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View Full Version : Luke 11:1-13 Does this passage just teach us to pray or is there something better?



breadfirst
Sep 19th 2014, 03:37 PM
Before we begin please read Luke 11:1-13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+11%3A1-13&version=NASB).

We often read these passages and walk away either condemned because it seems to convict us of the lack of prayer in our lives or we don't seem to put the Lord's kingdom first in our prayers. In addition there maybe a tendency our prayers turn into a large wish list of both material needs and forgiveness of sins without giving Him the glory and praise He deserves initially. However, if you read the verses 1-13 as a whole the picture becomes clearer that the passage is NOT just about prayer but also something greater which I will explain later. Let's take a look.

Verses 1-4 (Prayer)

Disciples often found Jesus praying to His Father. They must have witnessed the link between Jesus' tight knit relationship with the Lord, visible only through His prayers, and the ministry He did on earth, hence, their question. It is interesting to note that disciples specifically asked Jesus to teach them to pray as opposed to teach them to preach, teach, evangelize, do miracles, etc. The reason may be attributed to the fact in those days access to God was through a high priest and here they are witnessing a direct access to the Almighty and must have desired the same. The idea may have been radical but something that certainly caught their attention. So these verses provide a guideline for praying in approaching the Father directly and is NOT to be taken literally but it helps to see that praising God comes first on the list and forgiveness of sins is almost towards the end. Both have their significance in a Christian's life but sometimes Christians get bogged down in seeking forgiveness of their sins that they often forget to praise the Lord and seek the expansion of His kingdom. Since my Bible study is NOT on prayer I am not expanding this further.

Verses 5-8 (Persistence)

This section is a continuation from the prayer lesson. Here the Lord is teaching persistence. One interesting aspect of this passage is the three characters. They are all friends and the discussion happens amongst them. One friend shows up at night while the other wakes up late to give bread for the friend's friend that came late. This describes the type of relationship we have with the Lord including the freedom to approach Him at any time. The friend's reluctance to wake up and give food initially is NOT a picture of the Lord's character; rather, it's a story that has a moral behind it as it teaches us to persist because of the freedom we have in Him. This is also not a representation that Christians can convince Jesus to change His mind through persistent prayer; rather, it's the persistence to seek the Holy Spirit which is explained next.

Verses 9-13 (Holy Spirit)

Now we get to the last portion which I believe is the culmination of the two inter-related lessons from above. That is the highest, most supreme, most valuable gift a Christian can have after salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit for preparing them for the ministry, although the Holy Spirit is the One who reveals Christ to a new born believer and dwells in them. The Holy Spirit is often neglected, misunderstood, misinterpreted, and does not enjoy the "communion" of the believers that He deserves. He is the third person in the Trinity and is God equal in might and humble as Jesus. Yet, many do not understand Him and resort to human efforts for doing His work. Here are three fundamental way to find the Holy Spirit based on our passages of study. Let's look at each one of them:

1)Ask - When a believer comes to know Christ; their acceptance of Jesus as their Lord and Savior is a direct response to the revelation that the Holy Spirit gave them in their hearts. The result of that is true and genuine repentance. However, after their salvation they need the baptism of the Holy Spirit to empower them to do the work of the Lord including praying effectively. This power does not require loud music; rather a simple laying on of hands as seen in Acts 19:1-10 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+19%3A1-10&version=NASB) to enable believers to do the Lord's work on earth. Even the laying on of hands is not required but my point being one does not need to resort to drumming up of musical instruments to create the baptism and it is completely contrary to the scriptures. Speaking in tongues, speaking with boldness, prophecy are some of the evidences of the baptism of the Holy Spirit documented in the Bible and I believe they are still in existence even today. It's not man made and rather it is a gift of God.

2)Seek - Once a believer receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit the next stage is to seek His will, guidance, and equally important the specific gift granted to a believer for equipping the saints for the "work of service" as seen in Ephesians 4:1-16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+4%3A1-16&version=NASB).This has more intensity than asking as we are consciously aware of our need of the Holy Spirit because without Him we can do nothing John 5:30 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+5%3A30&version=NASB).

3)Knock - By now a believer has asked and received, sought and found, and is ready to live with the Holy Spirit on regular basis also known as having communion or fellowship with Him (2 Corinthians 13:14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+13%3A14&version=NASB)). A mature Christian lives, operates, serves, and is most effective when they are in constant fellowship with the Holy Spirit. Knocking means you are entering into a house where the visitor is interacting with house owner in so many ways i.e. fellowship, having a meal with them, sharing thoughts and ideas, etc. Similarly, once you are in constant communion with the Holy Spirit your prayer and ministry is the most effective and you can even rejoice in the Spirit as Jesus did. God's will in your lives will be fully fulfilled.

In conclusion I believe in these passage the Lord is teaching the disciples something greater as they were wanting to learn something small, yet significant, as prayer. However, the Lord had the greatest gift in mind to grant them, the Holy Spirit. Jesus demonstrates the vastness of His generosity by not only teaching them the lesson of prayer but teaching them to direct their prayers towards asking, seeking, and desiring the greatest gift, Holy Spirit, as that was His key to living a holy and an effective life while on earth fulfilling every single task given to Him by His Father. We have the same privileges.

I hope this helps each one us in our prayer life and catapults us to a level where we see ourselves completely dependent on the Father for everything, empowered by the Holy Spirit to do His work, and rejoicing in the intercessory role Jesus played to make all this a reality in our lives.

Diggindeeper
Sep 21st 2014, 10:58 PM
This study has been reviewed by the staff and it will now be opened and moved to Bible Chat. This subject is bound to draw discussion and perhaps even debate. That makes it fit best in Bible Chat rather than Bible Study.

keck553
Sep 21st 2014, 11:38 PM
Jesus prayer is a shortened (and personallized) version of the Jewish Amidah; which was prayed by the Temple priests daiily, prayed while standing.

But more importantly, He's saying to pray like priests

It was divided into three sections; praise, petition and thanks-giving.

Here it is (with some variences)

"My L-rd, open my lips, and my mouth shall declare Your praise.
Blessed are You, L-rd our G‑d and G‑d of our fathers, G‑d of Abraham, G‑d of Isaac and G‑d of Jacob, the great, mighty and awesome G‑d, exalted G‑d, who bestows bountiful kindness, who creates all things, who remembers the piety of the Patriarchs, and who, in love, brings a redeemer to their children's children, for the sake of His Name.

O King, (You are) a helper, a savior and a shield. Blessed are You L-rd, Shield of Abraham.

You are mighty forever, my L-rd; You resurrect the dead; You are powerful to save.

You are holy and Your Name is holy, and holy beings praise You daily for all eternity. Blessed are You L-rd, the holy G‑d. (During the Ten Days of Penitence substitute: the holy King.)

You graciously bestow knowledge upon man and teach mortals understanding. Graciously bestow upon us from You, wisdom, understanding and knowledge. Blessed are You L-rd, who graciously bestows knowledge.

Cause us to return, our Father, to Your Torah; draw us near, our King, to Your service; and bring us back to You in whole-hearted repentance. Blessed are You L-rd, who desires penitence.

Pardon us, our Father, for we have sinned; forgive us, our King, for we have transgressed; for You are a good and forgiving G‑d. Blessed are You L-rd, gracious One who pardons abundantly.

O behold our affliction and wage our battle; redeem us speedily for the sake of Your Name, for You G‑d are the mighty redeemer. Blessed are You L-rd, Redeemer of Israel.

Heal us, O L-rd, and we will be healed; help us and we will be saved; for You are our praise. Grant complete cure and healing to all our wounds; for You, Almighty King, are a faithful and merciful healer. Blessed are You L-rd, who heals the sick of His people Israel.

Bless for us, L-rd our G‑d, this year and all the varieties of its produce for good; and bestow upon the face of the earth. Satisfy us from Your bounty and bless our year like other good years, for blessing; for You are a generous G‑d who bestows goodness and blesses the years. Blessed are You L-rd, who blesses the years.

Sound the great shofar for our freedom; raise a banner to gather our exiles, and bring us together from the four corners of the earth into our land. Blessed are You L-rd, who gathers the dispersed of His people Israel.

Restore our judges as in former times, and our counsellors as of yore; remove from us sorrow and sighing, and reign over us, You alone, O L-rd, with kindness and compassion, with righteousness and justice. Blessed are You L-rd, King who loves righteousness and justice.

May Your mercies be aroused, L-rd our G‑d, upon the righteous, upon the pious, upon the elders of Your people, the House of Israel, upon the remnant of their sages, upon the righteous proselytes and upon us. Grant ample reward to all who truly trust in Your Name, and place our lot among them; may we never be disgraced, for we have put our trust in You. Blessed are You Lord.

Return in mercy to Jerusalem Your city and dwell therein as You have promised; speedily establish therein the throne of David Your servant, and rebuild it, soon in our days, as an everlasting edifice. Blessed are You L-rd, who rebuilds Jerusalem. Speedily cause the scion of David Your servant to flourish, and increase his power by Your salvation, for we hope for Your salvation all day. Blessed are You L-rd, who causes the power of salvation to flourish.

Hear our voice, L-rd our G‑d; merciful Father, have compassion upon us and accept our prayers in mercy and favor, for You are G‑d who hears prayers and supplications; do not turn us away empty-handed from You, our King, for You hear the prayer of everyone. Blessed are You L-rd, who hears prayer.

Look with favor, L-rd our G‑d, on Your people Israel and pay heed to their prayer; restore the service to Your Sanctuary and accept with love and favor Israel's fire-offerings and prayer; and may the service of Your people Israel always find favor.

May our eyes behold Your return to Zion in mercy. Blessed are You L-rd, who restores His Divine Presence to Zion.

We thankfully acknowledge that You are the L-rd our G‑d and G‑d of our fathers forever. You are the strength of our life, the shield of our salvation in every generation. We will give thanks to You and recount Your praise, evening, morning and noon, for our lives which are committed into Your hand, for our souls which are entrusted to You, for Your miracles which are with us daily, and for Your continual wonders and beneficences. You are the Beneficent One, for Your mercies never cease; the Merciful One, for Your kindnesses never end; for we always place our hope in You.

And for all these, may Your Name, our King, be continually blessed, exalted and extolled forever and all time.

nd all living things shall forever thank You, and praise Your great Name eternally, for You are good. G‑d, You are our everlasting salvation and help, O benevolent G‑d. Blessed are You L-rd, Beneficent is Your Name, and to You it is fitting to offer thanks.
Bestow peace, goodness and blessing, life, graciousness, kindness and mercy, upon us and upon all Your people Israel. Bless us, our Father, all of us as one, with the light of Your countenance. For by the light of Your countenance You gave us, L-rd our G‑d, the Torah of life and loving-kindness, righteousness, blessing, mercy, life and peace. May it be favorable in Your eyes to bless Your people Israel, at all times and at every moment, with Your peace.

Blessed are You L-rd, who blesses His people Israel with peace. May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable before You, L-rd, my Strength and my Redeemer.

My G‑d, guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking deceitfully. Let my soul be silent to those who curse me; let my soul be as dust to all. Open my heart to Your Torah, and let my soul eagerly pursue Your commandments. As for all those who plot evil against me, hasten to annul their counsel and frustrate their design. Let them be as chaff before the wind; let the angel of the L-rd thrust them away. That Your beloved ones may be delivered, help with Your right hand and answer me. Do it for the sake of Your Name; do it for the sake of Your right hand; do it for the sake of Your Torah; do it for the sake of Your holiness. May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable before You, L-rd, my Strength and my Redeemer.

Daniel Dwayne Sizemore
Sep 24th 2014, 03:37 PM
You make some excellent points but there is something to be said for repeatly prayer and fasting. (For Example)>Matthew15:22 And, behold , a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying , Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil . 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying , Send her away ; for she crieth after us. 24 But he answered and said , I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying , Lord, help me. 26 But he answered and said , It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27 And she said , Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt . And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
At first Jesus didn't even respond to the woman (vs 23) and his disciples said "send her away; for she criers after us.";it doesn't say but I'm thinking that she must've "cried out" a lot to aggravate his men so. And ignoring her didn't phase her in the least. Then Jesus said a strange thing in my opinion (vs 28) "Jesus answered" and basically called her a dog, and the women didn't get offend, she didnt "storm off" like a lot of us would have, she just responded graciously. (Vs27) even the dogs get the crumbs from the masters table(Vs28)" Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith:" and he answered her request. now my Lord Jesus isn't rude or mean He just wanted to make a point, when you don't get a answer, don't quit asking, if the answer isn't the one you want to here, don't quit asking, if it's not a monetary gain, and it's something from the heart, have Faith enough to keep Knocking,Seeking, and you will find!

Again Matt.15:30 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them: 31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered , when they saw the dumb to speak , the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk , and the blind to see : and they glorified the God of Israel. 32 Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said , [/U[U]]I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat :

I draw your attention to verse 32, it really sounds like he healed these people because they had went without eating, or fasted for 3 days, one could say Jesus was referring to feeding them farther down the script but I truly believe the former.
Just a few thoughts and again I enjoyed you thoughts.
God bless you in His Name Jesus!
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breadfirst
Sep 27th 2014, 06:52 PM
Daniel,

Brother, I wanted to point out that the woman from Canaan is not a story regarding persistence; rather, it's a story that demonstrates the inclusion of the Gentiles into the promises of God to Abraham. We have to look at God's overall character and determine if He changes His position which we know He doesn't. I know there maybe a handful of other passages that may seem to offer that idea including Jonah's story in Nineveh.

I believe Jesus is teaching the disciples that the gospel is ALSO meant for the Gentiles as long as they are needy. Needy meaning wanting forgiveness. healing, hope, etc. The dialog in the verses seem to indicate otherwise but Jesus uses this style often in other passages including the feeding of the 4000 that you mentioned. Here again He tells His disciples to send them away knowing all along He is able to feed them but it evokes a response from the disciples that shows the limited faith and belief they had which means we have the potential to repeat that same unbelief.

For me to say that God's mind can be changed through persistent prayer is false teaching. If we could then we do NOT need the covenant given to the Israelites; I could persist one for myself.

The persistence that I am referring to in my study is the need for the Holy Spirit in literally everything we do during our brief stay on earth. We often fall to the demands of our flesh therefore we need to constantly ask, seek, and knock for His power, will, wisdom, and discernment to be most effective for His kingdom. It's not a chant or a workup but a sincere desire while admitting our weaknesses. The Holy Spirit is gentle and does not over power you unless you yield. The persistence allows us to see the areas we need to yield because we are seeking His will.

On the note regarding the fasting and the feeding of the multitude I believe the single most truth that stands out there for me is showing the supremacy of Christ as God who is able to provide food for 4000 in the wilderness and His compassion. It also shows with limited resources we have He can do a lot with it for His kingdom. He is interested in our desire to bring that little to Him in faith. Whether He healed them because they went without food for days, we may be reading too much into scripture in my opinion.

I always found it helpful to understand the overall character and nature of God before interpreting a verse.

Hope this helps.

JohnN
Nov 10th 2015, 08:42 PM
Daniel,

Brother, I wanted to point out that the woman from Canaan is not a story regarding persistence; rather, it's a story that demonstrates the inclusion of the Gentiles into the promises of God to Abraham. We have to look at God's overall character and determine if He changes His position which we know He doesn't. I know there maybe a handful of other passages that may seem to offer that idea including Jonah's story in Nineveh.

I believe Jesus is teaching the disciples that the gospel is ALSO meant for the Gentiles as long as they are needy. Needy meaning wanting forgiveness. healing, hope, etc. The dialog in the verses seem to indicate otherwise but Jesus uses this style often in other passages including the feeding of the 4000 that you mentioned. Here again He tells His disciples to send them away knowing all along He is able to feed them but it evokes a response from the disciples that shows the limited faith and belief they had which means we have the potential to repeat that same unbelief.

For me to say that God's mind can be changed through persistent prayer is false teaching. If we could then we do NOT need the covenant given to the Israelites; I could persist one for myself.

The persistence that I am referring to in my study is the need for the Holy Spirit in literally everything we do during our brief stay on earth. We often fall to the demands of our flesh therefore we need to constantly ask, seek, and knock for His power, will, wisdom, and discernment to be most effective for His kingdom. It's not a chant or a workup but a sincere desire while admitting our weaknesses. The Holy Spirit is gentle and does not over power you unless you yield. The persistence allows us to see the areas we need to yield because we are seeking His will.

On the note regarding the fasting and the feeding of the multitude I believe the single most truth that stands out there for me is showing the supremacy of Christ as God who is able to provide food for 4000 in the wilderness and His compassion. It also shows with limited resources we have He can do a lot with it for His kingdom. He is interested in our desire to bring that little to Him in faith. Whether He healed them because they went without food for days, we may be reading too much into scripture in my opinion.

I always found it helpful to understand the overall character and nature of God before interpreting a verse.

Hope this helps.

Jesus totally blew the lady off. I would agree that it is a story of persistence, as well as showing the disciples that the Gentiles are to be included in Jesus' salvation. The only way the woman got her daughter saved was by persisting. When his disciples urge Him to send the lady away, He answered them "i was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Could it be that this woman, a Canaanite, is a lost sheep of the house of Israel? She persists, as we aught, and the Lord hears her faith and responds. None of us deserve to be heard or considered by our Lord, and we wouldn't be unless we had truly accepted Him as Savior.

Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.