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SeekFirstTheKingdom
Feb 6th 2016, 05:34 AM
In a recent thread about wisdom, some interesting opinions/views regarding king Solomon were brought up.

Some believe that he ended well, repented for his sins and that he is a child of the Most High while others claim that he ended as a wicked apostate child of the devil. Further, some believe that the book of Ecclesiastes can't be Holy Ghost inspired because it was authored by such a wicked man. Obviously, none of us can can judge the eternal fate of anybody, but if you are willing to share your opinion on the matter please do. I've seen good arguments made from either side with respect to this topic.

Stonesoffire
Feb 6th 2016, 07:49 PM
His conclusion is his testimony, is it not seek?

It's the way of a man to seek things of the world, but none can bring peace to the soul.

SeekFirstTheKingdom
Feb 7th 2016, 03:06 AM
His conclusion is his testimony, is it not seek?

It's the way of a man to seek things of the world, but none can bring peace to the soul.

Yeah, amen. One side of this argument says that Solomon repented for all of his sins and wayward ways, that his final sentiment was recorded in Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all. For God will bring every work into judgment,Including every secret thing, Whether good or evil.

There are however just as many (if not more) folks who believe that the scriptures clearly indicate that Solomon's end was that of a complete apostate wicked sell-out, and some even go to the extreme of saying that any scriptures authored by Solomon are not inspired of the Holy Ghost, because why would the LORD authorize such a treacherous apostate, etc. The mindset of this side of the argument is that Solomon never physically acted in repentance, by tearing down the idols and high-places that he endorsed while compromising his heart for the sake of his wives whose gods were not YHWH.

chad
Feb 7th 2016, 09:41 AM
At the start of his reign as king, Solomon asked God for wisdom and walked in the ways of God. He was blessed, but when he grew older, he married many foreign woman and had many concubines who worshiped false Gods. They turned Solomon's heart so he would also worship false Gods.

In the later part of his life, he lived a life in disobedience by having so many wives and concubines. Sin and Idolatry followed.

Solomon did evil in the eyes of God (1 Ki 11:6). He worshipped false Gods and made high places for them, burnt incense to them and offered sacrifices to their Gods (1 Ki 11:6-10) as God had forbidden him to do.

Even though he may have written the book of Eccelesiaties and written about repentance, the judgment of God still came on him.

Because of this, God judged Solomon by taking 10 tribes of Israel and giving it to an subordinate. For the sake of David, one tribe would remain and this would take place after Solomon's death.

So - he had Gods wisdom, but in his later years he turned away from God and lived a life of disobedience. He did not follow in the ways of God and forsook God. He sinned and the judgment of God fell on him.



In a recent thread about wisdom, some interesting opinions/views regarding king Solomon were brought up.

Some believe that he ended well, repented for his sins and that he is a child of the Most High while others claim that he ended as a wicked apostate child of the devil. Further, some believe that the book of Ecclesiastes can't be Holy Ghost inspired because it was authored by such a wicked man. Obviously, none of us can can judge the eternal fate of anybody, but if you are willing to share your opinion on the matter please do. I've seen good arguments made from either side with respect to this topic.

SeekFirstTheKingdom
Feb 7th 2016, 10:31 AM
At the start of his reign as king, Solomon asked God for wisdom and walked in the ways of God. He was blessed, but when he grew older, he married many foreign woman and had many concubines who worshiped false Gods. They turned Solomon's heart so he would also worship false Gods.

In the later part of his life, he lived a life in disobedience by having so many wives and concubines. Sin and Idolatry followed.

Solomon did evil in the eyes of God (1 Ki 11:6). He worshipped false Gods and made high places for them, burnt incense to them and offered sacrifices to their Gods (1 Ki 11:6-10) as God had forbidden him to do.

Even though he may have written the book of Eccelesiaties and written about repentance, the judgment of God still came on him.

Because of this, God judged Solomon by taking 10 tribes of Israel and giving it to an subordinate. For the sake of David, one tribe would remain and this would take place after Solomon's death.

So - he had Gods wisdom, but in his later years he turned away from God and lived a life of disobedience. He did not follow in the ways of God and forsook God. He sinned and the judgment of God fell on him.

Yeah, I certainly agree with every thing in your post. The question becomes whether or not Solomon was saved despite the judgment. Many believe that he was, with logic being something along the lines of 2 Corinthians 3:15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. It is also worth noting that although we do see Solomon mentioned in the NT, we don't see any warning mentions of him as an example of an apostate. That's not necessarily proving much of anything, but worth consideration. It really does end up being a matter of speculation either way.

The one argument that I've never heard until a couple of days ago (on this forum, in the wisdom thread), is that the scriptures authored by Solomon can't be Holy Spirit inspired and aren't canon because of Solomon's sins. What is the logic there? With that same logic, should anything Paul wrote (much of the NT) be scrutinized and discarded for the same reason? Solomon's path was sort of the contrast of Saul/Paul's, but the point remains. I just don't understand why scriptures authored by the Holy Ghost through the wisest man to live before Jesus, would be discredited through Solomon's sins. It's not like said scriptures encourage idolatry, or anything of the sort.

shepherdsword
Feb 7th 2016, 11:23 AM
There is something else to consider when contemplating Solomon's fate:


2 Sa 7:12-15
And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

SeekFirstTheKingdom
Feb 7th 2016, 11:50 AM
There is something else to consider when contemplating Solomon's fate:
2 Sa 7:12-15
And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

Amen, praise Jesus.

James 2:10-13 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

chad
Feb 7th 2016, 06:42 PM
Well, imo - it depends when Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes. Remember, God gave Solomon wisdom and blessings because of his father David.

In the book of Kings - it records that God appeared to Solomon twice during his lifetime, yet at the latter part of his life he became sinful and married many foreign wives, had concubines and turned away from God and worshipped other false Gods. In this way,He did evil in the sight of God.

Regarding the book of Ecclesiastes, if you believe that the word of God is inspired and everything in it OT & NT is there Because God has determined that is to be part of scripture, then how can you take the book of Ecclesiastes out of the OT?

Maybe the book of Ecclesiastes is there so we can learn, that even men of God, who have the blessings and wisdom of God in their life, if they disobey and forsake God in their life and do evil in the sight of God, they also will be judged for the good and evil that they do in their life.

(Eccl 12:13 KJV) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

(Eccl 12:14 KJV) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.




Yeah, I certainly agree with every thing in your post. The question becomes whether or not Solomon was saved despite the judgment. Many believe that he was, with logic being something along the lines of 2 Corinthians 3:15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. It is also worth noting that although we do see Solomon mentioned in the NT, we don't see any warning mentions of him as an example of an apostate. That's not necessarily proving much of anything, but worth consideration. It really does end up being a matter of speculation either way.

The one argument that I've never heard until a couple of days ago (on this forum, in the wisdom thread), is that the scriptures authored by Solomon can't be Holy Spirit inspired and aren't canon because of Solomon's sins. What is the logic there? With that same logic, should anything Paul wrote (much of the NT) be scrutinized and discarded for the same reason? Solomon's path was sort of the contrast of Saul/Paul's, but the point remains. I just don't understand why scriptures authored by the Holy Ghost through the wisest man to live before Jesus, would be discredited through Solomon's sins. It's not like said scriptures encourage idolatry, or anything of the sort.

Stonesoffire
Feb 7th 2016, 07:59 PM
What do you mean saved seek? He wouldn't be in heaven, but would be in Abraham's bosom, wouldn't he?

Not to take away from shepherdwords post. That was awesome!

SeekFirstTheKingdom
Feb 8th 2016, 02:12 AM
What do you mean saved seek? He wouldn't be in heaven, but would be in Abraham's bosom, wouldn't he?

Not to take away from shepherdwords post. That was awesome!

Yeah, sorry. I was just referring to his final destination, which when simplified is either eternal life or death/condemnation.

chad
Feb 8th 2016, 08:59 PM
If Solomon did repent, he did not remove the high places that he had built for other Gods (2 Kings 23:13).

Solomon had 700 wives 300 concubines. The OT does not record when he accumulated all these wives and concubines? Was it when he was building the temple for God and his own Palace or was it after?

The temple that Solomon built for God took 7 years (1 Kings 6:38). It took 13 Solomon 13 years to complete his own temple (1 Kings 7:1)? Solomon reigned for 40 years as King.


So, what was the point of Solomon building a temple to glorify God and his name, when Solomon didn’t keep the covenenant and commandments of God (1 Kings 11:10) and then went on to worship other Gods and build high places for them in the land? (1 Kings 11:6-11; 1 Kings 11:32-33). H

How does that glorify God and the temple that he spent 7 years building for God?


God never asked for David to build a temple for him (2 Samuel 7:5-6), but God still allowed it (2 Samuel 7:13).

As for the final judgment of Solomon (in terms of salvation), imo – it is best that it is left for God to judge.

JAG__
Feb 8th 2016, 10:03 PM
My position is that Solomon committed some serious sins, repented, was forgiven
like all we sinners, and became one of God's believing sons and is now in Heaven.

Here are some reasons why I believe that:

It strikes me as inconceivable that God would select one of Satan's goats to write
at least 49 chapters in his Book the Holy Bible. Imo, orthodox scholars agree that
Solomon wrote the first 29 chapters of Proverbs, all of Ecclesiastes, and all of the
Song of Solomon. That comes to 49 chapters.

Moreover, God specifically says about those 49 chapters that they were inspired by
God, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting
and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly
equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17

When Paul penned the words of 2 Tim. 3:16-16 he was referring specifically to the
Old Testament because the New Testament canon had not yet been formed by
the Providence of God. (As soon as it was formed up, then 2 Tim. 3:16-17 fully
applied to the New Testament just as it did to the Old Testament.)

Solomon is one of God's sheep now in Heaven, or he is one of Satan's goats now
in Hell.

Again, its simply inconceivable to my mind that God would allow one of Satan's
goats to write 49 chapters in his Holy Bible.

Can you even imagine one of Satan's goats, now in Hell, writing these verses
of Holy Scripture?

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.

In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

My view: These verses were written by Solomon
under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

These verses have always been some of my most favorite and highly
treasured Bible verses. They has been a comfort to me all my life.
And to tens of millions of other Christians. I am unable to believe
these verses of Holy Scripture were written by one of Satan's
goats, now in Hell.

JAG__
Feb 8th 2016, 10:17 PM
Regarding the book of Ecclesiastes, if you believe that the word of God is inspired and
everything in it OT & NT is there Because God has determined that is to be part of
scripture, then how can you take the book of Ecclesiastes out of the OT?

That's a very good point, that is, your rhetorical question with the strongly implied
answer that one cannot say that the book of Ecclesiastes is not inspired by God.

JAG__
Feb 8th 2016, 10:23 PM
A verse in Nehemiah worth considering:

"Was it not because of marriages like these that Solomon king
of Israel sinned? Among the many nations there was no king like him.
He was loved by his God, and God made him king over all Israel, but
even he was led into sin by foreign women." Nehemiah 13:26 NIV

Compare Shepherdsword's point in post 6 ... "But my mercy shall not
depart from him" [Solomon]. 2 Samuel 7:12-15