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kgnilla
May 19th 2016, 04:02 AM
I have a strange question. I've been having doubts in my faith and just need some reassurance.

Why do we pray if it's always going to end up being God's call anyway?

For example.
If a loved one has cancer, I would ask my family and friends to pray for that person. For them to heal that person and let them survive.

What would it matter for all of us to pray if it was Gods will for that person to die?
Why bother to ask? Even if you want it, God doesn't want it for you. It wasn't in His plans.

Why would I pray for something unreasonable? What if I pray for me to have lost a friendship. And I ask God to rekindle our friendship.. He did not plan that for me and that's why we drifted apart.

I'm confused with "free will" and God's plan. God loves us and doesn't want us to sin but he gives us free will to make good or bad choices.
What's the difference between God's plan and you creating your own destiny?

Sorry, my mind is all over the place tonight. Rough month.

Blain
May 19th 2016, 04:45 AM
No worries you are asking a very good question.
Firstly what is prayer? For me it's much much more than asking him for things for me it's how he and I speak to each other how we get to know each other it's how he and I pour our deepest and most intimate feelings into each others hearts it's how he often times speaks to me and through me and it is often times the most beautiful and most cherished times I have with him.

But as for asking for things true it may not be his will for a loved one to be cured of cancer but it also could be the answer is not solely dependent on him he gives us a say in the matter as well to a certain degree. the closer you and him become the deeper the bond connection and love with you and him become the more your heart begins to develop his desires you begin to see as he does to love as he does your desires begin to become his desires your ways of thinking ways of doing things begin to match his and so you naturally will begin to ask according to his will.

You see sometimes on my walks I see an ambulance or a firetruck zoom by with their sirens on now I have seen many times that ppl die in when you see this for whatever reason, and when thinking about a person dying whether they are saved or lost whether they are pure in heart and good ppl or whether they are the most sinful most cruel and most dark of hearts I begin to have tears and a deep pain in my chest like a white hot blade and I pray and beg him to take my life instead Pour my heart out to him I explain to him I don't care what I have to go through I don't care if I have to die a painful death I told him I don't care if he takes every treasure every honor every crown or title anything and everything he has to give me in heaven even if I just live in a cardboard box in his kingdom if he would only spare them and take me in their place.

Now obviously I am am alive but I hope he saw my deep desire and willingness to take their place and accepted it as if I had actually paid for it with my life. they say your desires can sometimes affect your dreams I had a dream a while back in which I saw a dead person and death himself was standing over them I had a fire in my heart and a fire in my voice as I demanded the words you will take me. I didn't just say it I demanded it and in my voice was such a fire such a deep and profound love and protection for them.

I truly believe this dream was God showing me my heart, his love affects my prayers what I ask for what I say and so he will do the same with anyone who seeks a deeper love and bond with him

Longsufferer
May 19th 2016, 07:45 AM
Because Christ commands us to pray always, and not to give up, which ought to be a good enough reason for any; beside that, we are suppose to deny our own will, if we are to be worthy of following Christ. (Luke 18:1) (Matthew 16:24)

shepherdsword
May 19th 2016, 09:09 AM
When we pray we develop intimacy with the Lord. This connection tunes us into what His will is for any given situation. We then pray according to His will. God does hear prayers of desperation in moments of crisis but the idea is that we pray even when things are going well. Our prayer time is an opportunity for us to petition God for our heart's desires but the main reason for it is to develop a loving relationship. There are instances where God has laid aside His perfect will to answer those He has this sort of relationship with.

RogerW
May 19th 2016, 11:02 AM
I have a strange question. I've been having doubts in my faith and just need some reassurance.

Why do we pray if it's always going to end up being God's call anyway?

For example.
If a loved one has cancer, I would ask my family and friends to pray for that person. For them to heal that person and let them survive.

What would it matter for all of us to pray if it was Gods will for that person to die?
Why bother to ask? Even if you want it, God doesn't want it for you. It wasn't in His plans.

Why would I pray for something unreasonable? What if I pray for me to have lost a friendship. And I ask God to rekindle our friendship.. He did not plan that for me and that's why we drifted apart.

I'm confused with "free will" and God's plan. God loves us and doesn't want us to sin but he gives us free will to make good or bad choices.
What's the difference between God's plan and you creating your own destiny?

Sorry, my mind is all over the place tonight. Rough month.

Greetings kgnilla,

I'm sorry you are having a rough time. Prayer is indeed the place to go when we have these times of discouragement and doubt. People will often say pray as a last resort, but according to Scripture prayer is our first response. We don't pray to try to get God to change His mind about a situation. We pray always, with thanksgiving, knowing that all things work together for good to those who love Him. To those who are the called according to His purposes.

Prayer is for man! It is God's way of drawing us into a closer relationship with Him. When we pray, we pray knowing Thy will be done! Prayer takes our focus off the circumstance and puts our focus back on Him. When our focus is on Him, and not on the circumstance, then we can have peace and even joy through the circumstance, knowing that God has not abandoned us, and that this too will pass. When we remember that God is glorified even in the bad things that come to pass in this world [consider the cross] we pray as Christ did in the garden that if it by Thy will, Lord, please let this ??? pass from me. But if it be Thy will that I go through this trial, please give me your grace and comfort to know this too is the will of God for me. For His grace is enough for me, and will sustain me.

Many Blessings,
RW

chad
May 20th 2016, 01:24 AM
Prayer is an important part of the faith. Jesus prayed, the apostles and believers prayed. They taught others to pray also.

Does God answer all the prayers that we pray? imo no, but that does not mean we should not pray.

Just because God does not heal a loved one, it does not mean prayer is a waste of time.

Prayer can change circumstances, but God does not always answer prayer and change circumstances as we ask and pray.

CurtTN
May 20th 2016, 01:50 AM
Part of the faith walk is learning that God always answers our prayers. Sometimes yes, sometimes no and sometimes not now or maybe. Most of us don't ever develop that really close relationship where we consult God on most (we would hope all) items in our life. The more we ask, the more we see His answers the greater our faith grows and the greater our relationship grows. Relationship and growing faith are why we pray.

Protective Angel
May 20th 2016, 03:41 AM
Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?
25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

There are times when things just seem to be too much. I don't know what else I could pray to God about. What else I could say to Him, to change His mind. The bible says it's God will be done. All things are for the good. We just always don't see it. This is when I just pray with "please help". Just cry or ask why.

I think somewhere in the Bible it says something about our tears.

Psalms 56:8 Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?
9 When I cry unto thee, then shall mine enemies turn back: this I know; for God is for me.

Psalms 126:5 They that sow in tears shall reap in joy.

Isaiah 38:4 Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,
5 Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.

ewq1938
May 20th 2016, 04:32 AM
Why do we pray if it's always going to end up being God's call anyway?

That's why you ask according to His will not our own. Sometimes God will change his mind on something when someone asks for something. Christ prayed this exact way but on that request there could not be another way.

Blain
May 20th 2016, 04:37 AM
That's why you ask according to His will not our own. Sometimes God will change his mind on something when someone asks for something. Christ prayed this exact way but on that request there could not be another way.

The thing is it takes time and growth to ask according to his will not our own, a lot of times it's very easy to confuse the two.

kgnilla
May 20th 2016, 04:44 AM
That's why you ask according to His will not our own. Sometimes God will change his mind on something when someone asks for something. Christ prayed this exact way but on that request there could not be another way.

So does that not contradict "free will"?

ewq1938
May 20th 2016, 04:44 AM
The thing is it takes time and growth to ask according to his will not our own, a lot of times it's very easy to confuse the two.

Well people just need to say "not my will but yours" and God will understand.

kgnilla
May 20th 2016, 04:50 AM
Part of the faith walk is learning that God always answers our prayers. Sometimes yes, sometimes no and sometimes not now or maybe. Most of us don't ever develop that really close relationship where we consult God on most (we would hope all) items in our life. The more we ask, the more we see His answers the greater our faith grows and the greater our relationship grows. Relationship and growing faith are why we pray.

I understand what you are saying. However, why should we bother to lift up someone in prayer for healing for example. We ask our brothers and sisters to pray with us, to show God our hearts in hopes that He will heal the person. I just don't get what the point is if God's intention was to die anyway.

What I'm trying to say is, it feels like we are all puppets. God wants us to pray ask in His name. God also gives us free will. But no matter what choice we make, it's God's call anyway. So I don't get the point of "free will" if the ALL KNOWING GOD already knows what choice we will make. I mean he is God right? He knows our past present and future. So... What's the point? What is free will? Do we make our own choices and does God allow us to fall if we don't go by what He intended? Isn't it contradicting? How do we all have a "purpose" and God has a plan for us, yet we have free will... That is NOT free will. Because it's Gods way or the highway. That is being a puppet.

And don't get me wrong, brothers and sisters. I am a Christian simply struggling in my walk with Jesus at the moment. I just need some better understanding so I can remain strong in my faith.

ewq1938
May 20th 2016, 04:53 AM
So does that not contradict "free will"?

No, it supports free will. God has not decided everything. We have free will to choose and to ask for things but it's best to make sure we let God know we want his will more importantly than what we want and that's because God is wiser than us and knows what the best choice is.

ewq1938
May 20th 2016, 04:55 AM
God also gives us free will. But no matter what choice we make, it's God's call anyway.

People have caused God to change his mind though.

Consider King Hezekiah. God told him to get his house in order because he was about to die. Hezekiah begged the Lord to let him live, so He gave him 15 more years.

kgnilla
May 20th 2016, 04:56 AM
No, it supports free will. God has not decided everything. We have free will to choose and to ask for things but it's best to make sure we let God know we want his will more importantly than what we want and that's because God is wiser than us and knows what the best choice is.

So you're staring God has not decided everything.... But He has. He has a plan for us. It is all in His will. Whatever happens to us is His will. That's why "everything happens for a reason", right? Because it was Gods will? So His will VS free will makes no sense because you're free will is in the end, what God intended anyway. Everything happens according to His will. This is what I was taught as a Christian.

kgnilla
May 20th 2016, 04:58 AM
People have caused God to change his mind though.

Consider King Hezekiah. God told him to get his house in order because he was about to die. Hezekiah begged the Lord to let him live, so He gave him 15 more years.

How do we have the potential to change God's mind? God knows His intention with every one of us. How can we alter Gods will? I'm sorry I'm not trying to come off combative. I am truly curious.

ewq1938
May 20th 2016, 05:06 AM
How do we have the potential to change God's mind? God knows His intention with every one of us. How can we alter Gods will? I'm sorry I'm not trying to come off combative. I am truly curious.

I just proved that God's mind can be changed. God is a family member. He isn't a cold, emotionless robot. If you need something, ask him....show him your true heart, don't hide anything or hold back and ask in his will. He might agree with you. He might not. Be ok with his decision like Christ was :)

Luk_22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

kgnilla
May 20th 2016, 05:15 AM
I just proved that God's mind can be changed. God is a family member. He isn't a cold, emotionless robot. If you need something, ask him....show him your true heart, don't hide anything or hold back and ask in his will. He might agree with you. He might not. Be ok with his decision like Christ was :)

Luk_22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

So we can change Gods will? Gods will is not final? Meaning He can have multiple plans and purposes for us? Not one single divine plan in itself?

ewq1938
May 20th 2016, 05:26 AM
So we can change Gods will? Gods will is not final? Meaning He can have multiple plans and purposes for us? Not one single divine plan in itself?

Again, he decided a man should die, the man asked for more time, God changed his mind and let the man live longer.

kgnilla
May 20th 2016, 05:39 AM
Again, he decided a man should die, the man asked for more time, God changed his mind and let the man live longer.

I know you've proved it to me. I'm just having a difficult time accepting it because I don't understand how. It's been bugging me for a long time to understand why and how.

ewq1938
May 20th 2016, 05:41 AM
I know you've proved it to me. I'm just having a difficult time accepting it because I don't understand how. It's been bugging me for a long time to understand why and how.

That's understandable. I just want to show the possibility. Whether we experience that in our lives is not something we can know but it is possible.

RogerW
May 20th 2016, 12:18 PM
How do we have the potential to change God's mind? God knows His intention with every one of us. How can we alter Gods will? I'm sorry I'm not trying to come off combative. I am truly curious.

Kgnilla, we ask amiss if we ask with the hope of changing His mind. In those instances where it appears God changed His mind after prayer, it is not as it appears. God's will was done in each instance of that which appears to us that He changed His mind. Prayer is for us! If God changed His mind according to our prayers, who would get the glory? Would not at least part of the glory go to the one who ask? God will not share His glory with another!

Again, we pray to God, sometimes not even knowing what we ought to ask, but we pray anyway WITH FAITH, knowing that whatsoever comes to pass is the will of God for me. His grace is sufficient for me! When we pray to God with faith, we focus on Him and not the circumstance.

I agree that we put to much stock in the opinion that we have free will and therefore we can through our own free will submit our requests to God and get Him to give us whatsoever we will. The will of man without Christ is a slave to unrighteousness. And even the prayers he may utter to God is toward self. Because the natural man puts self above all others.

And when we pray to God believing He hears our prayers, then we submit to God, knowing that our prayers are directed through the power of the Spirit in us. For as I said, sometimes we don't even know what or how to pray. But at these times the Spirit Himself makes our requests known unto God. To God be all glory! So even the man in faith and righteousness is persuaded by the power of the Spirit in them.

So, even though in Christ we are no longer slaves to self, and servants of unrighteousness, we are indeed servants/slaves to the power of He Who is in us. But bear in mind that though we have His power in us, as believers we don't always do and pray as we should. Because sometimes we allow the old nature to have its way, and we find ourselves yielding to the flesh, even when the Spirit in us is telling us not to. So submit to God and even the very things that we desire He will direct us in.

I hope you find some comfort in this. I pray that God will direct your prayers and that He will give you comfort and peace and assurance that your prayers are heard, and whatever will be, this is the will of God for you through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Many Blessings dear one,
RW

Protective Angel
May 20th 2016, 02:38 PM
I know you've proved it to me. I'm just having a difficult time accepting it because I don't understand how. It's been bugging me for a long time to understand why and how.

Every decision we make sets a "time line" into motion. If we come to a place of two ways of travel, important decisions should be considered. If I go this way, what will happen one or two or even ten years into the future. What of choice two? Where does that lead? In either path, God is with us. He wants us to seek "His" path. God is "our Father". Like a father, he corrects us. Like any father, he knows what's best for us, even though we can't see that. That's where "our trust" in God works.

Blain
May 20th 2016, 06:14 PM
Every decision we make sets a "time line" into motion. If we come to a place of two ways of travel, important decisions should be considered. If I go this way, what will happen one or two or even ten years into the future. What of choice two? Where does that lead? In either path, God is with us. He wants us to seek "His" path. God is "our Father". Like a father, he corrects us. Like any father, he knows what's best for us, even though we can't see that. That's where "our trust" in God works.
Always the wise one my friend:)

chad
May 20th 2016, 11:39 PM
Maybe you could think of it in different terms. What is Gods will and what God allows.

It is not Gods will that man not believe in his son and eventually perish, but people will still not believe.

It is not Gods will that Adam and Eve ate from the tree which God forbade them, but it was still allowed.

It is not Gods will that sin entered the world, but it did.



Consider this ... even this prayer was not answered...

(Mat 26:39 KJV) And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.




So you're staring God has not decided everything.... But He has. He has a plan for us. It is all in His will. Whatever happens to us is His will. That's why "everything happens for a reason", right? Because it was Gods will? So His will VS free will makes no sense because you're free will is in the end, what God intended anyway. Everything happens according to His will. This is what I was taught as a Christian.

Protective Angel
May 21st 2016, 12:14 AM
Always the wise one my friend:)

Thank you brother. It is God that giveth. To Him be the glory.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Blain
May 21st 2016, 04:48 AM
Thank you brother. It is God that giveth. To Him be the glory.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
So true I am proud to call you my friend:)

CadyandZoe
May 21st 2016, 01:51 PM
So you're staring God has not decided everything.... But He has. He has a plan for us. It is all in His will. Whatever happens to us is His will. That's why "everything happens for a reason", right? Because it was Gods will? So His will VS free will makes no sense because you're free will is in the end, what God intended anyway. Everything happens according to His will. This is what I was taught as a Christian.

I hear what you are saying and so to answer your question from a pragmatic point of view is almost impossible. That having been said, the most fundamental reason to pray to God is to express whatever is on our heart and mind, regardless of whether it is God's will or not. I take my cues from the prayers of Jesus and Paul. Jesus taught his disciples to pray "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name . . ." etc. By teaching his disciples this model prayer, Jesus is teaching his disciples what ought to be uppermost on their hearts and minds. Our primary concern should be God's will and whenever possible, we should make God's will our prayer.

At the same time, however, Jesus was not ashamed or afraid to express his deepest concerns with the father as exemplified in the Garden of Gethsemane. Even knowing ahead of time what was about to happen he says, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will. Jesus is not a fatalist; he knows that the Father is fully capable of taking Jesus out of the situation or even saving the world another way. The father is not limited in what he can or can't do. The Father makes history come to pass according to his will, and from the Father's point of view history is not inevitable. Therefore Jesus feels free to pray, "If it is possible . . ." and yet he also prays, "yet not as I will." If there is another way to accomplish the same goals, then by all means, let's do that. But if you choose to do this another way, let it be your will, not my will. And by this Jesus demonstrates clearly his commitment to the will of God, which should also be our commitment.

Now, sometimes God waits for us to pray, even if he already knows ahead of time what he is about to do. Take for instance a moment in the life of Elisha. It was said at the time that the rain would return to the land at the word of Elisha and the Father brought the rain at the word of Elisha just after the Father brought fire from heaven to consume the offering and the priests of Baal. The Father timed the return of the rain with the spoken word of Elisha.

In this same way, the Father brought Lazarus out from the grave at the spoken word of Jesus Christ, who prayed, "I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me.

John reminds his readers that if we pray according to God's will, he will give us what we ask. (1John 5) Jesus said the same thing. (John 11 and Luke 11)

chad
May 21st 2016, 10:32 PM
From the Biilly Graham website ...

Q: Why does God heal some people and not others? We prayed and prayed for my little niece's leukemia to go away, but God didn't heal her and she died. I have to admit it's hard not to feel bitter.


A: I understand your hurt, but I want to assure you that God understands your hurt even more than you do and wants to surround you with His love (http://peacewithgod.net/?utm_source=BGEA&utm_medium=My%20Answer%20Link&utm_campaign=PWG%20Organic&utm_content=His%20love) and compassion during this difficult time. The Bible says that He truly is “the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles” (2 Corinthians 1:3-4).

I don’t fully know why God restores some people to health but doesn’t do it for others. Some day in heaven we’ll understand, but in the meantime we can only look to Him in faith and trust. If we don’t, we’ll only end up in bitterness, anger and confusion — and that’s a dead-end road.

Remember: God knows what it is to lose someone to death. His only Son died on the cross for us.

But let me ask you a question: Where is your little niece now? Death has taken her, and you can’t help but grieve over her passing. But listen: She is in heaven now — and all her pain and weakness are gone. She has been healed — completely and forever! The Bible says that in heaven, “There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away” (Revelation 21:4).

Never forget: Because of Christ we have hope. In the midst of your tears, ask God (http://peacewithgod.net/?utm_source=BGEA&utm_medium=My%20Answer%20Link&utm_campaign=PWG%20Organic&utm_content=ask%20God) to help you lift your eyes to heaven and the promise we have of eternal life through Christ. Is your faith in Him?


http://billygraham.org/answer/why-does-god-heal-some-people-and-not-others/

CurtTN
May 22nd 2016, 08:47 PM
I understand what you are saying. However, why should we bother to lift up someone in prayer for healing for example. We ask our brothers and sisters to pray with us, to show God our hearts in hopes that He will heal the person. I just don't get what the point is if God's intention was to die anyway.

What I'm trying to say is, it feels like we are all puppets. God wants us to pray ask in His name. God also gives us free will. But no matter what choice we make, it's God's call anyway. So I don't get the point of "free will" if the ALL KNOWING GOD already knows what choice we will make. I mean he is God right? He knows our past present and future. So... What's the point? What is free will? Do we make our own choices and does God allow us to fall if we don't go by what He intended? Isn't it contradicting? How do we all have a "purpose" and God has a plan for us, yet we have free will... That is NOT free will. Because it's Gods way or the highway. That is being a puppet.

And don't get me wrong, brothers and sisters. I am a Christian simply struggling in my walk with Jesus at the moment. I just need some better understanding so I can remain strong in my faith.

Sometimes He does heal, sometimes He doesn't but we don't ever know why. Does He know that if He heals what comes next for that person is worse? Does He heal because of our faith or our hearts? James says "We have not because we ask not." God "wills" that we have abundant joy and prosper but we all don't. Is it because we rely only on our selves instead of Him?

I know that God answers prayer. Just had it again yesterday. I have to trust Him and let His spirit guide me and then He works in my life. Was that always to be? NO! Such a concept is called predestination which means we have no choice and everything is directed by God. Not true. I have complete and true free will. I can believe in God or not. I can believe in Jesus or not. I can let the HS lead, guide and direct me (into His will) or not. Always my choice.

God's "call" for us is always what is best, but we have to be willing to let Him take us there. Life is not really about choices but about learning about God and learning to be "with" God. "Draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you"." Most of our life problems or issues are because we ignore God's will or choose another path. That is free will in action.

God's foreknowledge does not eliminate free will, it simply means God has seen it all and knows what choices we will make. Some of those choice may because we followed His will and others because we didn't. It doesn't mean we couldn't make the choice, it just means that God already knows what will take place. Fore knowledge is NOT predestination.

This is a deep subject so I'll stop for now and wait for questions. You are asking very good questions.

CurtTN
May 22nd 2016, 08:54 PM
So you're staring God has not decided everything.... But He has. He has a plan for us. It is all in His will. Whatever happens to us is His will. That's why "everything happens for a reason", right? Because it was Gods will? So His will VS free will makes no sense because you're free will is in the end, what God intended anyway. Everything happens according to His will. This is what I was taught as a Christian.

K, yes He has a plan for us but we don't follow it. We want to do things our way and instead of seeking Him and His will we seek fame, fortune, friends, acceptance wealth job etc. "Everything happens for a reason" is man's words. God's word is "All things work together for good to those who love the Lord and are called according to His purposes". It is as basic as do you choose Jesus or the world? Those who choose Jesus have life, those who don't have death. God doesn't make that choice, we do even though he already knows who will and who won't. He even says, "It is not His will that any should perish..." even though many will.

Hope this helps.

CurtTN
May 22nd 2016, 09:05 PM
I know you've proved it to me. I'm just having a difficult time accepting it because I don't understand how. It's been bugging me for a long time to understand why and how.

This is always a hard subject and the problem is rooted in the concept of time. You think that if you will have a choice tomorrow that God has already planned tomorrow and so there is not only no choice but no way for God to be flexible. But God has no time. God sees past present and future all at once. Not only that by His "FOREKNOWLEDGE" He has seen all of your life, all of your choices, all of your prayers, and all the times you asked for things and all the times He granted or did not grant your requests. It is not that God can't change things, it is that God already knows that you asked for the change and He granted it. He "knows" it all He doesn't "cause" it all.