason!

Ephesians 4:10 He that came down is the same who also went up above all the heavens, that He might fill all things. 11 And indeed He gave some to be apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers;
12 with a view to the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ, 13 until we all may come to the unity of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be infants, being blown and carried about by every wind of doctrine, in the sleight of men, in craftiness to the deceit of error,
15 but speaking the truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, the Christ,
16 from whom all the body, having been fitted and compacted together through every assisting bond, according to the effectual working of one measure in each part, produces the growth of the body to the building up of itself in love.

17 Therefore, I say this, and testify in the Lord, that you no longer walk even as also the rest of the nations walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 having been darkened in the intellect, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance which is in them because of the hardness of their heart,
19 who, having cast off all feeling, gave themselves up to lust, to the working of all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you heard Him and were taught in Him, as the truth is in Jesus.
22 For you have put off the old man, as regards the former behavior, having been corrupted according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and to put on the new man, which according to God was created in righteousness and true holiness.

25 Therefore, putting off the false, "speak truth each with his neighbor," because we are members of one another. (Zech. 8:16)
26 "Be angry but do not sin;" do not let the sun go down on your wrath, (Psalm 4:4-5) 27 nor give place to the Devil.
28 The one stealing, let him steal no more, but rather let him labor, working what is good with the hands, that he may have something to give to the one that has need.
29 Let not any filthy word go out of your mouth, but if any is good to building up in respect to the need, that it may give grace to the ones hearing.

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed to the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and anger, and wrath, and tumult, and evil speaking be put away from you, along with all evil things.
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, having forgiven one another, even as also God forgave you in Christ.

I don't see any groundwork laid here where I am not to pursue stepping into the fullness of Christ Jesus.
Why would any true follower of The Way willfully reject this? I can only surmise it to be of ignorance...but once having the Truth shown to them, nothing more than a stiff-necked carnal desire to remain in their sins.
A wicked spirit of unbelief leaves Christians powerless and blinded to its effects.
---

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in Him, If you continue in My Word, you are truly My disciples.
John 8:32 And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

John 8:33 They answered Him, We are Abraham's seed, and we have been in slavery to no one, never! How do You say, You will become free?

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Everyone practicing sin is a slave of sin.
John 8:35 But the slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains to the age.
John 8:36 Therefore, if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed.
---

We are called to put into Practice our Belief! To put into Motion our Faith! To Continue in the Word!


Jeremiah 15:16 Your Words were found and I ate them; and Your Word was to me the joy and gladness of my heart. For I am called by Your name, O Jehovah, God of Hosts.

Ezekiel 2:8 But you, son of man, hear what I am saying to you. Do not be like that rebellious house of rebellion. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving to you.
Ezekiel 2:9 And I looked, and behold, a hand was extended to me. And behold, a roll of a book was in it.
Ezekiel 2:10 And He spread it before me, and it was written on the face and the back. And written on it were weepings, and mourning, and woe.

Ezekiel 3:1 And He said to me, Son of man, eat what you find. Eat this roll, and go speak to the house of Israel.
Ezekiel 3:2 So I opened my mouth, and He made me eat that roll.
Ezekiel 3:3 And He said to me, Son of man, make your belly eat, and fill your bowels with the roll, this that I give to you. And I ate, and it was in my mouth like honey for sweetness.

Rev. 10:9 And I went away toward the angel, saying to him, Give the little scroll to me. And he said to me, Take and eat it up, and it will make your belly bitter, but it will be sweet as honey in your mouth.

Jeremiah ate the Word, not just remembered them! He didn't just memorize the Logos, he became One with it! It transformed him!
Ezekiel ate the scroll with all its weepings, mournings, and woes!

You cannot eat the Word of Life and remain the same!
The Words of our Lord Jesus Christ are sweet to the lips, but bitter to the belly. With meat comes a cross, one that many are simply not willing to pick up and carry.

cuban
Oct 31st 2013, 06:35 PM
To get more traffic here...just say you are either OSAS or NOT OSAS. ;)


LOL, oh, is that the secret then, epi? haha!

OK, I'll take a stand.

Matt. 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but the ones who do the will of My Father in Heaven.
Matt. 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many works of power?
Matt. 7:23 And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; "depart from Me, those working lawlessness!" ( Psalm 6:8 )

Curtis
Oct 31st 2013, 08:08 PM
LOL, oh, is that the secret then, epi? haha!

OK, I'll take a stand.

Matt. 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but the ones who do the will of My Father in Heaven.
Matt. 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many works of power?
Matt. 7:23 And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; "depart from Me, those working lawlessness!" ( Psalm 6:8 )

What is the will of our Father?

cuban
Oct 31st 2013, 08:46 PM
What is the will of our Father?

Hi Curtis, welcome.

I believe the Father's Will is that we meekly hunger and thirst after righteousness, show mercy, pureness of heart, be makers of peace, and rejoice in persecution for righteousness' sake.(Matt. 5)
His Will is that we walk in the power Jesus Christ has lavishly bestowed upon us. He was sent for this purpose, to liberate the captives, not so that we continue returning to our shackles in shame.
It is impossible to walk in that righteous garment of Christ without holiness.

He came so that His disciples would become the salt of the earth, and so that our lights may shine as a testament to His glory amongst darkness.
In order to fulfill our mandate of becoming love, we must love the One who demands our surrender. He who loves Him, follows His commandments.

It is impossible to follow Him while abiding in sin, because there is no sin in Him.
Love knows no sin, because love thinks no evil. (1 Cor. 13)

Psalm 19:13 Also withhold Your servant from arrogant sins; do not let them rule over me; then I shall be upright, and I shall be innocent from great transgression.

Matt. 6:22 The lamp of the body is the eye. Then if your eye is sound, all your body is light.
Matt. 6:23 But if your eye is evil, all your body is dark. If, then, the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

Luke 6:43 For there is not a good tree that produces bad fruit, nor a bad tree that produces good fruit.
Luke 6:44 For each tree is known from its own fruit. For they do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
Luke 6:45 The good man brings forth good out of the good treasure of his heart. And the evil man brings forth evil out of the evil treasure of his heart, for his mouth speaks out of the abundance of his heart.

And so like Jesus, we are called to speak the truth in love. He is standing at the door and knocking, and many do not let Him in.
In other words, how can we claim to know Him if we do not remain in Him and He in us? Can we claim salvation while willfully putting Christ to shame without seeking His empowerment to overcome?

Titus 2:11 For the saving grace of God has appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12 instructing us that having denied ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live discreetly and righteously and godly in the present age,
Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Titus 2:14 who gave Himself on our behalf, "that He might redeem us from all lawlessness and purify a special people for Himself," zealous of good works.
Titus 2:15 Speak these things and exhort and convict with all authority. Let no one despise you.