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clormond
Jul 23rd 2016, 05:04 PM
So many of my friends and associates always want to comment on sin by saying, "Don't judge". In a conversation about a LGBT peron being appointed as a Bishop in a church, many people always want to cast the don't judge statement as some kind of defense for the sin. Today has hit me in a different area of my life, so I ask for edification if I am wrong.

We stand as a witness to the sacrifice that Christ made for us. We accept him as Savior and follow his teaching. Do we teach our children that wrong actions will produce consequences? If we administer the consequences, do we do it out of love?

The Word is what we shall be judged against. Is there a secret law that we would be held accounted for? What has happened in my opinion is that people want to accept a loving God but refused to accept the sacrifice and the reason for the sacrifice. To love him is to follow him. We stand as a witness and as an overcomer of sin in our daily lives. We stand as a witness that being born again has released us from the judgement.

Please stop saying "Don't judge" beause the word judges us daily, and we stand as a witness that because of the sacrifice, we choose to follow the one who made that sacrifice, and we have an obligation out of love to warn you of the coming judgement. Stop excusing sin my ignoring sin.

Matt 7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Help me with what I am wrong in...

jayne
Jul 23rd 2016, 05:33 PM
You are not wrong.

This passage is one of the most butchered passages in all of the Bible when it comes to a proper exegesis. People, especially non-believers, but even Christians want to use this teaching to claim that Jesus was preaching a broad-brushed acceptance of anyone's interpretation of anything and any personal lifestyle.

When I teach this passage from the Sermon on the Mount, I like to use David Guzik's interpretation and commentary. I think he is spot on.


"Among those who seem to know nothing of the Bible, this is the verse that seems to be most popular. Yet most the people who quote this verse don't understand what Jesus said. They seem to think (or hope) that Jesus commanded a universal acceptance of any lifestyle or teaching.

ii. Just a little later in this same sermon (Matthew 7:15-16), Jesus commanded us to know ourselves and others by the fruit of their life, and some sort of assessment is necessary for that. The Christian is called to show unconditional love. But the Christian is not called to unconditional approval. We really can love people who do things that should not be approved of.

iii. So while this does not prohibit examining the lives of others, it certainly prohibits doing in the spirit it is often done. An example of unjust judgment was the disciples' condemnation of the woman who came to anoint the feet of Jesus with oil (Matthew 26:6-13). They thought she was wasting something; Jesus said she had done a good work that would always be remembered. They had a rash, harsh, unjust judgment.

- We break this command when we think the worst of others.
- We break this command when we only speak to others of their faults.
- We break this command when we judge an entire life only by its worst moments.
- We break this command when we judge the hidden motives of others.
- We break this command when we judge others without considering ourselves in their same circumstances.
- We break this command when we judge others without being mindful that we ourselves will be judged.

c. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged: Jesus did not prohibit the judgment of others. He only requires that our judgment be completely fair, and that we only judge others by a standard we would also like to be judged by.

i. When our judgment in regard to others is wrong, it is often not because we judge according to a standard but because we are hypocritical in the application of that standard - we ignore the standard in our own life. It is common to judge others by one standard and ourselves by another standard - being far more generous to ourselves than others."

keck553
Jul 23rd 2016, 09:09 PM
I agree with the OP. It's almost a talking point these days to excuse sin.

chad
Jul 23rd 2016, 11:29 PM
Imo, what I think they are saying in terms of judging is - Don't tell us that our lifestyle is wrong and sinful. Let us live our sinful lives. Don't call our lifestyles wrong and sinful because your judging and the bible says not to Judge.



So many of my friends and associates always want to comment on sin by saying, "Don't judge". In a conversation about a LGBT peron being appointed as a Bishop in a church, many people always want to cast the don't judge statement as some kind of defense for the sin. Today has hit me in a different area of my life, so I ask for edification if I am wrong.

We stand as a witness to the sacrifice that Christ made for us. We accept him as Savior and follow his teaching. Do we teach our children that wrong actions will produce consequences? If we administer the consequences, do we do it out of love?

The Word is what we shall be judged against. Is there a secret law that we would be held accounted for? What has happened in my opinion is that people want to accept a loving God but refused to accept the sacrifice and the reason for the sacrifice. To love him is to follow him. We stand as a witness and as an overcomer of sin in our daily lives. We stand as a witness that being born again has released us from the judgement.

Please stop saying "Don't judge" beause the word judges us daily, and we stand as a witness that because of the sacrifice, we choose to follow the one who made that sacrifice, and we have an obligation out of love to warn you of the coming judgement. Stop excusing sin my ignoring sin.

Matt 7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Help me with what I am wrong in...

Scooby_Snacks
Jul 24th 2016, 02:22 AM
IMO The passages are concerning hypocrisy.

IE: Me telling someone they are sinning A. and how horrible it is and they are for doing so.
(Which is really making myself out to be a moral giant)
When I am actually sinning B. and C. and D. the whole time I am trying to point out A.

If I deal with my own sin: B. and C. and D. , I may be more able to approach sin A.
Even better, I might have a different way to approach a brother who is sinning A, after dealing with my B.C. and D.

:2cents:

Old man
Jul 24th 2016, 02:31 AM
I agree that many who say that are trying to avoid addressing their sin. I don’t know if they want simply continue in it or are so ashamed of it they don’t want to see t for themselves and certainly not have someone point it out to them.

As for the verse I think it deals more with how we judge not whether we judge. It is dealing with judging using criteria to judge other than truth. Basing the judgment based on our preferences or self-determined standards rather than truth and what scripture actually says is sin. It is using unrighteous foundation from which to judge.

keck553
Jul 24th 2016, 02:49 AM
IMO The passages are concerning hypocrisy.

IE: Me telling someone they are sinning A. and how horrible it is and they are for doing so.
(Which is really making myself out to be a moral giant)
When I am actually sinning B. and C. and D. the whole time I am trying to point out A.

If I deal with my own sin: B. and C. and D. , I may be more able to approach sin A.
Even better, I might have a different way to approach a brother who is sinning A, after dealing with my B.C. and D.

:2cents:

Yeah, true that, however we need context. The Apostles had no problem identifying sin, and they too were sinners.

I think there is a difference between confessing sin and outright rebellion.

Do I sin? Yes. Do I condone or celebrate my sin? No. I confess it and rely on God to bring me victory over it. That does not make me any better than anyone, I have nothing to boast about, but it glorfies God Who is in me.

It is not by my power, but through He who strengthens me. Anyone can have victory over sin once they recognise it, are convicted of it and turn to the Lord to be free from that yoke. It is not slavery we want for unrepentant sinners, it is freedom we want for them. That is a call of love, not of judgment, but unless we identify the enemy, we can not raise our armor. Obviously this requires judgment to discern the wiles of the adversary.

Scooby_Snacks
Jul 24th 2016, 03:38 AM
Yeah, true that, however we need context. The Apostles had no problem identifying sin, and they too were sinners.

I think there is a difference between confessing sin and outright rebellion.

Do I sin? Yes. Do I condone or celebrate my sin? No. I confess it and rely on God to bring me victory over it. That does not make me any better than anyone, I have nothing to boast about, but it glorfies God Who is in me.

It is not by my power, but through He who strengthens me. Anyone can have victory over sin once they recognise it, are convicted of it and tuen to the Lord to be free from that yoke. It is not slavery we want for unrepentant sinners, it is freedom we want for them. That is a call of love, not of judgment, but unless we identify the enemy, we can not raise our armor. Obviously this requires judgment to discern the wiles of the adversary.

The Holy Spirit can do anything through the right vessel, by His Word, or His Power.

Proverbs 20:5
The purpose in a man’s heart is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out.

Protective Angel
Jul 24th 2016, 04:02 AM
Pointing out one's sin is not judging. It's trying to help them overcome.

keck553
Jul 24th 2016, 04:26 AM
The Holy Spirit can do anything through the right vessel, by His Word, or His Power.

Proverbs 20:5
The purpose in a man’s heart is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out.

Well, not neccesarily the "right" vessel (that would put man in control), but the vessel God chooses. Obedience to the Holy Spirit is a great conduit, but He has done His will through others as well (Nebuchadnezzar comes to mind).

As ambassadors to Christ, we need to always be sensitive to our own hypocrisy; it is a sign we are not fully submitted to Him. But if confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive.

In other words, we need to remain humble.

Scooby_Snacks
Jul 24th 2016, 01:13 PM
Well, not neccesarily the "right" vessel (that would put man in control), but the vessel God chooses.

Yes chosen is a better word usage and was my meaning. (God's choices are always "right")
IE: God chose the Apostles.



Obedience to the Holy Spirit is a great conduit, but He has done His will through others as well (Nebuchadnezzar comes to mind).

True as well. I may have issue with some who say or do things toward me, but the choices I make in regard to that in response will help build/shape my character.


As ambassadors to Christ, we need to always be sensitive to our own hypocrisy; it is a sign we are not fully submitted to Him. But if confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive.

In other words, we need to remain humble.

And He can get us there, I pray He keeps me...Amen.

Reynolds357
Jul 26th 2016, 02:19 AM
So many of my friends and associates always want to comment on sin by saying, "Don't judge". In a conversation about a LGBT peron being appointed as a Bishop in a church, many people always want to cast the don't judge statement as some kind of defense for the sin. Today has hit me in a different area of my life, so I ask for edification if I am wrong.

We stand as a witness to the sacrifice that Christ made for us. We accept him as Savior and follow his teaching. Do we teach our children that wrong actions will produce consequences? If we administer the consequences, do we do it out of love?

The Word is what we shall be judged against. Is there a secret law that we would be held accounted for? What has happened in my opinion is that people want to accept a loving God but refused to accept the sacrifice and the reason for the sacrifice. To love him is to follow him. We stand as a witness and as an overcomer of sin in our daily lives. We stand as a witness that being born again has released us from the judgement.

Please stop saying "Don't judge" beause the word judges us daily, and we stand as a witness that because of the sacrifice, we choose to follow the one who made that sacrifice, and we have an obligation out of love to warn you of the coming judgement. Stop excusing sin my ignoring sin.

Matt 7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Help me with what I am wrong in...

By them telling you not to judge, they are judging you. They are judging you to be judgemental. I agre. Do not judge is one of my pet peeves. Paul sure did not mind judging sin.

Stonesoffire
Jul 27th 2016, 03:28 PM
Is it possible that the judgement we aren't to make is about the worth of an individual rather than a sin?

Stew Ward's Hip
Jul 27th 2016, 07:58 PM
Jesus did not come to judge sin in the lives of sinners, why do we feel compelled to do so?

We are to judge sin in our own lives.
We are to judge sin in the church.
We have no business judging sin in the lives of non-believers. They are only doing what sinners do... sin.

It is not the judgment of God that leads men (and women) to repentance. What did Paul say leads people to repentance...???

dutchman40
Jul 27th 2016, 09:48 PM
You don't have to judge, since they've already entered into judgement.

mari
Jul 28th 2016, 09:42 AM
You cannot truly "judge" what you don't know = you cannot judge shoes you haven't walked in ....

as mom of a autistic child I (and my son) are often judged ,mostly by "believers" for the way he behaves or what I allow him .......
those who don't know and don't have a clue are most often the first to have an opinion, which is mostly ("Biblically") judgemental ...

... parents and family of "LGBT" people - some Bible-believing, Christ-Love-living Christians, might have another opinion than yours .....

... we judge slavery, we don't judge divorce, where did we change our Bible-judging minds? .....

not to stir, just to try and let you immagine seeing through someone else's eyes .....

:hug: ... m

Stew Ward's Hip
Jul 28th 2016, 01:35 PM
I know nothing of rape, but I can judge it as immoral.

I know nothing of murder, but I can judge it as immoral.

Of course we can judge that which we have not experienced.

Athanasius
Jul 28th 2016, 01:45 PM
You cannot truly "judge" what you don't know = you cannot judge shoes you haven't walked in ....

as mom of a autistic child I (and my son) are often judged ,mostly by "believers" for the way he behaves or what I allow him .......
those who don't know and don't have a clue are most often the first to have an opinion, which is mostly ("Biblically") judgemental ...

... parents and family of "LGBT" people - some Bible-believing, Christ-Love-living Christians, might have another opinion than yours .....

... we judge slavery, we don't judge divorce, where did we change our Bible-judging minds? .....

not to stir, just to try and let you immagine seeing through someone else's eyes .....

:hug: ... m

There's where the 'you'll be judged according to how you judge' comes in (people who judge other parents' parenting, children, etc.).

chad
Jul 28th 2016, 11:04 PM
The idea that we cannot truly judge because we cannot have 100% empathy for what the person is going through, therefore we should not judge is not a biblical idea.

Should John the baptist have preach a message of repentance and turning from sin, even though they did not have 100% empathy for those they were preaching to?

Should the Apostles have preached a message of repentance and turning from sins, even though they did not have 100% empathy for those they were preaching to?

Should the modern day evangelists, pastors and teachers preach repentance and turning from sins, even though they do not have 100% empathy for those they are preaching to?




You cannot truly "judge" what you don't know = you cannot judge shoes you haven't walked in ....

as mom of a autistic child I (and my son) are often judged ,mostly by "believers" for the way he behaves or what I allow him .......
those who don't know and don't have a clue are most often the first to have an opinion, which is mostly ("Biblically") judgemental ...

... parents and family of "LGBT" people - some Bible-believing, Christ-Love-living Christians, might have another opinion than yours .....

... we judge slavery, we don't judge divorce, where did we change our Bible-judging minds? .....

not to stir, just to try and let you immagine seeing through someone else's eyes .....

:hug: ... m

mari
Aug 4th 2016, 12:50 PM
I know nothing of rape, but I can judge it as immoral.

I know nothing of murder, but I can judge it as immoral.

Of course we can judge that which we have not experienced.

You may know a victim of rape, or someone who was affected by a loved one's murder.....
Everyday people "know" enough about these crimes through witness stories and the daily news .......

Consider :

Will you judge my son (and me) if he has a meltdown that looks like a tantrum, when the church noise becomes too much for his autistic brain?
(Take in mind he is now a teenager taller than me and not a cute little boy).
Will you judge him if he does not greet you, looks away and sits with his hands in his pockets during praise and worship?


Will you judge my friend who loves Jesus with all his heart but is in a same gender relationship - both going to a church who accepts them as they believe Jesus does?
Will you accept my other friend who got married to a girl, even though he is gay, enduring a missrable marrige for the church's sake .....

:hmm: ... m

Stew Ward's Hip
Aug 4th 2016, 12:57 PM
You may know a victim of rape, or someone who was affected by a loved one's murder.....
Everyday people "know" enough about these crimes through witness stories and the daily news .......

Consider :

Will you judge my son (and me) if he has a meltdown that looks like a tantrum, when the church noise becomes too much for his autistic brain?
(Take in mind he is now a teenager taller than me and not a cute little boy).
Will you judge him if he does not greet you, looks away and sits with his hands in his pockets during praise and worship?


Will you judge my friend who loves Jesus with all his heart but is in a same gender relationship - both going to a church who accepts them as they believe Jesus does?
Will you accept my other friend who got married to a girl, even though he is gay, enduring a missrable marrige for the church's sake .....

:hmm: ... m

Of course I will judge them. I will evaluate them in the light of Jesus, the standard of our judgment.

Your son and you, if he has a meltdown because he is autistic or ignores me completely, I will accept fully and without reservation. it's not about me. I really don't care how he acts in public.

Your friend who is in a homosexual relationship? Yes, I will judge him or her by the standard of the Word. Their sexual conduct is sin and while loving them and even accepting them as brothers or sisters in Christ I will not condone their sin or support them in the continuation of it, even if that means sacrificing their personal feelings and happiness.

Your male friend who is gay and is married to a woman should not endure a miserable marriage for anyone's sake, but I will judge him responsible for the marriage and/or its ultimate demise because he is an adult and must live his life in conformity to the Word, even if that means sacrificing his personal feelings and happiness. He made a vow to God, and he must honor it, regardless of the consequences, unless she leaves him.


It isn't difficult. We are called to judge in accordance with the Word

mari
Aug 4th 2016, 01:13 PM
Of course I will judge them. I will evaluate them in the light of Jesus, the standard of our judgment.

Your intrerpretation, that is ......


Your son and you, if he has a meltdown because he is autistic or ignores me completely, I will accept fully and without reservation. it's not about me. I really don't care how he acts in public.

as a cute little boy, many accepted him.... now it is impossible to get a church family .......


Your friend who is in a homosexual relationship? Yes, I will judge him or her by the standard of the Word. Their sexual conduct is sin and while loving them and even accepting them as brothers or sisters in Christ I will not condone their sin or support them in the continuation of it, even if that means sacrificing their personal feelings and happiness.

they love each other, as hetro unmarried couples the are abstaining from "sexual conduct" ..... still condemn them?


Your male friend who is gay and is married to a woman should not endure a miserable marriage for anyone's sake, but I will judge him responsible for the marriage and/or its ultimate demise because he is an adult and must live his life in conformity to the Word, even if that means sacrificing his personal feelings and happiness. He made a vow to God, and he must honor it, regardless of the consequences, unless she leaves him.

It is the lady who is miserable knowing her husband will never fully be able to love her, even though they have 2 children....... he is trying and denies it "by faith"... but his wife knows..... as a left handed person can write with his right hand, it is not according to his nature ....



It isn't difficult. We are called to judge in accordance with the Word

Again: You judge according to your interpretation - another may have another interpretation

Do you judge those believers who were sprinkled as babies, and not baptized as believers?

Do you judge slavery ? - it is Biblicaly accaptable but mostly condemned....
Do you judge those (even in ministry) who are divorced and remarried when their partners are still alive ? - Biblically unacceptable, but mostly accepted .....

CadyandZoe
Aug 4th 2016, 01:32 PM
So many of my friends and associates always want to comment on sin by saying, "Don't judge". In a conversation about a LGBT peron being appointed as a Bishop in a church, many people always want to cast the don't judge statement as some kind of defense for the sin. Today has hit me in a different area of my life, so I ask for edification if I am wrong.

We stand as a witness to the sacrifice that Christ made for us. We accept him as Savior and follow his teaching. Do we teach our children that wrong actions will produce consequences? If we administer the consequences, do we do it out of love?

The Word is what we shall be judged against. Is there a secret law that we would be held accounted for? What has happened in my opinion is that people want to accept a loving God but refused to accept the sacrifice and the reason for the sacrifice. To love him is to follow him. We stand as a witness and as an overcomer of sin in our daily lives. We stand as a witness that being born again has released us from the judgement.

Please stop saying "Don't judge" beause the word judges us daily, and we stand as a witness that because of the sacrifice, we choose to follow the one who made that sacrifice, and we have an obligation out of love to warn you of the coming judgement. Stop excusing sin my ignoring sin.

Matt 7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Help me with what I am wrong in...

I don't see anything wrong with what you said. But if I may add . . .

Some times we get tripped up on words that have more than one meaning such as the word "judge". In one instance we employ the word "judge" when the subject is centered on discernment or an evaluation of someone or something. At other times we employ the word "judge" when the subject is centered on punishment, penalty, or condemnation. We can find examples of both meanings in the New Testament.

When Jesus says, "Do not judge . . ." he is using the word in the second sense. That is, he is saying, "Do not condemn . . ." or "Do not hold in contempt . . ." Jesus is getting at a very real attitude we all share. First of all, it is easy for us to see the wrongs that others commit and very difficult to acknowledge our own wrongs. And when we evaluate the injustice of others, we use unbalanced scales. In other words, if you do something wrong to me, I want justice. If I do something wrong to you, I want mercy. When you do something wrong I condemn you or hold you in contempt; when I do something wrong I rationalize or justify my actions.

What does it mean for me to take the log out of my eye? It means that I must use balanced scales, with regard to my own injustice. If I truly and honestly want mercy to be in my reality; then I must truly and honestly gain a clear and accurate picture of my own evil, my own injustice, my own moral ineptitude and stop making excuses for it. Once I do that, then I will be in a position to be gracious and merciful to others who harm me, knowing that we both share the same fatal flaw.

Stew Ward's Hip
Aug 4th 2016, 01:46 PM
Your intrerpretation, that is ......



as a cute little boy, many accepted him.... now it is impossible to get a church family .......



they love each other, as hetro unmarried couples the are abstaining from "sexual conduct" ..... still condemn them?



It is the lady who is miserable knowing her husband will never fully be able to love her, even though they have 2 children....... he is trying and denies it "by faith"... but his wife knows..... as a left handed person can write with his right hand, it is not according to his nature ....




Again: You judge according to your interpretation - another may have another interpretation

Do you judge those believers who were sprinkled as babies, and not baptized as believers?

Do you judge slavery ? - it is Biblicaly accaptable but mostly condemned....
Do you judge those (even in ministry) who are divorced and remarried when their partners are still alive ? - Biblically unacceptable, but mostly accepted .....

1. People that respond negatively to your autistic adult son are either stupid, cruel, or most likely, don't understand his condition. Serious believers would accept him without reservation is they knew the situation.

2. If people that have homosexual desires do not engage in sexual conduct, then there is no sin.

3. The wife needs to get over herself. She needs to understand the intense psychological, emotional, and spiritual commitment that this man has made to her, get over her feelings and thank God for a man so committed to God that he would wrestle with himself for her benefit.

4. I don't care is people are sprinkled or dunked. Baptism of any kind only makes you wet. It is a cultural testimony to the community of faith in which one finds oneself, not a spiritual matter.

5. I don't have a problem with slavery. I have a problem with slave owners that don't treat their slaves as they would treat Jesus, and with slaves that don't treat their masters as they would treat Jesus.

6. If a person is divorced because his or her spouse committed adultery or abandonned the marriage, I have no problem with remarriage, as Paul clearly teaches. For those that divorce for any other reason, they should not remarry as long as their ex spouse is alive; however if they do, they should remain married but confess the sin that led to that situation.

What's the point of all this?

Athanasius
Aug 4th 2016, 01:57 PM
It is the lady who is miserable knowing her husband will never fully be able to love her, even though they have 2 children....... he is trying and denies it "by faith"... but his wife knows..... as a left handed person can write with his right hand, it is not according to his nature ....

Speaking from my own experience:

If true, this man is denying himself for his faith, relationship with Jesus, wife, and family - that's what I'd call 'full' love (he loves those around him above himself!).

keck553
Aug 4th 2016, 02:04 PM
You may know a victim of rape, or someone who was affected by a loved one's murder.....
Everyday people "know" enough about these crimes through witness stories and the daily news .......

Consider :

Will you judge my son (and me) if he has a meltdown that looks like a tantrum, when the church noise becomes too much for his autistic brain?
(Take in mind he is now a teenager taller than me and not a cute little boy).
Will you judge him if he does not greet you, looks away and sits with his hands in his pockets during praise and worship?


Will you judge my friend who loves Jesus with all his heart but is in a same gender relationship - both going to a church who accepts them as they believe Jesus does?
Will you accept my other friend who got married to a girl, even though he is gay, enduring a missrable marrige for the church's sake .....

:hmm: ... m

My question is, will you love your friends enough to tell them the truth?

By the way, my son is HFA and 15 right now, have you been able to discern his autism from his bad behavior? Not easy, but it is essential - more for him than anyone else. Very few congregations are equipped for special needs children, especially those high functioning as my son who seem "normal" but are socially awkward. However we shouldn't expect others to understand autism to the depth we do, otherwise we are judging them..

mari
Aug 4th 2016, 02:39 PM
My question is, will you love your friends enough to tell them the truth?

By the way, my son is HFA and 15 right now, have you been able to discern his autism from his bad behavior? Not easy, but it is essential - more for him than anyone else. Very few congregations are equipped for special needs children, especially those high functioning as my son who seem "normal" but are socially awkward. However we shouldn't expect others to understand autism to the depth we do, otherwise we are judging them..

My son is also 15 and keeps his hands in his pockets as not to "flap" them to appear akward ..... it is not "bad " behaviour.......
He used to be Kanners, but is more aspergers at the moment, He looks "normal", and even speaks now, but in a very deep, very loud voice, so he refrains from talking in a crowd.......
So we rather stay away from church, then now-one judges...... ;)

...m

and by the way, judging someone "on the spectrum" as "high" or "low" functioning is also a bit of a slippery road....:eek:

ristenk
Aug 4th 2016, 02:42 PM
"don't judge" is a pet peeve of mine too... the bible says to, "judge righteously"... we make "judgement calls" (decisions about right and wrong, everyday).

When I hear people say "don't judge" I think they are misusing the words.. what they really mean to say is "don't make a rash decision on me based on what you see".... the way I see the verse in the bible that is so often misquoted is that we are all sinners so "do not judge" in the bible means, "don 't think of yourself as any better than such and such a sinner because you are a sinner too and but for the grace of God you would be the same".

keck553
Aug 4th 2016, 02:50 PM
My son is also 15 and keeps his hands in his pockets as not to "flap" them to appear akward ..... it is not "bad " behaviour.......
He used to be Kanners, but is more aspergers at the moment, He looks "normal", and even speaks now, but in a very deep, very loud voice, so he refrains from talking in a crowd.......
So we rather stay away from church, then now-one judges...... ;)

...m

and by the way, judging someone "on the spectrum" as "high" or "low" functioning is also a bit of a slippery road....:eek:

You mentioned "meltdowns" so I assumed there were other issues beyond "flapping hands."

As to my son, it is not a judgment it is a medical assessment, although I realize the spectrum is very broad almost to the point of each person being unique (as we are). We don't stay away form our brothers and sisters just because they are not equipped to deal with autism. For us, that action would be judging them.

Are you willing to tell your friends the truth?

Are you willing to tell your friends the truth?

ristenk
Aug 4th 2016, 03:04 PM
You cannot truly "judge" what you don't know = you cannot judge shoes you haven't walked in ....

as mom of a autistic child I (and my son) are often judged ,mostly by "believers" for the way he behaves or what I allow him .......
those who don't know and don't have a clue are most often the first to have an opinion, which is mostly ("Biblically") judgemental ...



In this case, "do not judge" is meaning: "don't label me", "don't think bad about me or my son" - which is thinking other people are thinking bad of him and you because of his bad behavior... but this isn't a right or wrong issue here... it's not immoral that your son is or isn't autistic... I hate when my children act bad and people might "think" I'm a bad mom... but who cares? At the end of the day, both God and I know whether I handled the situation properly... and sometimes I handle things well and sometimes I don't... and in your case with autism, I would think that people (if they knew) would be even more gracious (as God is) in circumstances.. sure you don't want people to think bad of you but your not doing anything morally wrong so what you really mean when you say, "don't judge me" is, don't come to a fast conclusion of me by the events that you see right now and also, it could easily be you in this situation if God had given you the same things to deal with :)

keck553
Aug 4th 2016, 03:13 PM
In this case, "do not judge" is meaning: "don't label me", "don't think bad about me or my son" - which is thinking other people are thinking bad of him and you because of his bad behavior... but this isn't a right or wrong issue here... it's not immoral that your son is or isn't autistic... I hate when my children act bad and people might "think" I'm a bad mom... but who cares? At the end of the day, both God and I know whether I handled the situation properly... and sometimes I handle things well and sometimes I don't... and in your case with autism, I would think that people (if they knew) would be even more gracious (as God is) in circumstances.. sure you don't want people to think bad of you but your not doing anything morally wrong so what you really mean when you say, "don't judge me" is, don't come to a fast conclusion of me by the events that you see right now and also, it could easily be you in this situation if God had given you the same things to deal with :)

We have to be careful not to judge people who don't understand autism. It's not their fault they don't understand autism. Rather than avoiding them, we need to educate them with truth and grace. Knowledge is power.

ristenk
Aug 4th 2016, 03:18 PM
We have to be careful not to judge people who don't understand autism. It's not their fault they don't understand autism. Rather than avoiding them, we need to educate them with truth and grace. Knowledge is power.

can you resay that sentence above without using the word "judge" so I know exactly what you mean?

keck553
Aug 4th 2016, 06:50 PM
can you resay that sentence above without using the word "judge" so I know exactly what you mean?

The first thing a parent with a special needs child wants to respond with others is that somehow they "should know" all about the spectrum. First of all, parents have a right and a duty to protect their children from harm. Some (note I said "some") on the spectrum bite, scratch and act violently in their "meltdown," so caregivers and parents who mingle their children with someone on the spectrum deserve to be informed. Only the parents of that child can honestly and truthfully inform others about their child's behavior when they have their "meltdown." As a parent of a child on the spectrum, I totally understand apprehension, and I also am in no position to expect others to have the knowledge and awareness of autism. Up to about 12 years old, we never sent our son to "children's church," he sat with us, and then at 12 he began to assist the Sunday school teachers teaching kids. He is aware of his autism, the challenges he faces, the triggers and has overcome much by choosing not to give in and behave badly. Still, he shys away from others, doesn't look peers in the eye much and it takes an invitation from he peers for him to come into their world and then he does really well.

Yes, it is hard work, but to not go to church, and isolate myself because I am not comfortable with the way people respond to autism would be a cop out for me. That's not fair to anyone. God has given everyone special gifts, including special needs people and we are not to withhold those gifts from the body of Christ. I know its difficult, but that is what God has put in our lives. We need to live into it, not blame others for their understandable ignorance.

So.....how about this then....

"we have to be prepared to enighten people about autism who have no experience with it."

mari
Aug 5th 2016, 09:00 AM
You mentioned "meltdowns" so I assumed there were other issues beyond "flapping hands."

As to my son, it is not a judgment it is a medical assessment, although I realize the spectrum is very broad almost to the point of each person being unique (as we are). We don't stay away form our brothers and sisters just because they are not equipped to deal with autism. For us, that action would be judging them.

Are you willing to tell your friends the truth?

Are you willing to tell your friends the truth?

Eeeeeeeish my dear !!!! my "friends" and anyone that spends more than 5 minutes with us are faced with the truth, whether I "like" it or not ..... at first he looks "normal, but then he talks akward, he moves akward, he avoids eye contact with strangers, he does not understand when you go more than 2 sentences ......... and most often the "Biblycally honest" will judge, while the not so Biblical will be more understanding.......

and again... you have the "us" those living with in the face autism, and the "them" - the nero-tipical who does not understand "our" world.... there is much more understanding if you look in the right places ..........

PS: this mom is an advocate for awareness - in Africa special needs does not get the attention and help it does in USA and Europe... :)

Athanasius
Aug 5th 2016, 11:16 AM
Neurotypical (i.e. normies) as opposed to being neurodivergent (autism, aspergers, etc.) - for those who haven't heard of the difference.

ristenk
Aug 5th 2016, 02:03 PM
and most often the "Biblycally honest" will judge, while the not so Biblical will be more understanding.......


So what you are saying when you use the word "judge" is that the churchgoers that you are near are not understanding and you perceive their attitude towards you as one of criticism that you are doing things wrong/badly with your child.

I'm sorry to hear that :( Are you sure your church is biblically sound? Remember you will know them by their fruits... if the fruit of the spirit of those in church with you is not building you up and coming along side you to help you and instead is hurtful and feeling more of criticism... maybe that's a bad sign... I saw you posted in another thread: how to know you are saved... sounds like you have heard the true gospel of why Jesus said He is the only way to heaven and how to partake in that (repent and trust only in Him, not our own goodness)... is your church teaching this? I don't mean this badly, but there are a lot of churches that stray from this (I came out of a bad church that didn't teach the gospel correctly)... when people are truly saved, they see themselves as sinners in need of a savior and are grateful to God for saving them, and as a by product, do not look badly on others because they themselves know that they are just as much of a sinner as the next guy (with the attitude, "but for the grace of God there go I")...

clormond
Aug 5th 2016, 04:43 PM
"don't judge" is a pet peeve of mine too... the bible says to, "judge righteously"... we make "judgement calls" (decisions about right and wrong, everyday).

When I hear people say "don't judge" I think they are misusing the words.. what they really mean to say is "don't make a rash decision on me based on what you see".... the way I see the verse in the bible that is so often misquoted is that we are all sinners so "do not judge" in the bible means, "don 't think of yourself as any better than such and such a sinner because you are a sinner too and but for the grace of God you would be the same".

What i am seeing is that when people are making decisions that are against the teaching of the Bible, for instance Gay marriage, they say dont judge. Is what you are saying is that we should not correct them? Its not that i think i am better, its jsut i recognise blantant sin and i feel it my duty to point it out, no?

ristenk
Aug 5th 2016, 05:17 PM
What i am seeing is that when people are making decisions that are against the teaching of the Bible, for instance Gay marriage, they say dont judge. Is what you are saying is that we should not correct them? Its not that i think i am better, its jsut i recognise blantant sin and i feel it my duty to point it out, no?

Some things should be corrected (warned).... but the reason I have a pet peeve about it is I hear people say it all the time in matters that there is no moral right/wrong:

for example my coworkers will pick up a brownie and say: don't judge
or a mother will let her kid wear a costume to a store (honestly, I really don't care about this, it's not a moral issue) but she will say: don't judge

- it's as if people overuse this phrase for things when they don't want people to think bad of them... but it's on small matters or matters that, like I said, are not morally right or wrong. When people overuse the phrase it detracts from the importance of discernment and the reality to actually warn people of sins that do have a moral right or wrong.

keck553
Aug 5th 2016, 07:16 PM
Some things should be corrected (warned).... but the reason I have a pet peeve about it is I hear people say it all the time in matters that there is no moral right/wrong:

for example my coworkers will pick up a brownie and say: don't judge
or a mother will let her kid wear a costume to a store (honestly, I really don't care about this, it's not a moral issue) but she will say: don't judge

- it's as if people overuse this phrase for things when they don't want people to think bad of them... but it's on small matters or matters that, like I said, are not morally right or wrong. When people overuse the phrase it detracts from the importance of discernment and the reality to actually warn people of sins that do have a moral right or wrong.

I think the Bible has a verse for this:

"In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes." Judges 21:25

The problem for Christians who fall in this category is that we DO have a King - Jesus, so there is no excuse.

Stew Ward's Hip
Aug 5th 2016, 08:55 PM
Why do we feel a need to point out sin to sinners?

DrDavidT
Aug 6th 2016, 11:35 PM
I haven't read the whole thread so maybe someone has already pointed this out. There is a difference between judging and identifying sin. There is a difference between judging and telling someone they need to repent of their sins. The latter of each is not judging but pointing out a problem in the life of those who refuse to obey God.

Warning people of their sin and the result of their behavior is not judging but warning.

ChildofMercy
Aug 10th 2016, 12:19 AM
I haven't read the whole thread so maybe someone has already pointed this out. There is a difference between judging and identifying sin. There is a difference between judging and telling someone they need to repent of their sins. The latter of each is not judging but pointing out a problem in the life of those who refuse to obey God.

Warning people of their sin and the result of their behavior is not judging but warning.

I agree with you 100% on this. When people misuse "don't judge" it means "don't identify this as a sin, warn me, or otherwise try to persuade me not to take this course of action." But we can't do that; loving people often means standing up for then, against sin, whether in discipling one's children or witnessing to the lost.

I think the original meaning is against condemnation. Us vs them mentality. Looking down on people, not wanting what's best for them, giving them the cold shoulder, or entering the spirit of anger against someone or a group of people. Don't condemn sinners, because you are one. If you want mercy for your own sins, don't live out a merciless attitude.

CadyandZoe
Aug 10th 2016, 11:09 PM
Why do we feel a need to point out sin to sinners?

Rebuking a sinner can be an act of love. It depends on the context and the motive.

mari
Aug 11th 2016, 12:16 PM
What's the point of all this?

... the point is we judge according to our perception .....

Stew ... I grew up in a country where "apartheid" was Biblicaly tought and accepted ... where human beings, including brothers and sisters in Christ were judged according to their skin colour and it was proven with Bible verses........ and those (whites) who did not accept it were perceived as sinful ..... as a teenager I accepted others of different colour as friends long before Madiba walked out of prison with a message of forgiveness, and I was deamed rebellious ...... 20 years later many still find it difficult to change the perception they were thought from the pulpit .....

1) Amen !
2):hmm:
3) Now you judge the wife for the lie she is caught in !!!!! eeeeiish !!!
4)Many believers hold fast to the "truth" that you need to be baptized to be saved - Biblically
5)You accept slavery???, that's a newby! ..... slavery is condemned by the world and the Church ....
6) Yip, sounds correct,...... but the church still employ divorced pastors..... and allow many people who just got tired of each other, divorced and remarried ...... to be full serving members..........

IT IS PERCEPTION ....... you cannot judge what you do not konw ....... if you don't know, then leave it to GOD .... thats all ......

:pray::spin:

mari
Aug 11th 2016, 12:17 PM
Rebuking a sinner can be an act of love. It depends on the context and the motive.

:pp context (according to your perception)
and the greatest is always Love !!

mari
Aug 11th 2016, 12:20 PM
"don't judge" is a pet peeve of mine too... the bible says to, "judge righteously"... we make "judgement calls" (decisions about right and wrong, everyday).

When I hear people say "don't judge" I think they are misusing the words.. what they really mean to say is "don't make a rash decision on me based on what you see".... the way I see the verse in the bible that is so often misquoted is that we are all sinners so "do not judge" in the bible means, "don 't think of yourself as any better than such and such a sinner because you are a sinner too and but for the grace of God you would be the same".

..... but for the grace of God.....
you could so easily have been in the same shoes ............ what would you have done ?

keck553
Aug 11th 2016, 03:36 PM
... the point is we judge according to our perception .....

Stew ... I grew up in a country where "apartheid" was Biblicaly tought and accepted ... where human beings, including brothers and sisters in Christ were judged according to their skin colour and it was proven with Bible verses........ and those (whites) who did not accept it were perceived as sinful ..... as a teenager I accepted others of different colour as friends long before Madiba walked out of prison with a message of forgiveness, and I was deamed rebellious ...... 20 years later many still find it difficult to change the perception they were thought from the pulpit .....

This is simply not a Biblical ethic; in fact racism is a sin and that can be proven by exegesis, not some flawed eisegesis as you indicated your persecutors were deploying. And this is exactly why we are exhorted to study and show ourselves approved - so that we can put these false doctrines in their place.

But using the ethic of "perception" - that is circular logic because their is no reference point. God's Word is our reference point. God defines sin and the ethics of human dignity very clearly, in detail in His Torah and upheld by Jesus - Jesus accomplished both in using truth and grace. And as He poured out grace to sinners, he didn't fail to say "stop sinning."

What you are speaking to is mostly sectarian division and that is mostly driven by time investment and emotional investment in human doctrines not found in the Bible. Yes, we need to be willing to dispense of those types of doctrines no matter how much we have vested in them, but we must remain dogmatic about what the bible clear positive and negative commandments.

As to perception, the Biblical ethic is this - if you perceive your enemy as that person or persons who have heaped these heavy yokes of unbiblical and unethical religious dogma on your shoulders..guess what? Jesus commands you to love them. That is the Biblical ethic. And in that sense, you correctly judge their religious dogma as wrong (or sin), but you still must love that person who has persecuted you with their religion. In that regard, you are not to judge them, because God loved us first in our sin and our rebellion and our own religious misguidance.

As to reality, God will always lead us to repentance. And if we are going to turn from something and towards something (sexual purity for example), we had better be able to define the standard of what it is we are turning towards.

If we are going to love others, we must begin with those who are the most difficult to love (by our perception). That begins with being honest with God about how you feel about them. It's ok to tell God you hate them, that they hurt you, even that you want to see them reap justice. God knows our hearts anyway so we can not fool him. But if we are forthcoming, He will then have some clay that can be formed into His will.

mari
Sep 5th 2016, 01:08 PM
I agree with you 100% on this. When people misuse "don't judge" it means "don't identify this as a sin, warn me, or otherwise try to persuade me not to take this course of action." But we can't do that; loving people often means standing up for then, against sin, whether in discipling one's children or witnessing to the lost.

I think the original meaning is against condemnation. Us vs them mentality. Looking down on people, not wanting what's best for them, giving them the cold shoulder, or entering the spirit of anger against someone or a group of people. Don't condemn sinners, because you are one. If you want mercy for your own sins, don't live out a merciless attitude.

Dearest CoM ......

I've been "judged" over and over again for being a bad mother, not keeping my child in control. spoiling him by allowing him special foods, etc etc .......... those bothering to find out that he is autistic and have special needs, swallow their doctrines quickly and mostly don't know what to say ....... or on the other hand "turn to the Bible" and start preaching about casting out demons etc ............:rolleyes:

keck553
Sep 5th 2016, 06:17 PM
Never had that experience to the extent of "being judged" with our autistic child.

mari
Sep 6th 2016, 02:19 PM
Neurotypical (i.e. normies) as opposed to being neurodivergent (autism, aspergers, etc.) - for those who haven't heard of the difference.


Never had that experience to the extent of "being judged" with our autistic child.

.... That is Grace in abundance .....

Maybe it has to do with a different country - America seems to be more open minded ????..
here our "special needs" children are banded together in special schools to prevent them beoing the victums of inadiquate teachers, bullying, etc ......

Here we are judged by the church: imperfect marriage relationship reason for disability, or ancestrial sinns, or whatever...... it must be someone's sin!
Judge insifficient Our family: too much or too little discipline depending on who you ask .. it must be someone's fault
Judged unworthy by friends: imperfect parenting .... someone did something wrong ...
Judged by strangers while shopping : can't controll your child...

only recourse is to become an advocate for disabilities and the"differently abled" ......

....m

U still say - you cannot "judge" (Biblically or other wize), what you do not know ......

Stew Ward's Hip
Sep 6th 2016, 03:10 PM
.... That is Grace in abundance .....

Maybe it has to do with a different country - America seems to be more open minded ????..
here our "special needs" children are banded together in special schools to prevent them beoing the victums of inadiquate teachers, bullying, etc ......

Here we are judged by the church: imperfect marriage relationship reason for disability, or ancestrial sinns, or whatever...... it must be someone's sin!
Judge insifficient Our family: too much or too little discipline depending on who you ask .. it must be someone's fault
Judged unworthy by friends: imperfect parenting .... someone did something wrong ...
Judged by strangers while shopping : can't controll your child...

only recourse is to become an advocate for disabilities and the"differently abled" ......

....m

U still say - you cannot "judge" (Biblically or other wize), what you do not know ......

If the church is making judgments that are not biblical, then that is a church problem.

Revelation Man
Sep 6th 2016, 03:13 PM
So many of my friends and associates always want to comment on sin by saying, "Don't judge". In a conversation about a LGBT peron being appointed as a Bishop in a church, many people always want to cast the don't judge statement as some kind of defense for the sin. Today has hit me in a different area of my life, so I ask for edification if I am wrong.

We stand as a witness to the sacrifice that Christ made for us. We accept him as Savior and follow his teaching. Do we teach our children that wrong actions will produce consequences? If we administer the consequences, do we do it out of love?

The Word is what we shall be judged against. Is there a secret law that we would be held accounted for? What has happened in my opinion is that people want to accept a loving God but refused to accept the sacrifice and the reason for the sacrifice. To love him is to follow him. We stand as a witness and as an overcomer of sin in our daily lives. We stand as a witness that being born again has released us from the judgement.

Please stop saying "Don't judge" beause the word judges us daily, and we stand as a witness that because of the sacrifice, we choose to follow the one who made that sacrifice, and we have an obligation out of love to warn you of the coming judgement. Stop excusing sin my ignoring sin.

Matt 7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Help me with what I am wrong in...

The people who translated the bible to English did a curious thing, they translated Judge and Condemn in most cases Judge. Its a bad translation in many cases.

Is It Right to Judge ?

How many times have you heard someone whine, "Judge not, that ye be not judged?" This verse of Scripture from Matthew 7:1 is often quoted out of context by people who are terrified at the idea of someone preaching against sin or pointing out any form of error in anyone, especially in themselves.

As I stood in a voting line one day I overheard a woman justifying her foolish choice for president by saying, "Well, we aren't supposed to judge." Imagine that! Choosing NOT to judge a political candidate on election day! No wonder our nation is in such a mess!

As for Matthew 7:1, the context (verses 1-5) allows judging after you have first judged YOURSELF. Jesus did not make a blanket statement against judgment. He simply pointed out a RULE for judging.

Now, the word "judge" in its various forms (judgeth, judging, judgment, judges, etc) is found over 700 times in God's word. One whole book of the Bible is titled "Judges" for it was written at a time when God raised up judges to lead His people.

As we are about to see, God EXPECTS His people to judge. In fact, you are sinning against God if you refuse to judge! (Read that again, please)

God Expects Us to Judge

"The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa. 37:30) A righteous person will talk of judgment. He will not REFUSE to judge. He will talk judgment.

"Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph." (Amos 5:14-15) How can you hate the evil and love the good if you refuse to judge? You can't. You are SINNING when you refuse to judge.

Our generation is well described in Isaiah 59:8: "The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace." People have refused to judge, so there is no peace.

Paul said in I Corinthians 1:10 to ". . . be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." Why would Paul make such a statement if judging is wrong? In I Corinthians 2:15 Paul says, "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." Judging is not a sin; judging is a characteristic of being a spiritual person! Satan has been lying to us, hoping that we will NOT judge, because he knows that the right kind of judgment PLEASES God and betters our lives and Christian service.

Someone says, "But should we judge PEOPLE?" Yes, we certainly should. Paul actually REBUKES the Corinthians for NOT judging: "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?" (I Cor. 6:1-5) If judging is wrong, then Paul needs to confess and repent for misleading these Christians! He clearly told them to JUDGE PEOPLE.

If judging people is wrong, how can we obey Romans 16:17-18? II Corinthians 6:17? II Timothy 3:5-6? I John 4:1? Friend, if judging is wrong, then God has contradicted Himself and His words cannot be trusted!

Notice Malachi 3:18: "Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not." WOW! Does that sound like it is wrong to judge?

What about Revelation 2:2? " I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:" Why would the Lord be pleased with these Christians if judging was wrong? Is it not impossible to find someone a "liar" without judging them?

If the Bible is clear about anything, it is clear about the importance of judging on a regular basis in order to properly serve and honor God. To ignore this fact is to ignore all of the Scripture just presented and also the rest of the Bible. God expects us to judge.

God's Rules for Judging

Now I do not wish to imply that we should spend all of our time judging. Sometimes people judge when they have no business doing so. In John 7:24 Jesus tells us to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment. This can only be done by following the rules that God has established in His word. Here follow seven good rules from Scripture:

Judge Scripturally

Isaiah 8:20 says, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Our standard is God's word, not our feelings, our traditions, or our opinions. Right and wrong should always be determined by God's word.

Don't Judge When God's Word Is Silent

If God's word is silent about a subject, then you may not have to judge at all. Don't rush to judgment on an issue when the Bible says very little or is silent about it. Don't make more of a matter than God makes of it. A good example of this is found in Colossians 2:16: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" That is, these are not subjects of great importance today, so let's not make these great issues of judgment.

Pray for Good Judgement Ability

When Solomon received his kingdom he asked God to "Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?" (I Kings 3:9) James 1:5 says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." We should pray for good judgment ability.

Don't Respect Persons

Proverbs 24:23 says, "These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment." Treat all parties fairly without favoring anyone, such as family members or friends. A truly fair judge is blind and deaf to any outer influence. (Isa. 42:1, 19-21)

Judge in Truth

Do not judge another when you do not have all the relevant facts. Jeremiah 5:1 says, "Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it." A true judge is one who seeks the truth. If you must judge, be sure and get all the facts. A Japanese proverb says to "search seven times before you judge."

Judge Mercifully

Remember the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:2: "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." You'll reap what you sow (Gal. 6:7-8). If you are swift and harsh in judging others, then God will see to it that you receive the same from others. Has God not been very merciful to you, even though you deserved it not? Likewise, you should exercise mercy toward others.

Don't Forget to Judge Yourself

I Corinthians 11:30-31: "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged." If you are a true Christian, then you belong to God. You are God's child. If you refuse to judge and improve yourself as a child of God, then God will take it upon Himself to judge you. Many of the troubles that we face in life are nothing more than God's way of judging us since we often neglect to judge ourselves.

Wouldn't it be amazing if every Christian actually took time to judge themselves before judging anyone else? In Matthew 7:4-5, Jesus says, " Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." A good judge will not fail to judge himself.

IN ESSENCE..........Don't Judge is of Satan.

keck553
Sep 6th 2016, 05:35 PM
.... That is Grace in abundance .....

Maybe it has to do with a different country - America seems to be more open minded ????..
here our "special needs" children are banded together in special schools to prevent them beoing the victums of inadiquate teachers, bullying, etc ......

Here we are judged by the church: imperfect marriage relationship reason for disability, or ancestrial sinns, or whatever...... it must be someone's sin!
Judge insifficient Our family: too much or too little discipline depending on who you ask .. it must be someone's fault
Judged unworthy by friends: imperfect parenting .... someone did something wrong ...
Judged by strangers while shopping : can't controll your child...

only recourse is to become an advocate for disabilities and the"differently abled" ......

....m

U still say - you cannot "judge" (Biblically or other wize), what you do not know ......

What you described doesn't sound like the Church of Christ. Now sure what it is.....but you have brothers and sisters over here who are praying for you and your precious child.

mari
Sep 7th 2016, 10:38 AM
The people who translated the bible to English did a curious thing, they translated Judge and Condemn in most cases Judge. Its a bad translation in many cases.

Is It Right to Judge ?

How many times have you heard someone whine, "Judge not, that ye be not judged?" This verse of Scripture from Matthew 7:1 is often quoted out of context by people who are terrified at the idea of someone preaching against sin or pointing out any form of error in anyone, especially in themselves.

As I stood in a voting line one day I overheard a woman justifying her foolish choice for president by saying, "Well, we aren't supposed to judge." Imagine that! Choosing NOT to judge a political candidate on election day! No wonder our nation is in such a mess!

As for Matthew 7:1, the context (verses 1-5) allows judging after you have first judged YOURSELF. Jesus did not make a blanket statement against judgment. He simply pointed out a RULE for judging.

Now, the word "judge" in its various forms (judgeth, judging, judgment, judges, etc) is found over 700 times in God's word. One whole book of the Bible is titled "Judges" for it was written at a time when God raised up judges to lead His people.

As we are about to see, God EXPECTS His people to judge. In fact, you are sinning against God if you refuse to judge! (Read that again, please)

God Expects Us to Judge

"The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa. 37:30) A righteous person will talk of judgment. He will not REFUSE to judge. He will talk judgment.

"Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph." (Amos 5:14-15) How can you hate the evil and love the good if you refuse to judge? You can't. You are SINNING when you refuse to judge.

Our generation is well described in Isaiah 59:8: "The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace." People have refused to judge, so there is no peace.

Paul said in I Corinthians 1:10 to ". . . be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." Why would Paul make such a statement if judging is wrong? In I Corinthians 2:15 Paul says, "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." Judging is not a sin; judging is a characteristic of being a spiritual person! Satan has been lying to us, hoping that we will NOT judge, because he knows that the right kind of judgment PLEASES God and betters our lives and Christian service.

Someone says, "But should we judge PEOPLE?" Yes, we certainly should. Paul actually REBUKES the Corinthians for NOT judging: "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?" (I Cor. 6:1-5) If judging is wrong, then Paul needs to confess and repent for misleading these Christians! He clearly told them to JUDGE PEOPLE.

If judging people is wrong, how can we obey Romans 16:17-18? II Corinthians 6:17? II Timothy 3:5-6? I John 4:1? Friend, if judging is wrong, then God has contradicted Himself and His words cannot be trusted!

Notice Malachi 3:18: "Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not." WOW! Does that sound like it is wrong to judge?

What about Revelation 2:2? " I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:" Why would the Lord be pleased with these Christians if judging was wrong? Is it not impossible to find someone a "liar" without judging them?

If the Bible is clear about anything, it is clear about the importance of judging on a regular basis in order to properly serve and honor God. To ignore this fact is to ignore all of the Scripture just presented and also the rest of the Bible. God expects us to judge.

God's Rules for Judging

Now I do not wish to imply that we should spend all of our time judging. Sometimes people judge when they have no business doing so. In John 7:24 Jesus tells us to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment. This can only be done by following the rules that God has established in His word. Here follow seven good rules from Scripture:

Judge Scripturally

Isaiah 8:20 says, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Our standard is God's word, not our feelings, our traditions, or our opinions. Right and wrong should always be determined by God's word.

Don't Judge When God's Word Is Silent

If God's word is silent about a subject, then you may not have to judge at all. Don't rush to judgment on an issue when the Bible says very little or is silent about it. Don't make more of a matter than God makes of it. A good example of this is found in Colossians 2:16: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" That is, these are not subjects of great importance today, so let's not make these great issues of judgment.

Pray for Good Judgement Ability

When Solomon received his kingdom he asked God to "Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?" (I Kings 3:9) James 1:5 says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." We should pray for good judgment ability.

Don't Respect Persons

Proverbs 24:23 says, "These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment." Treat all parties fairly without favoring anyone, such as family members or friends. A truly fair judge is blind and deaf to any outer influence. (Isa. 42:1, 19-21)

Judge in Truth

Do not judge another when you do not have all the relevant facts. Jeremiah 5:1 says, "Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it." A true judge is one who seeks the truth. If you must judge, be sure and get all the facts. A Japanese proverb says to "search seven times before you judge."

Judge Mercifully

Remember the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:2: "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." You'll reap what you sow (Gal. 6:7-8). If you are swift and harsh in judging others, then God will see to it that you receive the same from others. Has God not been very merciful to you, even though you deserved it not? Likewise, you should exercise mercy toward others.

Don't Forget to Judge Yourself

I Corinthians 11:30-31: "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged." If you are a true Christian, then you belong to God. You are God's child. If you refuse to judge and improve yourself as a child of God, then God will take it upon Himself to judge you. Many of the troubles that we face in life are nothing more than God's way of judging us since we often neglect to judge ourselves.

Wouldn't it be amazing if every Christian actually took time to judge themselves before judging anyone else? In Matthew 7:4-5, Jesus says, " Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." A good judge will not fail to judge himself.

IN ESSENCE..........Don't Judge is of Satan.

Thank you R M - a study to chew on as it is real meat of the Gospel .......

It seams it is all in the intent again - wether to judge a person, an action or simply for the idea of judging.......

....m

mari
Sep 28th 2016, 11:01 AM
The people who translated the bible to English did a curious thing, they translated Judge and Condemn in most cases Judge. Its a bad translation in many cases.
.....

Wouldn't it be amazing if every Christian actually took time to judge themselves before judging anyone else? In Matthew 7:4-5, Jesus says, " Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." A good judge will not fail to judge himself.



the essence seem to be :

... don't judge with criteria or with the intent you do not want yourself to be judged with ........ ??!!

.................... often it is our own faults we find and judge in others ??!!