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JollyRoger1970
Apr 23rd 2005, 06:33 PM
Are we, as Christians, still obligated to follow Old Testament teachings?

qbee
Apr 24th 2005, 03:30 AM
The OT encompasses the same teachings as the new with many words of
wisdom and clear teachings on how to live our lives occording to God will..
We are not obligated to follow sacrificial ordinances or levical laws but the
word of God and his knowledge given to us is not complete without the OT.
Of couse we have liberty in Christ but the OT clarifies and enhances the
teachings of Jesus.

God didnt make his OT words obsolete in Christ.
He gave us a more clear understanding of his will and the
reason for everything we have gone through to come to
the knowledge of his great love for us in Christ Jesus.
We are obligated to obey God through Jesus... :)
We are under his grace if we stumble in our walk.

Just my thoughts..

Teke
Apr 25th 2005, 09:44 PM
Are we, as Christians, still obligated to follow Old Testament teachings?


1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

JollyRoger1970
Apr 27th 2005, 12:36 AM
The Old Testament, commonly called "The Law" (2 Kings 17:13; Jeremiah 2:8; Lamentations 2:9; ZEphesians 3:4; Zechariah 7:12; Matthew 7:13; John 1:45; Acts 24:14; Acts 28:23)

The Old Testament was written to guide and direct God's people before the coming of Christ (Gal. 3:23-24; cf. Romans 10:4).

When our Lord died upon the cross, He fulfilled that law (Matthew 5:17; Luke 24:44; Acts 3:18) and therefore the Old Testament was abolished (Ephesians 2:15).

In its place, He gave mankind the New Testament, the system of faith (Acts 6:7; Acts 14:22; Acts 16:5; Acts 24:24; Romans 1:5; Phillipians 1:27; Colossians 1:23; Colossians 2:7,12), to guide and direct His people until the end of the world when He comes again (Matthew 24:30; Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15; John 14:3; Acts 1:11; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 4:16; 2 Thessalonians 1:10; Rev. 1:7).

Jesusinmyheart
Apr 29th 2005, 04:47 PM
Jolly rogers,

I beg to differ on the one statement you made :
When our Lord died upon the cross, He fulfilled that law (Matthew 5:17; Luke 24:44; Acts 3:18) and therefore the Old Testament was abolished (Ephesians 2:15).

Here's what Jesus said in the NT :Matthew 5:17 says: " Do not think that i have come to abolish the Law or the prophets; i have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
(NIV)

JollyRoger1970
May 3rd 2005, 02:49 AM
Jolly rogers,

I beg to differ on the one statement you made :

Here's what Jesus said in the NT :Matthew 5:17 says: " Do not think that i have come to abolish the Law or the prophets; i have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
(NIV)

Hebrews 8:6-13 resolves the "contradiction" between the verse in Ephesians and Matthew.




6But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."

13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Ta-An
May 23rd 2005, 02:52 PM
NT without the OT is like "Fast food" ....you need the nutrition of the OT .
History most of it is, yes, but we are taught the nature of G_d, it is like crawling b4 walking.... babies that don't crawl has learning difficulty..... and some children are made to crawl in occupational therapy to active/stimulate the brain.....
We need the OT as much as the NT.

perlo
Jun 14th 2005, 06:44 PM
All Scripture was given by inspiration etc. There was no new testiment when that statement was written; it could only refer to the old testiment when written. Every one who recieved Jesus as Savior/Yeshua as Messiah did so out of old testiment scriptures. How long did it take for us to compile a 'new testiment' anyway?

ServantofYeshua
Jun 15th 2005, 04:09 AM
As believers in General we are called to follow YHVH's command whether they be listed in the Tanakh or the Brit Chadasha.

Yeshua did not make the Law of God null and void, he couldn't have done so. Ceremonially legalistic law was come to an end with Yeshua, not moral Law. Moral Law still exists and can be summed up in what Christians refer to as the Ten Commandments. These are practiced through love and circumcision of the heart so that all men have an equal chance at eternal life.

Let us hear the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: For this is the whole duty of the man. (Eccl 12:13)

And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12:17, cf. 14:12)

True believers understand that the Laws of God are still valid and were NEVER passed away. Ceremonial or Sacrificial Law is commonly refer to as "The Law of Moses" and the Ten Commandments are Moral Law from YHVH. There is a distinction.

A believer MUST keep the Commandments of God and believe in Yeshua as Messiah to have eternal life..

The moral Law of God is spiritual and is perfect. It cannot be done away with but ceremonial law had to be done away with in order to elevate a believers walk with God.

Here is an excellent paper to read concerning the differences in Ceremonial and Sacrifical Law (The Law of Moses) and Moral Law (The Royal Law of YHVH). It is called Distinction in the Law:

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p096.html

Shalom

perlo
Jun 23rd 2005, 11:03 PM
As believers in General we are called to follow YHVH's command whether they be listed in the Tanakh or the Brit Chadasha.

Yeshua did not make the Law of God null and void, he couldn't have done so. Ceremonially legalistic law was come to an end with Yeshua, not moral Law. Moral Law still exists and can be summed up in what Christians refer to as the Ten Commandments. These are practiced through love and circumcision of the heart so that all men have an equal chance at eternal life.

Let us hear the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: For this is the whole duty of the man. (Eccl 12:13)

And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12:17, cf. 14:12)

True believers understand that the Laws of God are still valid and were NEVER passed away. Ceremonial or Sacrificial Law is commonly refer to as "The Law of Moses" and the Ten Commandments are Moral Law from YHVH. There is a distinction.

A believer MUST keep the Commandments of God and believe in Yeshua as Messiah to have eternal life..

The moral Law of God is spiritual and is perfect. It cannot be done away with but ceremonial law had to be done away with in order to elevate a believers walk with God.

Here is an excellent paper to read concerning the differences in Ceremonial and Sacrifical Law (The Law of Moses) and Moral Law (The Royal Law of YHVH). It is called Distinction in the Law:

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p096.html

Shalom

I agree, but have trrouble with the phrase 'true believers'. I think God starts our learning at the point we are able to recieve and perhaps there are many 'true believers' who have not progressed to this point yet.

Actually one of the biggest problems is the way we take things out of context. Scripture does not say the oft quoted 'Jesus Christ is the end of the law'. The Passage adds two parameters. 'for righteousness' being the first and the second narrows the ending of the law for righteousness to 'them that believe. So in context the law is in effect, yes, even for righteusness. But not for believers. Adoni Tzedkanu. The Lord is our righteousness. ;)

JollyRoger1970
Nov 29th 2008, 01:35 AM
As believers in General we are called to follow YHVH's command whether they be listed in the Tanakh or the Brit Chadasha.

Yeshua did not make the Law of God null and void, he couldn't have done so. Ceremonially legalistic law was come to an end with Yeshua, not moral Law. Moral Law still exists and can be summed up in what Christians refer to as the Ten Commandments. These are practiced through love and circumcision of the heart so that all men have an equal chance at eternal life.

Let us hear the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: For this is the whole duty of the man. (Eccl 12:13)

And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12:17, cf. 14:12)

True believers understand that the Laws of God are still valid and were NEVER passed away. Ceremonial or Sacrificial Law is commonly refer to as "The Law of Moses" and the Ten Commandments are Moral Law from YHVH. There is a distinction.

A believer MUST keep the Commandments of God and believe in Yeshua as Messiah to have eternal life..

The moral Law of God is spiritual and is perfect. It cannot be done away with but ceremonial law had to be done away with in order to elevate a believers walk with God.

Here is an excellent paper to read concerning the differences in Ceremonial and Sacrifical Law (The Law of Moses) and Moral Law (The Royal Law of YHVH). It is called Distinction in the Law:

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p096.html

Shalom


The Old Testament Ten Commandments are expanded on and elaborated by the Sermon on the Mount.

Fenris
Nov 29th 2008, 10:34 PM
The Old Testament Ten Commandments are expanded on and elaborated by the Sermon on the Mount.
Yep. Also in the Talmud.

quiet dove
Dec 1st 2008, 10:02 PM
I am closing this, it is an ancient thread, you guys can just start afresh new one.