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grams
Nov 12th 2014, 05:04 PM
Cor. 4:


Cor. 4:
3
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



I had never given that a thought !

Years ago I was lost ! The church I belonged to did not give the gospel
correctly !
We had to save our self . So I felt I was going to hell for 50 years.

What is your idea on this all ?

birdy
Nov 13th 2014, 06:01 AM
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Notice that Christ is the 'image of God'. When men try to build Christ in their own way, rather realizing it is Christ who does the building, the result is a false image. We read about this in parable language in Rev 13:14, "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live." Many people read the Bible in a surface way and think that this means that some sort of statue or physical construction will be erected as an image and will be an object of worship. However, this is not really what is being said. What is being said is that religions can be built by man and claim to be the image of Christ, but they are not. Only Christ is the image of God, and he makes his own true believers to be conformed to that true image.

everykneeshallbow
Nov 13th 2014, 08:54 AM
Cor. 4:


Cor. 4:
3
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



I had never given that a thought !

Years ago I was lost ! The church I belonged to did not give the gospel
correctly !
We had to save our self . So I felt I was going to hell for 50 years.

What is your idea on this all ?
In what you just described, it seems that Satan, "the god of this world", used religion to blind you from seeing Christ and if we look at the fuller context of your "quote", then this is what is actually being described. We read:

II Corinthians chapter 3

[1] Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
[2] Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
[3] Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
[4] And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5] Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[6] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
[12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
[16] Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
[17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[18] But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

II Corinthians chapter 4

[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
[2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
[3] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
[4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[5] For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
[6] For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
[7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

In what we just read, Paul contrasted the Old Testament law which he called "the ministration of death" and "the ministration of condemnation" with the New Testament of which he himself was a "minister" which he called "the ministration of the Spirit" (and "the Spirit gives life" so it contrasts the "the ministration of death") and "the ministration of righteousness". He also spoke of the "liberty" which comes through the New Testament and he elsewhere in his epistles repeatedly contrasted the same with the "bondage" (to sin) which comes to those who seek to be justified by the law. Anyhow, in so doing, he referred his readers back to the Exodus account where Moses, having gone up to the mount to receive the 10 Commandments for the second time, had to cover his face with a veil (KJV, "vail") after having had God pass before Him and after having communed with the LORD for forty days and forty nights. Here's the tail end of that account:

Exodus chapter 34

[28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
[29] And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
[30] And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
[31] And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
[32] And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
[33] And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
[34] But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
[35] And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

When "Moses' face shone", in type, this represented the very same "light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God" or the very same "light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" of which Paul spoke. IOW, the law was NOT intended to save anybody, as it cannot, but it was intended to point its hearers to "Christ, who is the image of God", that they might be saved. Those Israelites/Jews of Moses' day as well as many Israelites/Jews of today who sought/seek to be justified by the law are, figuratively speaking, still "blinded" (by religion which Satan frequently uses to blind the minds of people from actually seeing Christ) from seeing Moses' shining face, in type, which, again, points directly to "the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God". Should they turn to Christ for salvation, then, figuratively speaking, the veil will be removed from Moses' face and they will be able to see Christ's glory which is what Moses' shining face pointed to in type.

Hopefully, this helps.

birdy
Nov 13th 2014, 09:57 AM
I enjoyed the things posted by everykneeshallbow. I think it is important to realize that the law is the entire Bible. The verses quoted by everykneeshallbow should not be taken to mean that the Old Testament of the Bible (Genesis to Malachi) is inferior and that the New Testament of the Bible (Matthew to Rev) is superior. Rather, the entire Bible is an old testament to anyone who is prevented from grasping the gospel by reading it, prevented by the god of this world (who blinds them) from belief in Christ. Instead, the reality of Christ is revealed by God's spirit and that is the new ministry, the new covenant. As it says in II Cor 3:6 quoted above ("Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.). When this verse talks about the new testament it is not talking about Matthew to Revelation in the Bible. That is what men call the New Testament these days. It is not talking about the letter or epistles or things written, but is talking instead about the spirit that can receive the gospel. I think that is what everykneeshallbow was saying, but not completely sure, so for clarification. It is possible, with the spirit of God, to understand the gospel by reading verses from any part of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. The gospel could be understood by reading Leviticus, for example. But the Spirit of God must give understanding. Just having the words, whether in ink or stone is of no value really. There must be God's spirit in the heart of the person (written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.). So, again, the new testament mentioned in II Cor 3:6 is not talking about the Bible from Matthew to Revelation (that New Testament). Rather, it is talking about the ministry of the spirit of God being alive in people.

everykneeshallbow
Nov 13th 2014, 10:10 AM
I enjoyed the things posted by everykneeshallbow. I think it is important to realize that the law is the entire Bible. The verses quoted by everykneeshallbow should not be taken to mean that the Old Testament of the Bible (Genesis to Malachi) is inferior and that the New Testament of the Bible (Matthew to Rev) is superior. Rather, the entire Bible is an old testament to anyone who is prevented from grasping the gospel by reading it, prevented by the god of this world (who blinds them) from belief in Christ. Instead, the reality of Christ is revealed by God's spirit and that is the new ministry, the new covenant. As it says in II Cor 3:6 quoted above ("Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.). When this verse talks about the new testament it is not talking about Matthew to Revelation in the Bible. That is what men call the New Testament these days. It is not talking about the letter or epistles or things written, but is talking instead about the spirit that can receive the gospel. I think that is what everykneeshallbow was saying, but not completely sure, so for clarification. It is possible, with the spirit of God, to understand the gospel by reading verses from any part of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. The gospel could be understood by reading Leviticus, for example. But the Spirit of God must give understanding. Just having the words, whether in ink or stone is of no value really. There must be God's spirit in the heart of the person (written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.). So, again, the new testament mentioned in II Cor 3:6 is not talking about the Bible from Matthew to Revelation (that New Testament). Rather, it is talking about the ministry of the spirit of God being alive in people.
Hi, birdy.

I definitely agree with you that Christ can be found all throughout the pages of the Bible and that most certainly includes the Old Testament which comprises somewhere around 75% of our Bibles in relation to volume. It has been said (I'm paraphrasing) that "The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed and the Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed" and I agree. IOW, the "New" Testament isn't really "new" in the sense that it was previously contained in the Old Testament and basically everything in the New Testament is a fulfillment of that which had already been written in the Old Testament. Anyhow, that was just to clarify my own position.

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." (Luke 24:25-27)

"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures," (Luke 24:44-45)

Etc., etc., etc...

grams
Nov 13th 2014, 11:38 AM
Cor. 4:


Cor. 4:
3
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



I had never given that a thought !

Years ago I was lost ! The church I belonged to did not give the gospel
correctly !
We had to save our self . So I felt I was going to hell for 50 years.

What is your idea on this all ?


I forgot to mention one other thing !
We were not told to get or use a bible !

IF they would have at least I could have read it !

BroRog
Nov 14th 2014, 04:44 PM
Cor. 4:


Cor. 4:
3
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



I had never given that a thought !

Years ago I was lost ! The church I belonged to did not give the gospel
correctly !
We had to save our self . So I felt I was going to hell for 50 years.

What is your idea on this all ?

There are at least two ways to be "lost". I could be lost at sea, for instance, which would mean I died while on the sea, never to return. Or I could be lost in town, unable to find my way to my desired destination. When Paul talks about the fact that the Gospel is hid from the "lost", I think he means it is hid from those who are unable to find it. They aren't dead or lost to us. They can still find the truth if only they had someone to show them the way.

The god of this world uses lies, deception, tricks, manipulation, propaganda, and all sorts of things in order to keep someone from learning the truth. I'm glad to hear that you finally gained access to the truth and were able to find your way to it through reading the Bible for yourself. Praise the Lord. You were lost, but not dead. You needed a map and you got one. Thank God.

Bible_Preacher
Nov 14th 2014, 07:03 PM
It is possible, with the spirit of God, to understand the gospel by reading verses from any part of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. The gospel could be understood by reading Leviticus, for example. .

The gospel Paul is preaching was not around at the time of Abraham (Galatians 3:8: "And the scripture, forseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.") For the sake of clarification, there are multiple gospels mentioned in the Bible and they don't match. There's the everlasting gospel in Revelation 14:6. There's the gospel that the twelve spies had in Numbers (Hebrew 4:1-2). There's the gospel of the kingdom in Matthew 4:23. You have the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. What is told to someone as the way to heaven in Matthew is not what Paul is preaching in the Pauline Epistles. Someone asked Jesus how to get eternal life and Jesus said "keep the commandments." That's completely different than when the Bible says under paul, "For by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." ) Galatians 2:16b This is of course because that what Jesus said in Matthew is before the cross and Paul is after the cross. What you want is the gospel that Paul is talking about, his gospel. This is the one mentioned in Romans 2:16, 16:25, Galatians 1:11 etc. Remember in the passage we're looking at he calls the gospel "our gospel." That's the one you want. He says that if an angel from heaven preaches another gospel, different than the one he preached, then let that person be accursed. What gospel did Paul preach? The one in I Corinthians 15:1-4, namely the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Further clarification is given throughout his writings (called "scripture" by Peter), such as in Romans 9:9,10--you can't work for it.

I just wanted to clarify what the gospel is that we're talking about. It's specific. It's so specific that if you have a different one, the Bible puts a curse on you (Galatians 1)