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Semi-tortured
May 13th 2016, 03:57 AM
This my first post in a while...a long while. I've been having a real hard time with the way Jesus said he was coming soon. All the verses that speak of his return seem to indicate it was going to happen in the first century. I'm not looking for end times prophecy. I'm wondering how the text seems like it is imminent, yet it's been 2000 years. I have googled all over and none of the answers seem satisfactory. It's the, 1 day is a thousand years argument, those sorts of things. Can anyone direct me to a good explanation?

Old man
May 13th 2016, 05:03 AM
This my first post in a while...a long while. I've been having a real hard time with the way Jesus said he was coming soon. All the verses that speak of his return seem to indicate it was going to happen in the first century. I'm not looking for end times prophecy. I'm wondering how the text seems like it is imminent, yet it's been 2000 years. I have googled all over and none of the answers seem satisfactory. It's the, 1 day is a thousand years argument, those sorts of things. Can anyone direct me to a good explanation?

Personally I think many take the 1 day is as a thousand years way to literal in application. All it is saying is that God's timing is not governed by how we view the passing of time. But regardless He is on time in everything He does.

Uncle Bud
May 13th 2016, 11:13 AM
That is why I turned to partial preterism.

The first part of the Olivet Discourse deal with the Destruction of Jerusalem. The second part with the Second Coming. Matthew 25:14 says he went to a far country, and verse 19 says after a long time He returns. So the Destruction of Jerusalem was indeed first century, but His Second Coming in the distant future.

Luke 20:9 says he went into a far country for a long time.

The "quickly" passages in Revelation 22 could mean how (suddenly) He will come, not when. "Shortly must come to pass" verses in other parts of Revelation could mean the events may begin fulfillment shortly, not finish fulfillment. Historicism teaches Revelation covers the entire church history starting in John's time, to the Second Coming into Eternity, not confined to the last seven years before the End.

RogerW
May 13th 2016, 02:42 PM
This my first post in a while...a long while. I've been having a real hard time with the way Jesus said he was coming soon. All the verses that speak of his return seem to indicate it was going to happen in the first century. I'm not looking for end times prophecy. I'm wondering how the text seems like it is imminent, yet it's been 2000 years. I have googled all over and none of the answers seem satisfactory. It's the, 1 day is a thousand years argument, those sorts of things. Can anyone direct me to a good explanation?

When Christ says His coming is soon, or quickly, He doesn't mean His coming is imminent. But shows us the certainty of His return. His words of coming soon or quickly are a recurring phrase in Rev (2:16, 25; 22:7, 12; see also Zech. 2:10). Centuries have come and gone but we continue to pray "come Lord Jesus". There is no evidence as to when He will come, but a certain knowing that His return is without delay, for all things are progressing as the Kingdom of God is being completed. For this reason James tells us we must continue in patience knowing with blessed assurance that Christ will come again. And for those who are not looking for His coming it will come upon them suddenly and without warning. But to us who look for and patiently wait for His coming, it will not take us by surprise, for we know without doubt that the Lord will come again on the last day when the Kingdom of God through the message of the Gospel is complete.

Jas*5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

1Th*5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th*5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th*5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th*5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th*5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Blessings,
RW

Semi-tortured
May 15th 2016, 12:42 AM
That is why I turned to partial preterism.

The first part of the Olivet Discourse deal with the Destruction of Jerusalem. The second part with the Second Coming. Matthew 25:14 says he went to a far country, and verse 19 says after a long time He returns. So the Destruction of Jerusalem was indeed first century, but His Second Coming in the distant future.

Luke 20:9 says he went into a far country for a long time.

The "quickly" passages in Revelation 22 could mean how (suddenly) He will come, not when. "Shortly must come to pass" verses in other parts of Revelation could mean the events may begin fulfillment shortly, not finish fulfillment. Historicism teaches Revelation covers the entire church history starting in John's time, to the Second Coming into Eternity, not confined to the last seven years before the End.

So where is the cut off? The abomination of desolation...that's the first century and everything else is future? The problems really start to deepen for me when "generations" start to come up. Like Matthew 24:33-35

33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

It just seems like it is all the same conversation and train of thought. I have looked into Partial Preterism, and so much of that makes sense, especially when you take Revelation into account. I mean, Jesus speaks of his own second coming as sudden, like a thief in the night. If the things going down in Revelation are literal, I'm not sure how all the seals/trumpets could be going off and no one realizes what's coming.

But I don't want this to become an End Times thread as there is a forum for that. But I felt that this is the biggest "hole" in the Bible for me and apologetics is more about answering the tough questions.

Uncle Bud
May 15th 2016, 01:09 AM
Matthew 24:1-35 is destruction of Jerusalem, rest of chapter and next is Second Coming.

bluesky22
May 15th 2016, 07:25 AM
That is why I turned to partial preterism.

The first part of the Olivet Discourse deal with the Destruction of Jerusalem. The second part with the Second Coming. Matthew 25:14 says he went to a far country, and verse 19 says after a long time He returns. So the Destruction of Jerusalem was indeed first century, but His Second Coming in the distant future.

Luke 20:9 says he went into a far country for a long time.

The "quickly" passages in Revelation 22 could mean how (suddenly) He will come, not when. "Shortly must come to pass" verses in other parts of Revelation could mean the events may begin fulfillment shortly, not finish fulfillment. Historicism teaches Revelation covers the entire church history starting in John's time, to the Second Coming into Eternity, not confined to the last seven years before the End.

I to have turned to PP (Partial Preterism):):thumbsup:

Uncle Bud
May 15th 2016, 01:08 PM
I to have turned to PP (Partial Preterism):):thumbsup:
If it weren't for a few passages I would be a full Preterist.

Uncle Bud
May 15th 2016, 08:04 PM
How does 2 Peter 3:4 tie into the disproving of 6,000 year limit?

amazzin
May 15th 2016, 08:41 PM
You sound like the church in Thessalionca who were all nuts when people started to die and Jesus had not yet returned. It had become such a problem that Paul had to write a letter about this. Read 2 Thess and you will see we need not worry about this like its an impending doom. He encourages the church and us in 2 Thess 3:13 to simple by busy waiting

CurtTN
May 15th 2016, 11:12 PM
This my first post in a while...a long while. I've been having a real hard time with the way Jesus said he was coming soon. All the verses that speak of his return seem to indicate it was going to happen in the first century. I'm not looking for end times prophecy. I'm wondering how the text seems like it is imminent, yet it's been 2000 years. I have googled all over and none of the answers seem satisfactory. It's the, 1 day is a thousand years argument, those sorts of things. Can anyone direct me to a good explanation?

Two points. Stay with the 1 day = 1,000 year argument for a moment. Using that argument the early days (day 1 & 2) were when God dealt with man in general. That didn't work out so in the middle days (day 3 & 4) He called out Israel and worked with them to expect Jesus. That didn't work out either so in the last days ( day 5 & 6) He called out the church. That also didn't work so well all of which proves why we need grace and Jesus blood. But we are in the last days and so by that terminology Jesus is coming soon.

God created time for man. God does not experience time and neither does Jesus. When you consider eternity, a few thousand years is but a fraction of a second.

By the way, the 7th day will be the millennial reign of Jesus.

CurtTN
May 15th 2016, 11:31 PM
That is why I turned to partial preterism.

The first part of the Olivet Discourse deal with the Destruction of Jerusalem. The second part with the Second Coming.

Several problems with this argument.
1) Vs 15 specifically speaks of the Aof D "standing" in the Holy Place. This did not occur in 70 AD.

2) Vs 21 requires the mentioned future great tribulation to be the worst ever or ever would be again. 70 AD is not greater than the great tribulation of Revelation.

3) In Vs 29 Jesus says He will come "immediately" after the tribulation of those days and gather His elect. This did not happen in 70 AD.


Matthew 25:14 says he went to a far country, and verse 19 says after a long time He returns. So the Destruction of Jerusalem was indeed first century, but His Second Coming in the distant future.

Luke 20:9 says he went into a far country for a long time.

Another example where people add their own interpretation and claim it as fact. The parable in question is about the talents and says the Kingdom of God "is as" a man who went into a far country. Here Jesus is using a parable to show how God will judge the world and you make it about the time between Jesus leaving and return.



The "quickly" passages in Revelation 22 could mean how (suddenly) He will come, not when. "Shortly must come to pass" verses in other parts of Revelation could mean the events may begin fulfillment shortly, not finish fulfillment. Historicism teaches Revelation covers the entire church history starting in John's time, to the Second Coming into Eternity, not confined to the last seven years before the End.

If you say so. As I read Revelation I find that each vision has it's own time line. Don't know what "Historicism has to do with it. Bot Jesus and John refer to the book as prophesy and that is how I take it.

Uncle Bud
May 16th 2016, 12:06 AM
Two points. Stay with the 1 day = 1,000 year argument for a moment. Using that argument the early days (day 1 & 2) were when God dealt with man in general. That didn't work out so in the middle days (day 3 & 4) He called out Israel and worked with them to expect Jesus. That didn't work out either so in the last days ( day 5 & 6) He called out the church. That also didn't work so well all of which proves why we need grace and Jesus blood. But we are in the last days and so by that terminology Jesus is coming soon.

God created time for man. God does not experience time and neither does Jesus. When you consider eternity, a few thousand years is but a fraction of a second.

By the way, the 7th day will be the millennial reign of Jesus.

Did Jesus have to return around 2000 to be at end of "6th day"?

randyk
May 16th 2016, 10:11 PM
Several problems with this argument.
1) Vs 15 specifically speaks of the Aof D "standing" in the Holy Place. This did not occur in 70 AD.

2) Vs 21 requires the mentioned future great tribulation to be the worst ever or ever would be again. 70 AD is not greater than the great tribulation of Revelation.

3) In Vs 29 Jesus says He will come "immediately" after the tribulation of those days and gather His elect. This did not happen in 70 AD.

Another example where people add their own interpretation and claim it as fact. The parable in question is about the talents and says the Kingdom of God "is as" a man who went into a far country. Here Jesus is using a parable to show how God will judge the world and you make it about the time between Jesus leaving and return.
If you say so. As I read Revelation I find that each vision has it's own time line. Don't know what "Historicism has to do with it. Bot Jesus and John refer to the book as prophesy and that is how I take it.

Hi Curt: I'm afraid we're going to have a few differences, but I love hearing from you and factoring into my thinking your views. Please feel free to be a "opinionated" as you like. The stronger the assertion the more you invite a balanced perspective. ;)

I wouldn't say I'm a Partial Preterist but I do have the conviction that the main focus of the Olivet Discourse was on the historical destruction of the temple in 70 AD. That being said, there was a question as well about Jesus' Coming? So I believe there were two emphases by Jesus--one on the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and one on Jesus' Coming.

I'm not a Preterist because I don't believe Jesus actually *came* in 70 AD. And I *do* believe in a future Antichrist and in his 3.5 years reign. Furthermore, I believe in Israel's national and spiritual restoration after Jesus' returns.

Clearly, not everything got fulfilled in the 1st generation after Jesus' death. What I actually believe is that Jesus suggested a great tribulation for the Jews would only *begin* in his days. Since the Jewish diaspora was already in play at that time what Jesus meant was that the beginning stirrings of a greater tribulation were on the horizon. Like a tree budding new leaves in Spring, and like a pregnant mother about to give birth, this tribulation was coming for the Jews in the form of a Roman invasion.

So, in the 1st Jewish War 66-70 AD (though ongoing), this great tribulation actually began, in my thinking. The temple ultimately was destroyed. But Jesus indicated that great tribulation would continue for the Jews throughout this age.

Furthermore, Christians would suffer as well from the hostile state of the world, both towards Jews and Christians. This tribulational era would only be completed at the Coming of Christ. And somewhere, just before Christ comes back, there will be a confederation of 10 nations under the Antichrist who will severely persecute Christians in at least some areas of the world. I *know* you are Postribulational! ;)

But go ahead and express any objections you may have?

CurtTN
May 16th 2016, 11:52 PM
Hi Curt: I'm afraid we're going to have a few differences, but I love hearing from you and factoring into my thinking your views. Please feel free to be a "opinionated" as you like. The stronger the assertion the more you invite a balanced perspective. ;)

I wouldn't say I'm a Partial Preterist but I do have the conviction that the main focus of the Olivet Discourse was on the historical destruction of the temple in 70 AD. That being said, there was a question as well about Jesus' Coming? So I believe there were two emphases by Jesus--one on the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and one on Jesus' Coming.

I'm not a Preterist because I don't believe Jesus actually *came* in 70 AD. And I *do* believe in a future Antichrist and in his 3.5 years reign. Furthermore, I believe in Israel's national and spiritual restoration after Jesus' returns.

Clearly, not everything got fulfilled in the 1st generation after Jesus' death. What I actually believe is that Jesus suggested a great tribulation for the Jews would only *begin* in his days. Since the Jewish diaspora was already in play at that time what Jesus meant was that the beginning stirrings of a greater tribulation were on the horizon. Like a tree budding new leaves in Spring, and like a pregnant mother about to give birth, this tribulation was coming for the Jews in the form of a Roman invasion.

So, in the 1st Jewish War 66-70 AD (though ongoing), this great tribulation actually began, in my thinking. The temple ultimately was destroyed. But Jesus indicated that great tribulation would continue for the Jews throughout this age.

Furthermore, Christians would suffer as well from the hostile state of the world, both towards Jews and Christians. This tribulational era would only be completed at the Coming of Christ. And somewhere, just before Christ comes back, there will be a confederation of 10 nations under the Antichrist who will severely persecute Christians in at least some areas of the world. I *know* you are Postribulational! ;)

But go ahead and express any objections you may have?

If I grasp your point, it is that the GT began in 70 AD and has continued and will continue through the second coming. Is that correct?

My first objection to that thought is that it seems more like an assumption designed to support the PP position than one based on strict reading of scripture. I don't recall any scripture that suggests we are in the tribulation now and it makes the second half of Daniel's 70th week of little import. While this position may get you around my point 3 it does not help with points 1 & 2.

What verse suggests that Jesus "indicated" that the GT would continue through this age?

My biggest problem with the OD and the 70 AD links is that most people that see the temple destruction in Matt 24 is solely because of verses 1 & 2. Here Jesus and disciples are actually AT the temple but in verse 3 till the end of the total discussion they are on the M of O. Now they clearly had to walk there and it took some time and we can assume they continued talking about all sorts of things including the end times. Now reread verse 3 and see if you see as I do, that without the misleading of verse 1 & 2 there is nothing in 3 that ties back to the temple destruction discussion. That is why I conclude that 24 is all about end times.

Your turn my friend!

Tony P
May 17th 2016, 05:49 AM
This my first post in a while...a long while. I've been having a real hard time with the way Jesus said he was coming soon. All the verses that speak of his return seem to indicate it was going to happen in the first century. I'm not looking for end times prophecy. I'm wondering how the text seems like it is imminent, yet it's been 2000 years. I have googled all over and none of the answers seem satisfactory. It's the, 1 day is a thousand years argument, those sorts of things. Can anyone direct me to a good explanation?

Perspective. That is the answer. We humans are very short-sighted with very little patience. We think soon must mean soon within our own lives. As if the whole creation revolves around ourselves. Jesus has lived, is living, and will live for eternity. What is a couple of thousand years compared to that? Not much. Once the old order of things passes away and we too are immortal, I think we will be able to understand such timing. Until then many of us remain impatient and selfish. Yes, selfish. Doesn't Jesus deserve a great kingdom, huge with as many people as possible? Of course. Why then should we always seek to hurry up the process? We do this because we are selfish and don't really care about what Jesus wants. We only care about what we want. Perspective.

Jesus made multiple illusions to the fact that he would be gone a long time, by our selfish human standards. The parable of the Talents, Matt 25. The parable of the Minas, Luke 19. Jesus also said this:

John 14:2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

What is that "place"? The New Jerusalem, Revelation 21. This "place" is 1500 cubic miles and could house billions of people. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Jesus would be gone a long time, by human standards, so that his house would have time to fill up. The perspective of the Kingdom of God is far different than a selfish human perspective. Get the proper perspective and the "coming soon" deal wont bother you at all. Let the glory of his kingdom grow!

CurtTN
May 28th 2016, 12:23 AM
Did Jesus have to return around 2000 to be at end of "6th day"?

Sorry for the late reply. Thought I had replied but while here today saw that I didn't.

Since I consider the "middle days to end at the death of Christ, then the last days are just about to end. Some time between now and about 2030 depending on the actual date of Jesus birth and death which we don't really know. It is close though.

Semi-tortured
May 30th 2016, 07:24 PM
Hi Curt: I'm afraid we're going to have a few differences, but I love hearing from you and factoring into my thinking your views. Please feel free to be a "opinionated" as you like. The stronger the assertion the more you invite a balanced perspective. ;)

I wouldn't say I'm a Partial Preterist but I do have the conviction that the main focus of the Olivet Discourse was on the historical destruction of the temple in 70 AD. That being said, there was a question as well about Jesus' Coming? So I believe there were two emphases by Jesus--one on the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and one on Jesus' Coming.

I'm not a Preterist because I don't believe Jesus actually *came* in 70 AD. And I *do* believe in a future Antichrist and in his 3.5 years reign. Furthermore, I believe in Israel's national and spiritual restoration after Jesus' returns.

Clearly, not everything got fulfilled in the 1st generation after Jesus' death. What I actually believe is that Jesus suggested a great tribulation for the Jews would only *begin* in his days. Since the Jewish diaspora was already in play at that time what Jesus meant was that the beginning stirrings of a greater tribulation were on the horizon. Like a tree budding new leaves in Spring, and like a pregnant mother about to give birth, this tribulation was coming for the Jews in the form of a Roman invasion.

So, in the 1st Jewish War 66-70 AD (though ongoing), this great tribulation actually began, in my thinking. The temple ultimately was destroyed. But Jesus indicated that great tribulation would continue for the Jews throughout this age.

Furthermore, Christians would suffer as well from the hostile state of the world, both towards Jews and Christians. This tribulational era would only be completed at the Coming of Christ. And somewhere, just before Christ comes back, there will be a confederation of 10 nations under the Antichrist who will severely persecute Christians in at least some areas of the world. I *know* you are Postribulational! ;)

But go ahead and express any objections you may have?
This is kind of where I'm standing right now on the discourse. Two different questions were asked before Jesus went into his answer. I think, looking carefully, it seems like the "this generation" stuff in that particular place were in reference to the temple being destroyed. And then the end times stuff was answered later in the discourse as if He were answering the second question. It does beg the question though, how can Revelation be happening and all those crazy trumpets, seals, etc, yet people are coming and going and marrying and being given in marriage like in the days of Noah before Jesus returns. It seems impossible for Jesus to come like a thief in the night when the Earth is being destroyed.

RogerW
May 30th 2016, 07:35 PM
This is kind of where I'm standing right now on the discourse. Two different questions were asked before Jesus went into his answer. I think, looking carefully, it seems like the "this generation" stuff in that particular place were in reference to the temple being destroyed. And then the end times stuff was answered later in the discourse as if He were answering the second question. It does beg the question though, how can Revelation be happening and all those crazy trumpets, seals, etc, yet people are coming and going and marrying and being given in marriage like in the days of Noah before Jesus returns. It seems impossible for Jesus to come like a thief in the night when the Earth is being destroyed.

If all that is written regarding these last days that we are living in, is being spiritually fulfilled, can you then see how Christ's coming again will go unnoticed by those who have not the Spirit in them to discern. The things of God must be spiritually discerned, and that is not possible for those who will be surprised, and not expecting His coming. People are too caught up in looking for physical fulfillment for a spiritual Kingdom.

1Co*2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co*2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co*2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co*2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co*2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth [discerns; examines] all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co*2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Blessings,
RW

Tony P
Jun 2nd 2016, 01:36 AM
This is kind of where I'm standing right now on the discourse. Two different questions were asked before Jesus went into his answer. I think, looking carefully, it seems like the "this generation" stuff in that particular place were in reference to the temple being destroyed. And then the end times stuff was answered later in the discourse as if He were answering the second question. It does beg the question though, how can Revelation be happening and all those crazy trumpets, seals, etc, yet people are coming and going and marrying and being given in marriage like in the days of Noah before Jesus returns. It seems impossible for Jesus to come like a thief in the night when the Earth is being destroyed.

Ah, you've hit on a very important point! When Jesus returns to rule and reign, it will not be a surprise. From Daniel, 1290 days after the AoD is set up. From Revelation, 1260 days after the beast is let loose, etc. That is why the Pre-trib rapture is a fact. The church is removed before the trumpets and bowls of wrath in Revelation 8-16. Notice the large multitude standing before the throne of God in chapter 7. It isn't a coincidence. Jesus told us to watch and be ready for He comes at an hour we do not expect. That can only be true for a rapture that precedes the wrath of God.

David Taylor
Jun 3rd 2016, 02:22 PM
Ah, you've hit on a very important point! When Jesus returns to rule and reign, it will not be a surprise. From Daniel, 1290 days after the AoD is set up. From Revelation, 1260 days after the beast is let loose, etc. That is why the Pre-trib rapture is a fact. The church is removed before the trumpets and bowls of wrath in Revelation 8-16. Notice the large multitude standing before the throne of God in chapter 7. It isn't a coincidence. Jesus told us to watch and be ready for He comes at an hour we do not expect. That can only be true for a rapture that precedes the wrath of God.

The great multitude found around the throne in Revelation chapter 7 aren't their because of a pretrib rapture; (Revelation doesn't mention a pre-trib rapture of anygroup of people.)
Rather, the great multitude found around the throne is a picture of the redeemed of all ages, from every tongue, tribe, and nation; who were faithful belivers of Christ.

That throng has been assembling intself (via natural death) for dozens of centuries.

It contains people who have died and gone to be with the Lord like John the Baptist, Stephen, Peter, Justin Martyr, John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, and one day pretty soon as his health and age continue to fail, Billy Graham.

They all came out of great tribulation; living their lives for Christ unto death; but they knew as Christ and the scriptures say; tribulation is a just cause for the faithful.

Deuteronomy 4:30
"When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; For the LORD thy God is a merciful God; he will not forsake thee"

I Samuel 10:19, 26:24
"God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; so let my life be much set by in the eyes of the LORD, and let him deliver me out of all tribulation. "

John 16:33
Jesus said, "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

Acts 14:22
"exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God."

Romans 5:1
"our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope"

Romans 8:35
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us."

II Corinthians 1:3
"Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. I am filled with comfort, I am
exceeding joyful in all our tribulation. "

I Thessalonians 3:3
"That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto. For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know."

II Thessalonians 1:4
"So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing"

Revelation 1:9
"I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation"

And arguably the best passage in all of scripture that shows how Christians stand firm during all tribulations great and small; is this:

I Peter 4:12
"Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."

TheDivineWatermark
Jun 3rd 2016, 03:12 PM
This is kind of where I'm standing right now on the discourse. Two different questions were asked before Jesus went into his answer. I think, looking carefully, it seems like the "this generation" stuff in that particular place were in reference to the temple being destroyed. And then the end times stuff was answered later in the discourse as if He were answering the second question. It does beg the question though, how can Revelation be happening and all those crazy trumpets, seals, etc, yet people are coming and going and marrying and being given in marriage like in the days of Noah before Jesus returns. It seems impossible for Jesus to come like a thief in the night when the Earth is being destroyed.

Regarding the bold ^

Revelation 16:15-16 says, "15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

I think all here agree that His Second Coming (to the earth) happens at the time of Armageddon (Revelation 19), and yet here He is indeed saying, "Behold, I come as a thief."

(note: the passages where the addition of "in the night" is found, has to do with 'the time period' ['the Day of the Lord'] which will arrive and exist on the earth preceding the arrival of the Person of Christ Himself at Armageddon [His 2nd Coming to the earth, Revelation 16:15-16, and chpt 19--'the Day of the Lord' continues on, following that as well])

I believe the passages where it says, as the days of Noah were, that this has more to do with the attitudes of the lost being referred to, rather than their activities... as the days of Noah were, "they [those ultimately judged in the flood] knew not until the flood came, and took them all away" shows that they ignored the truths being proclaimed (ahead of the rains) by Noah, not to mention by his long-time preparing of the ark. I believe this will also be the case during the entire 7-yr tribulation period, for those who continue to ignore and reject the Truth which will be being proclaimed (in many ways) during that time as well. (eating and drinking... marrying... the basics of life... rather than giving attention to the truth of "coming judgment" [believing the lie instead--2 Thessalonians 2:10-12])


(just to be clear, I do believe the rapture of the Church which is His body will occur pre-trib/pre-70th Week :) ... but that [I]the context of the above passages is His Second Coming to the earth)

Pbminimum
Jun 3rd 2016, 05:37 PM
This my first post in a while...a long while. I've been having a real hard time with the way Jesus said he was coming soon. All the verses that speak of his return seem to indicate it was going to happen in the first century. I'm not looking for end times prophecy. I'm wondering how the text seems like it is imminent, yet it's been 2000 years. I have googled all over and none of the answers seem satisfactory. It's the, 1 day is a thousand years argument, those sorts of things. Can anyone direct me to a good explanation?

Mercy. This is why I believe it has been so long. It is the will of God that all come to repentance. He's longsuffering.