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mikebr
Feb 28th 2014, 12:11 PM
I'm not talking about being guilty, I'm talking about guilt as an emotion. Should we feel guilty about the misfortune of others? Should guilt be our motivation for doing good?

ChangedByHim
Feb 28th 2014, 12:38 PM
Personally, I never find guilt to be a good motivator.

Slug1
Feb 28th 2014, 01:07 PM
I'm not talking about being guilty, I'm talking about guilt as an emotion. Should we feel guilty about the misfortune of others? Should guilt be our motivation for doing good?I've found that when I have to speak with or even counsel others concerning "guilt" I have found that guilt is usually an emotion that can be confused with conviction. Initially, the misery or feelings which can be slight to even overpowering must be discerned. Conviction, while bringing feelings like guilt have a purpose to point a person into the right direction and as they move in that right direction, then the conviction leads to building the person up as they submit to the Holy Spirit... who is the source of the conviction.

On the other hand, when it comes to guilt in ALL the cases I've experienced in counseling of others, the guilt initially feels exactly like conviction. After all, the enemy is an imitator and a deciever. But in the case of guilt, the purpose is to point a person in the wrnog direction. This usually manifests in the form(s) of lashing out or reacting in a fleshly (carnal) manner. Guilt HALTS a person and if not addressed, will eventually bring a person "down" and never build the person up. Guilt will keep a person in misery of whatever form the misery is for the person.

As for the misfortune of another... is this more about a prompting from the Holy Spirit? This is a form of conviction not against you but instead, it is for the purpose of moving you in a direction that God is to use you to possible reach out to that person in need? Could be as simple as to interceed for the person. When the Holy Spirit prompts a person to lift another in prayer, He may allow the person who is to pray to "feel" what the misfortune may be causing (feelings) in the person who is experiencing the misfortune. This is referred to "standing in the GAP" as a person is convicted to lift/intercede/pray for a SPECIFIC topic or reason concerning the person in misfortune. In other words, the Holy Spirit ALLOWS you to KNOW exactly HOW to lift the other person because you "feel" what the other person is feeling.

When the feeling goes away... then you know the need for prayer is over and God has answered.

keck553
Feb 28th 2014, 01:25 PM
I'm not talking about being guilty, I'm talking about guilt as an emotion. Should we feel guilty about the misfortune of others? Should guilt be our motivation for doing good?

Emotion should never be a prime motivator to engage in any action. Emotion doesn't lead people to do what is right in God's eyes, rather it leads people to do what gives them relief. Its self centered, therefore invokes Isaiah 64:6. The current moral decline of the United States is a perfect example of being led by guilt.

Slug 1 is correct, but I might add that the gap between guilt and conviction is as great as the gap between the rich man and Abraham.

awestruckchild
Feb 28th 2014, 01:35 PM
I'm not talking about being guilty, I'm talking about guilt as an emotion. Should we feel guilty about the misfortune of others? Should guilt be our motivation for doing good?

Why would one feel guilty at the misfortune of someone else unless he caused it to happen?
I am thinking you maybe are asking....because I have more than enough, should guilt cause me to give to someone who has a lack?
But God promised us we would have enough to eat, drink, and wear. He has kept His promise to me.
My motivation for giving food to someone who does not have enough is not guilt. It is love.
I think some feelings of guilt might come to me if I had extra and did not share with someone who had none. If I see a man who is willing to work, and who works hard when a job comes to him,yet his children have a need for food or clothing because he barely makes the rent to keep a roof over their heads, I would feel guilt if I turned away from that. The guilt would not come from their misfortune but would come from knowing that I did not help when God has given me the means to do so by providing me more than enough for the day. The guilt would come from knowing that I chose to hoard some money for my old age rather than help a child who was hungry or cold. In my gut, I would know that I was seeking security from a stockpile of money rather than trusting God everyday for my needs. This is what would cause my guilt. Not their misfortune.
Now, I live very simply. I am content with this. It is great freedom to be content and to not have to keep wanting things that unbelievers want. I don't buy the most expensive car, computer, etc. i don't have power locks and power windows because the cheapest car on the lot at carmax, which was a honda civic, did not have them. I have not had a vacation in quite a few years now but am planning on taking one to Canada soon if all works out.
But if a man needs help, yet he drives a Lexus, can I use that as an excuse to let his children go hungry. Of course I can't. I will be smart about my help though. I will not give him money, because his lust has caused hunger for his children. I will bring him groceries or bring them shoes or coats to make sure they are provided for.
I can't expect that man, if he has not met God, to be able to control his lust for expensive things. But I can give wisely, to alleviate his childs need. One time, a man became upset with me because I called the power company and got his electric bill current. I had been helping his family for some time by giving them money, but his wife got a DWI coming home from a bar and that was the end of me just giving them checks. It wasn't the end of me helping their children, but I saw that I would have to direct the money where it needed to go because they could not be trusted to spend it wisely. He got upset, but his children had heat. The situation devolved even further when I saw the man in a crack parking lot at three in the morning. It would be too long of a story to explain why I was there, and at that time of the morning, but I was definitely not there to buy crack.
Hmmm....I have rambled on in a tangent, as usual. Sorry. I can't stop from doing it!
If you feel guilt at someones lack, you need to examine why with Gods' help, and then go from there.

carboy
Feb 28th 2014, 03:16 PM
Have always liked the statement, "Emotions are good servants but lethal masters."

Emotions are easily manipulated. Easily aroused.

Even some eastern philosophies and religions know the value of control over ones emotions. We as believers in Jesus Christ are to put on the mind of Christ. "Everything in prayer and supplication unto the Lord."

The big eyed impoverished child is always a heart breaker of a poster. We have it so good and yet???

mikebr
Feb 28th 2014, 08:46 PM
I've found that when I have to speak with or even counsel others concerning "guilt" I have found that guilt is usually an emotion that can be confused with conviction.


Emotion should never be a prime motivator to engage in any action. Emotion doesn't lead people to do what is right in God's eyes, rather it leads people to do what gives them relief. Its self centered, therefore invokes Isaiah 64:6. The current moral decline of the United States is a perfect example of being led by guilt.

Slug 1 is correct, but I might add that the gap between guilt and conviction is as great as the gap between the rich man and Abraham.


Why would one feel guilty at the misfortune of someone else unless he caused it to happen?

.


Have always liked the statement, "Emotions are good servants but lethal masters."

Emotions are easily manipulated. Easily aroused.



The big eyed impoverished child is always a heart breaker of a poster. We have it so good and yet???

Thanks. I understand the difference between guilty and conviction. This doesn't seem to be conviction. I have a hard time enjoying what I have been given because I always think about people who struggle. I buy things and I feel guilty because there are people in this world who don't have food. I can never enjoy Christmas for the same reasons. Does God want us to give to the point that we ourselves are impoverished? I wonder if the life I live is a blessing from God or the product of self? Why has God blessed me and not others. I don't deserve any more than anyone else.

awestruckchild
Feb 28th 2014, 09:43 PM
Mike! God has blessed you so you can bless others and have your own needs met.
If you have a vague and bothersome prickling that does not allow you to enjoy your own provision, ask God to show you what it is He wants you to do. He will take the vagueness and make it more clear and show you what to do.
I agree that it is sometimes hard to enjoy Christmas because it has become a feast and a glutting for every lust of our eyes. It is not enough to give a child a few gifts or even just one. They must have twenty under the tree. On the first Christmas, God gave His Gift to us and wise men gave their gifts of worship and thanks. We have turned it into something different. It is about fulfilling our lust for things of this world. That SHOULD be bothersome to us. We should not want to turn it into something obscene for our children.
I have not given a Christmas gift to anyone for many years now. If I see something I want to buy for someone, I give it when I find it and buy it. It isn't that I don't ever want to give anyone a gift. I just don't want to give it to them on Christmas because it gives me that feeling you have described. It feels obscene to me. The frenzied tearing into gifts by children makes me feel awful. It goes on and on and it just makes me nauseous, watching them do it and not even spend two seconds before tearing into the next one, littering the ground with ripped paper and being loud and brash and stepping on and breaking some of the things in their....orgy. I give the gift to my family of buying food so we can gather and eat. I make sure I am not present to see the children opening their gifts. I just can't bear it. But neither do I make any trouble and complain out loud. I just skip that part.

keck553
Feb 28th 2014, 10:03 PM
Thanks. I understand the difference between guilty and conviction. This doesn't seem to be conviction. I have a hard time enjoying what I have been given because I always think about people who struggle. I buy things and I feel guilty because there are people in this world who don't have food. I can never enjoy Christmas for the same reasons. Does God want us to give to the point that we ourselves are impoverished? I wonder if the life I live is a blessing from God or the product of self? Why has God blessed me and not others. I don't deserve any more than anyone else.


None of us deserve anything, but the infidel who won't provide for his family or those he brought into this world deserves even less. The Bible doesn't provide and "out" for this axiom, and that culture had far less opportunities than this one does, by any stretch As Jesus said, he who has will be given more but he who has nothing even that will be taken away. Perhaps those who live off the labor of others feel guilty? In this entitlement society, I have doubts.

But I know that those of us who struggle to keep 25% of our earnings to feed and clothe our families and also help needy and desperate folks enslaved to this entitlement based perversion we call our government don't have time to "feel" guilty. I don't spend even 1% on non-essentials of what I give, and not even a fraction of what is taken out of my hand and redistributed on behalf of people who are more generous with other people's resources than they are with their own. We are too busy cleaning up the mess others leave at our feet. Praise God we still have some capability to help the needy with the leavings we do get to keep, praise God that He somehow multiplies those resources so we can be His answer to disparate prayers.

Charity is a product of love, not a device for enslavement.

mikebr
Mar 1st 2014, 03:55 AM
None of us deserve anything, but the infidel who won't provide for his family or those he brought into this world deserves even less. The Bible doesn't provide and "out" for this axiom, and that culture had far less opportunities than this one does, by any stretch As Jesus said, he who has will be given more but he who has nothing even that will be taken away. Perhaps those who live off the labor of others feel guilty? In this entitlement society, I have doubts.

But I know that those of us who struggle to keep 25% of our earnings to feed and clothe our families and also help needy and desperate folks enslaved to this entitlement based perversion we call our government don't have time to "feel" guilty. I don't spend even 1% on non-essentials of what I give, and not even a fraction of what is taken out of my hand and redistributed on behalf of people who are more generous with other people's resources than they are with their own. We are too busy cleaning up the mess others leave at our feet. Praise God we still have some capability to help the needy with the leavings we do get to keep, praise God that He somehow multiplies those resources so we can be His answer to disparate prayers.

Charity is a product of love, not a device for enslavement.

Not sure what you mean by this but I think we all live off the labor of others. Lets say I wait on tables. Only folks who work will tip us to serve them. Maybe I make tires for a living, Only people who can afford tires will buy them. Isn't that living off their labors.
I'm sorry that you are having such a rough time.

awestruckchild
Mar 1st 2014, 08:07 AM
I sort of understood him....
We have created an entire system where many people stand on the back of one worker.
And amazingly, they never stop to think it out and say - I am investing my money so it can grow, but HOW does it grow? And HOW am I able to get my bread without any of the sweat of my own brow...?
It is specifically designed, this system, to keep the man from seeing that the only answer, even though it is not visible to him, is that he is getting his bread from the sweat of someone elses brow. He never stops to wonder HOW his money can possibly just magically grow.

mikebr
Mar 1st 2014, 01:23 PM
I understand, but I see hungry kids everyday. Its not their fault. It may be their parents fault but its not theirs. I'm thankful for school lunches and people who bring in clothes and buy them gifts for Christmas and birthdays. I'm also thankful that some of my tax money goes to feed them. Just to be perfectly honest, it seems that more of our tax money goes to feed them, than does our tithes. But that's another subject all together.

keck553
Mar 1st 2014, 03:06 PM
Not sure what you mean by this but I think we all live off the labor of others. Lets say I wait on tables. Only folks who work will tip us to serve them. Maybe I make tires for a living, Only people who can afford tires will buy them. Isn't that living off their labors.
I'm sorry that you are having such a rough time.

None of what you said involves theft


I understand, but I see hungry kids everyday. Its not their fault. It may be their parents fault but its not theirs. I'm thankful for school lunches and people who bring in clothes and buy them gifts for Christmas and birthdays. I'm also thankful that some of my tax money goes to feed them. Just to be perfectly honest, it seems that more of our tax money goes to feed them, than does our tithes. But that's another subject all together.

Parents need to be held accountable for their deeds. And i agree no child should go hungry. but since the church is banned from entering public schools and the mere mention of God provokes lawsuits, your assessment about taxes and tithes/charity in this context might be a bit biased.

Thomas Forward
Mar 1st 2014, 04:53 PM
I'm not talking about being guilty, I'm talking about guilt as an emotion. Should we feel guilty about the misfortune of others? Should guilt be our motivation for doing good?

Compassion shouldn't be mistaken for guilt.


Blessings.

jayne
Mar 1st 2014, 09:06 PM
I agree with Thomas.

We as Christians should be all about emulating Jesus Christ. Jesus did so many things to help the sick, downtrodden, poor, diseased, unloved, and rejected.

And He never did it out of guilt. The Bible says quite a few times that Jesus was moved "with compassion". There is a huge difference between compassion and guilt as Thomas pointed out.

Guilt is a terrible motivation. Guilt - [a] either when one has been forgiven or [b] when one hasn't done anything wrong - is crippling, sucks the joy out of you, is a waste of time, and ends up being a weapon of self-abuse.

If you see someone in need of food - buy them groceries - happily. But don't go home and feel guilty about the food you are putting on your family's plate. Instead - fill up your emotional bank account with GRATITUDE to God for His blessings to you and yours.

Gratitude for what we have will spur us in the right direction. Guilt won't. Or at least it won't foster compassion - only a works-based lifestyle.

keck553
Mar 2nd 2014, 04:57 AM
Just to be clear, I'd rather go hungry or without a coat than allow any child to suffer the same. And I am sure anyone here would do the same. And that really has nothing to do with being a Christian.

mailmandan
Mar 2nd 2014, 06:42 PM
I'm not talking about being guilty, I'm talking about guilt as an emotion. Should we feel guilty about the misfortune of others? Should guilt be our motivation for doing good?

I believe love should be what motivates us for doing good. After all, it motivated God. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life (John 3:16). For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love (Galatians 5:6). Love is the first fruit of the Spirit mentioned..But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience etc.. (Galatians 5:22-23). If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing (1 Corinthians 13:2-3).