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divaD
Mar 11th 2016, 02:01 PM
1 Corinthians 3:17

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


The way this reads to me, this indicates the persons themselves are the temple of God...which temple ye are.

So that to me means God will destroy the person that defiles their own body. Why then do some conclude this is meaning other persons defiling the temple of God, such as doing harm to them bodily, and they being whom God will destroy instead? I'm guessing all of the OSAS crowd don't interpret this the way I do, since it would contradict their position. But what about others who are not of the OSAS crowd, do some of you interpret this differently than I do as well?

Trivalee
Mar 11th 2016, 02:38 PM
1 Corinthians 3:17

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


The way this reads to me, this indicates the persons themselves are the temple of God...which temple ye are.

So that to me means God will destroy the person that defiles their own body. Why then do some conclude this is meaning other persons defiling the temple of God, such as doing harm to them bodily, and they being whom God will destroy instead? I'm guessing all of the OSAS crowd don't interpret this the way I do, since it would contradict their position. But what about others who are not of the OSAS crowd, do some of you interpret this differently than I do as well?

The text above (1 Cor 3:17) is as clear as day. The preceding verse (16) said: "know ye not that you the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" Anyone who refuses to accept responsibility for what they do to their own body and prefers to lay blame on the harm done to them by outside influences is either denying the word of God or simply as they say, conveniently burying their head in the sand.

Golgotha
Mar 11th 2016, 03:12 PM
Read it in context.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

So this is talking about how a believer lives his or her life; sowing to the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit.

A day will be coming when the Lord will judge how everybody had built on that foundation, because God will judge the House of God first; see 1 Peter 4:17-19

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So a day will be coming where those who built poorly on that foundation of just wood, stubble, and hay will suffer a loss, but still be saved yet so as by fire. So what is that loss & yet still be saved?

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

The destruction of your physical body which is death, but your spirit still has His seal, & thus saved.

What proof do we have that a day will come with fire that will bring about physical death?

2 Peter 3rd chapter talks about that day of fire coming on the earth in relation to the Biblical flood.

Jesus said He is sending fire on the earth ( Luke 12:49 ) and stripes on those He calls His servants still after cutting them off ( left behind at the pre trib rapture ) for not being ready by not abiding in Him to join the unbelievers when the wrath of God comes on the world by fire to be followed by the great tribulation ( Luke 12:40-49 ).

In the second chapter in the Book of Revelation; specifically Revelation 2:18-29 ; the church at Thyatira was warned to repent of their spiritual fornication ( Rev. 2:20-21 ) that speak the utter depths of Satan for which they speak;( Rev. 2:24 ; chasing after what they think is the Holy Spirit to receive "again" after a sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation thus becoming an adulterous generation for doing that Matthew 12:39 & 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 ) If they did not repent, they would be cast into the great tribulation ( Rev. 2:22 ) and be judged with physical death, and so God's word is true still for saved believers that the wages of sin is death and God will judge believers in according to their works as this warning is given to all the churches ( Rev. 2:23 ).

Paul ends that chapter to remind believers and the unrepentant believers this important truth.

1 Corinthians 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

And in another epistle;

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

And that foundation stands sure which is why the call to depart from iniquity is given to saved believers to avoid being a vessel unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So what is the consequence for not believing in OSAS?

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

So just because saved believers are left behind to face the fire and the coming great tribulation, it does not mean they are not His, because He has bought them, and He will finish His work in them.

That is how they will die a physical death in that day of fire and yet they are still saved.

Unless they repent with His help in laying aside every weight & sin before the Bridegroom comes.

Old man
Mar 11th 2016, 03:20 PM
1 Corinthians 3:17

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


The way this reads to me, this indicates the persons themselves are the temple of God...which temple ye are.

So that to me means God will destroy the person that defiles their own body. Why then do some conclude this is meaning other persons defiling the temple of God, such as doing harm to them bodily, and they being whom God will destroy instead? I'm guessing all of the OSAS crowd don't interpret this the way I do, since it would contradict their position. But what about others who are not of the OSAS crowd, do some of you interpret this differently than I do as well?

The context begins at the beginning of the chapter which is talking about how other people build onto to you (or your temple). This is not talking about the physical body but your spiritual being. Do they build encouragement, hope and faith in Christ? Do they build your faith up or tear it down? Do they build truth in you or falsehood?

It is their work or what they have contributed to your relationship with Christ that will be tested. If their efforts have a destructive affect on you what Paul is saying is that God will destroy them for the damage they have done to God's temple which is you.

It works along the same lines as what happens (and why) to the goats before His throne. In that you did it (or not) to the least of these my brothers you did it unto Me.

Golgotha
Mar 11th 2016, 03:54 PM
The context begins at the beginning of the chapter which is talking about how other people build onto to you (or your temple). This is not talking about the physical body but your spiritual being. Do they build encouragement, hope and faith in Christ? Do they build your faith up or tear it down? Do they build truth in you or falsehood?

It is their work or what they have contributed to your relationship with Christ that will be tested. If their efforts have a destructive affect on you what Paul is saying is that God will destroy them for the damage they have done to God's temple which is you.

It works along the same lines as what happens (and why) to the goats before His throne. In that you did it (or not) to the least of these my brothers you did it unto Me.

I do not see how you are applying it to mean it that way.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

It is beyond verse 12 that signify it is how the individual believer builds on his own foundation. The reward or the loss is on that believer, because his body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and if it gets defiled, then that physical body gets destroyed.

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So there is a consequence for defiling your own temple of God and that is physical death when that day comes when God shall judge His House first by fire.

divaD
Mar 11th 2016, 04:21 PM
So what is the consequence for not believing in OSAS?

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.



Given your thread in ETC "Getting Ready For the Pre Trib Rapture Part 1", and what you said in that thread, it then doesn't surprise me in the least that you would then apply the above passage to those that of the NOSAS crowd. While I don't agree OSAS is correct, I don't believe I have ever then applied 2 Peter 2:1 to them.

Then after applying that to fellow believers, you then go on to say.."So just because saved believers are left behind to face the fire and the coming great tribulation, it does not mean they are not His, because He has bought them, and He will finish His work in them."

How can false prophets, whom you apparently conclude are believers opposed to OSAS, still be saved believers then? Seems like a contradiction to me since I wouldn't take any of these false prophets in 2 Peter 2:1 to be meaning the saved in the end. After all, it does say this...even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

divaD
Mar 11th 2016, 04:32 PM
The text above (1 Cor 3:17) is as clear as day. The preceding verse (16) said: "know ye not that you the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" Anyone who refuses to accept responsibility for what they do to their own body and prefers to lay blame on the harm done to them by outside influences is either denying the word of God or simply as they say, conveniently burying their head in the sand.

It is as clear as day, I agree. Why isn't it as clear as day to all then? I can fully understand those of the OSAS camp interpreting this differently, but what about others not of the OSAS camp? I'm guessing some might interpret it like you and I, while others might not. But why though, if they are not of OSAS camp, thus, it's not like interpreting it like you and I do is then contradicting NOSAS somehow.

divaD
Mar 11th 2016, 04:39 PM
The context begins at the beginning of the chapter which is talking about how other people build onto to you (or your temple). This is not talking about the physical body but your spiritual being. Do they build encouragement, hope and faith in Christ? Do they build your faith up or tear it down? Do they build truth in you or falsehood?

It is their work or what they have contributed to your relationship with Christ that will be tested. If their efforts have a destructive affect on you what Paul is saying is that God will destroy them for the damage they have done to God's temple which is you.

It works along the same lines as what happens (and why) to the goats before His throne. In that you did it (or not) to the least of these my brothers you did it unto Me.

As to the goats though, they are not being destroyed because of what they did to others, but because of what they didn't do for others. As to 1 Corinthians 3:17, they are being destroyed because of the things they did in their body after having had the Holy Spirit take up residence in them. That's how it reads to me, regardless that the context may start some verses earlier. It still says what it says, thus has to mean what it means.

CadyandZoe
Mar 11th 2016, 05:40 PM
1 Corinthians 3:17

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


The way this reads to me, this indicates the persons themselves are the temple of God...which temple ye are.

So that to me means God will destroy the person that defiles their own body. Why then do some conclude this is meaning other persons defiling the temple of God, such as doing harm to them bodily, and they being whom God will destroy instead? I'm guessing all of the OSAS crowd don't interpret this the way I do, since it would contradict their position. But what about others who are not of the OSAS crowd, do some of you interpret this differently than I do as well?

In this context, the "temple" of God is the Corinthian church and the topic of his discourse up to this point is his dismay at finding factions and divisions in the church. He has discovered behaviors in the church that are not fitting for someone who believes the gospel of Christ, and he has encountered resistance to his teaching also. So, how would someone "defile" the temple in this context? To answer that question we need only examine the rest of the letter to discover that various false teachers have brought in destructive doctrine.

Aristarkos
Mar 11th 2016, 06:19 PM
1 Corinthians 3:17

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


The way this reads to me, this indicates the persons themselves are the temple of God...which temple ye are.

So that to me means God will destroy the person that defiles their own body. Why then do some conclude this is meaning other persons defiling the temple of God, such as doing harm to them bodily, and they being whom God will destroy instead? I'm guessing all of the OSAS crowd don't interpret this the way I do, since it would contradict their position. But what about others who are not of the OSAS crowd, do some of you interpret this differently than I do as well?

I think Paul is talking about division in the church.

1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Or in other words, falls teachings and those false teachers are those who destroy (defile) the temple of God ę ye Ľ are and God will destroy them.

Aristarkos

divaD
Mar 11th 2016, 06:20 PM
In this context, the "temple" of God is the Corinthian church and the topic of his discourse up to this point is his dismay at finding factions and divisions in the church. He has discovered behaviors in the church that are not fitting for someone who believes the gospel of Christ, and he has encountered resistance to his teaching also. So, how would someone "defile" the temple in this context? To answer that question we need only examine the rest of the letter to discover that various false teachers have brought in destructive doctrine.

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Let's say for the sake of argument we ignore my interpretation for the time being. What would that then mean? This perhaps? If any man NOT defile the temple of God, him shall God NOT destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Plenty of folks likely end up in the LOF who never defiled the temple of God though. If assuming like some are understanding this passage. So why are they getting destroyed if they never defiled the temple of God in some way? Meaning they personally done no one who is the temple of God harm one way or the other? Shouldn't that then equal...If any man NOT defile the temple of God, him shall God NOT destroy?

But if we understand it like I'm understanding it, the opposite would indeed be true of those that don't defile the temple of God, meaning via their bodies...equating to...If any man NOT defile the temple of God, him shall God NOT destroy.

Trivalee
Mar 11th 2016, 06:35 PM
It is as clear as day, I agree. Why isn't it as clear as day to all then? I can fully understand those of the OSAS camp interpreting this differently, but what about others not of the OSAS camp? I'm guessing some might interpret it like you and I, while others might not. But why though, if they are not of OSAS camp, thus, it's not like interpreting it like you and I do is then contradicting NOSAS somehow.

Let me apologise for not knowing what OSAS and NOSAS stand for. That said, there is no scripture that you won't find those willing to dispute its meaning. Even some of the shortest verses in scripture like "Jesus wept" have different understanding and interpretations of its meaning depending on who ask. Do I bother myself about how someone else interprets a clear text? I don't! So long as I am convinced in the spirit (1 Cor 2:14) that my understanding is correct, am happy.

I can't help what OSAS and NOSAS think of (1 Cor 3:17) but to me, it's a clear warning that 'every individual' will be accountable to God for the things they do to themselves contrary to sound doctrine.

CadyandZoe
Mar 11th 2016, 10:18 PM
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Let's say for the sake of argument we ignore my interpretation for the time being. What would that then mean? This perhaps? If any man NOT defile the temple of God, him shall God NOT destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Plenty of folks likely end up in the LOF who never defiled the temple of God though. If assuming like some are understanding this passage. So why are they getting destroyed if they never defiled the temple of God in some way? Meaning they personally done no one who is the temple of God harm one way or the other? Shouldn't that then equal...If any man NOT defile the temple of God, him shall God NOT destroy?

But if we understand it like I'm understanding it, the opposite would indeed be true of those that don't defile the temple of God, meaning via their bodies...equating to...If any man NOT defile the temple of God, him shall God NOT destroy.

If Paul was talking about the treatment of the human body, one would expect to find a statement about the abuse or neglect of the human body in this context. I'm not saying that Paul didn't equate the human body to a temple; he does this three chapters later. Speaking about immorality he says,

1Corinthians 6:18-20
Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

In Chapter 3, though, the topic of his discourse are unwise teachers, who seem to be leading the church according to the principles of Greek philosophy rather than the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. I note the many times in chapters one through three Paul speaks about wisdom and foolishness, especially with respect to the truth about God, and the gospel of Jesus Christ crucified, which Paul says is foolishness to the natural man. At issue is the disheartening and dangerous situation in Corinth in which a faction of the church has rejected Paul and his teaching because his physical presence is not very impressive or appealing. Apollos was impressive and eloquent and was able to gain a hearing in Corinth but Paul found resistance there. In a nutshell, Paul exhorted the church to consider whether one should accept style over substance and if so, what does this say about the spiritual maturity of that person? In Paul's view, the message is more important than who delivers the message, or how impressive the messenger speaks. One should listen to both Apollos and Paul but one should also remember that Paul, not Apollos is laying the foundation of our faith and anyone who seeks to build a body of teaching would do well to build on the foundation that Paul already set down.

I agree with Aristarkos, that false teachers were present in Corinth. And such men were responsible for defiling the "temple" of God with their false teaching. But if false teachers defiled the temple of God with false teaching, much more did those who convinced others not to trust or believe Paul, who had the supernaturally ratified word from Jesus Christ himself. I suspect that the practice of immorality among them is evidence that certain men were leading church members astray with false and incorrect teaching.

Golgotha
Mar 11th 2016, 11:36 PM
Given your thread in ETC "Getting Ready For the Pre Trib Rapture Part 1", and what you said in that thread, it then doesn't surprise me in the least that you would then apply the above passage to those that of the NOSAS crowd. While I don't agree OSAS is correct, I don't believe I have ever then applied 2 Peter 2:1 to them.

Then after applying that to fellow believers, you then go on to say.."So just because saved believers are left behind to face the fire and the coming great tribulation, it does not mean they are not His, because He has bought them, and He will finish His work in them."

How can false prophets, whom you apparently conclude are believers opposed to OSAS, still be saved believers then? Seems like a contradiction to me since I wouldn't take any of these false prophets in 2 Peter 2:1 to be meaning the saved in the end. After all, it does say this...even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

If that swift destruction which is their physical bodies which comes about by being left behind to face the coming fire on the earth, and the subsequent great tribulation when the saints will be given over unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, then they are still saved, because they still have His seal unto that day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30

It cannot be eternal hellfire for how can it be swift? So it pertains to physical death.

My concern about those that do not believe in OSAS is not recognizing the power of God in salvation for having bought then or any one. The foundation stands sure. It cannot be removed. His seal is unto the day of redemption. Those believers that call God Father now is not going to cease calling Him that. He is our Father and because He is our Father, then the pre trib rapture, the fire, and the great tribulation is the Father chastening and scourging every child He receives so that we may be partakers of His holiness. See Hebrews 12:1-29

So as a vessel unto honor or as a vessel unto dishonor, the citizenship in the kingdom of heaven cannot be removed.

Better to repent by looking unto the author & finisher of our faith now to finish His work in us so that we may be ready rather than have Him finish His work in us the hard way where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Golgotha
Mar 11th 2016, 11:49 PM
If Paul was talking about the treatment of the human body, one would expect to find a statement about the abuse or neglect of the human body in this context. I'm not saying that Paul didn't equate the human body to a temple; he does this three chapters later. Speaking about immorality he says,

1Corinthians 6:18-20
Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

In Chapter 3, though, the topic of his discourse are unwise teachers, who seem to be leading the church according to the principles of Greek philosophy rather than the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. I note the many times in chapters one through three Paul speaks about wisdom and foolishness, especially with respect to the truth about God, and the gospel of Jesus Christ crucified, which Paul says is foolishness to the natural man. At issue is the disheartening and dangerous situation in Corinth in which a faction of the church has rejected Paul and his teaching because his physical presence is not very impressive or appealing. Apollos was impressive and eloquent and was able to gain a hearing in Corinth but Paul found resistance there. In a nutshell, Paul exhorted the church to consider whether one should accept style over substance and if so, what does this say about the spiritual maturity of that person? In Paul's view, the message is more important than who delivers the message, or how impressive the messenger speaks. One should listen to both Apollos and Paul but one should also remember that Paul, not Apollos is laying the foundation of our faith and anyone who seeks to build a body of teaching would do well to build on the foundation that Paul already set down.

I agree with Aristarkos, that false teachers were present in Corinth. And such men were responsible for defiling the "temple" of God with their false teaching. But if false teachers defiled the temple of God with false teaching, much more did those who convinced others not to trust or believe Paul, who had the supernaturally ratified word from Jesus Christ himself. I suspect that the practice of immorality among them is evidence that certain men were leading church members astray with false and incorrect teaching.

How does that work in application?

Does God destroy the church if that is the temple?

Does God destroy the sheep that went astray?

Does God only destroy the false teacher? If only the false teacher, what happens to the "corrupted church" or the sheep that went astray? Are they not still defiled?

Seems like the punishment is towards those defiled, and therefore how an individual believer builds on that foundation will be judged. If he sows to the fruits of the Spirit, then gold & silver; if he sows to the works of the flesh, wood, stubble, & hay. The wages of sin is still death as God is not mocked and so physical death is the destruction of that body which is the temple of the Holy Ghost. The foundation remains just as the seal unto that day of redemption remains, but the works on that foundation that is defiling the temple of God will be burned up & gone, because they are His.

Noeb
Mar 12th 2016, 12:32 AM
The context begins at the beginning of the chapter which is talking about how other people build onto to you (or your temple). This is not talking about the physical body but your spiritual being. Do they build encouragement, hope and faith in Christ? Do they build your faith up or tear it down? Do they build truth in you or falsehood?

It is their work or what they have contributed to your relationship with Christ that will be tested. If their efforts have a destructive affect on you what Paul is saying is that God will destroy them for the damage they have done to God's temple which is you.

It works along the same lines as what happens (and why) to the goats before His throne. In that you did it (or not) to the least of these my brothers you did it unto Me.Yes, it's about the work of ministers on the temple. Same context since chapter 1. Continues through chapter 4.

Noeb
Mar 12th 2016, 01:48 AM
In this context, the "temple" of God is the Corinthian church and the topic of his discourse up to this point is his dismay at finding factions and divisions in the church. He has discovered behaviors in the church that are not fitting for someone who believes the gospel of Christ, and he has encountered resistance to his teaching also. So, how would someone "defile" the temple in this context? To answer that question we need only examine the rest of the letter to discover that various false teachers have brought in destructive doctrine.Exactly
.

Noeb
Mar 12th 2016, 01:51 AM
I think Paul is talking about division in the church.

1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Or in other words, falls teachings and those false teachers are those who destroy (defile) the temple of God ę ye Ľ are and God will destroy them.

Aristarkosanother good one

Old man
Mar 12th 2016, 02:18 AM
Yes, it's about the work of ministers on the temple. Same context since chapter 1. Continues through chapter 4.

Chapter 4 is not the end of the context. The chapters regarding the gifts reveal the purpose of the gifts and their proper use of them is to build up and edify each other. IOW to build upon the foundation of Christ in each other what we can to strengthen the body.

Noeb
Mar 12th 2016, 03:49 AM
Chapters 5-8 are not the same context as 1-4.

Golgotha
Mar 12th 2016, 02:25 PM
Yes, it's about the work of ministers on the temple. Same context since chapter 1. Continues through chapter 4.

God destroys the false minister ....when?

What happens to the defiled temple? It's still defiled regardless of the destruction of the false ministers.

This is why I see Paul addressing the individual believer; and not a church assembly.

CadyandZoe
Mar 12th 2016, 05:40 PM
How does that work in application? Suppose, for instance, that a man becomes the leader of a church and due to his teaching and behavior, the members of that church are led to believe that sin is okay, that immorality is acceptable, that fornication is not really evil or sinful, that God loves a person regardless of how one lives and etc. Paul warns such a man that God will send that man into the Lake of Fire.


Does God destroy the church if that is the temple?No, I don't think so. Jesus taught us that in any given church there will exist both wheat and tares and to let them grow up together until the judgment. That having been said, many times a child of God will leave a church where the pastor or teacher is leading the congregation into sin.


Does God destroy the sheep that went astray?God doesn't destroy sheep. If the sheep are being led astray, they will feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit eventually, and perhaps they might leave or remove the pastor.


Does God only destroy the false teacher? If only the false teacher, what happens to the "corrupted church" or the sheep that went astray? Are they not still defiled?

Seems like the punishment is towards those defiled, and therefore how an individual believer builds on that foundation will be judged. If he sows to the fruits of the Spirit, then gold & silver; if he sows to the works of the flesh, wood, stubble, & hay. The wages of sin is still death as God is not mocked and so physical death is the destruction of that body which is the temple of the Holy Ghost. The foundation remains just as the seal unto that day of redemption remains, but the works on that foundation that is defiling the temple of God will be burned up & gone, because they are His.

This represents a common misinterpretation of 1Cor. 3, which applies Paul's description to every believer. In fact, Paul is not talking about every believer in this context. His focus is on teachers, not lay people. He says,

1Corinthians 3:12-15
Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


The "any man" in this context is a teacher, such as Apollos. I take note of the paragraph that preceded this one.

What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

The subject hasn't changed from one paragraph to the other, which centers on people like Paul and Apollos who serve God as ministers to the church. The one who is building on the foundation, in verse 12, is the same one who is watering where Paul planted in verse 6.

Aristarkos
Mar 12th 2016, 05:55 PM
Chapter 4 is not the end of the context. The chapters regarding the gifts reveal the purpose of the gifts and their proper use of them is to build up and edify each other. IOW to build upon the foundation of Christ in each other what we can to strengthen the body.

According to the structure of the book it ends at 4:16

13012

Aristarkos

** Structure taken from the Companion Bible

Golgotha
Mar 12th 2016, 06:23 PM
Suppose, for instance, that a man becomes the leader of a church and due to his teaching and behavior, the members of that church are led to believe that sin is okay, that immorality is acceptable, that fornication is not really evil or sinful, that God loves a person regardless of how one lives and etc. Paul warns such a man that God will send that man into the Lake of Fire.

1 Corinthians 3: 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I don't think Paul is talking about the lake of fire here. Not sure how that can not unravel your entire application of those verses in that regard.


The "any man" in this context is a teacher, such as Apollos. I take note of the paragraph that preceded this one.

What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are Godís fellow workers; you are Godís field, Godís building.

The subject hasn't changed from one paragraph to the other, which centers on people like Paul and Apollos who serve God as ministers to the church. The one who is building on the foundation, in verse 12, is the same one who is watering where Paul planted in verse 6.

Each believer were making an individual choice of who each is following; hence the division.

Therefore, it is not far from the application on how each individual believer builds on that foundation as it is that each individual that will be held accountable for that work on that foundation.

CadyandZoe
Mar 12th 2016, 06:49 PM
1 Corinthians 3: 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I don't think Paul is talking about the lake of fire here. Not sure how that can not unravel your entire application of those verses in that regard.I agree. Paul isn't talking about the lake of fire in that verse. In verse 15, the works are tested, not the man himself.




Each believer were making an individual choice of who each is following; hence the division.

Therefore, it is not far from the application on how each individual believer builds on that foundation as it is that each individual that will be held accountable for that work on that foundation.I don't disagree except to say that Paul isn't making THAT point in the third chapter of 1Corinthians.

Noeb
Mar 12th 2016, 07:02 PM
God destroys the false minister ....when?The text neither directly asks or answers the question, so why do you directly ask and attempt to answer? Kinda a diversion from the point of the passage, no? Still, you can answer that question, whether you believe the work of the minister is his converts or his teachings.



What happens to the defiled temple? It's still defiled regardless of the destruction of the false ministers.The temple here is spiritual and plural (ye) in Greek (as a whole), but you can easily find out how the actual temple (vessels) and people were cleansed, whether by blood, fire, or water and apply NT teaching. Here's a start for you....Heb 9:21-22, Num 31:22-24.......


1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Num 31:22 Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,
Num 31:23 Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.
Num 31:24 And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp.


....Just don't over-spiritualize. That's a Christians most common error. In Numbers, the people were not the gold, and the silver, etc...so why are they in 1Co 3?.....they were not put through the fire as with heathen gods. Water and blood were applied to people. The things used by the temple were put through fire. Here Paul applies this to the spiritual temple as doctrine -the people say "I like Paul's teachings", another Peter's, another Apollos' -1Co 3:1-10.



This is why I see Paul addressing the individual believer; and not a church assembly.and why is that again? I didn't see you give a reason. There's nothing in the entire passage that would make us think he's talking about individuals. He says the foundation is Christ, and no minister can change that.....obviously. What a minister can change is doctrine -the people say "I like Paul's teachings", another Peter's, another Apollos' -1Co 3:1-10. These names are just examples to make a point. Paul didn't 'advertise' for false teachers by name here, neither was he saying Peter and/or Apollos were false teachers.

Golgotha
Mar 12th 2016, 07:09 PM
I agree. Paul isn't talking about the lake of fire in that verse. In verse 15, the works are tested, not the man himself.

I don't disagree except to say that Paul isn't making THAT point in the third chapter of 1Corinthians.

Paul seem to be addressing each believer by that epistle to that church at Corinth on how each were identifying each selves by who they were following. Granted, having dividing groups of followers in the church can pertain to groups of people, but it is still each believer is held accountable for the choices they each make... and that includes what each builds on their own foundation in living this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ of their own idividual body.

Elsewhere, Paul addresses that personal accountability again.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Knowing that terror of the Lord is being left behind at the pre trib rapture as a castaway to be received as a vessel unto dishonor in His House for not looking to the Good Shepherd for help in departing from iniquity.

Noeb
Mar 12th 2016, 07:12 PM
1 Corinthians 3: 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Not all teaching that is not gold, silver, etc.....is damnable heresy that defiles the temple. Some teachings are just wrong, and not worthy of destruction of the minister. We all have these. No one is entirely correct about everything. These type teachings will not survive the fire, for reward, but the minister who teaches them is still saved.

Noeb
Mar 12th 2016, 07:17 PM
Paul seem to be addressing each believer by that epistle to that church at Corinth on how each were identifying each selves by who they were following. Granted, having dividing groups of followers in the church can pertain to groups of people, but it is still each believer is held accountable for the choices they each makeNo, only the ministers are in question here, not the hearer.



... and that includes what each builds on their own foundation in living this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ of their own idividual body.There's only one foundation in the text, and that is Christ. Every minister builds on that one foundation. There is no "their own foundation".

Golgotha
Mar 12th 2016, 07:19 PM
The text neither directly asks or answers the question, so why do you directly ask and attempt to answer? Kinda a diversion from the point of the passage, no? Still, you can answer that question, whether you believe the work of the minister is his converts or his teachings.

Seeing how that man's works goes through the fire, he will suffer loss, and yet he still be saved so as by fire is addressing the man himself in how that man had built on that foundation; not the converts nor his teachings.


The temple here is spiritual and plural (ye) in Greek (as a whole), but you can easily find out how the actual temple (vessels) and people were cleansed, whether by blood, fire, or water and apply NT teaching. Here's a start for you....Heb 9:21-22, Num 31:22-24.......


1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Num 31:22 Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,
Num 31:23 Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.
Num 31:24 And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp.


....Just don't over-spiritualize. That's a Christians most common error. In Numbers, the people were not the gold, and the silver, etc...so why are they in 1Co 3?.....they were not put through the fire as with heathen gods. Water and blood was applied to people. The things used by the temple were put through fire. Here Paul applies this to the spiritual temple as doctrine -the people say "I like Paul's teachings", another Peter's, another Apollos' -1Co 3:1-10.

If you think the work of the man are his converts, would that not be his gold & silver?

And so I believe the gold & silver... the imperishable items that cannot be destroyed by fire are the fruits of the Spirit whereas the perishable are the wood, stubble, and hay that will get burned up and away from that foundation laid are the works of the flesh.


and why is that again? I didn't see you give a reason. There's nothing in the entire passage that would make us think he's talking about individuals. He says the foundation is Christ, and no minister can change that.....obviously. What a minister can change is doctrine -the people say "I like Paul's teachings", another Peter's, another Apollos' -1Co 3:1-10. These are just examples to make a point. Paul didn't 'advertise' for false teachers by name here.

Let every man take heed..... sounds like every believer will be held accountable and not just leaders or teachers.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight: ) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Golgotha
Mar 12th 2016, 07:23 PM
No, only the ministers are in question here, not the hearer.


There's only one foundation in the text, and that is Christ. Every minister builds on that one foundation. There is no "their own foundation".

Every believer has His seal and every believer has that foundation which was laid in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So it is as a man builds on that sure foundation of God that can never be destroyed, having His seal, but the works on it will be judged. How that believer will be received depends on whether he is a vessel unto honor which is immediately at the pre trib rapture or they become castaways to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.

CadyandZoe
Mar 12th 2016, 07:28 PM
Paul seem to be addressing each believer by that epistle to that church at Corinth on how each were identifying each selves by who they were following. Granted, having dividing groups of followers in the church can pertain to groups of people, but it is still each believer is held accountable for the choices they each make... and that includes what each builds on their own foundation in living this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ of their own idividual body.

Elsewhere, Paul addresses that personal accountability again.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Knowing that terror of the Lord is being left behind at the pre trib rapture as a castaway to be received as a vessel unto dishonor in His House for not looking to the Good Shepherd for help in departing from iniquity.Yes, Paul teaches personal accountability in 2 Corinthians 5, as you point out, and elsewhere. In chapter 3 of 1Corinthians, however, he narrows his focus in order to express his position on the role of a teacher, within the context and in the face of strong opposition to his ministry. Apparently Apollos was popular and well received, and Paul is willing to acknowledge this as fact. Nonetheless, he thinks it important for the Corinthians to understand that while Apollos is in the process of building up the church, it was Paul, not Apollos who provided the foundation -- since Paul got his information directly from God and Jesus himself and the Father has authenticated and ratified Paul's teaching with the supernatural signs of an apostle.

Again, I don't disagree with your position that God will hold each one of us accountable for what we do. He will and he does. And Paul teaches this elsewhere, just not here in 1Corinthians 3.

Noeb
Mar 12th 2016, 07:43 PM
Seeing how that man's works goes through the fire, he will suffer loss, and yet he still be saved so as by fire is addressing the man himself in how that man had built on that foundation; not the converts nor his teachings.

If you think the work of the man are his converts, would that not be his gold & silver?I didn't say it was the converts. That's a commonly held view so I included it. I used to think so.



And so I believe the gold & silver... the imperishable items that cannot be destroyed by fire are the fruits of the Spirit whereas the perishable are the wood, stubble, and hay that will get burned up and away from that foundation laid are the works of the flesh.That strays from the context. Sure, spiritual fruit remains -Joh 15:16, for reward, but that's not what is being discussed here.



Let every man take heed..... sounds like every believer will be held accountable and not just leaders or teachers.Not when every man is ministers. 1Co 1:1, 12, 23, 2:6-7, 10, 12-13, 16, 3:4-10. Even in verses 18-20 Paul is pointing at false teachers.

Golgotha
Mar 12th 2016, 07:49 PM
Yes, Paul teaches personal accountability in 2 Corinthians 5, as you point out, and elsewhere. In chapter 3 of 1Corinthians, however, he narrows his focus in order to express his position on the role of a teacher, within the context and in the face of strong opposition to his ministry. Apparently Apollos was popular and well received, and Paul is willing to acknowledge this as fact. Nonetheless, he thinks it important for the Corinthians to understand that while Apollos is in the process of building up the church, it was Paul, not Apollos who provided the foundation -- since Paul got his information directly from God and Jesus himself and the Father has authenticated and ratified Paul's teaching with the supernatural signs of an apostle.

Again, I don't disagree with your position that God will hold each one of us accountable for what we do. He will and he does. And Paul teaches this elsewhere, just not here in 1Corinthians 3.

Okay. At least we agree on that point of truth even though we disagree as to what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17

Golgotha
Mar 12th 2016, 07:52 PM
I didn't say it was the converts. That's a commonly held view so I included it. I used to think so.

That strays for the context. Sure, spiritual fruit remains -Joh 15:16, for reward, but that's not what is being discussed here.

Not when every man is ministers. 1Co 1:1, 12, 23, 2:6-7, 10, 12-13, 16, 3:4-10. Even in verses 18-20 Paul is pointing at false teachers.

Ever believer is still accountable to the choices they make even in the teachers they follow; and therefore every man will should take heed how they build on that foundation.

No one will be doing any finger pointing blame game like Adam and Eve did at the fall.

Yes.. the teachers will receive the greater condemnation, but the ones that were led astray will still receive that condemnation even though they are both still saved.

Each one of us should recognize the choice of trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd or trusting some one else to be that good shepherd.

Noeb
Mar 12th 2016, 07:55 PM
Every believer has His seal and every believer has that foundation which was laid in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So it is as a man builds on that sure foundation of God that can never be destroyed, having His seal, but the works on it will be judged. How that believer will be received depends on whether he is a vessel unto honor which is immediately at the pre trib rapture or they become castaways to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.I'm sorry but we're in 1Cor 1-4 and this concept isn't present. Just because you find it elsewhere doesn't mean it belongs here. Do you understand? Each text stands on its own, and different points can be made from one metaphor. In 1 Cor 3 the metaphor focuses on teaching and fire. In the Pastoral Epistle the metaphor focuses on the teacher and makes no mention of fire.

Noeb
Mar 12th 2016, 07:57 PM
Ever believer is still accountable to the choices they make even in the teachers they follow; and therefore every man will should take heed how they build on that foundation.

No one will be doing any finger pointing blame game like Adam and Eve did at the fall.

Yes.. the teachers will receive the greater condemnation, but the ones that were led astray will still receive that condemnation even though they are both still saved.

Each one of us should recognize the choice of trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd or trusting some one else to be that good shepherd.
No one has said they're not but we are discussing 1 Cor 1-4.

Golgotha
Mar 13th 2016, 12:38 PM
I'm sorry but we're in 1Cor 1-4 and this concept isn't present. Just because you find it elsewhere doesn't mean it belongs here. Do you understand? Each text stands on its own, and different points can be made from one metaphor. In 1 Cor 3 the metaphor focuses on teaching and fire. In the Pastoral Epistle the metaphor focuses on the teacher and makes no mention of fire.

Just that Paul refers to that foundation as being sure which is why back in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17, it is just the works on that foundation that shall be judged; not the foundation nor the seal.

divaD
Mar 13th 2016, 02:48 PM
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


Let me ask this then, but not to anyone in particular, just meaning whoever cares to answer, since apparently not everyone interprets this passage like I do. Those that defile the temple of God per your view, are these meaning initially saved folks? Only meaning the unsaved? Or perhaps meaning a mixture of both?

CadyandZoe
Mar 13th 2016, 03:37 PM
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


Let me ask this then, but not to anyone in particular, just meaning whoever cares to answer, since apparently not everyone interprets this passage like I do. Those that defile the temple of God per your view, are these meaning initially saved folks? Only meaning the unsaved? Or perhaps meaning a mixture of both?

Those that defile the temple, in that context, are unsaved teachers. Take a look at the kinds of questions Paul answers in his letter. I believe that Paul was hearing disturbing stories from good Christians about a lax attitude toward sin among others in the church. One example comes immediately to mind.

1Corinthians 7:1-2
Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

I believe the Corinthians wrote the first sentence, "It is good for a man not to touch a woman." And they were asking Paul, "This is true isn't it Paul. Isn't it true that it would be better if a man didn't even touch a woman?" In the chapter than follows, Paul expounds and clarifies his position on human sexuality and marriage. But it's a fair question to ask, "where did these well-meaning Christians get the idea that marriage was forbidden and that male-female contact should be avoided?"* We know how these kinds of weird ideas can get a hearing among Christians, even today. Someone writes a book claiming to know how to live the Christian life; how to have better kids or a good marriage, or wealth, or health or prosperity or any number of other weird ideas that come along every day. The Corinthian church was filled with these kinds of weird ideas because this church was cosmopolitan, continually exposed to new ideas and new Greek Philosophies all the time. Paul's exhortation is to warn the church to be very careful to examine any "new" idea against the teachings of the scriptures and especially the Apostles.

Any teacher who comes along and leads the church astray is someone who has "defiled" the temple of God.

______________________
* Augustine, a Greek scholar before he was a Christian, believed that men and women should not marry or even have sex except to have children.

divaD
Mar 13th 2016, 04:08 PM
Those that defile the temple, in that context, are unsaved teachers. Take a look at the kinds of questions Paul answers in his letter. I believe that Paul was hearing disturbing stories from good Christians about a lax attitude toward sin among others in the church. One example comes immediately to mind.

1Corinthians 7:1-2
Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

I believe the Corinthians wrote the first sentence, "It is good for a man not to touch a woman." And they were asking Paul, "This is true isn't it Paul. Isn't it true that it would be better if a man didn't even touch a woman?" In the chapter than follows, Paul expounds and clarifies his position on human sexuality and marriage. But it's a fair question to ask, "where did these well-meaning Christians get the idea that marriage was forbidden and that male-female contact should be avoided?"* We know how these kinds of weird ideas can get a hearing among Christians, even today. Someone writes a book claiming to know how to live the Christian life; how to have better kids or a good marriage, or wealth, or health or prosperity or any number of other weird ideas that come along every day. The Corinthian church was filled with these kinds of weird ideas because this church was cosmopolitan, continually exposed to new ideas and new Greek Philosophies all the time. Paul's exhortation is to warn the church to be very careful to examine any "new" idea against the teachings of the scriptures and especially the Apostles.

Any teacher who comes along and leads the church astray is someone who has "defiled" the temple of God.

______________________
* Augustine, a Greek scholar before he was a Christian, believed that men and women should not marry or even have sex except to have children.

While this is a good explanation of things, why can't 1 Corinthians 3:17 be related to contexts such as the following for example?


1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Wasn't this in response to this?

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?


1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


There's similar contexts elsewhere. Would have to locate them first. But this context above came into mind for the time being.

Noeb
Mar 13th 2016, 04:38 PM
2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Golgotha
Mar 13th 2016, 05:22 PM
2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Since there are other places in the NT that addresses the foundation as two different topic where one is of a church that teachers add to with Christ being the cornerstone and then the other being how a believer is accountable for what he has done in his own body good or bad, I can understand why not every one will agree with me if I see 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 as meaning of how an individual believer builds on that foundation in his walk with the Lord.

It is not deceitfulness when the reader reads 1 Corinthians 3:10 -17 if they are reading it with those other particular references in mind. In time, the Lord will correct on which application that Paul was really referring to.

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Noeb
Mar 13th 2016, 05:38 PM
That's not why I posted those two verses.

CadyandZoe
Mar 13th 2016, 05:40 PM
While this is a good explanation of things, why can't 1 Corinthians 3:17 be related to contexts such as the following for example?


1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Wasn't this in response to this?

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?


1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


There's similar contexts elsewhere. Would have to locate them first. But this context above came into mind for the time being.

They are certainly related. My point is simply to point out that chapter 3 is focused on teachers, rather than the entire congregation. But as you point out, Paul exhorts all believers to live in a manner worthy of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Golgotha
Mar 13th 2016, 06:09 PM
That's not why I posted those two verses.

Okay. Sorry about that. :hug:

13014

Noeb
Mar 13th 2016, 06:13 PM
Since there are other places in the NT that addresses the foundation as two different topic where one is of a church that teachers add to with Christ being the cornerstone and then the other being how a believer is accountable for what he has done in his own body good or bad, I can understand why not every one will agree with me if I see 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 as meaning of how an individual believer builds on that foundation in his walk with the Lord.

It is not deceitfulness when the reader reads 1 Corinthians 3:10 -17 if they are reading it with those other particular references in mind. In time, the Lord will correct on which application that Paul was really referring to.

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.I posted those two verses to show the connection between the false teachers and behavior at Corinth. 2Co 2 talks about 1Co 5, which divaD posted.

Noeb
Mar 13th 2016, 06:14 PM
Okay. Sorry about that. :hug:

13014LOL, no problem. I can see why you thought that.

RogerW
Mar 21st 2016, 12:40 AM
1 Corinthians 3:17

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

The way this reads to me, this indicates the persons themselves are the temple of God...which temple ye are.

So that to me means God will destroy the person that defiles their own body. Why then do some conclude this is meaning other persons defiling the temple of God, such as doing harm to them bodily, and they being whom God will destroy instead? I'm guessing all of the OSAS crowd don't interpret this the way I do, since it would contradict their position. But what about others who are not of the OSAS crowd, do some of you interpret this differently than I do as well?

The context of this verse is concerned about others destroying 'the temple ye are'. The passage speaks about how those laboring for in the Word are laborers together with God. Some plant, some water and God grants the increase. But Paul is concerned about others who build upon another foundation as they labor in the Word. In vs. 10 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon." Paul has built upon the true foundation, and is now concerned that others might come after him and build upon another foundation that is NOT Jesus Christ. Some build with various materials (silver, gold, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble) and their works will be tested through the trials [fire] in this life, and if their works abide they will receive reward. Otherwise the works will be burned up through the trial by fire. They will be saved but their works burned up. This is the purpose for trials of our faith, to refine us, and rid us of all those things that so easily ensare us.

Now Paul says they are the temple of God, that is the church. If any man professing to be a wise master builder building upon the foundation of Christ defiles the temple with so-called words of wisdom (philosophy, vain deceit, bringing in false doctrines and heresies) corrupt their minds from the simplicity that is Christ, and causes divisions among them, him shall God destroy. God's church is holy, or sacred to Him. He will not hold him guiltless who defiles the church by building upon another foundation that is not of Christ. The chapter concludes with Paul exhorting them not to glory in any men, whether they be Paul, Apollos, or Cephas.

1Co*3:21 ∂ Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co*3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co*3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

It's not only important how you hear, what you hear, but also who you hear. Make sure you are not being deceived. Be discerning toward those who profess to be wise master builders who are building upon the foundation of Christ, for there are many deceivers among us.

Blessings,
RW