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Cyberseeker
May 3rd 2016, 07:07 AM
"(The priests) serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.” (Heb. 8:5)

"Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron's staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant. Above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat …" (Heb. 9:3-5)


Question for all you Old Testament experts. :cool:

There were three holy objects stored in the Ark of the Covenant. They were the manna, Aaron's staff, and the tablets of stone. Now, the epistle to the Hebrews says that these items served as a symbol (shadow) of the real temple which is in heaven.

O.K. here's my question: Exactly what did each of these objects represent? What was the 'type.'? Please limit discussion to the three items in the Ark.

Thoughts appreciated. :)

Cyber

shepherdsword
May 3rd 2016, 08:02 AM
Manna-God's provision
Staff-God's authority
Tablets-God's will

follower777
May 3rd 2016, 01:57 PM
The Manna __*Exodus 16:15 And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.

Christ - the Bread of Life coming down daily from heaven is our salvation, all we could ever need or want, throughout our exodus from bondage and on into liberty.


The Rod __*Numbers 17:8 And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.

A shadow of Christ's better priesthood(in that He conquers death), with the primary focus being that it is strictly determined by God's calling. The right of appointment to the office of high priest(mediator) belongs only to God, who grants authority everlasting and His approval is confirmed with signs following.


The Tablets __ *Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Ordinances pointing to devotion out of love made to renew the hearts and minds of God's people. We are sanctified by His Word.
The words of the covenant typify the law fulfilled unto death through Christ thereby guaranteeing God's promises.

pekoe
May 3rd 2016, 02:13 PM
They all represent Jesus...the Bread of life, the stick God chose that has life in itself and His Word.

John 8:32
May 3rd 2016, 02:23 PM
Question for all you Old Testament experts. :cool:

There were three holy objects stored in the Ark of the Covenant. They were the manna, Aaron's staff, and the tablets of stone. Now, the epistle to the Hebrews says that these items served as a symbol (shadow) of the real temple which is in heaven.

O.K. here's my question: Exactly what did each of these objects represent? What was the 'type.'? Please limit discussion to the three items in the Ark.

Thoughts appreciated. :)

Cyber

The only thing INSIDE the Ark was the Ten Commandments. Those other articles were on the table beside the Ark.

1Ki 8:9 Nothing was in the ark except the two tablets of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

Now for Hebrews 9:4...

Heb 9:4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;

Notice that the Book of the Law (not the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone) were put with or beside the Ark...

Deu 31:26 "Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Now John Gill handles this very well...

Wherein was the golden pot that had manna; which Aaron filled with manna by the direction of Moses, who gave it at the appointment of God, that it might be preserved to future ages, as a memorial of the goodness, care, and power of God in feeding the Israelites with it in the wilderness, Exo_16:33. This pot held an omer, which was more than three pints and a half; some say six pints: and though Moses does not call it a golden pot, yet it is so called, not only by the Septuagint in Exo_16:33 but also by Philo the Jew (g); nor is it reasonable to think, with some Jewish writers (h), that it should be made of earth, which was to continue for ages to come: this also was wanting in the second temple (i); and this, with Aaron's rod, after mentioned, and other things, is said to be hid when the ark was, and along with it (k): but how this pot, as well as Aaron's rod, can be said to be in the ark, when it is asserted, at the bringing of the ark into the temple, at the dedication of it by Solomon, that there was nothing in it but two tables of stone, 1Ki_8:9 and both the pot of "manna", and Aaron's rod, are said to be before the testimony, Exo_16:34 and not in it, is a difficulty. Some, in order to remove it, observe, that the phrase, "wherein", refers not to the ark, but to the tabernacle; but since the tables of the covenant were in the ark, and these are mentioned with it, and the phrase, "over it", in the next verse, cannot be understood of the tabernacle, but of the ark, this solution is not satisfactory. Others have observed, that they might be in the ark in Moses's time and in Jeremiah's time, when they are said to be hid, though they were not in Solomon's: and others have taken notice, that the preposition εν sometimes signifies "at", or "with", as in Col_3:1 and so the sense is, that these were near unto it in the most holy place, and might be in the sides of it, though not within it; for there were places in the sides of the ark to put things into, Deu_31:26. And certain it is from the above account from Scripture, that they were near it; and so, by the Jewish writers, they are always mentioned along with it: when that was carried away, and hid, they were hid with it; but what a certain Jewish commentator (l) observes on 1Ki_8:9 is so express, as if it was designed to vindicate our apostle: his remark is this:

"the intention of this is not to deny that there were not the things mentioned in the law, for they were מונחים בו, "left in it", as Aaron's "rod", and "the pot of manna", only to deny, hereby, that there was not anything of the law, save the decalogue.''

trance750
May 3rd 2016, 02:34 PM
The only thing INSIDE the Ark was the Ten Commandments. Those other articles were on the table beside the Ark.

1Ki 8:9 Nothing was in the ark except the two tablets of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

Now for Hebrews 9:4...

Heb 9:4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;

Notice that the Book of the Law (not the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone) were put with or beside the Ark...

Deu 31:26 "Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Now John Gill handles this very well...

Wherein was the golden pot that had manna; which Aaron filled with manna by the direction of Moses, who gave it at the appointment of God, that it might be preserved to future ages, as a memorial of the goodness, care, and power of God in feeding the Israelites with it in the wilderness, Exo_16:33. This pot held an omer, which was more than three pints and a half; some say six pints: and though Moses does not call it a golden pot, yet it is so called, not only by the Septuagint in Exo_16:33 but also by Philo the Jew (g); nor is it reasonable to think, with some Jewish writers (h), that it should be made of earth, which was to continue for ages to come: this also was wanting in the second temple (i); and this, with Aaron's rod, after mentioned, and other things, is said to be hid when the ark was, and along with it (k): but how this pot, as well as Aaron's rod, can be said to be in the ark, when it is asserted, at the bringing of the ark into the temple, at the dedication of it by Solomon, that there was nothing in it but two tables of stone, 1Ki_8:9 and both the pot of "manna", and Aaron's rod, are said to be before the testimony, Exo_16:34 and not in it, is a difficulty. Some, in order to remove it, observe, that the phrase, "wherein", refers not to the ark, but to the tabernacle; but since the tables of the covenant were in the ark, and these are mentioned with it, and the phrase, "over it", in the next verse, cannot be understood of the tabernacle, but of the ark, this solution is not satisfactory. Others have observed, that they might be in the ark in Moses's time and in Jeremiah's time, when they are said to be hid, though they were not in Solomon's: and others have taken notice, that the preposition εν sometimes signifies "at", or "with", as in Col_3:1 and so the sense is, that these were near unto it in the most holy place, and might be in the sides of it, though not within it; for there were places in the sides of the ark to put things into, Deu_31:26. And certain it is from the above account from Scripture, that they were near it; and so, by the Jewish writers, they are always mentioned along with it: when that was carried away, and hid, they were hid with it; but what a certain Jewish commentator (l) observes on 1Ki_8:9 is so express, as if it was designed to vindicate our apostle: his remark is this:

"the intention of this is not to deny that there were not the things mentioned in the law, for they were מונחים בו, "left in it", as Aaron's "rod", and "the pot of manna", only to deny, hereby, that there was not anything of the law, save the decalogue.''


I'm at work right now and don't have the time to dig for the actual Scriptures, but I too thought it contained a part of the rod, the Tablets on which the Laws were written on, as well as manna

Fenris
May 3rd 2016, 02:50 PM
I saw a movie in which it was full of scary ghosts. :o

trance750
May 3rd 2016, 02:57 PM
I saw a movie in which it was full of scary ghosts. :o

And it melted some dude's face

Fenris
May 3rd 2016, 02:58 PM
And it melted some dude's face

Yeah that totally happened!. Uh, in the movie anyway. But he was a bad guy so it's ok.

Fenris
May 3rd 2016, 03:00 PM
The only thing INSIDE the Ark was the Ten Commandments. Those other articles were on the table beside the Ark.

Yes, exactly what I was taught. Also that all those objects are hidden together, possibly under the temple mount.

watchinginawe
May 3rd 2016, 03:03 PM
Yes, exactly what I was taught. Also that all those objects are hidden together, possibly under the temple mount.

Weren't some of those items missing before the Temple was ever constructed?

John 8:32
May 3rd 2016, 03:07 PM
Yes, exactly what I was taught. Also that all those objects are hidden together, possibly under the temple mount.

Seems the most likely. There are theories about Jeremiah and Baruch taking the princess Tea Tephi and the Ark to Ireland. That is possible also, who knows?

trance750
May 3rd 2016, 03:15 PM
Weren't some of those items missing before the Temple was ever constructed?

No. From my understanding, they were housed in the original Temple (Solomon's Temple), then when Solomon went astray and led Israel into idol worshiping, they were lost during the 1st invasion of Babylon. I have heard that the God commanded the Queen of Sheba to remove them from the Temple and take them to Ethiopia

I have heard they were buried under the Temple Mount

I have heard that The Lord Himself took them from earth and they are now in the Holy Temple in Heaven

follower777
May 3rd 2016, 03:55 PM
I saw a movie in which it was full of scary ghosts.

I saw that one... the message was true enough though. Woe to the man aiming to defile that which is holy.

Joshua 3:5 And Joshua said unto the people, Sanctify yourselves: for to morrow the LORD will do wonders among you.


And it melted some dude's face

I'd say this was noteworthy, considering that no flesh can glory in His presence.

Fenris
May 3rd 2016, 03:58 PM
Perhaps the movie was inspired from Above...

follower777
May 3rd 2016, 04:08 PM
Perhaps the movie was inspired from Above...

Maybe, I suppose all fiction requires an element of truth. Otherwise, we might miss out on getting spooked and spilling our popcorn. Boo! :)

watchinginawe
May 3rd 2016, 05:14 PM
No. From my understanding, they were housed in the original Temple (Solomon's Temple), then when Solomon went astray and led Israel into idol worshiping, they were lost during the 1st invasion of Babylon. I have heard that the God commanded the Queen of Sheba to remove them from the Temple and take them to Ethiopia

I have heard they were buried under the Temple Mount

I have heard that The Lord Himself took them from earth and they are now in the Holy Temple in Heaven

We are told when the Ark was placed in the Temple at the dedication the following:

1 Kings 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

This is also corroborated in the 2 Chronicles telling of the dedication of the Temple as well:

2 Chronicles 5:10 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.

Now, we know that the Ark was looked into and which caused a plague when it rested in Bethshemesh:

1 Samuel 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

50,070 men it cost to take a peek. But this is where I figure the inventory of the Ark was taken. That means the other testimony in the Ark was probably removed by the Philistines.

So, anyway, unless the dedication verses can be explained in a different context, then the whole of the contents of the Ark of the Testimony never resided at the Temple.

trance750
May 3rd 2016, 05:44 PM
We are told when the Ark was placed in the Temple at the dedication the following:

1 Kings 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

This is also corroborated in the 2 Chronicles telling of the dedication of the Temple as well:

2 Chronicles 5:10 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.

Now, we know that the Ark was looked into and which caused a plague when it rested in Bethshemesh:

1 Samuel 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

50,070 men it cost to take a peek. But this is where I figure the inventory of the Ark was taken. That means the other testimony in the Ark was probably removed by the Philistines.

So, anyway, unless the dedication verses can be explained in a different context, then the whole of the contents of the Ark of the Testimony never resided at the Temple.

Then what was the partition of the Holy of Holies that separated the the Temple's Inner Chamber for?

watchinginawe
May 3rd 2016, 05:49 PM
Then what was the partition of the Holy of Holies that separated the the Temple's Inner Chamber for?

The Ark of the Covenant itself. The Ark was in tact with the stone tablets inside. It very well could be buried under the Temple, just apparently not with the budding staff and the golden urn of manna.

I'm up for suggestions, but the text seems clear.

Fenris
May 3rd 2016, 06:14 PM
2 Macabees 2 says that Jeremiah hid it on mt Nebo. FWIW

Stonesoffire
May 3rd 2016, 08:01 PM
I've always viewed the ark as the body of Jesus, and Paul teaches our life is hid in Him. Plus the scriptures speaks of the law being written on our hearts...we are in Him, He is in us by His Spirit...one.

follower777
May 3rd 2016, 10:53 PM
I've always viewed the ark as the body of Jesus, and Paul teaches our life is hid in Him. Plus the scriptures speaks of the law being written on our hearts...we are in Him, He is in us by His Spirit...one.

I think this is it! :thumbsup:

chad
May 3rd 2016, 11:32 PM
Manna (Bread)
- OT Gods supply and provision of bread from heaven for bodily nourishment for the Israelites (John 6:31).
- NT Jesus is the bread of life (Symbolic of Spiritual nourishment for mankind - John 6:32-40)

Tablets- Covenant
OT – On tablets were the law of the Covenant of Moses (Heb 9:4)
NT – The New Covenant of the Blood of Christ (Mt 26:28)

Staff (Rod) - showing authority and ruler ship

Rod H4294. matteh, mat-teh'; or (fem.) mattah, mat-taw'; from H5186; a branch (as extending); fig. a tribe; also a rod, whether for chastising (fig. correction), ruling (a sceptre), throwing (a lance), or walking (a staff; fig. a support of life, e.g. bread):--rod, staff, tribe.

OT – Rod/Ruling scepter (Ex 4:20)
NT – Rod of Iron (Rev 12:5)

John 8:32
May 4th 2016, 12:52 PM
There are actually two Arks, one on earth which is a copy of the one in heaven...

Heb 9:23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Stonesoffire
May 5th 2016, 01:38 AM
The earthly ark has no purpose now. Other than archeology if found.

Cyberseeker
May 6th 2016, 11:04 AM
Thanks everybody. I put this same question on a number of Christian forums and got some interesting answers. I’m pleased to say, most people agreed on the ‘manna’. Aarons staff and the tablets were quite a potpourri though. Anyway, here is a summary of how New Testament folk described the Old Testament symbols:


MANNA – Jesus the Bread of Life from Heaven. (as opposed to temporary sustenance)
Others thought the manna represented: the Eucharist (specifically), God's provision (generally), or the Word of God.

AARONS STAFF – Christ’s Eternal Priesthood. (as opposed to a priesthood that died)
Others thought the staff represented: God's authority (as in ruling with a rod of iron), guidance and comfort, resurrection (from dead wood to life) and the ‘Way.’

TABLETS OF STONE – The Law and Righteousness of God. (in its fullest sense)
Others thought the tablets represented: The New Covenant, God's will, Moses law fulfilled (but not annulled), God's government, the Word of God, the Word made flesh, the ‘Truth.’



Ive tried to express the gist of how the majority of replies understand it. Personally, I agree with the bolded statements above, but tell me if you think it can be said better.

Thanks again,
Cyber

chad
May 6th 2016, 11:19 PM
Imo, the Manna, Aaron’s staff, and the tablets of stone can represent more than just one thing in the NT.

MANNA – Jesus the Bread of Life from Heaven.
In the OT, it was bread given to Israel for food so they would not die in the desert.
Others thought the manna represented: the Eucharist (specifically)


ADD: The bread of life is also represented in the Eucharist (Communion). Jesus said – take the bread and the cup in remembrance of me. The bread symbolizing his body, which he sacrificed on the cross and the cup which represents the cup of suffering he had to suffer and the new covenant in Jesus blood, which was poured out for us (Luke 22:19-20).

During the Eucharist we eat the bread and drink of the cup (Food – symbolic of the bread of life). We do this in remembrance of Jesus and also in baptism we partake in his death and resurrection, and also the Eucharist in remembrance of his death and resurrection.


TABLETS OF STONE – The Law and Righteousness of God. (in its fullest sense)

Others thought the tablets represented: The New Covenant, God's will, Moses law fulfilled (but not annulled), God's government, the Word of God, the Word made flesh, the ‘Truth.’


Add: On the tablets of stone were written the commandments of God, given to Moses – under the covenant. Jesus came to fulfill the law and with a New Covenant the NT writes of the Law of the Spirit, which is written not on stone tablets, but on the hearts of believers (Heb 1:14-18).


AARONS STAFF – Christ’s Eternal Priesthood. (as opposed to a priesthood that died)
Others thought the staff represented: God's authority (as in ruling with a rod of iron), guidance and comfort, resurrection (from dead wood to life) and the ‘Way.’

ADD: In the NT, the Iron Rod represents Jesus Authority in heaven and in earth (Rev 12:5;Rev 19:5).


ADD : Just as the Ark in the OT was a dwelling place for the Spirit of God. Paul writes in the NT –

(1 Cor 3:16 KJV) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


The law is no longer written on stone tablets, but on the hearts of believers

(Heb 10:14 KJV) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

(Heb 10:15 KJV) Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

(Heb 10:16 KJV) This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

(Heb 10:17 KJV) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

(Heb 10:18 KJV) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.






Thanks everybody. I put this same question on a number of Christian forums and got some interesting answers. I’m pleased to say, most people agreed on the ‘manna’. Aarons staff and the tablets were quite a potpourri though. Anyway, here is a summary of how New Testament folk described the Old Testament symbols:
MANNA – Jesus the Bread of Life from Heaven. (as opposed to temporary sustenance)
Others thought the manna represented: the Eucharist (specifically), God's provision (generally), or the Word of God.

AARONS STAFF – Christ’s Eternal Priesthood. (as opposed to a priesthood that died)
Others thought the staff represented: God's authority (as in ruling with a rod of iron), guidance and comfort, resurrection (from dead wood to life) and the ‘Way.’

TABLETS OF STONE – The Law and Righteousness of God. (in its fullest sense)
Others thought the tablets represented: The New Covenant, God's will, Moses law fulfilled (but not annulled), God's government, the Word of God, the Word made flesh, the ‘Truth.’



Ive tried to express the gist of how the majority of replies understand it. Personally, I agree with the bolded statements above, but tell me if you think it can be said better.

Thanks again,
Cyber