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View Full Version : Did Three Wise Men Really Visit Baby Jesus?



markboyd767
Nov 22nd 2013, 11:51 AM
Were there really three kings, or wise men, who came to worship Jesus while he was in the manger?

Rullion Green
Nov 22nd 2013, 11:57 AM
I dont see any good reason to distrust this account in the Gospels, maybe you know something ?

jayne
Nov 22nd 2013, 12:36 PM
Were there really three kings, or wise men, who came to worship Jesus while he was in the manger?

No. They came to visit him several days to several months later at his house. (Could have been up to 2 years later.) And we don't know how many there were. We do know he was presented with three gifts, but the number of magi is not told in the Bible.

Aviyah
Nov 22nd 2013, 12:50 PM
There were probably more than three magi in that organization considering they had some political relevance. Just my opinion :D.

Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise menfrom the east came to Jerusalem, saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; (Matt. 2: 1-3)

I don't think just three people would have caused this reaction.

Vakeros
Nov 22nd 2013, 04:16 PM
There were probably more than three magi in that organization considering they had some political relevance. Just my opinion :D.

Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise menfrom the east came to Jerusalem, saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; (Matt. 2: 1-3)

I don't think just three people would have caused this reaction.
It isn't the number so much as what they represent, both with their gifts and with their attitude. Who were the wise men?
The best answer I have heard came from an Iranian Christian who told me that their understanding is that they were Jewish descendants from the time of the exile, living in Persia, looking for the times that God foretold.
This event would be a bit like an American Statesman coming to Britain to see the Birth of the New King of Britain. All sorts of ructions etc.

Aviyah
Nov 22nd 2013, 05:02 PM
It isn't the number so much as what they represent, both with their gifts and with their attitude. Who were the wise men?
The best answer I have heard came from an Iranian Christian who told me that their understanding is that they were Jewish descendants from the time of the exile, living in Persia, looking for the times that God foretold.
This event would be a bit like an American Statesman coming to Britain to see the Birth of the New King of Britain. All sorts of ructions etc.

Dr. Chuck Missler seems to believe they were the product of Daniel's training long ago! It must have been the same group which Daniel was a part of.

the Seeker
Nov 22nd 2013, 05:10 PM
This is the same God who told Elijah that He had 3000 people serving Him in a protected location while Elijah was dealing with Ahab and all of that government's stupidity. This is the same God who had prophets reach out to the Gentile world while the Jewish people whom He has overseen were busy ruining His teachings with their "interpretations". This is God we are talking about. What can't He do other than sin?

Aviyah
Nov 22nd 2013, 05:25 PM
What can't He do other than sin?

Let anyone take His children away :D!

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. (John 10:29)

SirToady
Nov 22nd 2013, 07:33 PM
No. They came to visit him several days to several months later at his house. (Could have been up to 2 years later.) And we don't know how many there were. We do know he was presented with three gifts, but the number of magi is not told in the Bible.

Yes, I agree - not sure to years, but certainly weeks if not months.

adampjr
Nov 23rd 2013, 02:26 AM
My understand is also that they came later, and I think the theory that they came out of Daniel's area makes sense - they were probably well read in Daniel coming out of that area and culture of magis.

Most things I've read suggest there were three principle Magi, but obviously they would have had others with them.

ross3421
Nov 23rd 2013, 06:43 AM
It is interesting that they were mocking Herod when they said ...

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

The star would had eventually lead them to the child so it appears planned that they saw Herod and mocked him for it was this reason prophecy was fulfilled. It almost appears this was thier main purpose of the mission. But would wise men (magi) really go to mock the king for two years?

16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying,

18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.


Just thinking these were no ordinary wise men FROM THE EAST....

jayne
Nov 23rd 2013, 03:50 PM
ross, when I read about this account in Matthew - to me the "mocking" was all in Herod's paranoid mind.

He told them to come back and tell him where Jesus was so that he could worship him, too. (Which was a lie.) The Magi were warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, so they went home another way - never giving him a second thought. Herod believed them to have tricked him or fooled him (mocked him) on purpose. He was a delusional paranoid - killing all but one of his own sons and a wife so that no one could take his throne.

He believed this "King of the Jews" story and the Magi to be a conspiracy against him. It wasn't. But as he was convinced everyone was against him - that's why he killed the baby boys.

The Magi didn't stay in Bethlehem or Jerusalem for two years. Their sole purpose was to find Jesus, present him with gifts, and acknowledge His kingship. King Herod really wasn't more than a blip on their radar screen - a guy to ask directions from and who called for them to ask them questions.

The two years came from Herod asking them when he talked the them that one time when they first saw the star. His decision on killing the baby boys was based on that information they gave him on that one (possible two) visit(s). "He sent soldiers to kill all the children in Bethlehem and in all the surrounding territory who were two years old and younger, according to the time that he had learned from the magi."

shepherdsword
Nov 23rd 2013, 04:02 PM
I think that due to Herod's slaying of any child under two that the Magi came one to two years after his birth. I am not sure if it was only three because the number wasn't given. However,we are told in Luke that the shepherd's came with haste and saw the baby in the manger. I agree with Missler that these men were probably greatly influenced by the teachings of Daniel and understood the timetable he gave in chapter 9 in his book.

Blessings :)

Christina
Nov 23rd 2013, 05:20 PM
Not three. The bible isnt specific on that. There may have been as many as 12. Dont know where the 3 came from

Jake
Nov 23rd 2013, 05:44 PM
Not three. The bible isnt specific on that. There may have been as many as 12. Dont know where the 3 came from

3 came from the 3 gifts presented to Jesus.

Vakeros
Nov 23rd 2013, 10:29 PM
I think that due to Herod's slaying of any child under two that the Magi came one to two years after his birth. I am not sure if it was only three because the number wasn't given. However,we are told in Luke that the shepherd's came with haste and saw the baby in the manger. I agree with Missler that these men were probably greatly influenced by the teachings of Daniel and understood the timetable he gave in chapter 9 in his book.
Blessings :)
An off-spin of that is that Dan 9 would point to Messiah's coming and NOT his baptism. This is something I have worked out separately but good connection.

ross3421
Nov 23rd 2013, 10:35 PM
ross, when I read about this account in Matthew - to me the "mocking" was all in Herod's paranoid mind.

He told them to come back and tell him where Jesus was so that he could worship him, too. (Which was a lie.) The Magi were warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, so they went home another way - never giving him a second thought. Herod believed them to have tricked him or fooled him (mocked him) on purpose. He was a delusional paranoid - killing all but one of his own sons and a wife so that no one could take his throne.

He believed this "King of the Jews" story and the Magi to be a conspiracy against him. It wasn't. But as he was convinced everyone was against him - that's why he killed the baby boys.

The Magi didn't stay in Bethlehem or Jerusalem for two years. Their sole purpose was to find Jesus, present him with gifts, and acknowledge His kingship. King Herod really wasn't more than a blip on their radar screen - a guy to ask directions from and who called for them to ask them questions.

The two years came from Herod asking them when he talked the them that one time when they first saw the star. His decision on killing the baby boys was based on that information they gave him on that one (possible two) visit(s). "He sent soldiers to kill all the children in Bethlehem and in all the surrounding territory who were two years old and younger, according to the time that he had learned from the magi."

Where did the wise men stay for up to two years? I mean why did they not see Jesus before this and waited??? Why did not the star take them directly to Jesus the first time? Remember prophecy was fulfilled and Herod had to be moved to do what he did...

ewq1938
Nov 24th 2013, 02:17 AM
I dont see any good reason to distrust this account in the Gospels, maybe you know something ?


Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.


They came to a home.



Luk 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
Luk 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
Luk 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Luk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Luk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Luk 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Luk 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Luk 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
Luk 2:15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.


The shepherds saw Jesus in a manger.

Two very different events and times.