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ChangedByHim
Aug 26th 2014, 03:28 PM
We know that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24); do you believe that He has a shape?

David Taylor
Aug 26th 2014, 03:31 PM
a rhombus, definitely a rhombus.

ChangedByHim
Aug 26th 2014, 04:24 PM
a rhombus, definitely a rhombus.

Thanks for playing :)

divaD
Aug 26th 2014, 04:36 PM
We know that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24); do you believe that He has a shape?



What about something like this?

Exodus 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


The Hebrew word for 'part' is 'achowr', and is also used in the following passage, which demonstrates according to context, the sense can sometimes mean something literal and clearly visible.

1 Ki 7:25 It stood upon twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, and three looking toward the west, and three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east: and the sea [was set] above upon them, and all their hinder parts(achow) [were] inward.

Even though this has to do with 1 Kings 7:14, this work was still something literal that could be seen, as pertaining to...all their hinder parts(achow) [were] inward.
In the same way then, it is only logical that Moses saw something literal about God in Exodus 33, the fact he was shown His back parts, but not His face as well. If Moses saw nothing literal, then why also say.. but my face shall not be seen? That would seem redundant to make mention of this if nothing about God is literal or even visible.

keck553
Aug 26th 2014, 04:46 PM
Why does this thread remind me of Max Frost and the Troopers?

divaD
Aug 26th 2014, 04:58 PM
Why does this thread remind me of Max Frost and the Troopers?

I have no clue who Max Frost and the Troopers even is? As to this thread, I was under the impression CBH's OP was a serious question. I for one tried to at least provide a serious answer. That doesn't mean folks might agree with my answer, but still it was a serious answer nonetheless.

ChangedByHim
Aug 26th 2014, 05:15 PM
I have no clue who Max Frost and the Troopers even is? As to this thread, I was under the impression CBH's OP was a serious question. I for one tried to at least provide a serious answer. That doesn't mean folks might agree with my answer, but still it was a serious answer nonetheless.

Serious indeed.

ChangedByHim
Aug 26th 2014, 05:18 PM
I believe, in fact, that the Father does have a shape. Jesus, Himself, said so in John chapter 5:

John 5:37
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

keck553
Aug 26th 2014, 05:34 PM
Well, Moses saw His back...

petrobb
Aug 26th 2014, 05:40 PM
I believe, in fact, that the Father does have a shape. Jesus, Himself, said so in John chapter 5:

John 5:37
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

what we have to take into account are two factors, firstly the limit of human language (how do you describe a spirit) and secondly that God appeared in many shapes.

To Abraham He appeared as a man. Abraham saw 'His shape'. But he did not really see the shape of God, just one of the shapes that He took on in His revelation of Himself to man.

To Moses He appeared as fire in a burning bush that was not consumed.To Israel He appeared as fire, and as a storm. The same with Ezekiel. Fire was a good symbol for it revealed that He was light, that He appeared in flaming judgment, that He was untouchable and unlimited, and constantly changing, and so on. To Isaiah He was indescribable.

Note that in Exodus 33 Moses was to see His glory. This suggests appearance as fire. But Moses was not to see His full glory. Hence he only saw the fire trails.

Jesus was not saying that God had One shape. He was pointing out that they had not seen Him in any of His shapes. Abraham had heard His voice and seen His shape (in human form). Israel had heard His voice and seen His shape (as fire). Moses had heard His voice and seen His shape in seeing His glorious fire. But none of these limit God to a particular shape. If Solomon could say, 'even the Heaven of heavens cannot contain you, how much less this house that I have built, how much more is that true of a 'shape'?
What shape could be omnipresent?

ChangedByHim
Aug 26th 2014, 05:43 PM
Jesus was not saying that God had One shape. He was pointing out that they had not seen Him in any of His shapes.

I'm not discounting some of the things you said; however, the above is NOT what Jesus said. It's an interpretation.

petrobb
Aug 26th 2014, 05:44 PM
I'm not discounting some of the things you said; however, the above is NOT what Jesus said. It's an interpretation.

true and whatever you say will be an interpretation. :)

When reading about spiritual things we have to 'interpret' in the light of other Scripture. Jesus almost certainly had Moses in mind.

the 'shape' He was speaking of was His 'shape' on the mount (Deut 5.23-26)

LandShark
Aug 26th 2014, 05:55 PM
We know that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24); do you believe that He has a shape?

In Genesis, when God makes man, He makes man in His own image, tselem in Hebrew. Though we treat that word as if "character attributes, Tselem means, "mirrored reflection, likeness, semblance, resemblance." Adam looked at least to some degree, like the one who made Him. Now God is a Spirit, but at least within Himself, He had a form in mind, that was HIS, and I think He kept it hidden. When Paul writes that "God was manifested in the flesh, SEEN BY ANGELS," we often focus on the former and not the latter. It is saying, even the angels had not "SEEN" that form yet. Yes God took form at various times, but "His own image" He preserved, hid, until He revealed it in His son. For IN HIM, Paul wrote, dwelt the fulness of the Godhead bodily. The Son even called, "THE IMAGE of the invisible God." Not AN image, but "the" image, the same that he patterned Adam after. The second Adam, one might say, was the exact pattern that the first Adam was made after. But why keep it secret? Well, to fool the Adversary... for if the princes of this world had only known, they would not have crucified Him! Known what? Known WHO they were putting to death, for in doing so they sealed their own fate.

mailmandan
Aug 26th 2014, 05:58 PM
In Genesis, when God makes man, He makes man in His own image, tselem in Hebrew. Though we treat that word as if "character attributes, Tselem means, "mirrored reflection, likeness, semblance, resemblance." Adam looked at least to some degree, like the one who made Him. Now God is a Spirit, but at least within Himself, He had a form in mind, that was HIS, and I think He kept it hidden. When Paul writes that "God was manifested in the flesh, SEEN BY ANGELS," we often focus on the former and not the latter. It is saying, even the angels had not "SEEN" that form yet. Yes God took form at various times, but "His own image" He preserved, hid, until He revealed it in His son. For IN HIM, Paul wrote, dwelt the fulness of the Godhead bodily. The Son even called, "THE IMAGE of the invisible God." Not AN image, but "the" image, the same that he patterned Adam after. The second Adam, one might say, was the exact pattern that the first Adam was made after. But why keep it secret? Well, to fool the Adversary... for if the princes of this world had only known, they would not have crucified Him! Known what? Known WHO they were putting to death, for in doing so they sealed their own fate.

This makes sense to me! :)

petrobb
Aug 26th 2014, 06:04 PM
In Genesis, when God makes man, He makes man in His own image, tselem in Hebrew. Though we treat that word as if "character attributes, Tselem means, "mirrored reflection, likeness, semblance, resemblance." Adam looked at least to some degree, like the one who made Him. Now God is a Spirit, but at least within Himself, He had a form in mind, that was HIS, and I think He kept it hidden. When Paul writes that "God was manifested in the flesh, SEEN BY ANGELS," we often focus on the former and not the latter. It is saying, even the angels had not "SEEN" that form yet. Yes God took form at various times, but "His own image" He preserved, hid, until He revealed it in His son. For IN HIM, Paul wrote, dwelt the fulness of the Godhead bodily. The Son even called, "THE IMAGE of the invisible God." Not AN image, but "the" image, the same that he patterned Adam after. The second Adam, one might say, was the exact pattern that the first Adam was made after. But why keep it secret? Well, to fool the Adversary... for if the princes of this world had only known, they would not have crucified Him! Known what? Known WHO they were putting to death, for in doing so they sealed their own fate.

of course that assumes that we were made in the image of God and not in the image of haelohim (the angels). No physical thing could really be in the image of God as such. The writer was using human language in order to indicate that we were made as spiritual beings within a body. we were the only beings on earth who could have spiritual contact with God. Just ask yourself, if God has one specific shape why so many different manifestations? It was the glory of YHWH that fell on the Tabernacle not a human-like body.

No man has seen God at any time. We need to beware lest in our sophistication we limit God. Note 1 TIM 6.16. Whom no man HAS SEEN or can see

divaD
Aug 26th 2014, 06:07 PM
Jesus was not saying that God had One shape. He was pointing out that they had not seen Him in any of His shapes. Abraham had heard His voice and seen His shape (in human form). Israel had heard His voice and seen His shape (as fire). Moses had heard His voice and seen His shape in seeing His glorious fire. But none of these limit God to a particular shape. If Solomon could say, 'even the Heaven of heavens cannot contain you, how much less this house that I have built, how much more is that true of a 'shape'?
What shape could be omnipresent?

What am I missing here? I admit my focus is not what it used to be. I've reread John 5:37 and the surrounding context several times now, and I still don't see how you conclude all of that from verse 37? Isn't the context related to them not believing whom Jesus was claiming to be, claiming where He came from, etc? What do all of these other things have to do with this? Verse 37 also says...Ye have neither heard his voice at any time..where we are then told in verse 38 this...And ye have not his word abiding in you. Could be a good reason they never heard his voice at any time.

ChangedByHim
Aug 26th 2014, 06:13 PM
true and whatever you say will be an interpretation. :)

When reading about spiritual things we have to 'interpret' in the light of other Scripture. Jesus almost certainly had Moses in mind.

the 'shape' He was speaking of was His 'shape' on the mount (Deut 5.23-26)

I just quoted what Jesus said.

Why would he just have Moses in mind? As the Son, had he not Himself seen the Father?

LandShark
Aug 26th 2014, 06:13 PM
of course that assumes that we were made in the image of God and not in the image of haelohim (the angels). No physical thing could really be in the image of God as such. The writer was using human language in order to indicate that we were made as spiritual beings within a body. we were the only beings on earth who could have spiritual contact with God. Just ask yourself, if God has one specific shape why so many different manifestations? It was the glory of YHWH that fell on the Tabernacle not a human-like body.

No man has seen God at any time. We need to beware lest in our sophistication we limit God.

Brother, one of the 3 men that showed up to Abraham was called YHWH. I can share a handful of other examples of the same, I can show prophesy stating that God Himself was coming (Jesus quoted Isaiah 35 to John's disciples in answer to the question, "Are you the one to come or do we seek another?" No man has seen God in the Spirit at any time, but God has taken form. Also, you added to Scripture by writing that the angels made us. God SPOKE the world into existence... His WORD came forth from His mouth and did not return void... that Word was God and that Word became flesh. If you don't agree that's fine, but please, and I mean this with no disrespect intended, don't feel the need to spend any time trying to convince me otherwise. On this I will never budge. I can show you places where either Jesus is God or the Scripture does truly contradict itself severely. I don't like doing that however, because if you are not very far along in your faith (and by "you" in speak in general, not YOU!) it will cause at least cognitive dissonance, if not a stumbling in the faith.

petrobb
Aug 26th 2014, 06:17 PM
What am I missing here? I admit my focus is not what it used to be. I've reread John 5:37 and the surrounding context several times now, and I still don't see how you conclude all of that from verse 37? Isn't the context related to them not believing whom Jesus was claiming to be, claiming where He came from, etc? What do all of these other things have to do with this? Verse 37 also says...Ye have neither heard his voice at any time..where we are then told in verse 38 this...And ye have not his word abiding in you. Could be a good reason they never heard his voice at any time.

its funny how you literalists suddenly apply things spiritually. Hearing His voice is suddenly limited to hearing His word. Jesus had something specific in mind. He did after all have in mind Moses' writings (5.47). Note that Jesus was speaking of 'at any time'. That suggests that He was thinking of a theophany and had a number of examples in mind. Others had heard His voice and seen His form, but they had not.

cuban
Aug 26th 2014, 06:27 PM
We know that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24); do you believe that He has a shape?

The highest of heavens cannot contain Him.

His having a likeness in image which we were created in does not require a form. The Father is spirit; omnipresent infiniteness cannot be grasped or molded into the confinement of a shape.

Christ is the express image of God's person, not His shape.

petrobb
Aug 26th 2014, 06:29 PM
Brother, one of the 3 men that showed up to Abraham was called YHWH.

Precisely. That is what I said. Abraham saw God in human form. But that does not mean that God IS in human form. It was a manifestation, a theophany, but not His real likeness NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME.


I can share a handful of other examples of the same, I can show prophesy stating that God Himself was coming (Jesus quoted Isaiah 35 to John's disciples in answer to the question, "Are you the one to come or do we seek another?" No man has seen God in the Spirit at any time, but God has taken form.

It is YOU who is adding to Scripture. NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME. No ifs and buts!!!



Also, you added to Scripture by writing that the angels made us.

LOL I did nothing of the kind. I said that GOD made us in the image of the elohim, a very different thing.




God SPOKE the world into existence... His WORD came forth from His mouth and did not return void... that Word was God and that Word became flesh

These scriptures do not go together as easily as that. Isaiah was speaking of God's spoken word accomplishing His purpose. not specifically of Jesus In Genesis 1 Jesus was doing the speaking !!!!


.
If you don't agree that's fine, but please, and I mean this with no disrespect intended, don't feel the need to spend any time trying to convince me otherwise.


I won't. your mind is set. I am writing to those still seeking


On this I will never budge. I can show you places where either Jesus is God or the Scripture does truly contradict itself severely.

I fully agree that Jesus is God, but not that you can limit Him in the Old Testament to one manifestation. Some people do love pigeonholing God.


I don't like doing that however, because if you are not very far along in your faith (and by "you" in speak in general, not YOU!) it will cause at least cognitive dissonance, if not a stumbling in the faith.

Then why raise the issue? :)

divaD
Aug 26th 2014, 06:30 PM
That suggests that He was thinking of a theophany and had a number of examples in mind. Others had heard His voice and seen His form, but they had not.

What exactly does this prove though? Wwhat about the ones God gave up to the wilderness for 40 years? Weren't they aware of His literal presence beforehand, yet they still came against God?

divaD
Aug 26th 2014, 06:33 PM
It is YOU who is adding to Scripture. NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME. No ifs and buts!!!




You must not believe Jesus is God then? Plenty of folks seen Jesus back then. The point being, perhaps you should interpret that according to it's context, otherwise it is a cotradiction to folks seeing Jesus, and the fact He is most defnetely God.

petrobb
Aug 26th 2014, 07:13 PM
What exactly does this prove though? Wwhat about the ones God gave up to the wilderness for 40 years? Weren't they aware of His literal presence beforehand, yet they still came against God?

true and they will therefore suffer the greater condemnation. what it proved was that the scribes were inferior to Moses while Jesus was at least on a par with Moses (and of course more)

petrobb
Aug 26th 2014, 07:17 PM
You must not believe Jesus is God then? Plenty of folks seen Jesus back then. The point being, perhaps you should interpret that according to it's context, otherwise it is a cotradiction to folks seeing Jesus, and the fact He is most defnetely God.

but seeing Jesus was not seeing God in His essence. It was to see Him in veiled form.

You would think from what people say here that it was ME who said, 'WHOM NO MAN HAS SEEN NOR CAN SEE'. But it was NOT It was Paul speaking by the Spirit!! I just believe him and don't try to fit his words into my ideas.

Aviyah
Aug 26th 2014, 07:44 PM
Since God is far beyond 3-dimensional space, I think that even if God has a "shape" we have no capacity to understand what it looks like. But He has expressed Himself through the image of Jesus.

LandShark
Aug 26th 2014, 08:19 PM
Precisely. That is what I said. Abraham saw God in human form. But that does not mean that God IS in human form. It was a manifestation, a theophany, but not His real likeness NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME.

It is YOU who is adding to Scripture. NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME. No ifs and buts!!!

You need to calm down a little and stop assuming you have full understanding. As for your comments...

Gen. 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exo. 33:11a And YHWH spoke unto Moses face to face, as a man speaks unto his friend.

Deut. 5:4 YHWH talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire

Deut. 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom YHWH knew face to face,

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, Am I so long a time with you, and you have not known Me, Philip? The he that has seen Me has seen the Father! And how do you say, Show us the Father?

Brother... God is a Spirit and we cannot see the Spirit. But God also has an image that is His own... He made Adam in that image. We can see that image, when He presents it, otherwise, we can't see Him.

petrobb
Aug 26th 2014, 08:41 PM
You need to calm down a little and stop assuming you have full understanding. As for your comments...

LOL I put words in capitals so as to highlight them not as speaking with a loud voice.


Gen. 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

But he had not seen God face to face. He only thought he had. He had seen a theophany in human form. He had not seen God as He is.


Exo. 33:11a And YHWH spoke unto Moses face to face, as a man speaks unto his friend.

Ditto


Deut. 5:4 YHWH talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire


But God did not talk to Israel face to face. They saw only the cloud with glory seeping through. They did not see God in His essence.


Deut. 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom YHWH knew face to face,


You can put it in bold as much as you like but it does not mean that Moses literally saw God's essence. Indeed we know from Exodus 33.17 ff that he could not see God face to face and live


John 14:9 Jesus said to him, Am I so long a time with you, and you have not known Me, Philip? The he that has seen Me has seen the Father! And how do you say, Show us the Father?


Very true because to see God was to see all of God. But they had only seen Him in veiled form. This was a declaration of His Godhead not a claim that in seeing Him they saw what God was like in His Being.



Brother... God is a Spirit and we cannot see the Spirit. But God also has an image that is His own... He made Adam in that image. We can see that image, when He presents it, otherwise, we can't see Him.

Nowhere does the Bible say that God has an image which is His own. It declares that God is unknown and unknowable. That we cannot fathom or see God. It says of Him Whom no man has seen or can see (1 Tim 6.16)

He manifested Himself in a human body to Abraham. He manifested Himself as the Angel of YHWH to Ishmael's mother. He manifested Himself as a flame of fire to Moses, and to Israel as a burning furnace. But He informed Moses that he could not see Him as He was. He manifested Himself as a fiery figure to Ezekiel. He manifested Himself as a human being in Palestine in a unique way. But NONE saw Him as He is. For He dwells in unapproachable light and no man has ever seen Him thus, or can see Him. We cannot pin God down, only receive as much as He is willing to reveal of Himself. And for that we must believe what He says.

cuban
Aug 26th 2014, 11:14 PM
We know that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24); do you believe that He has a shape?

I also find it interesting enough to note how God forbid the worship of graven images or idols(idolatry)... Wouldn't it have been a perfect time to command Israel to carve something out resembling His shape as the only God they worshipped? No, he is far beyond what we can imagine. Is it possible that attributing shape to He who is without boundaries is a form or idolatry in itself? Something to consider..

ChangedByHim
Aug 26th 2014, 11:37 PM
I also find it interesting enough to note how God forbid the worship of graven images or idols(idolatry)... Wouldn't it have been a perfect time to command Israel to carve something out resembling His shape as the only God they worshipped? No, he is far beyond what we can imagine. Is it possible that attributing shape to He who is without boundaries is a form or idolatry in itself? Something to consider..

His shape is not far beyond what we can imagine. We are made in His image.

cuban
Aug 27th 2014, 12:09 AM
His shape is not far beyond what we can imagine. We are made in His image.

I see you chose to not comment on my addition before this assertion. Very well. :)

How about this then:

If the Father is spirit, then what shape does spirit portray?

cuban
Aug 27th 2014, 12:36 AM
I must say that...I believe the focus of an edifying discussion would not be a debate of whether or not God maintains some manner of form...but what we are being conformed to and renewed in by grace. That I believe is the essence or nature or 'image' that we were created in. Does the 'likeness of God' indicate physical form?

Perhaps a better question would be, what does being created in His image fully encompass?

Peace.

ChangedByHim
Aug 27th 2014, 01:36 AM
I see you chose to not comment on my addition before this assertion. Very well. :)

How about this then:

If the Father is spirit, then what shape does spirit portray?

It wasn't a volitional choice :)

I don't know. Jesus didn't tell us.

LandShark
Aug 27th 2014, 02:01 AM
Nowhere does the Bible say that God has an image which is His own. It declares that God is unknown and unknowable. That we cannot fathom or see God. It says of Him Whom no man has seen or can see (1 Tim 6.16)

He manifested Himself in a human body to Abraham. He manifested Himself as the Angel of YHWH to Ishmael's mother. He manifested Himself as a flame of fire to Moses, and to Israel as a burning furnace. But He informed Moses that he could not see Him as He was. He manifested Himself as a fiery figure to Ezekiel. He manifested Himself as a human being in Palestine in a unique way. But NONE saw Him as He is. For He dwells in unapproachable light and no man has ever seen Him thus, or can see Him. We cannot pin God down, only receive as much as He is willing to reveal of Himself. And for that we must believe what He says.

Nothing you have said I disagree with, nor does anything I said contradict what you have said. Look, first of all, "face to face" is an idiom anyway... and God "as a Spirit" has been seen by nobody. However, we do disagree on one point, He DOES have an image that is His. It says, "So God made man in HIS OWN IMAGE." The word for image is tselem, which means semblance, resemblance, mirrored reflection, etc. Look it up... the word you say does not exist does both in English and especially in the Hebrew.

jeffweeder
Aug 27th 2014, 02:34 AM
What did Adam behold as he fellowship with God in the garden?
He did hear the sound of the Lord walking in the garden, and God calling out to him after they fell.
He was alone in his form, and overjoyed when he saw Eve.

Scooby_Snacks
Aug 27th 2014, 02:40 AM
We know that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24); do you believe that He has a shape?

He is shaped like the void in each individuals heart, that He may fill every space in a unique and Masterful way with His perfect Glory.

Reynolds357
Aug 27th 2014, 04:09 AM
We know that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24); do you believe that He has a shape?

I have always thought He looks and awful lot like His Son.

Redeemed by Grace
Aug 27th 2014, 12:33 PM
We know that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24); do you believe that He has a shape?

Hi CBH... I was just curious as to why the thread? Not sure we will ever know, for we are not told, but was wondering if it were your studies or just a question that you are seeking or declaring views?

Thanks

ChangedByHim
Aug 27th 2014, 03:33 PM
Hi CBH... I was just curious as to why the thread? Not sure we will ever know, for we are not told, but was wondering if it were your studies or just a question that you are seeking or declaring views?

ThanksI was reading through John and the comment Jesus made about not seeing His shape jumped out at me. Now you know :)

keck553
Aug 27th 2014, 04:03 PM
Well, God warns us in the Bible not to create an image of Him. I think that's probably a wise council.

Redeemed by Grace
Aug 27th 2014, 04:07 PM
I was reading through John and the comment Jesus made about not seeing His shape jumped out at me. Now you know :)

Gotcha .

petrobb
Aug 27th 2014, 05:50 PM
Nothing you have said I disagree with, nor does anything I said contradict what you have said. Look, first of all, "face to face" is an idiom anyway... and God "as a Spirit" has been seen by nobody. However, we do disagree on one point, He DOES have an image that is His. It says, "So God made man in HIS OWN IMAGE." The word for image is tselem, which means semblance, resemblance, mirrored reflection, etc. Look it up... the word you say does not exist does both in English and especially in the Hebrew.

tselem is simply used in a metaphorical way when it speaks of God. God's image in me is my spirit and conscience. Neither can be seen or have a shape..It has nothing to do with what I look like physically.

divaD
Aug 27th 2014, 06:32 PM
tselem is simply used in a metaphorical way when it speaks of God. God's image in me is my spirit and conscience. Neither can be seen or have a shape..It has nothing to do with what I look like physically.


.

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Somehow I don't see this meaning we should not shed man's blood because we physically resemble God.

LandShark
Aug 27th 2014, 06:52 PM
tselem is simply used in a metaphorical way when it speaks of God. God's image in me is my spirit and conscience. Neither can be seen or have a shape..It has nothing to do with what I look like physically.

If you say so... you often change the meanings of words to fit your bias'. "God made man in His own image" is just a metaphor... I guess when speaking of the son of God, "who is THE IMAGE of the invisible God" is just a metaphor too! :rolleyes:

ProDeo
Aug 27th 2014, 07:27 PM
We know that God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24); do you believe that He has a shape?
Not sure if already pointed out but God walked in the cool of the day in Eden.

petrobb
Aug 27th 2014, 09:12 PM
If you say so... you often change the meanings of words to fit your bias'. "God made man in His own image" is just a metaphor... I guess when speaking of the son of God, "who is THE IMAGE of the invisible God" is just a metaphor too! :rolleyes:

well actually yes. what is invisible cannot have an image in your sense :thumbsup:

ChangedByHim
Aug 27th 2014, 09:21 PM
tselem is simply used in a metaphorical way when it speaks of God. God's image in me is my spirit and conscience. Neither can be seen or have a shape..It has nothing to do with what I look like physically.

Your spirit cannot be seen while wearing an earth suit (body), but that doesn't mean it cannot be seen when it leaves the body and advances into the spirit world.

I'm not sure if you believe in heaven immediately after death (many here don't), but when we get there, we aren't going to be invisible spirits floating around.

ewq1938
Aug 28th 2014, 07:15 AM
Has God (The Father) not described that he has a body? I don't care if its temporary or permanent only if described at all.

LandShark
Aug 28th 2014, 12:09 PM
well actually yes. what is invisible cannot have an image in your sense :thumbsup:

Yes, but the obvious bites you in the nose and you just keep brushing it off. If the Scripture says, "God made man in His own image," then God has an image that is His. It might be hidden in Him, concealed until such a time when He desires to reveal it, but He has an image. When the Son (God, the Spirit in the flesh) came, he was called, "THE IMAGE" of the invisible God. To look at him, he said, was to look at the Father. The Son is THE IMAGE of the Father... concealed until the time to reveal... and this for the reason of competing the task at hand. For if the princes of this world had only known WHO he was... they would not have crucified "The LORD OF GLORY." The same Spirit that spoke the world into existence, who humbled himself in fashion as a man for the suffering of death. You want to explain away "made man in HIS OWN IMAGE," because it doesn't fit your paradigm. But again, if He has an image He patterned Adam after, then He has an image, end of story.

keck553
Aug 28th 2014, 05:52 PM
I'm not sure if you believe in heaven immediately after death (many here don't), but when we get there, we aren't going to be invisible spirits floating around.

Now that would be annoying....But Isaiah (for one) doesn't describe God or Seraphim as invisible.

Neither does John in Revelation. Or Ezekiel.

I think I'm going to say that "God made us in His image" is not a spiritual metaphor.

LandShark
Sep 4th 2014, 12:14 PM
Now that would be annoying....But Isaiah (for one) doesn't describe God or Seraphim as invisible.

Neither does John in Revelation. Or Ezekiel.

I think I'm going to say that "God made us in His image" is not a spiritual metaphor.

The word for image in the Genesis verse (tselem) means "mirrored reflection, semblance, resemblance." It may have been hidden in God, but somewhere He had an image of Himself from which He pattered Adam after. Adam was made in God's image, we come from Adam.

ewq1938
Sep 4th 2014, 10:07 PM
Two words are used:

Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


There is no need to debate who the "we" are here but it definitely included God the Father and someone or more than one someone. Most believe it includes Angels so let's use that to simplify things.

image
H6754
צלם
tselem
tseh'-lem
From an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, that is, (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence a representative figure, especially an idol: - image, vain shew.


The orange is not particularly important since that is the definition of this words root word but the red highlighted text is this words actual definition. Here we see that essentially the "figure" of something is is a physical representation of the original. It would be akin to a boy being extra tall like his father and maybe grandfather. That boy would be the "figure" of his male relative in a physical sense. Angels have the basic head, two arms and legs and torso...the basic "human" type design. God the Father has been seen and described in the scriptures and has the same physical design. It is then clear he used his own form, whether a permanent or a temporary form, as a pattern for much of his creations ie: Angels and Mankind.

likeness
H1823
דּמוּת
demûth
dem-ooth'
From H1819; resemblance; concretely model, shape; adverbially like: - fashion, like (-ness, as), manner, similitude.

And this word has the same basic meaning as well.