PDA

View Full Version : Who does the Father draw?



LookingUp
Dec 3rd 2013, 07:21 PM
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44).

Who does the Father draw? He draws those who draw near to Him.
“Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded” (James 4:8).

Who does God fill? He fills the hungry.
“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied” (Mt. 5:6). “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink” (John 7:37). “Let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost” (Rev. 22:17).

To whom does God give grace? He gives grace to the humble.
“God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble” (James 4:6).

pekoe
Dec 4th 2013, 12:31 AM
Hi LookingUp.
People who love God (in other words, are "drawn"to Him, will love (or be drawn to) Jesus also.

That's all Jesus meant.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Jn8.42

The people were questioning who Jesus was.

Simple.

Noeb
Dec 4th 2013, 12:41 AM
What pekoe said!

John 6:44 is not about only some being drawn. The Father tries to draw all

"they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us"

but many reject the knowledge of God -Romans 1. Those that do not reject Him come to Jesus.

"he that doeth truth cometh to the light"

pekoe
Dec 4th 2013, 12:48 AM
Hi Noeb.
You got it right brother. People turn it into something Jesus totally did not mean.

Redeemed by Grace
Dec 4th 2013, 01:14 AM
If only searching for the same words and joining them together were the best way to find the true meaning of the text.... it sure make studying a whole lot easier.

Yet in context, John continues to show the soviergnty of God in salvation's call...

John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

Every one who has heard and learned from God... they then come to Jesus.

And Jesus further clarifies:

John 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

And then notice what happens next... most of his disciples turned from Jesus and walked away...

John 6:66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.

So then, the drawing is initiated by God and then those who He draws, they themselve draw back to Him.

This is what I see the scriptures declaring....

Noeb
Dec 4th 2013, 03:07 AM
If only searching for the same words and joining them together were the best way to find the true meaning of the text.... it sure make studying a whole lot easier.Who did that?



Yet in context, John continues to show the soviergnty of God in salvation's call...Yes, God chose to make man capable -Romans 1.



John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.


Every one who has heard and learned from God... they then come to Jesus. That's what we said.
"THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD"
God tries to draw all. Those that do not reject him and do the truth will come to Jesus. You have to hear and learn, not just hear. A teacher can teach and the lesson not be learned.



And Jesus further clarifies:

John 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

And then notice what happens next... most of his disciples turned from Jesus and walked away...For what reason?
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Does it say the Father did not try to draw them? No!!!


So then, the drawing is initiated by God and then those who He draws, they themselve draw back to Him.

This is what I see the scriptures declaring....Exactly, God made man capable -Romans 1.

Redeemed by Grace
Dec 4th 2013, 03:23 AM
Who did that?


Yes, God chose to make man capable -Romans 1.


That's what we said.
"THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD"
God tries to draw all. Those that do not reject him and do the truth will come to Jesus. You have to hear and learn, not just hear. A teacher can teach and the lesson not be learned.


For what reason?
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Does it say the Father did not try to draw them? No!!!

Exactly, God made man capable -Romans 1.

I appreciate your opinion, however, I'm compelled to disagree based on the text.

pekoe
Dec 4th 2013, 03:42 AM
Hi Redeemed By Grace.

Yet in context, John continues to show the soviergnty of God in salvation's call...
God calls everyone. Those who respond are those who wanted to learn about Him. The context is Jesus comparing Himself to God. Unbelievers cannot come to Jesus because they don't believe in God. That's all He's saying.
If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Jn.14:23

ewq1938
Dec 4th 2013, 04:42 AM
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.


They were drawn to God from what they heard and learned from the prophets.


They CHOOSE to come to Christ because they were drawn to him from what they heard and learned. Naturally to learn of Him in scripture would make a person want to come nearer to Him. God didn't "force" or "drag" them at all. Knowledge of God drew them to God.


Proverbs 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

It is everyman's choice to choose the fear of the Lord.


Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

It is everyman's choice to choose to serve the Lord or not.


Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

It is everyman's choice to choose to seek the Lord and be rewarded for that decision.


Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us.

It is everyman's choice to choose seek and find the Lord.


Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

It is everyman's choice to choose to seek the Kingdom of God and his righteousness.

Noeb
Dec 4th 2013, 04:58 AM
I appreciate your opinion, however, I'm compelled to disagree based on the text.Clarification: based on your understanding of the text.

Nick
Dec 4th 2013, 06:39 AM
God draws who He chose (past tense). The book of life existed before creation.

pekoe
Dec 4th 2013, 09:34 AM
ewg1938,
They were drawn to God from what they heard and learned from the prophets.
Exactly. You drove that nail home!

pekoe
Dec 4th 2013, 10:03 AM
The book of life existed before creation.
He that overcometh...I will not blot out his name out of the book of life...Rev.3:5

Jesus has no power to blot any name out of the book of life, does He?

Curtis
Dec 5th 2013, 01:26 AM
He that overcometh...I will not blot out his name out of the book of life...Rev.3:5 Jesus has no power to blot any name out of the book of life, does He? There are two books of life. One is called, "the Book of life" and the other is called, "the Lambs Book of life". they are not the same book. In the book of life, names are added and blotted out every day, but in the Lambs Book of life the names were written in it before the foundation of the world. These names can not be added or taken away from this book. These are God's elect whom he knew ahead of time the people who would accept his Son Jesus Christ as their savior before he created the world.

Redeemed by Grace
Dec 5th 2013, 01:36 AM
Hi Redeemed By Grace.

God calls everyone. Those who respond are those who wanted to learn about Him. The context is Jesus comparing Himself to God. Unbelievers cannot come to Jesus because they don't believe in God. That's all He's saying.
If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Jn.14:23

Hi Pekoe,

I don't see the word supporting that God the Father calls everyone. I see the word supporting calling of the Sheep of the true Shepherd,which are those that the Father has given to the Shepherd.

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

John 10:29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,
15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

ewq1938
Dec 5th 2013, 01:40 AM
There are two books of life. One is called, "the Book of life" and the other is called, "the Lambs Book of life". they are not the same book.

There is no good reason to think there are two books of life.



In the book of life, names are added and blotted out every day, but in the Lambs Book of life the names were written in it before the foundation of the world. These names can not be added or taken away from this book.

That's opinion not fact. You can't set limits on what God can or can't do.



Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev_21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

These verses are clearly speaking of then same book, a book which if your name is not written within, you cannot enter the new city, but will be sent to the lake of fire.

pekoe
Dec 5th 2013, 12:27 PM
Hi Curtis.

There are two books of life. One is called, "the Book of life" and the other is called, "the Lambs Book of life". they are not the same book...
Or, all begin life with their names written in the book of life (and this is my belief.)

pekoe
Dec 5th 2013, 12:54 PM
Redeemed by Grace,

I don't see the word supporting that God the Father calls everyone. I see the word supporting calling of the Sheep of the true Shepherd,which are those that the Father has given to the Shepherd.

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

John 10:29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,
15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
ewg1938 in post #9 explained how God "draws" perfectly and I wish you would read what was said there. The Bible shows us how God brings about circumstances in the lives of all people so that people will turn to Him. Those who choose to repent and believe will be saved. Do you really think there are two books of life?

Redeemed by Grace
Dec 5th 2013, 01:31 PM
Redeemed by Grace,

ewg1938 in post #9 explained how God "draws" perfectly and I wish you would read what was said there. The Bible shows us how God brings about circumstances in the lives of all people so that people will turn to Him. Those who choose to repent and believe will be saved. Do you really think there are two books of life?

Hi Pekoe,

John writes as shown within the NASB:

John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

They way I read this is that the Father sends Jesus, and then the Father also sends to Jesus - in effect -- His Sheep. But because of the Father's will, the Sheep when they born don't know they are sheep until the Father 'enlightens' - that is to the "and they shall all be taught of God". Then they - is a subset of all mankind, and the all - modifies the they, for which Jesus later states that He does not lose any sheep. Jesus continues in vs 65 "...that no one can come to ME unless it has been granted him from the Father".

This tells me that God has authority over who belongs to Jesus, and a few lines later John writes that all that the Father gives to Jesus, Jesus doesn't lose one, except that which was written about Judas, so believers can see the fulfillment of God's sovereign will within Prophecy.

So by the text, I just can't agree with ewg1938's position.

pekoe
Dec 5th 2013, 01:45 PM
Hi Redeemed by Grace.

John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him
Look at the preceding verses and those after this verse. Why does Jesus make this statement? People were questioning who Jesus was. So we interpret this to mean:

Your view: God doesn't give it to people to receive Jesus.

My view: People who don't want Jesus really don't want God.

Which one?

Redeemed by Grace
Dec 5th 2013, 02:08 PM
Hi Redeemed by Grace.

Look at the preceding verses and those after this verse. Why does Jesus make this statement? People were questioning who Jesus was. So we interpret this to mean:

Your view: God doesn't give it to people to receive Jesus.

My view: People who don't want Jesus really don't want God.

Which one?

Hi back Pekoe,

To your specific question, would you accept "all the above"? Not saying this is you, but many times we look at God from behind our own glasses -- when if we would look through the lenses of the Bible instead, we can in parts see it completely different based on what God has revealed to us.

As with sin, Man is 100% accountable, and yet God can use the sin of man [Judas is easy to call out] to fulfill His will as with the charge against Jesus leading to His Crucifixion.

Walter
Dec 5th 2013, 10:12 PM
Deuteronomy 4:1-15, I Tim. 4:1-15. They all spoke the same thing, 1 Corinthians 1:10,

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Noeb
Dec 6th 2013, 12:33 AM
Hi Pekoe,

John writes as shown within the NASB:

John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

They way I read this is that the Father sends Jesus, and then the Father also sends to Jesus - in effect -- His Sheep. But because of the Father's will, the Sheep when they born don't know they are sheep until the Father 'enlightens' - that is to the "and they shall all be taught of God". Then they - is a subset of all mankind, and the all - modifies the they, for which Jesus later states that He does not lose any sheep. Jesus continues in vs 65 "...that no one can come to ME unless it has been granted him from the Father".

This tells me that God has authority over who belongs to Jesus, and a few lines later John writes that all that the Father gives to Jesus, Jesus doesn't lose one, except that which was written about Judas, so believers can see the fulfillment of God's sovereign will within Prophecy.

So by the text, I just can't agree with ewg1938's position.Question: what then is the point of what some may call natural revelation (spirit from God and law on heart) that makes one without excuse? Or the point of the oracles of God that make those to whom they are given responsible?

People that do not reject God and God does not turn over, or do the truth, whether by natural revelation or his word, come to the Light/Jesus. This is the clear teaching of scripture and the point of both. Otherwise, you would have people that do not reject God and God does not turn over, or do the truth, whether by natural revelation or his word, unable to come to Jesus because they needed more than God designed. God made and created everything to work according to his divine plan. If you do not reject God and God does not turn you over, and you do the truth, whether by natural revelation or his word, you come to Jesus according to the will of God. You come as he designated/ordained/made. Like Peter. He did not reject the knowledge of God. God did not turn him over. When he perceived Jesus, God revealed Jesus to (granted) Peter as the Christ.

Redeemed by Grace
Dec 6th 2013, 12:54 AM
Question: what then is the point of what some may call natural revelation (spirit from God and law on heart) that makes one without excuse? Or the point of the oracles of God that make those to whom they are given responsible?

Very good question Noeb. My answer would be that fits all of us. So all of us would have no excuse and then all of us would die in our sins as we refuse to seek for God. So in human terms, if no one seeks after God, and no one is righteous before God, then no one will be with God because of sin. Thus God makes another first move and send Jesus, and the world hated Him and the world killed Him, so then God makes another first move and send's His Spirit to those for who they father has given to Jesus and calls those to faith, again from human terms.

Noeb
Dec 6th 2013, 01:01 AM
Very good question Noeb. My answer would be that fits all of us. So all of us would have no excuse and then all of us would die in our sins as we refuse to seek for God. So in human terms, if no one seeks after God, and no one is righteous before God, then no one will be with God because of sin. Thus God makes another first move and send Jesus, and the world hated Him and the world killed Him, so then God makes another first move and send's His Spirit to those for who they father has given to Jesus and calls those to faith, again from human terms.But they do seek God, understand, and do good. God gave his word and commandments expecting man to obey because he can, else he could not be held accountable. Jesus wondered why oh why did his hearers not understand and said some were able to hear. What now?

pekoe
Dec 6th 2013, 02:57 AM
Redeemed by Grace,
To your specific question, would you accept "all the above"?
I can't accept all of the above, my friend, because the idea that God purposes to damn any person without offering a way out is completely against what the Bible teaches of Him.
I've heard the belief that God is under no obligation to offer mercy to anyone. How indifferent. How completely opposite from what the Son of God has taught is.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him...

What does this mean? It means;

Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Who comes to Jesus and why?

God went "BLING" and I saw the light...or...I learned about God and then heard Jesus speak and said to myself, "That Man came from God.

Which one?

Curtis
Dec 6th 2013, 11:07 PM
There is no good reason to think there are two books of life. That's opinion not fact. You can't set limits on what God can or can't do. Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev_21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. These verses are clearly speaking of then same book, a book which if your name is not written within, you cannot enter the new city, but will be sent to the lake of fire. There are many books used by God in his judging his people, and the world. Rev 12:20 speaks of books being opened, plural not singular. Some of the books Gods uses are these. "The book of life", " the Lambs book of life", "the book of works", "the book of remembrance". These books are records that God himself keeps. Father has his own book which would be "the book of life" which he records the names of all people who are born on planet earth. When a person die's and does not received Christ as their savior their names are blotted out of the book of life. Jesus has his own records in which he keeps track of which is the "lambs book of life." The names in this book were written before the foundation of the world before creation. The names in this book are God's elect whom he for knew before creation who would receive Jesus Christ for salvation. No name can be added or taken away from this book. You will not find one place anywhere in the Bible were someones name was ever added or blotted out from this book. Then we have the Holy Spirit who also keeps track of all the works, thoughts, words and intents of our hearts that we have spoken while living in physical bodies. As it is written, 1Jn 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1Jn 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." These three are our record keepers, God the Father, the Word, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, and they all are one and they all agree!!!! Every name found in the Book of Life on that judgement day will be the exact same names found in the Lambs Book of life. The Holy Ghost will also agree to all it findings and confirm them. The Lambs book of life is connected to the spiritual Kingdom of God, while the Book of life is connected to this physical earthly world. Names in the Book of life are constantly being updated every single day, where the names in the Lambs Book of Life are secure and can not be changed.

Walter
Jan 28th 2014, 11:23 PM
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44).

Who does the Father draw? He draws those who draw near to Him.
“Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded” (James 4:8).

Who does God fill? He fills the hungry.
“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied” (Mt. 5:6). “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink” (John 7:37). “Let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost” (Rev. 22:17).

To whom does God give grace? He gives grace to the humble.
“God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble” (James 4:6).

I'am in the words of Jesus Christ such as in the above post/quote, as far as when Jesus have said in John 15:1-27.

keck553
Jan 29th 2014, 12:18 AM
"Draw near to God" was written to God's elect.

One might consider this:

"8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

I don't think enemies of God draw near to Him. Self effort as an initiative is completely outside of the salvation equation. God alone is the source and the giver of our salvation.

Reynolds357
Jan 29th 2014, 12:16 PM
Romans 1 contains a simple truth that Calvin understood very well but for some reason Calvinists fail to see. God put the natural knowledge of God in the universe. He put a natural knowledge of God in the heart of man. That natural revelation calls all men to seek fellowship and reconciliation with their Creator. When man embraces that natural calling, the Power and Calling of the Holy Spirit begins to work in Him. When man rejects that natural calling, God hardens him and "gives him over" to the desires of his own debase mind.

Kalahari
Jan 29th 2014, 12:49 PM
Romans 1 contains a simple truth that Calvin understood very well but for some reason Calvinists fail to see. God put the natural knowledge of God in the universe. He put a natural knowledge of God in the heart of man. That natural revelation calls all men to seek fellowship and reconciliation with their Creator. When man embraces that natural calling, the Power and Calling of the Holy Spirit begins to work in Him. When man rejects that natural calling, God hardens him and "gives him over" to the desires of his own debase mind.

I agree, but what happened in man's call to seek fellowship with their Creator, they made idols or gave honour to nature as in stars, sun, moon, plants and animals. Our understanding and knowledge of God was corrupted so much with our sins that we could not recognized God anymore. God chose Israel in the old testament as a nation, a people to which He revealed Himself through His Spirit, Word and prophets. In the new testament He revealed Himself to His elect from each and every nation. If God do not reveal Himself to you, if He does not soften your heart, you will not and cannot recognize and accept Him. It is not man that rejects God and then God hardens him, no it is the other way round. Man did reject God, but God in His mercy came to man and soften his heart and lead him to repentance and salvation. The rest He left with their hardened hearts.

awestruckchild
Jan 29th 2014, 01:43 PM
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44).

Who does the Father draw? He draws those who draw near to Him.
“Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded” (James 4:8).

Who does God fill? He fills the hungry.
“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied” (Mt. 5:6). “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink” (John 7:37). “Let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost” (Rev. 22:17).

To whom does God give grace? He gives grace to the humble.
“God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble” (James 4:6).

He said when He was lifted up, He would draw ALL men to Himself.

Many are called but few are chosen because He gives sight to many blind men. They go out leaping with joy, but only one returns from the group.

Kalahari
Jan 29th 2014, 02:01 PM
He said when He was lifted up, He would draw ALL men to Himself.

Many are called but few are chosen because He gives sight to many blind men. They go out leaping with joy, but only one returns from the group.

Who are all the men Jesus would draw to Himself? Those the Father gave to Him (John 6:44).

Curtis
Jan 29th 2014, 02:58 PM
Who are all the men Jesus would draw to Himself? Those the Father gave to Him (John 6:44).

This is when the Father gave Jesus his Church. It was way back in the beginning when the Word was brought forth as Wisdom (Jesus) who would create the world.
The Father turns to His Son and tells him to ask of me for the nations, and I will give them to you for your inheritance. Jesus would then rule them (teach) with a iron rod and he will break to pieces men's wrong thinking about who he is and how he works.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree of the Lord: He said to Me, You are My Son; this day [I declare] I have begotten You. [Heb. 1:5; 3:5, 6; II Pet. 1:17, 18.]
Psa 2:8 Ask of Me, and I will give You the nations as Your inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth as Your possession.
Psa 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like potters' ware. [Rev. 12:5; 19:15.] (AMP)

We have evidence that Jesus asked the Father for what the Father asked him to ask for.

Rev 7:9 After this I looked and a vast host appeared which no one could count, [gathered out] of every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages. These stood before the throne and before the Lamb; they were attired in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.
Rev 7:10 In loud voice they cried, saying, [Our] salvation is due to our God, Who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb [to Them we owe our deliverance]!(AMP)

These are the ones the Father draws to himself. His elect Church which he foreknew.

awestruckchild
Jan 29th 2014, 03:30 PM
Who are all the men Jesus would draw to Himself? Those the Father gave to Him (John 6:44).

Then the Father gave Him all men, because Jesus IS GOD and the two agree.
Jesus said He would draw ALL men to Himself after He was lifted up.
But many are called but few are chosen.
Make it all fit, or you have got something wrong.

Kalahari
Jan 29th 2014, 03:48 PM
These are the ones the Father draws to himself. His elect Church which he foreknew.

Thank you Curtis I agree with you.

Noeb
Jan 29th 2014, 07:03 PM
No. It says all, not some. Look at the context. He draws all to judgement. Every knee will bow every tongue confess......

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world:


---
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

ristenk
Jan 29th 2014, 07:51 PM
This might have been talked about but please forgive me... how does the Father draw someone... like a person you have been praying for salvation for? How does a persons prayers for another persons salvation effect the situation?

Curtis
Jan 30th 2014, 01:10 AM
This might have been talked about but please forgive me... how does the Father draw someone... like a person you have been praying for salvation for? How does a persons prayers for another persons salvation effect the situation?

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

We know God works through his body which is us, his Church. The Holy Spirit leads and guides us to either pray, or go, stay, and or speak. We are at his beckon call to do what ever he leads us to do or go. The fun part is that it is the Lord who is the doing the works through us and not our self's. We are the only face of God people will see in this life that are dead in their sins. Every word, and action you do carry's power to influence the lost.

2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

episkopos
Jan 30th 2014, 03:10 AM
There are many books used by God in his judging his people, and the world. Rev 12:20 speaks of books being opened, plural not singular. Some of the books Gods uses are these. "The book of life", " the Lambs book of life", "the book of works", "the book of remembrance". These books are records that God himself keeps. Father has his own book which would be "the book of life" which he records the names of all people who are born on planet earth. When a person die's and does not received Christ as their savior their names are blotted out of the book of life. Jesus has his own records in which he keeps track of which is the "lambs book of life." The names in this book were written before the foundation of the world before creation. The names in this book are God's elect whom he for knew before creation who would receive Jesus Christ for salvation. No name can be added or taken away from this book. You will not find one place anywhere in the Bible were someones name was ever added or blotted out from this book. Then we have the Holy Spirit who also keeps track of all the works, thoughts, words and intents of our hearts that we have spoken while living in physical bodies. As it is written, 1Jn 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1Jn 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." These three are our record keepers, God the Father, the Word, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, and they all are one and they all agree!!!! Every name found in the Book of Life on that judgement day will be the exact same names found in the Lambs Book of life. The Holy Ghost will also agree to all it findings and confirm them. The Lambs book of life is connected to the spiritual Kingdom of God, while the Book of life is connected to this physical earthly world. Names in the Book of life are constantly being updated every single day, where the names in the Lambs Book of Life are secure and can not be changed.

Some very good thoughts here. It is nice to see someone that is thinking outside the box and along biblical lines. I do see the contents of the books differently of course.

There are 2 resurrections and since the same people are not resurrected twice there would need to be different people listed for each one. Like two buses with 2 sets of passengers. Or 2 books...one for each resurrection. Now the book of remembrance is something else but there is no space here for that. :)

episkopos
Jan 30th 2014, 03:14 AM
The Father draws those who are humble and broken. He cares for the fatherless and the widows....the poor in spirit....these the Father draws to His Son that they might receive comfort....kingdom style! :)

RogerW
Jan 30th 2014, 09:17 PM
The Father draws all men without distinction, but not all men without exception. Since all who are drawn come to Him it makes zero sense to argue the Father draws every single human being without exception. Unless of course one pushes for universal salvation of every human being.

I know this has been said before, perhaps even in this thread, "all men" simply means the Father does not limit whom He draws by nation, tribe or tongue. Rather "all men" are mankind from all the nations, tribes and tongues of the earth. Salvation is not limited to only one tiny nation in the middle east, but goes out unto ALL wherever they be found.

LookingUp
Jan 31st 2014, 10:37 PM
The Father draws all men without distinction, but not all men without exception. Since all who are drawn come to Him it makes zero sense to argue the Father draws every single human being without exception. Unless of course one pushes for universal salvation of every human being.

I know this has been said before, perhaps even in this thread, "all men" simply means the Father does not limit whom He draws by nation, tribe or tongue. Rather "all men" are mankind from all the nations, tribes and tongues of the earth. Salvation is not limited to only one tiny nation in the middle east, but goes out unto ALL wherever they be found.So...what Epi said above. :-)

Christinme
Feb 1st 2014, 07:09 AM
He said when He was lifted up, He would draw ALL men to Himself.Agreed that is what He said.

John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself (NASB)

evil2saved
Feb 1st 2014, 08:37 PM
There are two books of life. One is called, "the Book of life" and the other is called, "the Lambs Book of life". they are not the same book. In the book of life, names are added and blotted out every day, but in the Lambs Book of life the names were written in it before the foundation of the world. These names can not be added or taken away from this book. These are God's elect whom he knew ahead of time the people who would accept his Son Jesus Christ as their savior before he created the world.

Hello Curtis,
I've always been curious of predestination vs. God's foreknowledge. More and more I study the bible and see the revelations of the world through the grace of God, I believe in both. I've always believed of God's foreknowledge because He is the almighty. I've always been stuck on predestination. I believe that God, being all sovereign, does predestine some (ie. Jesus's disciples, Paul, etc. ?) and the rest of us can choose to accept Christ but only saved by the Holy Spirit. Am I reading and understanding this right? Thanks.