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ChangedByHim
Nov 23rd 2013, 08:47 PM
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (Luke 10:18 KJV)

Past
Present
Future


Which is it?

Noeb
Nov 23rd 2013, 09:47 PM
all of the above

Bro Berryl
Nov 23rd 2013, 10:02 PM
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (Luke 10:18 KJV)

Past
Present
Future


Which is it?

There are a couple of things going on here but before I get into it let me explain a few things first by using some passages.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

The ruler of this world is under the control of the word of God, the gospel of Jesus Christ. When Jesus rose from the dead God granted him all power in heaven and in earth, that means the Devil has no power unless we give it to him.

When Jesus said he beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven he was saying Satan was losing his power. Isaiah used the same language in Isaiah 14, and who was he talking about then? The king of Babylon who was going to lose his rule and authority.

Isaiah 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

So my vote is that this passage has past

ChangedByHim
Nov 23rd 2013, 10:04 PM
all of the above

I was going to add that as an option... Care to elaborate why you think this?

Old man
Nov 23rd 2013, 10:56 PM
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (Luke 10:18 KJV)

Past
Present
Future


Which is it?

I vote Past. He said He saw the event. The particular event He is referring to had already taken place in relation to the the time of the conversation He was having.

Noeb
Nov 23rd 2013, 11:07 PM
I was going to add that as an option... Care to elaborate why you think this?It's defeat. Like when Lucifer fell, cursed at the fall, God/Job showed him up, men received power over devils, sin in the flesh was condemned via Jesus' Cross, and his future whooping of course.

SirToady
Nov 24th 2013, 12:21 AM
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (Luke 10:18 KJV)

Past
Present
Future


Which is it?
I believe Christ is referring to the past, so some of the references in Revelation I believe is a recounting.

I believe this occurred between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2

Isaiah 14:
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Revelation 12:4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Jude 1:
6. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

I made this brief as possible without a lot of added comments and scripture.

jeffweeder
Nov 24th 2013, 12:24 AM
Greetings

In Jesus name, the 70 had success over the enemy...,and satan was seen falling from heaven.
I would think that satan would have been falling from heaven everytime Jesus drove out demons, etc, prior to the seventy.
All of this is prior to the cross.
Like falling into a bottomless pit.

ewq1938
Nov 24th 2013, 02:36 AM
Revelation 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great
star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the
third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Revelation 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the
third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the
waters, because they were made bitter.


this is satan. he is that great star which burned like a
lamp...brightness...thats what his name also means

lucifer
1966

01966 heylel {hay-lale'}

from 01984 (in the sense of brightness); TWOT - 499a; n m

AV - Lucifer 1; 1

Lucifer = "light-bearer"
1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer
1a) of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)
2) (TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon


he was the shining morning star...so when he is cast out he is
described as a great star that was shining brightly like a lamp when
he fell.




Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall
from heaven.

This isnt literal lightning but a falling or shooting star. One that
has that long tail of light that appears like a bolt of lightning,
which also denotes how bright he is, or at least likes to think he is.


lightning
796

796 astrape {as-trap-ay'}

from 797; TDNT - 1:505,86; n f

AV - lightning 8, light shining 1; 9

1) lightning
1a) of the gleam of a lamp


"the gleam of a lamp"

Revelation 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great
star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the
third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Revelation 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the
third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the
waters, because they were made bitter.

"burning as it were a lamp"

ewq1938
Nov 24th 2013, 02:39 AM
[/I]Revelation 12:4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Jude 1:
6. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

I made this brief as possible without a lot of added comments and scripture.

Rev 12:4 occurs before the birth of Jesus so impossible to have happened in Genesis.

The Jude verses happened in the 6th chapter of Genesis.

SirToady
Nov 24th 2013, 03:53 PM
Rev 12:4 occurs before the birth of Jesus so impossible to have happened in Genesis.

The Jude verses happened in the 6th chapter of Genesis.

Jesus had no birth - he is everlasting. If you are referring to His incarnate birth, of course it is possible to have occurred in Genesis since He beheld it.

ewq1938
Nov 25th 2013, 12:48 AM
Jesus had no birth - he is everlasting. If you are referring to His incarnate birth, of course it is possible to have occurred in Genesis since He beheld it.

You are badly incorrect on both. Jesus was born, who he was before that human name was and is eternal of course. Jesus was not born in Genesis.

ross3421
Nov 25th 2013, 07:51 AM
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (Luke 10:18 KJV)

Past
Present
Future


Which is it?

Future

9 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

The 5th trumpet is where the house of Satan's prisoners are opened. This releases the "flood" upon the earth for 150 days like the days of Noah.....

It appears perhaps Christ was prophesying when he said this as there were already demons on the earth ...

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Present

Now the reason I do not say this is due to chapter 12 as we see when he falls from heaven he has only a short time and I think that does not qualify for the last 2000+ years. However I guess he could have fallen in the present but did not open the pit until a later time...

ewq1938
Nov 25th 2013, 08:23 AM
Now the reason I do not say this is due to chapter 12 as we see when he falls from heaven he has only a short time and I think that does not qualify for the last 2000+ years.

Because 2000 years is a long time to an eternal God? How long is a "short time" to such beings?

Redeemed by Grace
Nov 25th 2013, 01:27 PM
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (Luke 10:18 KJV)

Past
Present
Future


Which is it?

To the future:

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.
11 "And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.
12 "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time."
13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.
14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
15 And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.
16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.
17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
25 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

Matthew 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Daniel 11:31 "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
32 "By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.
33 "Those who have insight among the people will give understanding to the many; yet they will fall by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plunder for many days.
34 "Now when they fall they will be granted a little help, and many will join with them in hypocrisy.
35 "Some of those who have insight will fall, in order to refine, purge and make them pure until the end time; because it is still to come at the appointed time.
36 "Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.

Daniel 12:8 As for me, I heard but could not understand; so I said, "My lord, what will be the outcome of these events?"
9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.
10 "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
11 "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
12 "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!
13 "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

SirToady
Nov 25th 2013, 05:28 PM
You are badly incorrect on both. Jesus was born, who he was before that human name was and is eternal of course. Jesus was not born in Genesis.

Perhaps I was not clear, The Son, the Word - He who created everything by the word of his mouth and has no beginning and no ending, became incarnate per prophesy through the Virgin Mary who called Him Jesus. Now who other than Christ would know these things? It seems plausible that between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 something very drastic occurred. I believe we are given glimpses of that event throughout the Bible.

Redeemed by Grace
Nov 25th 2013, 06:42 PM
Need to remember who was walking within the Garden at creation time:

Genesis 3:8 They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

SirToady
Nov 25th 2013, 09:05 PM
Need to remember who was walking within the Garden at creation time:

Genesis 3:8 They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

"LORD GOD" - or Jehovah God, it is used often in the Old Testament. This term is very important, for it brings the Name of God from the Old Testament through the New Testament where Jesus personally comes to earth in the flesh. The word "JEHOVAH" is made up of two Hebrew words, "Jahweh" and "Havah." "Jahweh" is the word for "I AM."

John 1:1-3
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

Colossians 1
15 He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 (http://biblehub.com/colossians/1-16.htm)For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.…

ewq1938
Nov 26th 2013, 01:22 AM
"Jahweh" is the word for "I AM."

No, "hâyâh" is the word for "I am"



H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

Ta-An
Nov 26th 2013, 06:50 PM
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (Luke 10:18 KJV)

Past
Present
Future


Which is it?
I believe it to be a past and future event.
Past: Maybe even before Adam and Eve.... because of the deceit in his heart that was there already... we read of the rulers, principalities and powers (which I believe to be evil) in Gen 6 already... so the fallen angels with Lucifer was very active in their operation very early years of he Bible already.
And then off cause end time Future event when his reign will be completely stopped!:pp

Right now he is very active... :( in his work deceiving people

Ta-An
Nov 26th 2013, 06:52 PM
No, "hâyâh" is the word for "I am"



H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.
Correct...I agree :)