PDA

View Full Version : Matthew Mini – ministudy ch 24-25



Old man
Apr 27th 2014, 05:58 AM
There have been a great many threads posted to argue …… I mean discuss; intensely and with great immovable conviction, the interpretation of what is called the “Olivet discourse.” Here Jesus sits down with His disciples and tells them what to expect in the future. One of the most frequently and seemingly hottest contested theories about the discourse is concerning when all this will or has taken place. I have never studied it in depth so perhaps now is as good a time as ever, plus I feel lead to do it now to at least settle my own questions about it. And I am at that point in my personal studies through Matthew (so perfect timing).

I will progress through this mini study here in this forum so those interested can see how I work my way through it. If there is anything that peaks your interest or brings up questions or creates the desire to stone me … please feel free to copy and paste the “offending” section of this study to the main forum and discuss it where everyone else may participate. If you want me to clarify something, send me a message or a PM and I can edit or add an additional post to clarify what my thoughts and the points I was trying to relay were. I can also clarify it in another forum if a separate thread is started about the “offending” section.

Matt. 24:1-2


24:1-2 “Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. (2) And He said to them, ‘Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.’”

I need to start with these two verses although they are not actually part of the Olivet Discourse. These verses record Jesus’ comment as He was coming out of the temple. Later when Jesus is sitting on the Mount of Olives his disciple come and question Him about His comments in verses 1 and 2. Verse 1 and 2 are often if not always taken as being part of the Olivet Discourse (the rest of chapter 24 and 25) yet I don’t think they should be. I believe them to be the end of or the conclusion of the context of events Matthew is recording which started in 21:19-20 and continued through confrontation (antagonizing) of the P&S (Pharisees and Sadducees) to the exiting of the temple.


Matt 21:19-20 “Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, "No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you." And at once the fig tree withered. (20) Seeing this, the disciples were amazed and asked, "How did the fig tree wither all at once?" (21) And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. (22) "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

Mark 11:13-21 “… He found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. …”
The symbolism of the fig tree here I believe is referring to Jerusalem or perhaps the religious establishment and their lack of fruit even in an out of season period (God’s silence for about 500 years) because of their lack of faith. The people were sitting in a land of darkness and in the shadow of darkness and death under the P&S’s watch (Matt 4:15-16). They were not bearing fruit. They didn’t recognize the time of visitation and because they didn’t and had no fruit (they were to be a testimony to the nations of God’ great mercy) so Jerusalem is to be destroyed just as the fig tree was because it had no fruit in the hour of its visitation by Jesus looking for the fruit it was created to produce. This is borne out by the different parables Jesus rebukes the P&S with during His visits to the city and temple.

Because the P&S (who at one time may have been called to be the salt of the earth) over time lost their savor; they were to be cast out and Jerusalem and the temple would literally be trampled under the feet of men (Romans) (Matt 5:13). The destruction of the temple which He mentions here is the final and complete closure of the authority of the current religious system dominated and controlled by the corrupt P&S who were exalting themselves instead of bearing fruit among those of the house of Israel who were lost. This means the case is closed. Testimony has been given, evidence examined, the P&S have been found wanting. Judgment has been passed and the pronouncement of judgment given … Matt 24:1-2 “Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. (2) And He said to them, ‘Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.’”

Jesus’ comments about the temple brings to completion the context of events that began when Jesus first approached Jerusalem and came across an unfortunate fig tree. The comment Jesus made coming out of the temple and those He made regarding the P&S in the temple motivated the disciples to question Him as he sat on the Mount of Olives. While the questions the disciples asked were definitely regarding the temple and Jesus’ odd comments about it; Jesus’ answers are in regard to something else. This passage is a bit more confusing than it seems because it is mixing two different events. Verses 1 and 2 are linked to the Olivet Discourse starting in verse 3 only because of a misunderstanding the disciples had.

Old man
May 12th 2014, 03:01 AM
Matt. 24:3


Matt. 24:3 “As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, ‘Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?’”

Jesus has just told the disciples that the temple, which was His Father’s house would be destroyed. This after He had showed great zealousness over it when He turned over the money changer’s tables. Now they are coming to Him with some questions that they hope will give them a clear understanding of the situation. The questions they asked have as a foundation the nation’s Messianic expectation. This expectation was that the Messiah would come, defeat the Romans and elevate Israel to a place of international leadership. However Jesus has done nothing to prepare in any way for this to even be remotely possible at this time. To top it off Jesus just finished antagonizing the priests (even saying that they were going to be left out of the kingdom) and Pharisees who could have been a big help in rallying the people for the takeover.

Their misunderstanding is clearly seen by their attitudes and confusion when He died. They were not expecting Him to rise from the grave. When He died on the cross they thought that it was all over. In fact the times when Jesus mentioned to them anything about His coming to reign and judge they always thought in terms of the right then when He was going to march into Jerusalem and take over. Even when He mentions coming with the angels they could easily (and probably did) take that as symbolism regarding taking over Jerusalem with God’s power, approval and anointing. Even if they considered the angel part as literal they would be still see it as heaven itself helping to establish this earthly reign. The questions in verse 3 reveal the disciples clear misunderstanding of the roll the Messiah was playing and would play.

The first question: “when will these things happen?” They had been expecting Jesus (the one who they fully believed to be the Messiah) to be coming to Jerusalem to overthrow the Romans. Jesus even rode in on a donkey fulfilling the prophecy about the king coming into the city. Their question reflects their impatient in wanting to get on with it and when Jesus told them that the temple would be destroyed they couldn’t understand. It was clearly not something they were expecting to happen within their expectation of the messiah and what He was supposed to do.

The second question: “what will be the sign of Your coming?” Although the most popular way of viewing this question is that the parousia is the future visible return from heaven of Jesus or second coming; the actual application here in the minds of His disciples is the common usage of the word which is simply an advent or the arrival of a notable person, thing, or event, the act of coming upon a scene. This is more applicable to their idea of when was He going to march into Jerusalem and kick the Romans out? When was He going to do what everyone expected the Messiah to do according to the national Messianic expectation?

The third question: “what will be the sign of the end of the age?” The end of the age to them was the end of Roman rule and the exalting of Israel’s sovereignty over all the other nations of earth. The end of the Roman Empire would signal the end of the age and Christ setting up His reign in Jerusalem would signify the beginning of the new.

Jesus’ answers were however about something else which the disciple still would not understand until he arose from the grave and explained it to them. It’s like they asked Him to describe an apple but Jesus is about to describe an orange. He will not answer them according to their expectations of the Messiah (which their questions were in regard of). Even the comments Jesus makes in verse 4 and 5 reflect this which I will get into in the next post.

Old man
May 20th 2014, 05:23 AM
Matt. 24:4-5


Matt. 24:4 “And Jesus answered and said to them, ‘See to it that no one misleads you.’”

The disciples are already starting out in asking their questions from a wrong view or perception of the Messiah’s purpose. They thought the Messiah was going to deliver them from the Romans and usher in the new age where Israel reigns over the nations. Jesus’ answers and comment to their questions then perhaps ought to be viewed as a correction to their misunderstanding. Jesus Himself starts it off with the admonition of “See to it that no one misleads you.” This admonition comes because they have already been misled (their current understanding or expectation of the Messiah) and the chances were great that when someone comes claiming to be the Messiah and proclaiming freedom from the Romans that they could be misled because that was already their understanding of what the Messiah was supposed to do. I believe that this is exactly the scenario that Jesus is referring to and mentions in the next verse.


Matt 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.”

I think that this scenario was very realistic. What should also be noticed is that Jesus’ concern is for them (His disciples) not to be misled (more on this later). Could those early Jewish Christians who had expected the Messiah to come and deliver Israel from the Romans have been easily convinced when someone claiming to be the Messiah with the purpose or intent of driving out the Romans was the real Christ and be misled.

And historically this did happen a number of times where one claiming or was proclaimed to be the Messiah had as a purpose to defeat the Romans. They all fail to fulfill that expectation but they did succeed in misleading thousands of people. Of course I don’t know how many if any were Christians but the threat seemed real enough for Jesus to start His explanation off with, “See to it that no one misleads you.”

But since these warnings about false Christ’s have already been fulfilled how can this passage be applicable to our time and should it be?

Old man
May 30th 2014, 11:21 PM
Matt. 24:4-14 (a)

This next section (covering verses 4-14) covers a period of time between Christ's ascension and the end which is mentioned in verse 14. If this section covers from ascension until the end what can be seen about this time period within this section of scripture? I am assuming at this point that the end will also include Jesus’ return.

The number of verses (a total of 11 - counting verse 4) limits the amount of detail He can give concerning this period of time. To complicate matters even more this 11 verse section seems to be also divided into two subsection both of which cover the same period of time as well. The first of the two subsections covers verses 4-8 and the second section covers verses 9-14. This is all He says about the time period in the first section:


Matt. 24:4-8 “Jesus answered and said to them, ‘See to it that no one misleads you. (5) For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. (6) You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. (7) For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. (8) But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.”

Matt. 24:4-5 “And Jesus answered and said to them, ‘See to it that no one misleads you.’ (5) For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.”
I realize I covered verse 4 and 5 already but I need to revisit these two verses again and perhaps reevaluate my conclusions due to other considerations that I thought of as I was looking into verses 6-14.

This is what I said in my last post.


I think that this scenario was very realistic. What should also be noticed is that Jesus’ concern is for them (His disciples) not to be misled (more on this later). Those early Jewish Christians who had expected the Messiah to come and deliver Israel from the Romans might have been easily convinced when someone claiming to be the Messiah with the purpose or intent of driving out the Romans was the real Christ and be misled.

And historically this did happen a number of times where one claiming or was proclaimed to be the Messiah had as a purpose to defeat the Romans. They all fail to fulfill that expectation but they did succeed in misleading thousands of people. Of course I don’t know how many if any were Christians but the threat seemed real enough for Jesus to start His explanation off with, “See to it, that no one misleads you.”

The question that came to my mind was this. Was Jesus specifically speaking to these guys about the possibility that “they” would be deceived or led astray? I have a hard time seeing that they would be deceived by someone coming claiming to be the Christ? These twelve men have been with the Christ for around three years and they were about to spend 40 days with Him as the resurrected Christ. There were others as well who witnessed the Christ being alive from the dead (at one point over 500 at one time) as well as certain individuals to whom Jesus appeared to such as Paul and James. So these guys should be able to tell the truth about someone who walks up to them and says “Hey guys, guess what I’m the Messiah, the Christ.” The disciples being deceived by someone claiming to be the Christ after knowing intimately the real one; I suppose, is remotely possible but I think highly improbable.

So that brings up the question as to who would be deceived and who is He referring to when He says “you”? Is it possibly geared more toward those believers who will believe in Jesus through the testimony of these early disciples but still have an erroneous expectation of the Messiah? But wouldn’t they also get this same message from these twelve about those coming claiming to be Christ? As long as any of these first disciples who saw and spent time with Jesus were still around verification would have been available in order to bring correction about anyone claiming to be Christ.

So this warning “See to it that no one misleads you” seems to be more generic geared to the entire population of believers throughout the time frame being discussed (from His ascension to His return) rather than specifically to these twelve or those who witnessed His resurrection. Or it may be instructions to them to pass on this information to other believers. The “see to it” could be a command putting the responsibility to them to spread this information to all who would come after them so that believer would not be deceived. This teaching would have been passed on by them to the next generation of believers and would probably be even more pertinent to those believers who were around after all the original witnesses to Christ had departed; so this warning seems to fit better for third generation believers and beyond. But I think there is even more about this which I hope to explain in a later post.


Matt. 24:6-8 “You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. (7) For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. (8) But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.”

It seems that Jesus is simply giving an overview of the conditions the world will experience during this period of time between His ascension and His return and each of these different conditions could represent a multiple of other events. Wars (plural) rumors of wars (plural) famines (plural) earthquakes (plural) various places (plural). Although He actually only mentions earthquakes; the earthquakes could also be representative of anything of a natural disaster nature like floods, tornados, hurricanes, etc. The famines could represent anything of an ecological nature like famine, plague, pandemic, droughts, etc. The hearing of wars could represent wars that their nation was involved in and rumors of wars would be those that involve nations not their own. What he is mentioning is that there will be social disasters, environmental or ecological disasters and physical natural disasters being experienced by those who dwell on the earth.

Regardless of how many events take place; these are mentioned by Christ to be things that are not signs of the end or His return (verse 8 “But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.”) They are also things that everyone will experience (i.e. the various places mentioned in verse 7) believers and unbelievers alike. The beginning of birth pains, there is more coming, supports the idea that the previous verses are generic concerning the events. More disasters are coming and the ones mentioned are only a sampling of what those who dwell on earth can expect.

Old man
Jun 17th 2014, 07:39 PM
Matt. 24:4-14 (b)



Matt. 24:8-10 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. (9) Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. (10) At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.”

Although certainly the beginning or start of things and therefore not an indication of the “end”, these types of events (wars, earthquakes and famines) have been happening from that time and continue even today. Even though they are the beginning the scriptures in no way indicate that they after having started things off will discontinue in favor of other “tribulation” events. It is also perhaps applicable to view them as foundational tribulation events viewed perhaps like a pyramid with these events being the bottom layer. In any case these are the beginning with more to come in addition to these. These beginning events are things that the entire world will experience both unbelievers and believers alike.

In addition to those things mentioned as the beginning Jesus transitions from the world event to which everyone will experience, to what will be experience by those in the church (i.e. the body of Christ). What is interesting about them delivering those of the church to tribulation is that although it could be referring to “persecution”, Jesus also mentions that as well when He says they will kill you and you will be hated by all nations. Because Jesus mentions tribulation in addition to the other persecutions he is not indicating persecution by the use of this word. Delivering someone to tribulation would be the same as letting someone suffer through perhaps the previously mentioned events (as well as others similar to them) even though you know of or you witness the suffering but you also have the capacity to alleviate the suffering yet do nothing.

This is very similar to what those of the ancient trade guilds did to Christians when they refuse to allow believers into certain trades or businesses because the believers worshipped Christ and not the trade guild gods. They essentially surrendered believers over to poverty and misery (tribulation). Even today the world often ignores the plight of Christians who are suffering unjustly or are deliberately targeted for persecution. While there are nations which participate in the persecution; others that simply watch and allow it to happen, are in fact, delivering the Christians to tribulation. It is possible that it will increase until believers will not even get relief during the natural disasters mentioned earlier. It is simply abandonment by those in the world who have the ability to help but refuse to.

Because of the persecution and tribulation the believers will suffer many will fall away which is reminiscent of the parable of the “Sower” which Jesus taught (Matt 13:20-22). This parable makes mention of those who fall away because of the worries of life and or persecution. This cannot be referring to unbelievers because they have nothing to fall away from. But the level to which they will fall is to one where they will also turn around and betray each other.


Matt. 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.”
Even though earlier Jesus spoke of those who would come claiming to be Christ yet misleading many, here Jesus mentions false prophets who mislead many as well. It is possible that when Jesus referred to those claiming to be Christ in verse 5 He was referring to those who will deceive those in the world and not necessarily those in the church. With false prophets it is a different matter. I don’t see believers being deceived by someone claiming to be Christ but I do see them being deceived by those claiming to be prophets. Do not misunderstand me; I do believe there are real prophets yet the existence of genuine prophets makes it easier for those false ones to have an impact or gain influence. If there are real ones then the false ones gain an almost automatic credibility as one having the “status, title or reputation” of a prophet until someone rises up to test them. But if all the false prophets say are “good” things or just about “blessing” why would people test what they want and like to hear?


Matt. 24:12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.”

The end result of lawlessness is separation from God. Sin hardens the heart and separates us from God's fellowship. However in this case this lawlessness is what is happening in the church. As lawlessness increases our love for Christ and each other grows cold. As our love for Christ and each other grows cold lawlessness increases. The worst thing is that we are the ones responsible for this condition in the church. Lawlessness always increases when it is allowed to. We allow lawlessness to increase in the church by downplaying it and the need of repentance. The church does not preach repentance in fear of offending someone. When the need of repentance is ignored or downplayed, lawlessness is allowed to go unchecked resulting in our love for Christ and each other to grow cold.

So here is an overview of this portion of scripture: (verses 5-12)


1. Although not specific time frame; it is assumed that this section covers the period of time between that moment (verse 3) and the end (verse 14)
2. The first section (verses 5-8) deals with events in the world on a global scale;
--- a. These will affect everyone believers and unbelievers alike.
--- b. The deal with the appearance of those claiming to be Christ.
-------- i. Those in the world are more likely to be misled by false Christ’s than believers would be.
-------- ii. Those claiming to be Christ may be representative of all who would claim authority as being “the way the truth and the life” whether they actually called themselves “Christ” or not.
-------- iii. Could include all Christian like cults that arise during this time period under discussion.
--- c. Deals with wars and natural catastrophes with earthquakes and famines being representative and not specifically the only events occurring.
--- d. These things are only the beginning of trouble and everything mentioned after these are in addition to these.
3. The second section (verse 9-14) covers specifically what will go on in respect to the church (i.e. the body of Christ).
--- a. The nations will cause a great deal of trouble for those in the Christ. This is all coming upon the church from the outside.
-------- i. They will deliver us to tribulation by allowing believers to suffer without offering help or deliverance even when it is within their power to do so.
-------- ii. They will kill believers.
-------- iii. Believers will be hated by all nations.
--- b.Because of the things the nations will do (previously mentioned) many will fall away due in part because of false teachings such as “all we have to do is give your life to Jesus and everything will be OK”. Other false doctrines such as the prosperity doctrines weaken faith as it pertains to standing firm in light of the afore mentioned persecutions and hatred by all nations. When such persecution, hatred and hardships come the idea of being betrayed by Christ and “His promise” to make everything right easily becomes a reality.
-------- i. Those who fall away will betray those around them including faithful believers.
-------- ii. They will grow in their hatred for others contrary to someone who has the love of Christ residing in them.
--- c. False prophets will come:
-------- i. Claiming to bring further spiritual enlightenment.
-------- ii. Promises of God’s blessings instead of warnings about the tribulations and persecutions which Christ warned us about.
-------- iii. They will lead many into a false sense of spirituality and security.
--- d. The church will allow lawlessness to develop unchallenged in the church lead to the love of many growing cold which in turn causes lawlessness to increase even more.


I will wrap this section up in my next post then move on ……… to verse 15 ….. and beyond!!!!

Old man
Jul 23rd 2014, 04:52 AM
Matt. 24:4-14 (c)


Mat 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
There are a lot of things here to endure. Right from the beginning with the earthquakes, famines and wars which all those living on the earth will face. Then there are those things which the world will do to those who follow and claim Christ as King; such as deliver us to tribulation, kill us and hate us because of the name of Christ our King. Besides the earthly conditions and the hatred from unbelievers there is also the lawlessness in the church that must be endured, the betrayal of former brothers and sisters and false prophets all coming from within the church that one must endure as well in order to be saved. The endurance must be until the end which may be either one’s life or ………….. “The End”.

IT is the one who endures to the end who will be saved not those who give up because of tribulation or persecution. This fact was already mentioned by the Lord to His disciples when He explained the parable of the sower to them. The fact that there are or will be many who fall away from the truth at this time because of the tribulations, killing and hatred of all the nations because of the name of Christ reveals that even though they may have been taught and assured that their salvation was a sure thing their unwillingness to endure to the end will prove otherwise.

When Jesus said “See to it that no one mislead you” it is possible that He was referring to the entire section from verse 5 to verse 14 as possible areas of being misled. Being taught that we will not experience the things Christ mentions here can and will cause considerable damage to those in the faith when these things begin to happen. But hearing all this about persecution is not new to the disciples because Jesus has warned them on numerous occasions that it was going to come. This portion of the Olivet Discourse is nothing new to the disciples. Jesus reiterates all of His teachings on this subject of how those who follow Him will suffer with the exception of the news that many will fall away and be corrupted to live lawlessly etc. So far up to this point Jesus has been showing and teaching the disciples that those who will persecute them will be those on the outside …. unbelievers. Jesus now begins to tell them that during the time period He is speaking of at this moment; that at those who persecute them will also include those who were part of their congregations. Those who at one time were part of their congregational family will become (because of they fall away because of the hardships are to come), their enemies and will betray those who continue to endure.


Mat 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
This verse is very intriguing to me. I have been told in the past that this gospel is referring to the message of salvation through Christ. There is also a possible association between the gospel mentioned here and the one mentioned in the Book of Revelation where the angel flies through the air preaching to the whole world. Rev 14:6-7 “And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; (7) and he said with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters." However if at that time most people have received the “mark” (whatever form that may be) they have already sealed their eternal fate and the gospel of salvation would be preached to people unable to gain any benefit from it.

Although not normally noticed this is actually the second mention of a gospel in this passage of scripture. The first was mentioned back in verse 9. Although it does not say what the gospel was that was preached we do know that it was heard in all the nations because the disciples would be hated by all the nations. We also know that the message or gospel was concerning Christ because all the nations will kill and hate them because of the name of Christ. Why would the nations hate the disciples because of the name of Christ if His gospel was not being preached to them?

Jesus here says “this” gospel without saying specifically what the message being spoken is; leading me to wonder if it is within the message He just finished speaking; it may be either all of the previous passage or specifically the last verse that those who endure to the end will be saved. Since those who endure the horrible conditions and persecution will be saved while those who do not will be excluded from the kingdom. It is a message of hope and reassurance for those who will live and endure through such desperate times and preached in all the nations (not to all the nations) that all those who endure living in all the nations will receive the encouragement and hope this message (gospel) brings, that their endurance is not and will not be in vain.

Old man
Jul 25th 2014, 03:29 AM
Matt. 24:4-14 (d)

I realize that the last few posts probably seemed kind of scattered and incoherent so I decided to try to tie this section down with a general overview of what I believe is going on here.


Matt. 24:3-14 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" (4) And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. (5) For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. (6) You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. (7) For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. (8) But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. (9) Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. (10) At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. (11) Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. (12) Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. (13) But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. (14) This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.



The disciple’s questions were not necessarily from a standpoint which showed they had a clear understanding of the purpose and role of the Messiah at that time. They believed that He was going to set up God’s earthly kingdom at that time and reign from the throne of David, kick the Romans out and elevate Israel to the lead nations over all others. Their questions including the one about His coming should be seen in this light and not as questions regarding the end times nor His second coming which they had no clue was going to happen.
Jesus begins to describe (in a very brief discourse) what they as disciples should (not could) expect as followers of His. He sets the time period which all these things were to happen starting from their days through to the end. But He does not give a time in which they should expect “the end” to take place.
First He mentions the arrival of those who claim to have “the anointing” not just an anointing. They will claim to be the way whether they mention the way to God or the way to another deity (fake of course). They don’t have to be preaching falsely about God to claim to be somebody anointed. They would just have to convince people that their version of truth is the correct one (Taoism, Buddhism, New Age, Islam, Hinduism etc.) Though very effective against those who are already following false gods; the effectiveness against followers of Christ I believe would have been minimal. Not so much today though; recent studies reveal a greater tolerance and growing belief among those who claim to be Christians (even “born again” ones) to the falsehood that salvation can be found through non-Christian religions (those not Christ based).
Next he mentions those tribulations which will be experienced by all who dwell on the earth. These are natural disasters which He refers to in the plural (i.e. kingdom against kingdom, nation against nation, famines and earthquakes in various places) which means that He is referring to possibly a long period of time during which these events would be happening and not limited to that generation. All who dwell on the earth will experience these things both believers and unbelievers.
Jesus next mentions that they (referring to the people of the world) will direct their hatred towards those who follow Christ (the real one). This is where Christ really begins to zero in on His main concern and focus of this discourse. That main concern is for those who follow Him and how they will and should respond to those events which will take place between the time He is speaking and the END. From this point on all the things He mentions (verses 9-12) are regarding the church.
The progression is interesting in that as He moves from one specific thing to the next it seem to get progressively worse. He goes from mentioning what those of the world will do to followers to those who fall away because of what those of the world do to what those who fall way will do then to the deception which will take place from within the church (i.e. false prophets) to the eventual underlying spiritual apathy and carnality which results from the deception and the rejection of the a life of holiness (lawlessness will increase)
But He ends this discourse with the good news (gospel) that those who endure through all of this will to the end be saved. Their striving to continue to live holy lives reflective of the king and master will not be in vain. This gospel of the kingdom in my opinion is referring to the promise of salvation for those who endure through all of the above and will be preached in all the nations bringing the encouragement needed for those all over the world who are looking for deliverance. John 16:33 "These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."



I believe (from this section anyway) That Jesus is more concerned about the effect the events that take place (from the moment He leaves them until He returns) will have upon the church He will build through these disciples. He is not as interested in the details about those events but about instructing the church what to do when those events do actually take place.

Old man
Sep 21st 2014, 07:03 PM
Matt. 24:15a – the A of D part 1

Matt 24:15 "Therefore … when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place … (let the reader understand),”

This is an important and obviously controversial verse in the eschol …, eschtal ….. estalog….. end times discussion which I am going to have to address in 2 or 3 separate posts. In this first one I want to cover some of the peripheral stuff that I noticed in my personal study of it before I cover what I believe concerning the A of D (based on my current study of the topic) in the next couple of posts. I have bolded and underlined the parts I want to cover in this post.

The all important and linking word “therefore” is the first word here linking this part of Jesus’ instruction to what He said before. The discussion of the A of D is built upon what Jesus said previously in verses 3-14 and in my opinion specifically refers to verse 13 where He says, "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.” The reason this is significant is because Jesus’ discussion is more about what He says their response should be when they see the A of D more that the actual details of the A of D’s arrival. Jesus is giving them directions (verses 16 and on) about how to endure when the A of D shows up. In other words (to paraphrase) what I believe He is saying is …. Because it is those who endure to the end that will be saved therefore in order to endure when you see the A of D flee to the mountains etc. This is similar to His instruction about when they enter a city to preach and they are persecuted for His name they are to flee to the next (Matt. 10:23). He is telling them how to survive and endure to the 1335th day, as spoken through Daniel the prophet (Dan 12:12).

“…when you see…” Here is that troubling word “you” again and the question I think still remains about who exactly Jesus is referring to by His use of “you” in this passage. Just as in the first section where He uses the word “you” in regard to those who may be led astray by those claiming falsely to be Christ I do not believe He was referring to those sitting with Him there on that mountain. The disciples sitting with Him on the mountain would hardly have been deceived by someone else claiming to be the Christ after spending so much time with the real one. He was not specifically referring to them here in this case either.

Although he says “you” here none of those sitting there would be around to “see” the A of D standing in the holy place if the Roman armies defiling and destroying the temple in 70 AD (Perhaps more on this later) was what Jesus was referring to (except maybe John). Since none of those sitting there would see it then Jesus’ use of “you” must be referring to those who would believe in Him because of their word. But that still does not contextually demand a reference to that next generation right after these guys. It could be any generation down the line from these guys. All that it signifies is the when aspect … When you (whatever generation that is around) see then those in Judea (during whatever generation it happens) must flee. The only time frames and generations which this could apply to are those generations of believers which lived up to 70 AD (the destruction of the temple) and those which will see the new temple built now that Jerusalem has been “resurrected”. The “you” generation is that generation which sees the A of D being set up. In regards to what generation is being indicated all we have to go on here is that it is the generation that actually sees the A of D we do not have a time period indicated. Some may say that a future temple is out of the question but in reality it cannot be ruled out in light of the many scriptures that describe a temple that hasn’t been built yet and is different than any of those which had been built (judging by the description given in scripture.)

“… standing in the holy place …”
There are a couple of different ideas or theories of what Jesus was referring to as “the holy place”. Some believe that He was referring to just the temple and others think He was referring to all of Jerusalem. There are several scriptural references to Jerusalem as being the “holy city” but I have yet to find any scripture calling Jerusalem as the “holy place”. There are however many references stating clearly, actually referring to the temple the “holy place”.


Acts 6:13 “They put forward false witnesses who said, "This man incessantly speaks against this holy place and the Law;”
This is in reference to Jesus’ comment about destroying the temple and raising it up in three days. Although Jesus was referring to His physical body the Jews thought He was referring to the temple and not Jerusalem.


Acts 21:28 “crying out, "Men of Israel, come to our aid! This is the man who preaches to all men everywhere against our people and the Law and this place; and besides he has even brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.[/U]"
Since Gentiles were allowed in Jerusalem and they are never said to defile Jerusalem by being there the only option as to what “holy place” is being defiled would be the temple. Being gentiles they would not have been allowed into the temple because they are ritually unclean and not abiding by the laws governing such things.


Heb. 9:2 “For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place.”
Heb. 9:12 “and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.”
Heb. 9:25 “nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.”
These “holy place” references are clearly a description of a specific location within the physical temple (and one made without hands) and can not in any way be confused with Jerusalem.

There is just not enough evidence or context here for me to conclude that Jesus had Jerusalem in mind as being the “holy place”. The context of this discussion after Jesus’ confrontations with the Pharisees and Sadducees in the temple and his comment to His disciples about not one stone of the temple being left one on top of the other does not lead me to believe that Jerusalem as a whole was being considered by Him to be the “holy place” in this passage. I believe that He was referring specifically to the temple as the holy place.

Because Jesus was specifically referring to the physical temple and that the A of D would be “seen” by them standing in the “holy place” the A of D must be in turn a physical thing. But whether the A of D is a person, statue, ceremony or other form of image this passage doesn’t indicate. Because Jesus refers to the A of D spoken of through (not by) Daniel to be the one they should watching for to fulfill this passage we have to go to Daniel to hopefully get an idea of who or what Jesus is referring to as the A of D.

“… (let the reader understand),”
This I believe is a call from the writer of the gospel (through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) to the readers to make clear their understanding of what was spoken of through the prophet Daniel in order to recognize the real event this passage is referring to. Instead of comparing this with what is recorded in Luke (which at the time of the writing of this gospel probably several years away) we should be looking to Daniel because the A of D Jesus is speaking of is the one God spoke of through Daniel. However the account in Luke will still need to be reconciled with this one here. I will get to that in a couple of posts (I hope). In my next post I will look into the references to the A of D mentioned in the Book of Daniel.

But I want to reiterate what I really think is the main focus is. And that is Jesus’ discussion is more about what He says their response should be when they see the A of D than the actual details of the A of D’s arrival. He is instructing them on how to endure to the end to be saved (verse 13).