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View Full Version : Discussion Thaddaeus or Judas (Jude) or both?



JustinMT
Dec 24th 2014, 07:51 AM
The 12 Apostles are listed in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Matthew and Mark use the same 12 names, but Luke uses Jude (same as Judas, but not Judas Iscariot) instead of Thaddaeus.

My thought is that Luke's account of who the 12 Apostles were took place at a different point in time than the accounts of Matthew and Mark. The time dissonance allowed for one Apostle to replace the other for whatever reason (death, apostasy, etc.) After all, there are 72 Apostles mentioned later on in Luke so it is safe to say that there were 12 primary Apostles plus more Apostles.

Are there any reasons to think these three accounts do in fact refer to the same event [in time]?

Is there any reason to think that Jude & Thaddaeus are two names for one person?

clarkthompson
Dec 24th 2014, 03:12 PM
I think they are the same person but if not I think it would have been because of death because I do not think Christ would have chosen someone who would fall away.

David Taylor
Dec 24th 2014, 04:23 PM
Alot of the '12 disciples' or anyone at that time, had many different names.

Some of the reason was because the area of Israel was under the influence of many empires with many languages.

Jesus' titulas (sign over the cross) was written in Greek, Hebrew, and Latin...all common languages.

Aramaic was another much of the NT references, and the common tongue.

We have examples like:
Simon, Peter, Cephas, Barjona = all the same guy, just with different names.

John ane James Zebedee, also Boanerges, Sons of Thunder.
Joseph, Barsabas, Justus.
Jesus, Christ, Immanuel.
Thomas, Didymus.
Tabitha, Dorcas.
Simon, Zelotes.
Matthew, Levi.
Simeon, Niger.
Golgotha, Calvary.

Slug1
Dec 24th 2014, 04:41 PM
I think they are the same person but if not I think it would have been because of death because I do not think Christ would have chosen someone who would fall away.The Word of God is pretty clear... Jesus did choose Judas and he did fall away.

divaD
Dec 24th 2014, 05:30 PM
The 12 Apostles are listed in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Matthew and Mark use the same 12 names, but Luke uses Jude (same as Judas, but not Judas Iscariot) instead of Thaddaeus.

My thought is that Luke's account of who the 12 Apostles were took place at a different point in time than the accounts of Matthew and Mark. The time dissonance allowed for one Apostle to replace the other for whatever reason (death, apostasy, etc.) After all, there are 72 Apostles mentioned later on in Luke so it is safe to say that there were 12 primary Apostles plus more Apostles.

Are there any reasons to think these three accounts do in fact refer to the same event [in time]?

Is there any reason to think that Jude & Thaddaeus are two names for one person?

Can you provide the books, chapters, and verses all these passages in question are found in? You're obviously using a different translation than I am. When I do a word search for 'Jude', my translation only comes up with one hit, that being Jude 1:1.

JustinMT
Dec 25th 2014, 12:51 AM
Can you provide the books, chapters, and verses all these passages in question are found in? You're obviously using a different translation than I am. When I do a word search for 'Jude', my translation only comes up with one hit, that being Jude 1:1.

Luke 6:13-16
13 And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles: 14 Simon, whom He also named Peter, and Andrew his brother; and [h]James and John; and Philip and Bartholomew; 15 and Matthew and Thomas; James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot; 16 Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

Mark3:14-19
14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach, 15 and to have authority to cast out the demons. 16 And He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom He gave the name Peter), 17 and [d]James, the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of [e]James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, “Sons of Thunder”); 18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and [f]James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the [g]Zealot; 19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him.

Matt 10:1-4
1 Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and [a]James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and [c]Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; [d]James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the [e]Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.

You'll notice that Jude is not listed in the verses above. I did a quick search on the internet and read that Judas (not Iscariot) is sometime referred to as Jude to distinguish him from Judas Iscariot - this may have been in error. From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jude_the_Apostle:
Jude is clearly distinguished from Judas Iscariot, another apostle and later the betrayer of Jesus. [B]Both "Jude" and "Judas" are translations of the name Ιούδας in the Greek original New Testament, which in turn is a Greek variant of Judah (Y'hudah), a name which was common among Jews at the time.

chad
Dec 26th 2014, 06:25 PM
Mt 10:2-4 (KJV)

(Mat 10:2 KJV) Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

(Mat 10:3 KJV) Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

(Mat 10:4 KJV) Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Hezekiah Holbrooke
Dec 26th 2014, 07:22 PM
Jude or Judas or Judah (not the Judas who betrayed the Christ) was one of the four brothers or half-brothers of Jesus.