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Joelb58
Dec 9th 2013, 03:53 AM
What is the meaning of the part that God can create children out of stones? Thanks amd God bless.



John the Baptist appeared, preaching in the desert of Judea
and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!”
It was of him that the prophet Isaiah had spoken when he said:
A voice of one crying out in the desert,
Prepare the way of the Lord,
make straight his paths.
John wore clothing made of camel’s hair
and had a leather belt around his waist.
His food was locusts and wild honey.
At that time Jerusalem, all Judea,
and the whole region around the Jordan
were going out to him
and were being baptized by him in the Jordan River
as they acknowledged their sins.


When he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees
coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers!
Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
Produce good fruit as evidence of your repentance.
And do not presume to say to yourselves,
‘We have Abraham as our father.’
For I tell you,
God can raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
Even now the ax lies at the root of the trees.
Therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit
will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
I am baptizing you with water, for repentance,
but the one who is coming after me is mightier than I.
I am not worthy to carry his sandals.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
His winnowing fan is in his hand.
He will clear his threshing floor
and gather his wheat into his barn,
but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Aviyah
Dec 9th 2013, 04:04 AM
I'm going to take a stab in the dark as a mostly uneducated Christian and say they represent the Gentiles.

LandShark
Dec 9th 2013, 05:50 AM
I'm going to take a stab in the dark as a mostly uneducated Christian and say they represent the Gentiles.

That is probably a good call sis... pure gentiles or Israel in the nations which, until they come in faith, makes them gentiles anyway. These two verses kind of go with the thought:

Isaiah 51:1 Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
Isaiah 51:2 Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.

exitludos
Dec 9th 2013, 06:19 AM
In Hebrew, 'sons' is baniym (בּנים).

In Hebrew, 'stones' is 'avaniym (אבנים).

In Hebrew, 'sons' and 'stones' are spelled very similarly, with minor differences in vowels and the pronunciation of the letter ב ('b' for sons, but 'v' for stones).


Jesus is making a pun.

'God is able to raise up baniym for Abraham from these 'avanyim.

Walls
Dec 9th 2013, 07:59 AM
The overriding issue of the whole Bible is, "do you have life?" And if you have life, do you have God's life? From the Tree of Life in Genesis to the Book of John, the whole thrust of God's work is to get man into a position where he can partake of the divine nature.

When John met the Pharisees, he indicated that their father was a serpent. "Brood of vipers" means "having one's origin in a serpent" (Gen.1:11-12). That is,

the Pharisees claimed human life
the Pharisees claimed human life from Abraham to whom the promise of the earth or Land was given
the Pharisees claimed to search the scriptures and have the life that God wanted them to have (Jn.5:39)

John Baptist rebuts them with their true heritage - sons of the Serpent. And the only power that the Serpent has, is not life, but death (Heb.2:14). So John is telling them that the only solution to them is "fire". That is the best thing for a corpse - to be burned ere it stinks and spreads bacteria.

The "stones" are dead people. That is, they are made for building a building, but are useless for God's building because of death. So Jesus calls the first "stone" for His building (Jn.1:42). It is Peter. Peter is renamed "stone" and promised that he will would be a stone in God's building. But together with being called a stone, Peter is asked to confess Who Jesus is. Peter responds by admitting that Jesus is the Son of God. And we are assured that;

"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God" (1st John 4:15).

So the result of Peter confessing was God's life in Peter. That is why in Matthew 16:18; "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it", the GATES OF HADES are mentioned. Death will have effect on the stones selected for God's House.

And Peter never forgot this because he writes in 1st Peter 2:5;

"Ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

And in Galatians 3:29 it is;

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Thus, while the Pharisees languished in a false sense of "life" and "position" in God's economy, John Baptist was predicting that they would, as rejectors of the coming One, remain a "brood of the Serpent" while God raised up Peters (living stones) all over the world. That is, you and I are the children of Abraham via Jesus Christ and the New Birth of John Chapter 3, for the building of His House, the Church. And it is the Church that gains the earth and finally rules it (Matt.21:43; Rom.4:13; 2nd Tim.2:12; Rev.2:27, 5:10, 22:5).

Francis Drake
Dec 9th 2013, 01:03 PM
In Hebrew, 'sons' is baniym (בּנים).

In Hebrew, 'stones' is 'avaniym (אבנים).

In Hebrew, 'sons' and 'stones' are spelled very similarly, with minor differences in vowels and the pronunciation of the letter ב ('b' for sons, but 'v' for stones).


Jesus is making a pun.

'God is able to raise up baniym for Abraham from these 'avanyim.

A very interesting point. We miss so much of the significant nuances unless we can understand Hebrew.

Not being a linguist, I don't know whether this is also significant?
Am I right in seeing the frequent interchange of the "B" and "V" between English and Hebrew (along with many other languages), so that Avraham becomes Abraham. I believe that the same is true with Russian.
Is there some conflict of pronunciation between the "V" sound and the "B" sound in the Hebrew itself?

Curtis
Dec 9th 2013, 01:15 PM
Interesting that the stones here are real people in which God does and can call to awaken from their slumber or sleep. We were once asleep until the Lord awakened us. The words, "to raise up" means to awaken from sleep. The building of the body of Christ is likened unto each of its citizens are referred to as living stones, that is being built for a habitation of God through the Spirit. Yet each of these living stones are required to place them self's in that building where this Church is being constructed, which is in Mt Zion the city of the living God (this is the job site). This is known as the "building of the body of Christ". Those whom the Lord gave as gifts to the Church are suppose to be teaching us how this is accomplished.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying (building) of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

bunnymuldare
Dec 9th 2013, 05:29 PM
The overriding issue of the whole Bible is, "do you have life?" And if you have life, do you have God's life? From the Tree of Life in Genesis to the Book of John, the whole thrust of God's work is to get man into a position where he can partake of the divine nature.

When John met the Pharisees, he indicated that their father was a serpent. "Brood of vipers" means "having one's origin in a serpent" (Gen.1:11-12). That is,

the Pharisees claimed human life
the Pharisees claimed human life from Abraham to whom the promise of the earth or Land was given
the Pharisees claimed to search the scriptures and have the life that God wanted them to have (Jn.5:39)

John Baptist rebuts them with their true heritage - sons of the Serpent. And the only power that the Serpent has, is not life, but death (Heb.2:14). So John is telling them that the only solution to them is "fire". That is the best thing for a corpse - to be burned ere it stinks and spreads bacteria.

The "stones" are dead people. That is, they are made for building a building, but are useless for God's building because of death. So Jesus calls the first "stone" for His building (Jn.1:42). It is Peter. Peter is renamed "stone" and promised that he will would be a stone in God's building. But together with being called a stone, Peter is asked to confess Who Jesus is. Peter responds by admitting that Jesus is the Son of God. And we are assured that;

"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God" (1st John 4:15).

So the result of Peter confessing was God's life in Peter. That is why in Matthew 16:18; "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it", the GATES OF HADES are mentioned. Death will have effect on the stones selected for God's House.

And Peter never forgot this because he writes in 1st Peter 2:5;

"Ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

And in Galatians 3:29 it is;

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Thus, while the Pharisees languished in a false sense of "life" and "position" in God's economy, John Baptist was predicting that they would, as rejectors of the coming One, remain a "brood of the Serpent" while God raised up Peters (living stones) all over the world. That is, you and I are the children of Abraham via Jesus Christ and the New Birth of John Chapter 3, for the building of His House, the Church. And it is the Church that gains the earth and finally rules it (Matt.21:43; Rom.4:13; 2nd Tim.2:12; Rev.2:27, 5:10, 22:5).

AMEN.

Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stoney heart out of your flesh and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Mark 9:2 Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves.
Peter, James, John.
Peter the rock, James the supplanter, John... Jehovah is a gracious giver.
The rock... is supplanted... by grace.
Our stony heart... is replaced by a heart of flesh.... by God's merciful grace.

exitludos
Dec 9th 2013, 08:13 PM
Is there some conflict of pronunciation between the "V" sound and the "B" sound in the Hebrew itself?
This is relatively similar to how 'c' can represent both the sound 's' or the sound 'k'.

The distinction between a 'b' and a 'v' is marked with a dagesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet#Dagesh), a small dot that sits inside of the letter ב. With the dot (בּ), it is a 'b'. Without the dot (ב), it is a 'v'. If it helps, think of the 'v' as a 'bh'.

B → V = B → BH

This is the same thing that happens with the letter 'p' and 'ph'.

P → F = P → PH

If you are into this sort of thing, the 'b' (and the 'p') are shifted from a bilabial stop into a labio-dental non-sibilant fricative. (In other words, on this chart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipa#Consonants), the addition of a dagesh to the Hebrew letter moves us from the first column into the second column, and down two spaces.)

Different dialects are sure to pronounce some things differently even when they use the same letters. This is probably how the 'b' and 'v' distinction originally emerged. But since the dagesh did not exist until the late first millennium AD, the only visual distinction between 'sons' (בנים) and 'stones' (אבנים) would have been the aleph (א).

(And yes, Avram and Avraham are more accurate transliterations.)

Walls
Dec 10th 2013, 05:46 AM
AMEN.

Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stoney heart out of your flesh and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Mark 9:2 Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves.
Peter, James, John.
Peter the rock, James the supplanter, John... Jehovah is a gracious giver.
The rock... is supplanted... by grace.
Our stony heart... is replaced by a heart of flesh.... by God's merciful grace.

And then again, New Jerusalem, God's consummate masterpiece with man, has foundations of the wall full of precious stones. Genesis Chapter 2 introduces the stones (onyx) and Revelation 21 shows their special position in eternity future.