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Tony P
Dec 16th 2016, 05:30 AM
I had an interesting conversation with someone recently and I want to share his point of view with you all. I, of course, had much to reply, but I will try to share his point of view only and wait to share my own opinions until after seeing what you guys think.

We were talking about praying to Our Father vs. praying to Jesus. He said, "Didn't you know? Jesus IS our Father." Here is his case. (paraphrased)

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus is called Everlasting Father straight up. No matter where you put the commas, Father is still there.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.

He (God) shall see His seed (Christ) and prolong His days? Or...
He (Christ) shall see His seed (Christians) and prolong his days?

Psalm 89:26 He shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.’ 27 Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy I will keep for him forever, And My covenant shall stand firm with him. 29 His seed also I will make to endure forever, And his throne as the days of heaven.

30 “If his sons forsake My law And do not walk in My judgments, 31 If they break My statutes And do not keep My commandments, 32 Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, And their iniquity with stripes. 33 Nevertheless My lovingkindness I will not utterly take from him, Nor allow My faithfulness to fail. 34 My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips. 35 Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David: 36 His seed shall endure forever, And his throne as the sun before Me; 37 It shall be established forever like the moon, Even like the faithful witness in the sky.”

"His seed also I will make endure forever?!" The only possible explanation here is Christ's seed, Christians.
"If His sons forsake my law" they will be punished but not cast out?! Jesus has sons?! Wouldn't that be Christians? If we are His sons, doesn't that make Jesus our Father?

Revelation 1:11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and,“What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia....12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of ManThe Alpha and Omega is One like the Son of Man. Jesus.

Revelation 21:6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

Jesus, the Alpha and Omega, tells us directly that He is God and we shall be His sons. So, in fact, when we pray to Our Father, we are in fact praying to Jesus. He went on to note how Jesus is our intercessor and high priest before God in Hebrews. If we need an intercessor then Jesus' Father isn't yet hearing our prayers. Jesus is the connection through which we reach God. Lastly...

John 16:25 “These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. 26 In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you; 27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God.

Just before Jesus died, He told us the day is coming when we will pray to God in Jesus' name and Jesus will not have to pray the Father on our behalf. That means that Jesus does now have to pray the Father on our behalf. That is why He told us to pray "Our Father who is in Heaven" today. Jesus is our Father.

I may not have covered every point he made, but what do you think?

David Taylor
Dec 16th 2016, 01:26 PM
The Isaiah verse calling Jesus 'Eternal Father', is not intended to address the trinity or create confusion regarding the trinity.

Eternal Father in this useage, is telling us that Jesus is the owner, ruler, authority (like a father role) over the eternal, everlasting, eternity.

Basically it is saying Jesus is the One who is the owner and giver of everlasting life.

kyCyd
Dec 16th 2016, 02:30 PM
Thank you for posting all of that, it is good to see it all. Jesus himself said:
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Iconoclast85
Dec 16th 2016, 03:59 PM
The Isaiah verse calling Jesus 'Eternal Father', is not intended to address the trinity or create confusion regarding the trinity.

Eternal Father in this useage, is telling us that Jesus is the owner, ruler, authority (like a father role) over the eternal, everlasting, eternity.

Basically it is saying Jesus is the One who is the owner and giver of everlasting life.

Yes...John 17:1-3

Tony P
Dec 16th 2016, 07:42 PM
The Isaiah verse calling Jesus 'Eternal Father', is not intended to address the trinity or create confusion regarding the trinity.

Eternal Father in this useage, is telling us that Jesus is the owner, ruler, authority (like a father role) over the eternal, everlasting, eternity.

Basically it is saying Jesus is the One who is the owner and giver of everlasting life.

I don't think he was trying to confuse Jesus as being His own Father, just the we as Christians are sons of Jesus. So, we would be grandsons of the Father.

mailmandan
Dec 17th 2016, 11:12 AM
Thank you for posting all of that, it is good to see it all. Jesus himself said:
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. Yes, one is essence/nature yet two distinct persons.

kyCyd
Dec 17th 2016, 11:43 AM
Yes, one is essence/nature yet two distinct persons.

Jesus addressed this, I think even the disciples found it hard to understand and it was addressed in John 14. I think seeing the verses posted help the understanding of things hard to understand. I believe Jesus.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

mailmandan
Dec 17th 2016, 11:52 AM
Jesus addressed this, I think even the disciples found it hard to understand and it was addressed in John 14. I think seeing the verses posted help the understanding of things hard to understand. I believe Jesus.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? I believe Jesus as well. If you have seen Jesus, then you have seen the Father because Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him (John 14:11).

bluesky22
Dec 18th 2016, 01:28 AM
Thank you for posting all of that, it is good to see it all. Jesus himself said:
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Nicely said!
:)
Thank you Tony.

Tony P
Dec 18th 2016, 01:53 AM
Jesus addressed this, I think even the disciples found it hard to understand and it was addressed in John 14. I think seeing the verses posted help the understanding of things hard to understand. I believe Jesus.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Another excellent point! Jesus is Our Father who art in heaven...