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chad
Apr 24th 2015, 11:41 PM
The deception of Satan

We know that Satan deceived both Adam and Eve and they sinned by eating fruit from the tree of knowledge (Genesis 3).

But Satan also went and deceived the world in the OT through the worship of false Gods and the worship of idols and even NT and today in the world we live.

Satan even deceives some people (Atheists) to believe there is no God, but even the demons believe there is one true God and they shudder.


Hosts of Heaven (Starry Hosts) - In the OT, it writes of the hosts of heaven.

(2 Ki 17:16 KJV) And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.

Groove H842. 'asherah, ash-ay-raw'; or 'asheyrah, ash-ay-raw'; from H833; happy; Asherah (or Astarte) a Phoenician goddess; also an image of the same:--grove. Comp. H6253.

Hosts H6635. tsaba', tsaw-baw'; or (fem.) tseba'ah, tseb-aw-aw'; from H6633; a mass of persons (or fig. things), espec. reg. organized for war (an army); by impl. a campaign, lit. or fig. (spec. hardship, worship):--appointed time, (+) army, (+) battle, company, host, service, soldiers, waiting upon, war (-fare).

Heaven H8064. shamayim, shaw-mah'-yim; dual of an unused sing. shameh, shaw-meh'; from an unused root mean. to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perh. alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve):--air, X astrologer, heaven (-s).

Baal H1168. Ba'al, bah'-al; the same as H1167; Baal, a Phoenician deity:--Baal, [plur.] Baalim.


And in the NT - Paul writes of the power of the air

(Eph 2:2 KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

And Johns book of Revelation writes about the deception of satan

(Rev 9:20 NIV) The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk.

(Rev 16:14 NIV) They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.



The question I would like to ask is, do you think the starry hosts(NIV)/Hosts of Heaven (KJV) are fallen angels (Demons)?

And when Paul writes in Ephesians 2:2 of the spirits of the air – is he referring to fallen angels (Demons)?

LandShark
Apr 25th 2015, 01:51 PM
The question I would like to ask is, do you think the starry hosts(NIV)/Hosts of Heaven (KJV) are fallen angels (Demons)?

And when Paul writes in Ephesians 2:2 of the spirits of the air – is he referring to fallen angels (Demons)?

Greetings Chad. I think the hosts of heaven in 2 Kings 17 is the sun, moon, and stars. If you look up "host of heaven" and see how it is used in other places you'll see it CAN be speaking about fallen one, but more often then not is speaking of the luminaries. And this is one place where history helps us too as most all ancient cultures worshiped the sun, moon, and stars. Saying that brother, I would add that behind the worship of the heavenlies would be spiritual forces influencing people to direct their worship in that direction. So there is a connection to the fallen ones even if the verse is speaking about the luminaries themselves. Blessings!

percho
Apr 25th 2015, 08:09 PM
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Does one who is deceived, know he is deceived?

Could any of the great theological fathers have been deceived and not have known so, even unto us thinking they were right, not knowing we also are deceived?

chad
Apr 25th 2015, 11:15 PM
Yes, I would have to agree. In some verses, the word host of heaven could be reffered to as planets with a spiritual power behind them.

Behind false idols are demons. The worship of created things like the moon, star and sun is the worship of something created by God, it is not the worship of the one true God – that is the deception or where people are led astray.

In Deuteronomy 4:19 God gave commandments not to worship the sun, moon or stars.

Deuteronomy 4:19 - And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars – all the heavenly array – do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshipping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.


The Hebrew translation of the word heaven in 2 Ki 17:16 could refer to the heaven or astrologer. Astrology is common in modern day society and people turn to astrology instead of God, which is the deception. I would not be surprised if there is a demonic spiritual force behind Astrology, similar to demonic powers behind idols and false Gods mentioned in the bible.

Heaven H8064. shamayim, shaw-mah'-yim; dual of an unused sing. shameh, shaw-meh'; from an unused root mean. to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perh. alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve):--air, X astrologer, heaven (-s).




Greetings Chad. I think the hosts of heaven in 2 Kings 17 is the sun, moon, and stars. If you look up "host of heaven" and see how it is used in other places you'll see it CAN be speaking about fallen one, but more often then not is speaking of the luminaries. And this is one place where history helps us too as most all ancient cultures worshiped the sun, moon, and stars. Saying that brother, I would add that behind the worship of the heavenlies would be spiritual forces influencing people to direct their worship in that direction. So there is a connection to the fallen ones even if the verse is speaking about the luminaries themselves. Blessings!

chad
Apr 26th 2015, 10:14 PM
Not all paths lead to God, as some religions claim. Some paths lead to mute idols and demons.

When Jesus was on earth, those who rejected him also rejected God, for he was the son of God. Those on earth today who reject Jesus, reject God – because Jesus is the son of God, who is in heaven.

(John 14:6 NIV) Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

(John 14:7 NIV) If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

(John 14:8 NIV) Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

(John 14:9 NIV) Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

(John 14:10 NIV) Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

(John 14:11 NIV) Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

LandShark
Apr 27th 2015, 11:38 AM
shâmayim can mean many things.... heaven is always called shâmayim. But it can be the sky, it can be speaking of celestial bodies like the sun, moon, and stars (and other planets). But where Strong's gives the indication of astrology, Brown Driver Briggs (an abridged version of Gesenius) does not. It states:

BDB Definition:
1) heaven, heavens, sky
1a) visible heavens, sky
1a1) as abode of the stars
1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc
1b) Heaven (as the abode of God)

I wouldn't personally assume that "host of heaven" is referring to fallen angels or astrologers, but to the object themselves. It is natural in this fallen state that without the influence of God to look at the sun, feel the warmth, understand that without it crops don't grow, and mistake it as a god. But we don't have to dissect the Hebrew to see the folly of man today. We elevate as gods, most of the time unknowingly, movie stars, sports stars, music stars, and more. Our "trap" is that we are sheep... designed to follow God but often following others who excel in this life of flesh. Rather sad but to one degree or another, we all have elevated somebody above a status they deserve. I think Hank Aaron was my first... I was 8 when he broke Babe Ruth's home run record. :)

New Creature
Apr 27th 2015, 01:00 PM
shâmayim can mean many things.... heaven is always called shâmayim. But it can be the sky, it can be speaking of celestial bodies like the sun, moon, and stars (and other planets). But where Strong's gives the indication of astrology, Brown Driver Briggs (an abridged version of Gesenius) does not. It states:

BDB Definition:
1) heaven, heavens, sky
1a) visible heavens, sky
1a1) as abode of the stars
1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc
1b) Heaven (as the abode of God)

I wouldn't personally assume that "host of heaven" is referring to fallen angels or astrologers, but to the object themselves. It is natural in this fallen state that without the influence of God to look at the sun, feel the warmth, understand that without it crops don't grow, and mistake it as a god. But we don't have to dissect the Hebrew to see the folly of man today. We elevate as gods, most of the time unknowingly, movie stars, sports stars, music stars, and more. Our "trap" is that we are sheep... designed to follow God but often following others who excel in this life of flesh. Rather sad but to one degree or another, we all have elevated somebody above a status they deserve. I think Hank Aaron was my first... I was 8 when he broke Babe Ruth's home run record. :)

NASA Astrophysicist Data System has a .pdf file on The Image which Fell Down from Jupiter - C. C. Wylie And J. R. Naiden, University of Iowa, September 2, 1936. It’s a commentary on Acts 19:35: “And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana [Latin], and of the image which fell down from Jupiter? (KJV)” They examined the evidence of classical languages, archaeology, and astronomy: “In conclusion, we have found that the Greek word 'diopetes' indicates literally a tradition that the object of worship fell from heaven.” The ESV reflects their wording: “And when the town clerk had quieted the crowd, he said, "Men of Ephesus, who is there who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is temple keeper of the great Artemis [Greek], and of the sacred stone that fell from the sky?”

Was Demetrius more zealous for the pure worship of Artemis or was the whole episode more about the love of money? Chad said, “Not all paths lead to God, as some religions claim. Some paths lead to mute idols and demons” and to the love of money – the most sacred of all American Idols.

LandShark
Apr 27th 2015, 01:04 PM
NASA Astrophysicist Data System has a .pdf file on The Image which Fell Down from Jupiter - C. C. Wylie And J. R. Naiden, University of Iowa, September 2, 1936. It’s a commentary on Acts 19:35: “And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana [Latin], and of the image which fell down from Jupiter? (KJV)” They examined the evidence of classical languages, archaeology, and astronomy: “In conclusion, we have found that the Greek word 'diopetes' indicates literally a tradition that the object of worship fell from heaven.” The ESV reflects their wording: “And when the town clerk had quieted the crowd, he said, "Men of Ephesus, who is there who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is temple keeper of the great Artemis [Greek], and of the sacred stone that fell from the sky?”

Was Demetrius more zealous for the pure worship of Artemis or was the whole episode more about the love of money? Chad said, “Not all paths lead to God, as some religions claim. Some paths lead to mute idols and demons” and to the love of money – the most sacred of all American Idols.

If it seems like I am taking a position opposed to Chad, I am not. I agree with the premise of his point. I am simply saying that the word shâmayim is a reference, many more times than not, to the sun, moon, and stars which CLEARLY have been objects of worship in the past. I was only trying to draw a line between the "Fallen ones" and "objects in space." Both can be worshiped, but they are separate and unique, not the same thing.

New Creature
Apr 27th 2015, 01:23 PM
If it seems like I am taking a position opposed to Chad, I am not. I agree with the premise of his point. I am simply saying that the word shâmayim is a reference, many more times than not, to the sun, moon, and stars which CLEARLY have been objects of worship in the past. I was only trying to draw a line between the "Fallen ones" and "objects in space." Both can be worshiped, but they are separate and unique, not the same thing.

If it seemed like I seemed to seem that you seemed to be in seeming opposition to Chad, a whole lot of unnecessary seeming is seemingly going on.

LandShark
Apr 27th 2015, 01:26 PM
If it seemed like I seemed to seem that you seemed to be in seeming opposition to Chad, a whole lot of unnecessary seeming is seemingly going on.

I bet you made yourself laugh, didn't you? :D

Old man
Apr 27th 2015, 01:33 PM
I bet you made yourself laugh, didn't you? :D

It made me laugh. :lol:

chad
Apr 27th 2015, 08:14 PM
These two verses are better descriptions of the host of heaven as angels ...

(1 Ki 22:19 KJV) And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

(2 Chr 18:18 KJV) Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.

Sojourner
Apr 27th 2015, 09:18 PM
If it seemed like I seemed to seem that you seemed to be in seeming opposition to Chad, a whole lot of unnecessary seeming is seemingly going on.

This may seem to some to be an unseemly summation.....:spin:

chad
Apr 27th 2015, 09:59 PM
There is one verse in Kings that refers to the hosts of heaven as not the sun, moon and planets.

(2 Ki 23:5 KJV) And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.

Old man
Apr 27th 2015, 10:06 PM
There is one verse in Kings that refers to the hosts of heaven as not the sun, moon and planets.

(2 Ki 23:5 KJV) And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.

Actually the context could simply be that the host of heavens is regarding the stars that twinkle in the night sky (well ........ maybe not here in Bakersfield but certainly other places they do) and not angels. Just say'n the context could support that view.