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Bnjmn
Nov 18th 2013, 11:55 AM
Isaiah 53:9
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.



This his passage always confuses me. I feel that it is backwards. Would his death not be with the wicked (crucified with the wicked men) and his grave be the tomb (buried with the rich)?

Bro Berryl
Nov 18th 2013, 12:16 PM
Isaiah 53:9
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.



This his passage always confuses me. I feel that it is backwards. Would his death not be with the wicked (crucified with the wicked men) and his grave be the tomb (buried with the rich)?

I read a commentary on this verse and they explained it saying that it was the intent of the Romans to bury Jesus with the wicked due to him being crucified (a mode of death reserved for the worst criminals). Jesus was instead buried with the rich in a tomb. This prophecy was fulfilled when Joseph of Arimathea requested the body of our Lord (Matt. 27:57-60)

LandShark
Nov 18th 2013, 01:51 PM
Isaiah 53:9
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.



This his passage always confuses me. I feel that it is backwards. Would his death not be with the wicked (crucified with the wicked men) and his grave be the tomb (buried with the rich)?

First, this is just an idiomatic phrase. But to your question... perfection was not to taste death, the wages of SIN is death. So he that sinned not, that was perfect, entered a place made for the wicked or sinful. The use of "rich" I think is probably being elaborated on here:

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

ewq1938
Nov 19th 2013, 05:51 AM
Isaiah 53:9
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.



This his passage always confuses me. I feel that it is backwards. Would his death not be with the wicked (crucified with the wicked men) and his grave be the tomb (buried with the rich)?

I understand.


Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.


"he made his grave with the wicked"

he was buried alone in a tomb so this must refer to "the grave" as in this:


1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Christ went to "hell" after dying, also called "the grave" in the NT.



Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.


Did he die his death around those who were rich? Perhaps. Certainly he was in a rich man's tomb.

Gerhard Ebersoehn
Nov 19th 2013, 08:19 AM
Ja. What shall I say? Isaiah 53:9 ... so many persons, so many views.

Try verse 8 for the explanation of vers 9; it might just work.

"He was taken from the pit // prison // hell and from judgment // penalty // death the reward of sin"

WHEN?! WHERE?! HOW?!

While Suffering: The Passover of Yahweh-PLAGUE: that was upon HIM: IN LIFE BEFORE DEATH.

From this LIVE "prison and judgment" was He taken OUT: "OUT OF EGYPT-DARKNESS" of hell!

"For who shall declare his generation?”—who would foresee his RESURRECTION from the pit?

“For He was CUT OFF OUT: OF THE LAND OF THE LIVING”! For “God loosed the pains of DEATH”: IN LIFE of the “Man of SORROWS”. He was IN “the land of the living” which was HIS HELL and PIT when God the Father accepted from Him his spirit / soul which He “gave into the hands of the Father”: THEN: DIED; THEN: “was taken OUT FROM PRISON or PIT”.

Because “HE”—Himself—“made / caused / created / worked / energised / SUFFERED his grave with the wicked: “God with us”--"us" the “wicked”.

“But with the RICH” was He honoured “IN HIS DEATH”.
Christ after He had died was not further despised and rejected nor longer Man of Sorrows or acquainted with grief as He BEFORE He died, had been.

“For it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; it pleased the LORD to cause Him to grieve. It pleased the LORD WHEN (He had) made HIS SOUL AN OFFERING FOR SIN.”

Now “He shall see his seed; He shall proceed his life and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand” when “the God of Peace BROUGHT AGAIN FROM THE DEAD our Lord Jesus, that Great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of THE EVERLASTING COVENANT.”
“I do set My Bow in the Cloud [and the Cloud was Christ] and My Bow shall be for a TOKEN OF COVENANT between Me and the earth … Token of the EVERLASTING COVENANT between God and (the) LIVING.”

“… all that go out of the ARK / COFFIN”—place of the bones the only “substance” remaining incorruptible in DEATH and GRAVE.
“ALL that go out”—“ALL” of Whom Christ is “The First” and “First Sheaf waved before the LORD of the firstfriuits.”

Thus and therefore Christ “made his grave with the wicked” IN PASSOVER-SUFFERING OF YAHWEH, THUS “making his grave with the RICH IN HIS DEATH”; THUS having rested in peace and incorruptibility—his soul in the PLACE OF SAFETY, the Sanctury of the “HANDS OF HIS FATHER”.
“Your life is hid with Christ in God.”
“A fast and safe citadel is our LORD” [Luther]— “an Anchor of the soul both sure and steadfast … that for us within the veil entereth … the Forerunner, even Jesus.”

Once the child of God has died and his remains are buried, he is saved and forevermore safe in the protection of his heavenly Father. All because of Jesus Christ and JUST LIKE He was “Our Passover” and “Lamb of God”.

Gerhard Ebersoehn
Nov 19th 2013, 08:59 AM
I read a commentary on this verse and they explained it saying that it was the intent of the Romans to bury Jesus with the wicked due to him being crucified (a mode of death reserved for the worst criminals). Jesus was instead buried with the rich in a tomb. This prophecy was fulfilled when Joseph of Arimathea requested the body of our Lord (Matt. 27:57-60)

The intent of "the Jews therefore" -- John 19:31 -- CLEARLY was NOT "to bury Jesus". Crucified in any case were NEVER buried!

The Jews' intent was to have Jesus' 'remains' with broken and or severed bones CAST INTO GEHENNA-HELL <with the wicked> (as all crucified were reckoned).

That was why Joseph "AFTER these things" which "the Jews" and Pilate had come to agreement on already, "for fear of the Jews" that they might prevent him "to bury" Jesus "to the Law-of-Ethics-of-the Jews to bury" [the passover-Ethics of the Torah], "secretly went in to Pilate and asked him for the body of Jesus."

"The Jews" were the "wicked"; and "the rich" were Joseph and Nicodemus. Christ "made his grave with the wicked" by the Providence of his being God Almighty DESPITE the precautionary measures taken by "the Jews", "the wicked"; and "TRIUMPHED OVER THEM", and was "with the rich in his death" NEVERTHELESS, "having made of them [the wicked] a show openly" by having RAISED FROM THE DEAD CONTRARY THEIR 'INTENT'.