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Protective Angel
Jul 15th 2014, 08:46 PM
Theology really sounds interesting to study BUT.

Do we really need it to believe the Bible?




Luke 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

To have our minds as free and innocent as a little child. (unwise)




1 Corin 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.



Our teacher shall speak.

1 Corin 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



For what is in this book and can it be changed?

Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.



Important words.

Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.



Some say the next scripture only applies to that book. Thoughts?

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Boo
Jul 16th 2014, 09:48 AM
Each person chooses what he or she believes.

For some, they need only a trusted teacher.

For others, they need a proven example before they will accept something as true.

For still others, they need to evaluate the written words compared to history and apologetics before they will accept validity.

However, it does not matter how one comes to believe. It matters that they believe.

Theology - depending on what way you think it is used - is one method and can refer to different ways of reaching a conclusion. For me, it took apologetics to tell me that I can trust what the Bible said. Then, it took time and the Bible to convince me of what I needed to know.

For others, it was much easier. The issue is whether or not we are now His.

Aviyah
Jul 16th 2014, 02:16 PM
No, the Bible is sufficient.

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17)

Philosophical arguments are unnecessary - what God says, goes. If people have disagreements on something, they should be referring to Scripture rather than theologians.

Boo
Jul 17th 2014, 09:51 AM
No, the Bible is sufficient.

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17)

Philosophical arguments are unnecessary - what God says, goes. If people have disagreements on something, they should be referring to Scripture rather than theologians.

Depending on how we apply the bible, that is true.

If we apply the Bible, depending on whether or not we actually understand it, we can learn how we are to follow Jesus. However, millions of people over the centuries have lived in the way that they thought the Bible taught them - and committed terrible crimes in the process.

Without sitting in community and sharing Christ with each other, we lose much of what Jesus wants us to do. The Bible is a book - a book put together a few hundred years after Jesus went to be with His Father. It has been changed, organized, reorganized, and interpreted in several ways.

The bible alone is not enough. We need each other as well. When we get together, we discuss and share. What do we call this process of discussing and sharing? That is where theology started.

We actually need another trinity, so to speak: we need the Bible, our brothers and sisters, and the Holy Spirit. When these come together, we have.... theology.

Protective Angel
Jul 17th 2014, 04:53 PM
Depending on how we apply the bible, that is true.

If we apply the Bible, depending on whether or not we actually understand it, we can learn how we are to follow Jesus. However, millions of people over the centuries have lived in the way that they thought the Bible taught them - and committed terrible crimes in the process.

Without sitting in community and sharing Christ with each other, we lose much of what Jesus wants us to do. The Bible is a book - a book put together a few hundred years after Jesus went to be with His Father. It has been changed, organized, reorganized, and interpreted in several ways.

The bible alone is not enough. We need each other as well. When we get together, we discuss and share. What do we call this process of discussing and sharing? That is where theology started.

We actually need another trinity, so to speak: we need the Bible, our brothers and sisters, and the Holy Spirit. When these come together, we have.... theology.

Your words sound like "Bible study".



Now as I said before, theology sounds very interesting to study. I'll make that clear.



By scripture itself, would a person have to be full of the Holy Spirit to be qualified to teach theology? Scripture reference below

1 Corin 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Thoughts? :hug:

breadfirst
Jul 17th 2014, 07:29 PM
Couple of thoughts brothers and sisters:

1)Being in India I have seen a number of believers whose only book is the Bible without commentaries or cross references or concordance or even an index or dictionary. Yet they serve the Lord with pure devotion and learn their scriptures by reading, meditating, hearing, and having fellowship with other believers. They then evangelize this to some of the most remote parts of the country and bear much fruit.

2)I am currently enrolled in a distance education affiliated with a well known seminary learning theology, Christian history, major religions, and other topics. What amazes me is that not all instructors with doctorate level degrees in their theological field of study are necessarily saved. This goes for some students as well. Both treat it as part of their career either earning a living or looking for a career progression. I am not being judgmental but it was my observation during some classes I recently attended.

3)Bible Study in my opinion is more a fellowship but given a formal name especially in a small setting. The purpose is to learn about the Bible and ensure the broad understanding of the scripture is consistent with the way the author (Holy Spirit) intended it to be. At least this is what I experienced when I attended small bible study sessions when I was in the US.

Last I read this morning in Galatians 1:12 Jesus revealed the truths to Paul and not man. We have countless other verses that demonstrate that only the Holy Spirit can reveal the truths. The Lord also said the Kingdom of God is a mystery and Jesus has to explain it to the disciples (Mark 4:10-11). Yet another example of Peter confessing Jesus is the Messiah because it was revealed unto him in Mathew 16:17.

In a nutshell what am I saying:
a)You only need the Bible, Holy Spirit, and someone more mature than you to be able to understand the spiritual truths of the Bible.
b)In the developed nations it is unfortunate that Christians need so much additional resources to accept Christ and His teachings, whereas in the poorer parts of the world acceptance of Jesus requires just the plain old preaching.
c)Theology can be taught just like any other academic subject and does NOT require the teacher to experience salvation.

Boo
Jul 18th 2014, 09:18 AM
If we think "theology" requires a large building and people with PhD's, then we can do without them.

However, "theology" really means the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

Small groups, fellowship, spending time with another devoted Christian are all the practice of theology. It is only man who has formalized it and required diplomas.

Those who are technical (also called "nitpickers") love to have additional resources. Some of them is for their own understanding while others are for their ability to show off their skills to others. The fact remains that man has perverted the meaning of verses of the Bible over the years. They got away with it because of the ignorance and gullibility of the listeners. IN many ways, that has come to an end. In some ways, it will always happen because of our desire to be entertained and emotionally swooned.

Now, we don't need to be gullible. We don't need to be ignorant. However, removing gullibility and ignorance won't make us better Christians. It only makes us smarter ones. The transformation come from moving closer to God, not to man and to expensive educations.

Protective Angel
Jul 18th 2014, 05:48 PM
If we think "theology" requires a large building and people with PhD's, then we can do without them.

However, "theology" really means the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

Small groups, fellowship, spending time with another devoted Christian are all the practice of theology. It is only man who has formalized it and required diplomas.

Those who are technical (also called "nitpickers") love to have additional resources. Some of them is for their own understanding while others are for their ability to show off their skills to others. The fact remains that man has perverted the meaning of verses of the Bible over the years. They got away with it because of the ignorance and gullibility of the listeners. IN many ways, that has come to an end. In some ways, it will always happen because of our desire to be entertained and emotionally swooned.

Now, we don't need to be gullible. We don't need to be ignorant. However, removing gullibility and ignorance won't make us better Christians. It only makes us smarter ones. The transformation come from moving closer to God, not to man and to expensive educations.

:)
I agree. We need to study the right things.

We tend to trust our Bibles that are flawed, do to mistranslation??? :hmm:

Culsey
Jul 18th 2014, 06:18 PM
Theology really sounds interesting to study BUT.

Do we really need it to believe the Bible?




Luke 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

To have our minds as free and innocent as a little child. (unwise)




1 Corin 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.



Our teacher shall speak.

1 Corin 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



For what is in this book and can it be changed?

Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.



Important words.

Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.



Some say the next scripture only applies to that book. Thoughts?

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Brother Angel, you have it backwards. One needs the Bible to have proper theology. The only theology that is right and just comes from God's Holy Word and only from God Himself.

Boo
Jul 19th 2014, 10:52 AM
:)
I agree. We need to study the right things.

We tend to trust our Bibles that are flawed, do to mistranslation??? :hmm:

While man has mistranslated some of the source documents, and since there is evidence that some source documents have been altered, we need to search all of scriptures to determine truth. How many times have we all heard the phrase "scripture interprets scripture?" There is actually a reason for that.

There are some Bibles that I cannot read. They either are too difficult to understand and require the addition of a couple more books to use for references or the language is "too hip" or "too jive" for me and the understanding is dumbed down.

Those same Bible do find their way into hands of people who can discern the message from them, but not I.

I use basically four different translations when I teach, but I don't teach people with degrees in historic literature. I do sometimes people who have reading skills equivalent to third grade kids.

The learning happens during discussions within the group. It takes questions and answers to explore the ideas conveyed in the Bible translations.

That actually fits the definition of theology.

IN the end, when one of those attending the studies ends up with his "Aha!" moment, it because his understanding and he knows why he now believes a certain thing. He or she stops being a parrot who repeats the words of the teacher and becomes one who believes based on understanding what the Bible actually said. That is the mission of our Bible studies. That is the mission of theology.

Protective Angel
Jul 19th 2014, 09:35 PM
Brother Angel, you have it backwards. One needs the Bible to have proper theology. The only theology that is right and just comes from God's Holy Word and only from God Himself.

I'm saying that the Bible should be the first belief. Theology can follow as second hand.

The Bible is Gods inspired word. Theology is Gods word examined by sometimes not God inspired people.

Protective Angel
Jul 19th 2014, 09:40 PM
While man has mistranslated some of the source documents, and since there is evidence that some source documents have been altered, we need to search all of scriptures to determine truth. How many times have we all heard the phrase "scripture interprets scripture?" There is actually a reason for that.

There are some Bibles that I cannot read. They either are too difficult to understand and require the addition of a couple more books to use for references or the language is "too hip" or "too jive" for me and the understanding is dumbed down.

Those same Bible do find their way into hands of people who can discern the message from them, but not I.

I use basically four different translations when I teach, but I don't teach people with degrees in historic literature. I do sometimes people who have reading skills equivalent to third grade kids.

The learning happens during discussions within the group. It takes questions and answers to explore the ideas conveyed in the Bible translations.

That actually fits the definition of theology.

IN the end, when one of those attending the studies ends up with his "Aha!" moment, it because his understanding and he knows why he now believes a certain thing. He or she stops being a parrot who repeats the words of the teacher and becomes one who believes based on understanding what the Bible actually said. That is the mission of our Bible studies. That is the mission of theology.

Yes my friend, that makes sense. :)

I'm not saying theology is bad. I'm saying Bible belief comes first. I think theology would be interesting to study.

IMINXTC
Jul 19th 2014, 10:13 PM
If the Bible is God's revelation to man, which it is, then theology is valid only when kept within it's parameters and subject to it's authority. Outside of that revelation, theology, much like philosophy, is an application of systematic human reasoning, which attempts to interpret that which cannot not be seen or sensed by human faculties, following rules invented by men.

("I think therefore I am [I think"].

The blind leading the blind.

Theology did not reveal the truthfulness of God's word to me; it was more a matter of conscience, or even more succinctly, spiritual conviction, sparked to life through faith.

Believers are every bit as blind as unbelievers when it comes to deciphering the mysteries of existence or the existence of the Creator when they look for answers outside of what has been revealed.

Theology, like philosopy, can be a walk on the slippery rocks, and yet it increasingly appears to be the dominant means of Christian discourse today.

In light of that truth, I love to hear what God Himself says on any particular topic - scripture and verse, please -
and tend to hold most theological explanations of what someone thinks He meant, in suspicion.

Boo
Jul 20th 2014, 12:34 AM
It is tough to understand the need for "theology" when we believe it comes only from Ivory towers and pedigreed men who have been chosen by their denomination as "the learned ones."

They can be just as wrong as everyone else.

If, of course, we realize that theological study can happen around our dinner table and in small groups, we may start to truly understand the importance of our small groups and our prayerful discussions.

For those who think a certificate proves our spiritual excellence and knowledge of "the truth," consider how many people with those certificates quit the church and go our into the world every month.

Nick
Jul 20th 2014, 08:38 PM
Theology certain helps but can also be a hindrance depending on how closed minded one becomes to other points of view. I've experienced both sides of that coin.

Boo
Jul 21st 2014, 08:37 AM
Theology certain helps but can also be a hindrance depending on how closed minded one becomes to other points of view. I've experienced both sides of that coin.

What is "closed minded?" Is that not a form of pride where we refuse to accept the idea that we may have believed an erroneous idea for a very long time?

When we fail to lead a family member to Christ because they are "closed minded," what do we accuse them of? When we are the ones who are similarly closed minded, do we assign the same fault to ourselves?

Culsey
Jul 21st 2014, 03:35 PM
I'm saying that the Bible should be the first belief. Theology can follow as second hand.

The Bible is Gods inspired word. Theology is Gods word examined by sometimes not God inspired people.

I agree with you. It really bothers me when a person throws in something that he thinks ought to be in the Bible and then labels that "theology." Or decides to interpret the Bible in a creative way and calls it theology. God's word is genuine. Theology may or may not be.

RollTide21
Jul 21st 2014, 05:18 PM
It is tough to understand the need for "theology" when we believe it comes only from Ivory towers and pedigreed men who have been chosen by their denomination as "the learned ones."

They can be just as wrong as everyone else.

If, of course, we realize that theological study can happen around our dinner table and in small groups, we may start to truly understand the importance of our small groups and our prayerful discussions.

For those who think a certificate proves our spiritual excellence and knowledge of "the truth," consider how many people with those certificates quit the church and go our into the world every month.Absolutely. As to your last statement, I would also add the question: Does God look more favorably on the learned theologian than He does the poor and uneducated who simply ask God to help them live each day in the Spirit? Really, what else does God want of us but to humble ourselves before Him and seek to hold His hand every day. Scriptural proficiency isn't required to exhibit the Fruit of the Spirit.

I think the small group approach you mention fits with this perfectly. In this small, candid discussions, we can simplify and more importantly, APPLY Scripture to experience.

episkopos
Jul 21st 2014, 06:00 PM
We need theology to believe in the bible...but we need faith to believe God. The first is an empty religious exercise based on human reasoning....and the other brings us into fellowship with God. That is why the first option is so popular! ;)

Boo
Jul 22nd 2014, 08:23 AM
We need theology to believe in the bible...but we need faith to believe God. The first is an empty religious exercise based on human reasoning....and the other brings us into fellowship with God. That is why the first option is so popular! ;)

I do believe that a person can seek fellowship with God, but without the Bible or the Godly teacher, that fellowship can be very distant or it can be all emotion. With the Bible and with the fellowship of believers (which I refer to a small group study (theology)), the seeking can be much more successful and deeper.

Not every small group gets it right. I don't know how some would choose upon what to base the evaluation, but small group theology can run astray just the same as the individual mind.

There is no perfect human design to them. They all require God's help to become what they need to be.

God gave us what we need. It is up to us to use it.

Protective Angel
Jul 22nd 2014, 11:25 PM
I do believe that a person can seek fellowship with God, but without the Bible or the Godly teacher, that fellowship can be very distant or it can be all emotion. With the Bible and with the fellowship of believers (which I refer to a small group study (theology)), the seeking can be much more successful and deeper.

Not every small group gets it right. I don't know how some would choose upon what to base the evaluation, but small group theology can run astray just the same as the individual mind.

There is no perfect human design to them. They all require God's help to become what they need to be.

God gave us what we need. It is up to us to use it.

I really think your theology type is good thing. :) Something we do here on this board.

Bandit
Jul 22nd 2014, 11:54 PM
[QUOTE=Protective Angel;3142214]Theology really sounds interesting to study BUT.
Do we rally need it to believe the Bible?

..QUOTE]

Well, we don't need theology to believe the bible, but if we want to give it our best shot (as far as understanding goes), then, yes, we need to understand the process of interpretation, and what is involved.

Protective Angel
Jul 24th 2014, 03:40 AM
[QUOTE=Protective Angel;3142214]Theology really sounds interesting to study BUT.
Do we rally need it to believe the Bible?

..QUOTE]

Well, we don't need theology to believe the bible, but if we want to give it our best shot (as far as understanding goes), then, yes, we need to understand the process of interpretation, and what is involved.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. :)

Proverbs 3:5-7
Jul 24th 2014, 04:07 AM
Our teacher shall speak.

1 Corin 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.




this passage also coincides with the following Scripture...

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 John 2:27 {KJV}

great thread topic for discussion :idea:

Proverbs 3:5-7
Jul 24th 2014, 04:15 AM
Some say the next scripture only applies to that book. Thoughts?

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.



I've heard people say that too, but I'm not so sure I agree with their assessment... mostly because of how several of the images depicted in Revelations harken back to some of the Old Testament Prophets... this is why I think Christ meant the entirety of Scripture when He said that

Proverbs 3:5-7
Jul 24th 2014, 04:33 AM
While man has mistranslated some of the source documents, and since there is evidence that some source documents have been altered, we need to search all of scriptures to determine truth. How many times have we all heard the phrase "scripture interprets scripture?" There is actually a reason for that.

There are some Bibles that I cannot read. They either are too difficult to understand and require the addition of a couple more books to use for references or the language is "too hip" or "too jive" for me and the understanding is dumbed down.

Those same Bible do find their way into hands of people who can discern the message from them, but not I.


I can relate to what you're saying about how some of the modern versions are too jive or dumbed down



I use basically four different translations when I teach, but I don't teach people with degrees in historic literature. I do sometimes people who have reading skills equivalent to third grade kids.

The learning happens during discussions within the group. It takes questions and answers to explore the ideas conveyed in the Bible translations.

That actually fits the definition of theology.

IN the end, when one of those attending the studies ends up with his "Aha!" moment, it because his understanding and he knows why he now believes a certain thing. He or she stops being a parrot who repeats the words of the teacher and becomes one who believes based on understanding what the Bible actually said. That is the mission of our Bible studies. That is the mission of theology.


this is much more like what a group Bible study should be :amen:

Proverbs 3:5-7
Jul 24th 2014, 04:40 AM
If, of course, we realize that theological study can happen around our dinner table and in small groups, we may start to truly understand the importance of our small groups and our prayerful discussions.



it can happen right here on Religion forums too... when we're sharing & discussing related Scriptures

sandesman
Jul 27th 2014, 03:09 AM
I think that to believe in the bible just have goodness in your heart and faith in God and in people.

paidforinfull
Jul 27th 2014, 03:23 AM
Hosea 4:6 - "My people perish because of a lack of knowledge" How will we know what is from God and what not if we don't read and understand our Bibles?

The Mirriam-Webster dictionary includes the following definition of the word 'theology': the study of God and of God's relation to the world

We should study our Bibles so that we can get to know God and His desires for us. We need the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth and to explain the Scriptures to us, and we need Godly teachers who will disciple and encourage us to walk with God.

I like this quote from C.H. Spurgeon: QUOTE ”The Scripture is our inexhaustible textbook, the Lord Jesus our boundless subject and the Holy Spirit our divine infinite helper“. UNQUOTE

Blessings,
B.

Rockrz
Jul 27th 2014, 04:47 AM
Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

Nah, for the most part theology is nothing more than the wisdom and religious
traditions of men based on the blind mind of mankind assisted by ol slewfoot!

Culsey
Jul 27th 2014, 04:58 AM
Nah, for the most part theology is nothing more than the wisdom and religious
traditions of men based on the blind mind of mankind assisted by ol slewfoot!

True dat. Theology based on anything but the Bible is good for nothing but deceit.

Rockrz
Jul 27th 2014, 05:05 AM
I've heard some that was supposed to be bible based that denied all kinds of biblical truth, so personally if they where a collar are start telling me they "doctor" sow and sow... I pretty much tune them out.

Even the ones that seem to speak of foundational truths are secessionists that claim God doesn't do miracles anymore so I tune them out.

It's probably just me...

Boo
Jul 27th 2014, 09:53 AM
Nah, for the most part theology is nothing more than the wisdom and religious traditions of men based on the blind mind of mankind assisted by ol slewfoot!

Depending of what you think "theology" is, you could be correct is some cases.

There is evidence that some who refer to themselves as "Dr. So-and-so" were granted degrees for their success is learning denominational doctrines rather than their acceptance of what the Bible actually says. Referring to ourselves as "Dr." is a way to getting people to believe that they know the real truth and that those without "Dr." in front of their name are unlearned and therefore untrustworthy.

I suppose that you read the entire thread? Did you read where "theology" is more than the institutional teachings of doctrines and tradition?

Theology happens here in this forum. It happens when we gather with our friends and read chapters of the Bible together.

University courses taught me mostly how it comes to pass that people developed their traditions and their beliefs. It taught me how erroneous doctrines got started. It taught me how both Catholic and Protestant churches committed terrible crimes "in the name of Jesus." It taught me to look to God for answers and to study with fellow believers - even those who are not from the same viewpoint as mine - so that together we might find the same rock to stand on.

That is theology.

Culsey
Jul 27th 2014, 04:29 PM
Depending of what you think "theology" is, you could be correct is some cases.

There is evidence that some who refer to themselves as "Dr. So-and-so" were granted degrees for their success is learning denominational doctrines rather than their acceptance of what the Bible actually says. Referring to ourselves as "Dr." is a way to getting people to believe that they know the real truth and that those without "Dr." in front of their name are unlearned and therefore untrustworthy.

I suppose that you read the entire thread? Did you read where "theology" is more than the institutional teachings of doctrines and tradition?

Theology happens here in this forum. It happens when we gather with our friends and read chapters of the Bible together.

University courses taught me mostly how it comes to pass that people developed their traditions and their beliefs. It taught me how erroneous doctrines got started. It taught me how both Catholic and Protestant churches committed terrible crimes "in the name of Jesus." It taught me to look to God for answers and to study with fellow believers - even those who are not from the same viewpoint as mine - so that together we might find the same rock to stand on.

That is theology.

the·ol·o·gy
THēˈäləjē/Submit
noun
the study of the nature of God and religious belief.
religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed.
plural noun: theologies
"Augustine assimilated Roman ideals into Christian theology"


"Theology" is just simply the study of the nature of God and religious belief. Personally, I don't care for theology. I do care for the study of the word of God, though.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJ21)

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,


Scripture is the key, not theology. Unless you want to be learned in all sorts of unBiblical doctrines, which are dangerous enough to just stay away from.

Boo
Jul 28th 2014, 07:30 AM
the·ol·o·gy
THēˈäləjē/Submit
noun
the study of the nature of God and religious belief.
religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed.
plural noun: theologies
"Augustine assimilated Roman ideals into Christian theology"


"Theology" is just simply the study of the nature of God and religious belief. Personally, I don't care for theology. I do care for the study of the word of God, though.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJ21)

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,


Scripture is the key, not theology. Unless you want to be learned in all sorts of unBiblical doctrines, which are dangerous enough to just stay away from.

Well, if we allow people in ivory towers with their worldly ways to define terms for you - yep, we can think it is a bad thing.

However, if we look at what theology actually is:


Question: "What is the definition of theology?"

Answer: The word “theology” comes from two Greek words that combined mean “the study of God.” Christian theology is simply an attempt to understand God as He is revealed in the Bible. No theology will ever fully explain God and His ways because God is infinitely and eternally higher than we are. Therefore, any attempt to describe Him will fall short (Romans 11:33-36). However, God does want us to know Him insofar as we are able, and theology is the art and science of knowing what we can know and understand about God in an organized and understandable manner. Some people try to avoid theology because they believe it is divisive. Properly understood, though, theology is uniting. Proper, biblical theology is a good thing; it is the teaching of God's Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

The study of theology, then, is nothing more than digging into God’s Word to discover what He has revealed about Himself. When we do this, we come to know Him as Creator of all things, Sustainer of all things, and Judge of all things. He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and end of all things. When Moses asked who was sending him to Pharaoh, God replied “I AM WHO I AM” (Exodus 3:14). The name I AM indicates personality. God has a name, even as He has given names to others. The name I AM stands for a free, purposeful, self-sufficient personality. God is not an ethereal force or a cosmic energy. He is the almighty, self-existing, self-determining Being with a mind and a will—the “personal” God who has revealed Himself to humanity through His Word, and through His Son, Jesus Christ.

To study theology is to get to know God in order that we may glorify Him through our love and obedience. Notice the progression here: we must get to know Him before we can love Him, and we must love Him before we can desire to obey Him. As a byproduct, our lives are immeasurably enriched by the comfort and hope He imparts to those who know, love, and obey Him. Poor theology and a superficial, inaccurate understanding of God will only make our lives worse instead of bringing the comfort and hope we long for. Knowing about God is crucially important. We are cruel to ourselves if we try to live in this world without knowing about God. The world is a painful place, and life in it is disappointing and unpleasant. Reject theology and you doom yourself to life with no sense of direction. Without theology, we waste our lives and lose our souls.

All Christians should be consumed with theology—the intense, personal study of God—in order to know, love, and obey the One with whom we will joyfully spend eternity.

Recommended Resources: The Moody Handbook of Theology by Paul Enns and Logos Bible Software.


Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-theology.html#ixzz38kJRolaV

Rockrz
Jul 28th 2014, 03:41 PM
Theology rarely agrees with scripture and is the source of the majority of secessionist thought since it is man looking at God from man's viewpoint, based on man's experiences relating to this fallen world... instead of from the Mind of Christ as the Bible teaches we should be looking at all things.

Christinme
Jul 28th 2014, 04:09 PM
What/Who we need to believe is Jesus the Christ.

Culsey
Jul 28th 2014, 10:22 PM
Well, if we allow people in ivory towers with their worldly ways to define terms for you - yep, we can think it is a bad thing.

However, if we look at what theology actually is:




Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-theology.html#ixzz38kJRolaV

So if you don't like the Webster's definition you just come up with one you do like?

That is the problem when you go searching for things outside the Bible. You get conflicting views and thoughts and ideas and arguments that go nowhere.

Just chunk theology and go with the Gospel. It worked for Jesus and His apostles. It works for me.

SeekFirstTheKingdom
Jul 29th 2014, 07:57 AM
Do we need theology to believe the Bible? No.

Luke 18:17 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.

Mark 10:15 Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.

Matthew 18:2-4 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

1 Cor 1:18-19 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Like everything else we discuss on this board, there IS a balance.

Matt 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is the beauty of our Lord and His gospel. The simplest minds, and the children can receive it and understand it/believe it.

Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

See, take Jesus' word for it, not some puffed up pharisee who says you need to do this or that or have a PhD in theology to be a son of God.

Boo
Jul 29th 2014, 08:04 AM
So if you don't like the Webster's definition you just come up with one you do like?

That is the problem when you go searching for things outside the Bible. You get conflicting views and thoughts and ideas and arguments that go nowhere.

Just chunk theology and go with the Gospel. It worked for Jesus and His apostles. It works for me.

I see. And the definition given in Webster's dictionary trumps the definitions that come from Godly men who practice their faith and theology because ..........?

It is evident that you have been angered by someone who claims to be a theologian. Therefore, the very word "theology" becomes a four-letter word for you. You seem to wish to deny that it is nothing more than the study of God.

Believe it or not, I am the same way. The big difference is that I do not blame the word "theology." I blame arrogance and pride. I was the same way, too.

People assemble and make all sorts of claims based on the popular opinion of their group. They frequently err, and then pride and arrogance rise up and establish the doctrines of men which are not provable if the whole content of the Bible is used as proof. Yet, people follow them. Denominations are formed, and universities are established to continue to promote those erroneous doctrines.

Some people do it without a group. They do it all by themselves, claiming that they don't need to discuss what God has given us with anyone else.

Both are called "theology."

Both can be incorrect in the results.

If your "Just chunk theology and go with the Gospel. It worked for Jesus and His apostles. It works for me." is true, then you think you've got it all right.

Every start of a new denomination began with those who "just chunked theology" and went with the Gospel while thinking that "it worked for them." Sadly, it was always "their Gospel" (and included the Epistles and Revelation). This world has ended up with hundreds of versions of Pauline Christianity which holds the writings of Paul as more important than the words of Jesus. We have allowed those other books outside of the Gospels to drive us to division, to criticizing our brothers and sisters, and to accusing them all of errors. Seminaries spend much of their time teaching everyone what Paul said more than what Jesus said.

However, as time goes on and you spend time in study and discussions, you might eventually open your mind and learn new things. When this happens, it is a process called "theology." And, that is a good thing.

One day, you will find out how right or how wrong you were. We all will.

In the mean time, will people know that you follow Christ by the way you show love to others? That is a question I ask myself all the time.

Boo
Jul 29th 2014, 08:07 AM
Do we need theology to believe the Bible? No.

Luke 18:17 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.

Mark 10:15 Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.

Matthew 18:2-4 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

1 Cor 1:18-19 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Like everything else we discuss on this board, there IS a balance.

Matt 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is the beauty of our Lord and His gospel. The simplest minds, and the children can receive it and understand it/believe it.

Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

See, take Jesus' word for it, not some puffed up pharisee who says you need to do this or that or have a PhD in theology to be a son of God.

We have theology BECAUSE we believe the Bible. We would not study the Bible if we did not believe it - unless we are attempting to prove that it is not true.

However, when people study the Bible to prove that it is not true, it is not actually theology.

SeekFirstTheKingdom
Jul 29th 2014, 08:27 AM
I hear you - sometimes (mis)understanding of terms muddies the waters.

Also, in reference to your above comment, keep in mind that some read the bible prior to believing it, and while not trying to prove it wrong.

Culsey
Jul 29th 2014, 10:58 PM
I see. And the definition given in Webster's dictionary trumps the definitions that come from Godly men who practice their faith and theology because ..........?

It is evident that you have been angered by someone who claims to be a theologian. Therefore, the very word "theology" becomes a four-letter word for you. You seem to wish to deny that it is nothing more than the study of God.

Believe it or not, I am the same way. The big difference is that I do not blame the word "theology." I blame arrogance and pride. I was the same way, too.

People assemble and make all sorts of claims based on the popular opinion of their group. They frequently err, and then pride and arrogance rise up and establish the doctrines of men which are not provable if the whole content of the Bible is used as proof. Yet, people follow them. Denominations are formed, and universities are established to continue to promote those erroneous doctrines.

Some people do it without a group. They do it all by themselves, claiming that they don't need to discuss what God has given us with anyone else.

Both are called "theology."

Both can be incorrect in the results.

If your "Just chunk theology and go with the Gospel. It worked for Jesus and His apostles. It works for me." is true, then you think you've got it all right.

Every start of a new denomination began with those who "just chunked theology" and went with the Gospel while thinking that "it worked for them." Sadly, it was always "their Gospel" (and included the Epistles and Revelation). This world has ended up with hundreds of versions of Pauline Christianity which holds the writings of Paul as more important than the words of Jesus. We have allowed those other books outside of the Gospels to drive us to division, to criticizing our brothers and sisters, and to accusing them all of errors. Seminaries spend much of their time teaching everyone what Paul said more than what Jesus said.

However, as time goes on and you spend time in study and discussions, you might eventually open your mind and learn new things. When this happens, it is a process called "theology." And, that is a good thing.

One day, you will find out how right or how wrong you were. We all will.

In the mean time, will people know that you follow Christ by the way you show love to others? That is a question I ask myself all the time.

"16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

All that we need to know is the scriptures. For in them is all the Christian needs. When Jesus was tempted by the devil He answered with scripture every time. The word of God is holy and powerful and no words of men are needed.

Boo
Jul 30th 2014, 08:13 AM
"16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

All that we need to know is the scriptures. For in them is all the Christian needs. When Jesus was tempted by the devil He answered with scripture every time. The word of God is holy and powerful and no words of men are needed.

And of course, you have taken into account the time this verse was written and who wrote it and what the various words are actually speaking about, right?

You make it sound like fellowship is not important to you. Are you against hearing what others have to say about what they read and understand? Do you close your heart, ears, and mind to others?

It appears that your position is that you refuse to learn anything unless it comes form your own copy of a translation and that no other thoughts can be given.

If that is true, why are you here?

Culsey
Jul 30th 2014, 03:58 PM
And of course, you have taken into account the time this verse was written and who wrote it and what the various words are actually speaking about, right?

You make it sound like fellowship is not important to you. Are you against hearing what others have to say about what they read and understand? Do you close your heart, ears, and mind to others?

It appears that your position is that you refuse to learn anything unless it comes form your own copy of a translation and that no other thoughts can be given.

If that is true, why are you here?

Why do you make assumptions about me and speak of things you could not possibly know?

Protective Angel
Jul 31st 2014, 03:29 AM
I find myself here as learning, fellowshipping, and passing along Gods inspirations to others.


When the Bible is quoted, it is a "two-edged" sword. The cutting is for healing. Sometimes I'm cut by the scripture I posted.


Praise God for healing. :pp The study of the Bible is a glorious thing. :pp

Boo
Jul 31st 2014, 09:33 AM
Why do you make assumptions about me and speak of things you could not possibly know?

You believe that I cannot know how you used the verse you referenced? Of course, I can.

I cannot know what you said in the past posts? Yes, I can read and understand English.

The problem may rest in how we communicate and what we say. I am drawing a picture in my mind of what you believe by what you write. It is the same thing you do to me and everyone else who posts here. Since we don't go meet up and speak to each other eye-to-eye, it is the only way we know each other.

If my mental picture of you is incorrect, you have the option to clear it up. It depends on your words.

Culsey
Aug 2nd 2014, 02:56 PM
You believe that I cannot know how you used the verse you referenced? Of course, I can.

I cannot know what you said in the past posts? Yes, I can read and understand English.

The problem may rest in how we communicate and what we say. I am drawing a picture in my mind of what you believe by what you write. It is the same thing you do to me and everyone else who posts here. Since we don't go meet up and speak to each other eye-to-eye, it is the only way we know each other.

If my mental picture of you is incorrect, you have the option to clear it up. It depends on your words.

So you think you know a man by reading a few of his posts. A man can be a totally different person on the internet than in real life. You do not realize this? You cannot know a man through an internet site. You do not know me and presume a great deal.

And since you attack the man instead of his position you create a straw man fallacy. You can find no fault with my logic. God and His word are absolute.

Boo
Aug 3rd 2014, 09:47 AM
So you think you know a man by reading a few of his posts. A man can be a totally different person on the internet than in real life. You do not realize this? You cannot know a man through an internet site. You do not know me and presume a great deal.

And since you attack the man instead of his position you create a straw man fallacy. You can find no fault with my logic. God and His word are absolute.

If a man becomes a different person when on an internet site, would that make him "double minded?"

It may not, as we sometimes have a really tough time expressing our true and complete thoughts with the written word. That is easily the case, because we write words from the agenda in our minds while the reader accepts the words from his view. Sometimes the paths don't cross well.

I never attacked you - at all. I attempted to relay to you what I perceive the problem to be.

It seems like you have great disdain for the idea of a group of people studying God's word together and discovering what God would have them to know. That, my brother, is called THEOLOGY.

You have shown that you don't like that - by your words.

Now, if that picture that I have seen you draw is incorrect, please draw the accurate one for me.

Are you against THEOLOGY or are you for it? Are we to come together and learn from God or not?

HeIsRisen
Aug 4th 2014, 02:29 PM
I honestly, just picked up the Bible, began reading it and God revealed Himself to me in a most remarkable way. I must have been about 23. I know God has always been with me since I was a little child and as I grew up. I can see Him in my life as I look back even though I did not really know Him. Even at 23, I still did not really 'know' Him in a wise or understanding way, but it was the beginning...I knew He existed, I just didn't know how much He loved me. But, I had no theology, church or reason to even pick that Bible up...I just did because I was at the end of my rope in life at that time...I was completely alone. The Bible was the beginning of our relationship and it has only grown stronger. I just turned 48 and I am still getting to know Him. When He states:



Hebrews 4:12

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

And after reading it, He makes known to any who read, purposely seeking Him out; Himself, His son, Jesus Christ and His power, existence and love through His Holy Spirit. This scripture is true for any who truly wish to seek Him out:



Isaiah 55:11

11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

petrobb
Aug 4th 2014, 02:52 PM
True theology is what the word of God teaches. The problem is that whilst the word of God remains the same our knowledge of it and our theologies grow and grow. We all develop views, and those are our theology. And we differ from one another. None of us remotely knows all that the Bible says. Our danger lies in when we think we do.

The only one who has no true theology is the one who never looks at the Bible. Once we have learned something from the Bible we have commenced being theologians, however limited.

So the answer is that we need the Bible in order to learn true theology. Theology means the word about God.

petrobb
Aug 4th 2014, 03:00 PM
And after reading it, He makes known to any who read, purposely seeking Him out; Himself, His son, Jesus Christ and His power, existence and love through His Holy Spirit. This scripture is true for any who truly wish to seek Him out:

Isaiah 55:11

11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.


Whilst you rightly point to our need to study the Scriptures I am not convinced that that was what Isaiah was meaning. What he was basically saying in my view was that when God determined to do a thing He spoke and His word inevitably carried out His purpose. God is talking here about His sovereignty over the affairs of men.