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keck553
Jul 28th 2014, 04:13 PM
"So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God's way?" - Peter / Acts 11:17

The book of Acts presents us with many examples of people who have "stood in the Holy Spirit's Way." We see it in several ways, but most noticeable is how tradition and cultural practices highlight this.

A real example - My congregation has VBS. Last year, we had an ineffective Pastor who also had a very domineering wife. "A bull in a china shop" to say it mildly. She was so mean spirited that many congregants choose not to participate. Her ultimate motive was to show all of us how hard working she was.

And it was chaotic and very stressful, even to the kids.

We've subsequently replaced our Pastor. This year, the lady who really is gifted in this with real leadership abilities stepped up to the plate. The difference was incredible - enough for all to see God moving in the whole event. The lady was given the freedom to exercise her gift, which in reality means that God's Spirit was given the freedom to operate. Yes, she did work hard, but didn't wear it on her sleeve. We have a small congregation, but the result was glorifying to God in so many ways. Most of the children do not attend our church, nor do their parents, yet by the end of the week the children had given $825.00 to donate to the Gideons. There was no stress either.

This isn't the result of a different person running the event, it is the result of her submission to the Lord and her allowing the Lord do work within the event as He willed.

Now I have been convicted to inquire within myself if I have stood in His way with my own traditions and doctrines. I am committed to stand on the Word, but I do not want to make that stand on anything that is not Biblical. Have I dismissed another believer's convictions because they didn't "interest" me or fit into my paradigm? I think I have. And I want to turn away from whatever I have done to stand in His way.

Would anyone like to submit any thoughts or convictions of how believers can stand in The Holy Spirit's way, and how to recognize it? Now before anyone start's "venting," I just want to leave this thought - When deconstructing someone's doctrine or convictions, please don't leave them homeless. It's edifying to build a brother a new home after destroying his old home. :)

Slug1
Jul 28th 2014, 04:19 PM
Would anyone like to submit any thoughts or convictions of how believers can stand in The Holy Spirit's way, and how to recognize it? Now before anyone start's "venting," I just want to leave this thought - When deconstructing someone's doctrine or convictions, please don't leave them homeless. It's edifying to build a brother a new home after destroying his old home. :)There are also these 9 supernatural gifts that God has given to the entire Body of Christ, for the Body to be profited by the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit. Due to what a person or a church believes many, if not all, of these gifts cannot flow or be in effect in a church for their profit.

Your example is a great one of submission to the Holy Spirit in a gifting or even a talent a person may have that the Holy Spirit will utilize. But in this same submission, He also empowers the Body with those supernatural gifts as well... unless they stand in His way and say things like... "what's the use of such a gift, blah, blah, blah... when "I"... blah, blah, blah"

That "I" is what's in the way.

petrobb
Jul 28th 2014, 08:20 PM
There are also these 9 supernatural gifts that God has given to the entire Body of Christ, for the Body to be profited by the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit. Due to what a person or a church believes many, if not all, of these gifts cannot flow or be in effect in a church for their profit.

Your example is a great one of submission to the Holy Spirit in a gifting or even a talent a person may have that the Holy Spirit will utilize. But in this same submission, He also empowers the Body with those supernatural gifts as well... unless they stand in His way and say things like... "what's the use of such a gift, blah, blah, blah... when "I"... blah, blah, blah"

That "I" is what's in the way.

There are far more than nine spiritual gifts. That list in Corinthians was simply a list of those the carnal Corinthian church over emphasised and misused. See Romans 12.6-21; Ephesians 4.7-15. The Holy Spirit gives a whole variety of gifts. It is equally foolish to limit ministries on the grounds of Ephesians 4. Indeed there are no genuine Apostles today, only men claiming above themselves. They need to remember 2 Cor 11.13-14. The Corinthian church was hardly a good advertisement

Ta-An
Jul 28th 2014, 08:27 PM
... I think I have.
May Abba Father grant you wisdom and grace and mercy in growing from this experience :hug:

breadfirst
Jul 28th 2014, 09:43 PM
Keck553:

One of the primary role of the Holy Spirit is to point a believer to Christ. Therefore, ones actions/attitude/speech/priorities/etc. will conform to become like Christ's overtime. If it does not then the hindrance or resistance comes from the believer.

I will give you an example, there are Christians (true believers) who do not fellowship with the poorer believers and they may not even realize it. This is exactly the opposite of what Christ would have done.

So as you cross examine your life and compare it with Christ's in a non-condemning manner the Holy Spirit will reveal to you the points of resistance because the reference point is Christ. This is by far the easiest and quickest way for me and if you exercise this regularly and ask the Lord to guide you to make changes you will not only witness the transforming power of the Holy Spirit but it will become a habit.

I also believe being candid and asking for advice is an indication you've already begun yielding to the Holy Spirit.

Slug1
Jul 29th 2014, 12:00 PM
There are far more than nine spiritual gifts. That list in Corinthians was simply a list of those the carnal Corinthian church over emphasised and misused. See Romans 12.6-21; Ephesians 4.7-15. The Holy Spirit gives a whole variety of gifts. It is equally foolish to limit ministries on the grounds of Ephesians 4. Indeed there are no genuine Apostles today, only men claiming above themselves. They need to remember 2 Cor 11.13-14. The Corinthian church was hardly a good advertisementThe Corinthian church is a great lesson for the Body of Christ.

Yes, we all know there are more than those 9. In most discipleship studies about gifts, there are 24. During an 8 month course I had to attend for my ministers license we even had to take this extensive test about the gifts to see what was or where we leaned toward in gifting. This was the most extensive testing I've experienced and what was cool about it, the first question was to list what "I" know are the top 5 of the 24 that I know that God uses me or manifests by the power of the Holy Spirit. My personal list (? 1) was Teaching, Word of Knowledge, Word of Wisdom, Faith, and Administration. I took this test one night and the result of the top 5 were: Teaching, Word of Wisdom, Word of Knowledge, Faith, and Administration :). When one walks in their calling, it's clear what gifting one has.

There is nothing in error of the list of gifts (9 total in this part of the Bible) in 1 Cor 12, the only error was in the use of those gifts. As I pointed out, those specific gifts are listed and God says they are for the profit of the Body. There is no way around this TRUTH, there is no disregarding this TRUTH, there is no way to deny this TRUTH... there is however, unacceptance of this TRUTH and thus as the OP's thread is all about... people thus STAND in the way of the Holy Spirit.

keck553
Jul 29th 2014, 03:05 PM
The Corinthian church is a great lesson for the Body of Christ.

Yes, we all know there are more than those 9. In most discipleship studies about gifts, there are 24. During an 8 month course I had to attend for my ministers license we even had to take this extensive test about the gifts to see what was or where we leaned toward in gifting. This was the most extensive testing I've experienced and what was cool about it, the first question was to list what "I" know are the top 5 of the 24 that I know that God uses me or manifests by the power of the Holy Spirit. My personal list (? 1) was Teaching, Word of Knowledge, Word of Wisdom, Faith, and Administration. I took this test one night and the result of the top 5 were: Teaching, Word of Wisdom, Word of Knowledge, Faith, and Administration :). When one walks in their calling, it's clear what gifting one has.

There is nothing in error of the list of gifts (9 total in this part of the Bible) in 1 Cor 12, the only error was in the use of those gifts. As I pointed out, those specific gifts are listed and God says they are for the profit of the Body. There is no way around this TRUTH, there is no disregarding this TRUTH, there is no way to deny this TRUTH... there is however, unacceptance of this TRUTH and thus as the OP's thread is all about... people thus STAND in the way of the Holy Spirit.

I think we humans tend to codify things a bit much. On the one hand, it is important in ministry to identify these gifts for proper use, on the other hand there is a possibility a gift or talent is dismissed because its not "on the list." Imagine the edification that would result if we kept in prayer and so in tune with The Holy Spirit that our considerations of how to involve members of the body stretched outside of that box. God can't be contained. I'm reminded of how He gifted Israelites specifically for building the Tabernacle. I'm not convinced all those gifts remained, but I'll wager they were greater than man's abilities.

Slug1
Jul 29th 2014, 03:44 PM
I think we humans tend to codify things a bit much. On the one hand, it is important in ministry to identify these gifts for proper use, on the other hand there is a possibility a gift or talent is dismissed because its not "on the list." Imagine the edification that would result if we kept in prayer and so in tune with The Holy Spirit that our considerations of how to involve members of the body stretched outside of that box. God can't be contained. I'm reminded of how He gifted Israelites specifically for building the Tabernacle. I'm not convinced all those gifts remained, but I'll wager they were greater than man's abilities.Amen... I agree totally. If it matters because I don't want this to derail the thread, here is the list of gifting(s) we studied for about 3 weeks of the 8 month course:

Word of Knowledge
Word of Wisdom
Faith
Healings
Miracles
Prophecy
Discernment
Tongues
Interpretation of Tongues
Apostleship
Teaching
Helps
Administration
Encouragement
Giving
Leadership
Mercy
Evangelism
Shepherding
Hospitality
Craftmanship - this is the one you just mentioned
Intercession
Creative Communication (Worship, praise dance, drama/skits, etc)

I have personally experienced "craftmanship". I have no clue in how to build with wood short of a box or being told what to do for basic stuff. When we bought this school and we needed a "altar" that would fit the entire worship team, I was given this task by the senior pastor to get-r-done. I informed him that I have NO experience building something remotely like an altar. He suggested that I find the help I need but no one would step up in knowing HOW to build an altar to the dimensions that the senior pastor wanted.

So I prayed to God... I got the specs, I wrote them all down, I went to Home Depot and baught all that was on the list, I then got those who God told me to use in the crafting of this altar and we built it all in 2 days... an altar that was 12x24 and 18 inches high off the floor. Strong enough to support the weight of 20 people if that many were to stand on it because of all the praise dancing that may be done on this altar. I just followed through with what the Lord put into my spirit to get and to do and in directing the help in what to do, we built it.

I've never built anything like this before and haven't since.

keck553
Jul 29th 2014, 05:53 PM
Amen... I agree totally. If it matters because I don't want this to derail the thread, here is the list of gifting(s) we studied for about 3 weeks of the 8 month course:

Word of Knowledge
Word of Wisdom
Faith
Healings
Miracles
Prophecy
Discernment
Tongues
Interpretation of Tongues
Apostleship
Teaching
Helps
Administration
Encouragement
Giving
Leadership
Mercy
Evangelism
Shepherding
Hospitality
Craftmanship - this is the one you just mentioned
Intercession
Creative Communication (Worship, praise dance, drama/skits, etc)

I have personally experienced "craftmanship". I have no clue in how to build with wood short of a box or being told what to do for basic stuff. When we bought this school and we needed a "altar" that would fit the entire worship team, I was given this task by the senior pastor to get-r-done. I informed him that I have NO experience building something remotely like an altar. He suggested that I find the help I need but no one would step up in knowing HOW to build an altar to the dimensions that the senior pastor wanted.

So I prayed to God... I got the specs, I wrote them all down, I went to Home Depot and baught all that was on the list, I then got those who God told me to use in the crafting of this altar and we built it all in 2 days... an altar that was 12x24 and 18 inches high off the floor. Strong enough to support the weight of 20 people if that many were to stand on it because of all the praise dancing that may be done on this altar. I just followed through with what the Lord put into my spirit to get and to do and in directing the help in what to do, we built it.

I've never built anything like this before and haven't since.

Nice - your story brought a smile to me and joy. I've been kind of a jack of many trades in congregations - music, teaching, opening congregational prayer, fixing stuff, leading community groups, building things - in my normal life I am only okay with these things, and though I get the impression I am only okay with these things in church also, I get feedback that my work has been exemplary. I find it difficult to accept, because I don't recall being that good. Actually sometimes I don't even recall what went on during those assignments. But then, it's not about my works is it?

Slug1
Jul 29th 2014, 07:36 PM
Nice - your story brought a smile to me and joy. I've been kind of a jack of many trades in congregations - music, teaching, opening congregational prayer, fixing stuff, leading community groups, building things - in my normal life I am only okay with these things, and though I get the impression I am only okay with these things in church also, I get feedback that my work has been exemplary. I find it difficult to accept, because I don't recall being that good. Actually sometimes I don't even recall what went on during those assignments. But then, it's not about my works is it?I know exactly what you are saying. There are times when I have preached and a portion of preaching was not expected but I speak as led. Then while I'm preaching my interpreter stumbled in the translating and wanted me to repeat what I had just said... I can't answer the question and usually one of the other alternate translators will pipe up with the translation as they recognize what is happening and they are more experienced in being my translator and the Holy Spirit is placing something on my spirit to bring forth right in the middle of the sermon. Anyway, the preaching continues as I allow the Holy Spirit the freedom to lead what is to be spoken to the congregation. I do prepare notes but I have had visitors enter the church and sit and what I find is that the Holy Spirit will lead to a whole different topic, even scriptures and I just roll with what is placed upon my spirit and of course, in speaking with the visitor later, the message was "just" for them.

God be praised.

keck553
Jul 29th 2014, 09:52 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean.

Protective Angel
Jul 30th 2014, 02:43 AM
Nice - your story brought a smile to me and joy. I've been kind of a jack of many trades in congregations - music, teaching, opening congregational prayer, fixing stuff, leading community groups, building things - in my normal life I am only okay with these things, and though I get the impression I am only okay with these things in church also, I get feedback that my work has been exemplary. I find it difficult to accept, because I don't recall being that good. Actually sometimes I don't even recall what went on during those assignments. But then, it's not about my works is it?

I just felt like giving you a big hug..... :hug:

Protective Angel
Jul 30th 2014, 02:47 AM
I know exactly what you are saying. There are times when I have preached and a portion of preaching was not expected but I speak as led. Then while I'm preaching my interpreter stumbled in the translating and wanted me to repeat what I had just said... I can't answer the question and usually one of the other alternate translators will pipe up with the translation as they recognize what is happening and they are more experienced in being my translator and the Holy Spirit is placing something on my spirit to bring forth right in the middle of the sermon. Anyway, the preaching continues as I allow the Holy Spirit the freedom to lead what is to be spoken to the congregation. I do prepare notes but I have had visitors enter the church and sit and what I find is that the Holy Spirit will lead to a whole different topic, even scriptures and I just roll with what is placed upon my spirit and of course, in speaking with the visitor later, the message was "just" for them.

God be praised.



Praise God...... :)