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roadrunner570
Jun 17th 2005, 04:38 PM
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkyJmZnYmVs N2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2NzA4MDkz

So what does this make their church? :confused

Wolfdragon
Jun 17th 2005, 04:47 PM
Ok, now I know it's time to look for a new church. The church I was baptized in is a UCC church. I love the atmosphere and the fact that they preach FROM THE BIBLE. But, our new "interim" pastor, is not a good guy when out of the church. This guy is such a womanizer he talked a nun into leaving the convent, married her, and left her for another woman.

There are other little things too. I do like the open minded side of the church. But to debate over the divinity of Jesus??????????:confused That's rediculous.

I have been away from church since our interim pastor started. Now I am thinking it may be a more permanent hiatis. :(

roadrunner570
Jun 17th 2005, 04:49 PM
This comment is priceless



"The whole point of this is that many of these people have a very fuzzy idea of faith in God," said the Rev. Albert W. Kovacs of the Hungarian Reformed Church. "We have significant numbers of clergy who don't believe in God."


So what exactly do they preach about?:confused

GodsOwnFool
Jun 17th 2005, 04:55 PM
Um, why would you choose the profession of clergy, if you don't even believe in God????:confused

IndyLauri
Jun 17th 2005, 06:54 PM
Um, why would you choose the profession of clergy, if you don't even believe in God????:confused

That's what *I* was wondering!!! sheesh, what is UP with people?

roadrunner570
Jun 17th 2005, 08:01 PM
Um, why would you choose the profession of clergy, if you don't even believe in God????:confused

Maybe to do weddings and funerals? :lol:

theabaud
Jun 17th 2005, 08:05 PM
"The whole point of this is that many of these people have a very fuzzy idea of faith in God," said the Rev. Albert W. Kovacs of the Hungarian Reformed Church. "We have significant numbers of clergy who don't believe in God."
Is the hungarian reformed church a part of the UCC?

slightlypuzzled
Jun 17th 2005, 08:06 PM
Um, why would you choose the profession of clergy, if you don't even believe in God????:confused

You could sit around and use the church computer network to play Unreal Tournament.....

roadrunner570
Jun 17th 2005, 08:07 PM
I just googled them and didn't see anything linking the two

Jerome
Jun 17th 2005, 08:12 PM
Isn't this is the same outfit that ordained a tranny minister that we discussed on this board last week?

IndyLauri
Jun 17th 2005, 08:23 PM
Maybe to do weddings and funerals? :lol:

rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are too much.

Wolfdragon
Jun 17th 2005, 08:50 PM
Isn't this is the same outfit that ordained a tranny minister that we discussed on this board last week?

Unfortunately, this is likely, as I know there are a couple of openly g*y pastors in at least California in the UCC. :(

roadrunner570
Jun 17th 2005, 09:22 PM
So does this mean they'll change their name to "United Church of Not-So-Divine-Christ, Possible Son of God or Distant Relation to Higher Being or Inner Self"

theabaud
Jun 17th 2005, 09:32 PM
I just googled them and didn't see anything linking the twoI just wanted to point out that shady journalism, there. SO then does the reformed hungarian church have non-believing clergy, or does the UCC.

roadrunner570
Jun 17th 2005, 09:34 PM
I just wanted to point out that shady journalism, there. SO then does the reformed hungarian church have non-believing clergy, or does the UCC.

Oh, I see what your' saying now. I'm not sure what they're talking about, I'll re-read it

roadrunner570
Jun 17th 2005, 09:37 PM
Actually, they might be connected, look at this list of churches:

http://www.calvinsynod.org/church/location.htm

ProjectPeter
Jun 17th 2005, 11:11 PM
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkyJmZnYmVs N2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2NzA4MDkz

So what does this make their church? :confused
This is one of the most liberal churches in the country so it is no surprise to me.

CorpusIslander
Jun 18th 2005, 12:09 AM
This doesn't surprise me either. I led a nondenominational ministry for 6 years and occasionally worked with the UCC which was hard because I wanted to be open to all denominations but not encourage such bad teachings. For those unfamiliar with the UCC it is the first major denomination to allow homosexuals to become pastors and has for many years has been very liberal. The UCC was formed several decades ago when the Congregational denomination merged with a much smaller group of Reformed congregations but I don't know if any where Hungarian Reformed congregations. The UCC origins started with the Puritans who later became known as Congregationalists (which is the origin also of the Baptists). I had a friend who was a member of the UCC and from Hawaii and understand that it was the Congregationalists who evangelized Hawaii in the mid and late 1800's. I don't know when the denomination strayed from evangelical and Biblical teachings. They're a small denomination in my part of the nation but I understand they're more common in Hawaii and far more common in New England.

IndyLauri
Jun 18th 2005, 12:44 PM
This is the line that got me....


The handful of United Church of Christ churches that submitted the resolution - including a congregation in Woodbridge - say Christ's divinity is the biggest issue facing the denomination :hmm:

How can Christ's divinity be an "issue" in a "Church of Christ?" :confused

Whispering Grace
Jun 18th 2005, 12:51 PM
Thank you God for my conservative, fundamentalist church where I would never have to worrry about people questioning Christ's divinity!

I can't even imagine going to a church where Jesus is not praised as Lord!

roadrunner570
Jun 18th 2005, 09:50 PM
I know Lauri, thats why I said this:

http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=472035&postcount=13

ddlewis86
Jun 18th 2005, 10:08 PM
he talked a nun into leaving the convent, married her,



Sounded a lot like Martin Luther until you got to this part..........


and left her for another woman.


:lol: :lol:

CorpusIslander
Jun 19th 2005, 06:07 AM
Sounded a lot like Martin Luther until you got to this part..........




Luther's wife left the convent before meeting him though. She and several other nuns with her smelled like fish because they escaped by hiding in barrels of fish.

The pastor described in the previous post though sounds like an extremely immoral man.

Libre
Dec 3rd 2007, 03:09 AM
I live right behind a UCC. It will be interesting to see how the vote goes. This shows the danger in leaving too much orthodoxy behind. And you don't need to deny anything in the Bible to have a liberal viewpoint. Those who think this way do not rightly understand the teaching of the Bible. If the church takes a step away from Christ's divinity, it will be a sad commentary on what happens when doctrine becomes favored over meeting Jesus. IMO

Libre

MyRock
Dec 3rd 2007, 04:36 PM
It just amazes me that a group of people that call themselves a church could even think about debating the DIVINITY of Christ. If you believe in His name then you must believe in His divinity! Otherwise how could He save us and do all the things He did if He wasn't divine?

EDIT
Seeing this thread is 2 and a half years old. Do we know what the outcome of the debate is?

HisBlood
Dec 3rd 2007, 04:45 PM
This is why I am a non-denominational Christian.

HisLeast
Dec 3rd 2007, 08:01 PM
So what exactly do they preach about?:confused

Western culture's apex demonstration it has no use for God. If you talk to most people out there today, they'll be so happy that you believe "in something", but its only when you believe yours is the only way that they have trouble. People want to have these little, isolated, belief compartments whereby they can believe whatever they want in that little space and nobody had better disturb them.

So now faith is all about form, and not actual belief. It doesn't matter what you believe, so long as you believe it.

An old friend of mine came to our church once. He was so moved by the experience he said "Rob, how do I become a pastor?". I asked him if that was putting the cart before the horse since he didn't really believe in God. "Isn't that secondary though? I mean the point is to help people and make them feel good isn't it?"

Sad. :cry:

kjw47
Dec 4th 2007, 12:36 AM
This is why I am a non-denominational Christian. Jesus answers all of us in plain english-- revelation 3:12 Listen to Jesus

Big T
Dec 4th 2007, 01:37 AM
EDIT
Seeing this thread is 2 and a half years old. Do we know what the outcome of the debate is?I think this is that "church" that holds this debate annually. They've come to no conclusion.

HisBlood
Dec 4th 2007, 03:11 AM
Jesus answers all of us in plain english-- revelation 3:12 Listen to Jesus

I don't quite get what you mean by this.

Libre
Dec 4th 2007, 03:32 AM
From Adam Clarke: This is the worst of the seven Churches, and yet the most eminent of all the promises are made to it, showing that the worst may repent, finally conquer, and attain even to the highest state of glory.

Libre

jeffreys
Dec 4th 2007, 04:44 AM
The sad truth is that the United Church of Christ has long since been such a theologically liberal institution that it's hard to consider it a church anymore.

I am not kidding, nor am I happy about it, because it's actually very very sad.

kjw47
Dec 5th 2007, 01:16 AM
I don't quite get what you mean by this.
Hi Friend. Jesus is stressing here to all creation that he ( Jesus ) has a God. And we all know that God doesnt have a God. Also Jesus reinforces this truth at Matthew 17:1-6 Jesus while praying to the Father calls the Father -- The only true God -- Also backed by Paul at 1 corinthians 8:6 There is one God to all the Father. The Father is psalm 83:18

HisBlood
Dec 5th 2007, 02:43 AM
Hi Friend. Jesus is stressing here to all creation that he ( Jesus ) has a God. And we all know that God doesnt have a God. Also Jesus reinforces this truth at Matthew 17:1-6 Jesus while praying to the Father calls the Father -- The only true God -- Also backed by Paul at 1 corinthians 8:6 There is one God to all the Father. The Father is psalm 83:18

Well, hello right back at ya!

I don't mean to sound daft, but what does that have to do with my post? Sorry, stress of exam weeks, haha!

Libre
Dec 5th 2007, 03:05 AM
Christian churches run the gamut from Jesus-only to Unitarian - and some to not believe Jesus was divine. Most of us understand the scriptures correctly to see they teach the divinity of Christ. But there are true believers who do not agree with us.

How can they be true believers and not be trinitarian? Well, they stick to actual scriptures, and scripture does not speak of the trinity as we know it. Even some of the early believers did not speak of Jesus as divine. Can one be saved and not be trinitarian? I think so. We need to believe He was the Son of God. I have found no scripture that says we have to believe He is divine.

Anyone?

Libre

Cloudwalker
Dec 5th 2007, 07:09 AM
Let's not get off the topic. The place to discuss specific doctrines is not here. This thread was started to discuss the United Church of Christ debating Christs divinity.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 5th 2007, 12:47 PM
I have found no scripture that says we have to believe He is divine.

Anyone?

LibreJohn 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.

If you believe the 'Word' John is speaking of here IS Yeshua, this should be 'nuff said. I know it is for me. :D

God Bless!

foxglove
Dec 5th 2007, 03:41 PM
Wow, that is very strange! I consider myself very open-minded and I identify as a socially liberal Christian, but I really don't understand this at all. Christ's divinity is not in question and should not be subjected to speculation like this inside a house of worship. If you're gathered to worship God, you shouldn't be debating if God really is God. I'm confused! :confused


"The whole point of this is that many of these people have a very fuzzy idea of faith in God," said the Rev. Albert W. Kovacs of the Hungarian Reformed Church. "We have significant numbers of clergy who don't believe in God."

What is a person doing in a position of leadership in a church if they don't even believe in God? I like atheists. I roommate with one! But she doesn't belong in a clergy position at a Christian church, and she would never think to occupy it.

Ernest Tuff
Dec 28th 2007, 08:37 AM
It's to be expected that many will turn away from the Lord to serve their own purpose. I quote this portion from Jude to draw you attention to the things which will happen towards the near return of Christ.

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Are these not serious words? The Grace is there for us to stand fast in the Faith no matter what.
Regards
Ernest

Ernest Tuff
Dec 31st 2007, 08:38 AM
United Church of Christ Debates Divinity of Christ

There is no Church, worthy of the name Church, has the need to debate such an issue. When that Church?? starts such debates it is already an apostate church. Jude in his letter to the Church warns us of these teachers who would come in among us.
Look at what he says, think on what he says and act on what he says. This is the word of God and not my word.

6 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having menís persons in admiration because of advantage. 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Jude 6-20

These murmurers, womamisers, so called gay clergy and unbelievers are not of the "Church of Jesus Christ" and should not be tolerated. If a born again person meets with such an assembly that tolerates such behaviour he or she is also a partaker of their sins. One would need to leave such and look for another assembly of believers to fellowship with.
Remember the Church is a body of believers not a building not a denomination.

Yours in Christ
Ernest