PDA

View Full Version : Is it right or not to ask for donations for a ministry?



The Parson
Feb 1st 2006, 12:48 AM
Pro or Con...

Since we have received new life for our ministry (PCIM was donated a full blown server and domain name). I have been struggling with the concept of passing the collection plate or not. Honestly, I personally, really don't want to because God has always supplied every need to that ministry over the past 10 years we been online because of prayer. John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I have been told I was being silly by some of my collegues for not and others agree that I should go by my convictions. I thought about putting this on the prayer section but realized that there would probably be some discussion over this and the proper place would be here.

Phillipians 4:17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. 4:18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

After seeing things in the past like some evengelists giving 5 minutes of Gospel and 25 minutes for begging, it has really made me be wary. God's people are not beggars... That I know or at least they shouldn't be.

Psalms 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way. 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. 37:26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.

I really want to know your thoughts folks.

Moderator, please move this thread if it is in the wrong place.

MBJ
Feb 1st 2006, 01:09 AM
Good afternoon, Parson. I tried to find out more about PCIM, but have failed to find any information. I am reticent to express myself too liberally without knowing more about your ministry. However, I will step up to the proverbial plate.

There are two ways to look at the issue. We can either see that God has provided for the ministry without any "begging" for funding. We can also see that somewhere along the line, someone had to share your vision for the ministry in the first place. There is a vast difference in "begging" or "guilting" people into giving of their resources, and sharing your excitement for the ministry with others.

If people do not know there is such a ministry, they will not be interested enough to pray or support it financially. There is nothing wrong with informing others of what it is you do, and how they can be supportive of that ministry either through prayers or through finances - or both! I agree that there is far too much cajoling and begging on many evangelistic programs. It is an excellent thing to be aware of. However, letting people know of a need or a project and its goal is not a bad thing.

I will be looking forward to finding out more about it. I'm sure you have posted it somewhere in the labyrinth of these forums, but I have not found it!
;)

TameVine
Feb 1st 2006, 01:21 AM
This is not an issue that I have much knowledge about. I do however have experience with a ministry who manipulated people and made them feel guilty, even threatening them with shame tactics, if they did not tithe. And I have also had personal experience with a pastor who refuses to ask for money. He only placed a drop box at the back of the church and told people if they wish to tithe or give offerings to place it in that box. He decided that the only way he knew that God was providing for the ministry is if he did not pass the plate or ask for money in any way. If people gave, it was because they listened to Gods voice and had a heart of giving out of love.

I must say that I find it much easier to give when I can slip it quietly into a drop box, than when Im feeling pressured by a plate held out under my nose. I feel that passing a plate often disrupts people in worship. it does not need to be done during worship singing or before or after preaching.

If I were able to tithe, I would mail it in ( If I wanted to claim it on my taxes) or just drop it in without nobody being aware.

T

The Parson
Feb 1st 2006, 01:57 AM
Good afternoon, Parson. I tried to find out more about PCIM, but have failed to find any information. I am reticent to express myself too liberally without knowing more about your ministry. However, I will step up to the proverbial plate.
;) That site is http://parsonscorner.org MBJ. I've already scoped out yours and can see you have a passion for Christian music. Listening to it right now.

On my website I have one link called "Helping the Ministry" It is somewhat simular to TameVines box in the back of the church.

I must say that I find it much easier to give when I can slip it quietly into a drop box, than when Im feeling pressured by a plate held out under my nose. I feel that passing a plate often disrupts people in worship. it does not need to be done during worship singing or before or after preaching.
To give you a little background, not only is PCIM an Apologetics site but at our base location we have folks come in for groceries, clothing, home furningings that have been donated, & counseling. We have a stewardship program here and soon we will have that same program online. Whoever comes in gets the Gospel if they aren't already a child of God, and if they are, encouragment.

Again, we never ask for anything but never refuse if it's offered. The main question though is this, to expand the ministry I have been told I need to start actively asking for funds and I still feel the conviction to keep it like it is even though we are about to and are growing exponentially.

TameVine
Feb 1st 2006, 02:03 AM
Who is it that has told you to actively ask for funds? Are you under some other authority? Do you feel a conviction not to ask people for funds, and why now. Why after doing this ministry that is growing, do funds need to be asked for?

T

I would think that if the ministry is growing and people are giving expodentially , why hit them up for funds?

is there some reason that you are not aware of that more money is needed? If you ask God, will he provide? If you ask God and he does not provide. Could there be some reason God knows best?

alot of questions for sure. Pray, Pray, Pray.

T

devon
Feb 1st 2006, 02:09 AM
Tame, i agree with you fully. devon

The Parson
Feb 1st 2006, 02:14 AM
Who is it that has told you to actively ask for funds? Are you under some other authority? Do you feel a conviction not to ask people for funds, and why now. Why after doing this ministry that is growing, do funds need to be asked for?
T
I would think that if the ministry is growing and people are giving expodentially, why hit them up for funds?
is there some reason that you are not aware of that more money is needed? If you ask God, will he provide? If you ask God and he does not provide. Could there be some reason God knows best?
alot of questions for sure. Pray, Pray, Pray.
T
Well said and no, there is no other authority over this mission but Christ himself. I had discussed with several pastors and evangelists who study with me and I actually gave them the same answer you just posted TameVine.

Their reasoning was that we used to have enough funds on hand to have Bibles to hand out and a good tract ministry as well as a radio broadcast. The funds didn't allow this for the past couple of years and they were pressing me to be more agressive with the requests. Actually, the two of you have confirmed what I already believe... Continue on in prayer and use ONLY what God allows... It would be silly for a ministry to think otherwise. Maybe even contrary to Gods Word also.

Do we really think we can tell God: "Hey, I appreciate what you are sending but let me see if I can help you out a bit Lord." That would be plumb silly.

TameVine
Feb 1st 2006, 02:21 AM
I concur.

so often ministries fail because somewhere down the road, they forget whose ministry it really is. Men can do many good things in Jesus name but if its not Gods will, the work becomes a burden, the load gets heavy and the reward is earthly and not heavenly.

Pastors will burn out once they start doing things under their own strength because then they have to keep it going under their own strength. God pulls back and says, " If you want to do it your way.. have at it" it always ends with burn out pastors and overloaded ministries.

God's Yoke is light.

T

mcgyver
Feb 1st 2006, 05:54 PM
Hi Parson.

I feel that (My opinion here) that to make it possible for people to financially support your ministry through voluntary donations; and to even list needs for prayer and other support is acceptible.

I say this for the following reason:

When we give of ourselves voluntarily (money, time, what have you) we are in fact engaging in an act of worship.

Example, at our church the collection plate is passed around....But it is with the admonition to give joyfully and out of thanksgiving for God's providence, for His work. Never an amount, never a "God needs the money" approach; in fact the pastor has no idea who gives what. He turns his back and sits down on the first pew to avoid seeing who is giving, and to avoid putting pressure on people to give.

The offering is presented as an opportunity to worship in a tangible (if you will) way, as God lays it upon the hearts of the congregation.

Therefore, if we accept that the giving of money for the work of the kingdom is an act of worship; should we then deny people the opportunity to engage in that form of worshipping God?

Just a thought. Blessings in your ministry!

Mighty Mutt
Feb 2nd 2006, 02:10 AM
If your ministry is serving people and you are in a position where you need financial support I see two choices:

1. Ask for donations
2. Reduce the services you provide

Either way, proceed prayerfully and I believe God will make the answer clear. I personally do not think it is wrong for a ministry to ask for support.

theabaud
Feb 3rd 2006, 12:53 PM
It is important to be clear that your Ministry has needs. It is A-OK to ask for donations. At the same time however, it is definately wrong to make a ministry out of asking for donations, such as we see on TV all the time.

Those who give in faith do so in humble worship. It is fine to give that oppurtunity. I would prefer to have a drop box somewhere where I could sneak in and give. That is a great Idea, but I have no problem passing the plate either.

ILUVLIGHT
Feb 3rd 2006, 09:27 PM
Hi Parson;
Before I offer an answer; I have to ask myself did Christ ever begged for money? If we are to follow Him and seek to be like Him. Then Christ should have begged for money. So if asking for money for any purpose is Christ like please show where He did this? The main reason I'm against it is that God will provide for that ministry if the ministery is God's will and not man's. Christ told us to spread the gospel.
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Christ instructed the disciples;

Mar 6:8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse;
Mar 6:9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
Mar 6:10 And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into a house, there abide till ye depart from that place.
Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
A men;
But what about the ministry well if those to whom one ministers doesn't support you then read verse 11 again. If they don't support you they didn't hear your ministry.
It isn't the ministers place to provide even for his own ministry but it is God's place to support you through the listeners. We trust God for everything thats why it's called faith.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike

serapha
Feb 11th 2006, 02:24 AM
Hi there!

:wave:


I'm late putting in my :2cents:


And I see "opinions" here, and how people feel about it, and even some biblical statements...

But in reality, in the early church, everyone sold their possessions and was given according to their need. So, is everyone willing to sell all their possessions to further the church and gospel of Jesus Chrsit and only accept in return what they need?

While we have numerous examples in the New Testament about how the apostles went about evangelizing the world, and we are given a variety of ways that ministries have been supported. Paul collected money for the Jerusalem church, yet, he worked as tentmaker so he would not be a financial burden to others.

I believe we are to tithe to the local church, but that we are also to give offerings according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe that where God guides, God provides. If you have a financial need that isn't being met, then take that need to the Lord. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, the wealth in every mine. Maybe it's time you asked God to sell one of the herd or for God to drop a nugget in your pocket.

If God doesn't provide, well...

~serapha~

The Parson
Feb 12th 2006, 03:49 AM
Never once that I can remember have I asked God specifically for a need to be His Will in the ministry. I asked generally in faith believing and He always supplies but never really prayed specifically. Now there is something to ponder on.

And loe and behold what was in my Bible studies: John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Specifics, and not that name it and claim it nonsense but hernestly praying for specific items and needs... Duh, big red truck...


There was a lady who had bought a new house. After a short period of time living there, it caught fire. She quickly called 911 and said "Help, my house is on fire". The voice on the other end of the line said "ma'am, I'm sorry but your home is so new it isn't in our 911 computer yet. How do we get there?" The lady was a bit aggitated at the voice on the other end of the phone line and said to them "DUH, BIG RED TRUCK":B

ILUVLIGHT
Feb 12th 2006, 09:48 PM
Hi Serapha;

I believe we are to tithe to the local church, but that we are also to give offerings according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe that where God guides, God provides. If you have a financial need that isn't being met, then take that need to the Lord. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, the wealth in every mine. Maybe it's time you asked God to sell one of the herd or for God to drop a nugget in your pocket.

With the exception to tithing we are to bless those who bless us. Tithing in my Humble opinion is returning to the Law. Like being circumcised we don't live by the Law, we can only live by faith. The ministers out there who preach we are robbing God by not tithing are in fact guilty of returning to the Law and the Law never saved a single soul... I believe both Paul and Peter hash this out once. Peter was preaching circumcision. While it is true they are different Laws It is still living by the Law.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike

PLSB
Feb 12th 2006, 11:58 PM
With the exception to tithing we are to bless those who bless us. Tithing in my Humble opinion is returning to the Law. Like being circumcised we don't live by the Law, we can only live by faith. The ministers out there who preach we are robbing God by not tithing are in fact guilty of returning to the Law and the Law never saved a single soul... I believe both Paul and Peter hash this out once. Peter was preaching circumcision. While it is true they are different Laws It is still living by the Law.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike


This brother is right in his previous post and this one. The best place to look for direction is Christ. I have studied the life of Christ for most of my Christian life. Even though many churches and ministries do otherwise, Christ never solicited funds nor taught His followers to do so. If He wanted them to do that, then He would have addressed that issue for sure. Jesus didn't even address tithing except to tell the religious leaders that they tithed instead of taking care of thier parents and instead of operating in mercy and justice.

Brother, let your first instinct guide you. You want to follow Christ's example, so keep doing that. It is hard to do when your peers are handling this issue differently. However, you will always please God by living by faith--especailly where money is concerned. I pray you will have peace as you trust Christ for everything.

Trying to remain faithful,
Pastor Lisa

Isaac-Saxon
Dec 3rd 2007, 06:50 PM
Hi Serapha;

With the exception to tithing we are to bless those who bless us. Tithing in my Humble opinion is returning to the Law. Like being circumcised we don't live by the Law, we can only live by faith. The ministers out there who preach we are robbing God by not tithing are in fact guilty of returning to the Law and the Law never saved a single soul... I believe both Paul and Peter hash this out once. Peter was preaching circumcision. While it is true they are different Laws It is still living by the Law.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike

We still live under the LAW ! Ever read the ten commandments ? Those are laws. Try breaking one and you will soon find out. Now brother Parsons has ask about money ? If you are teaching the Word and rightly dividing it you will not have to ask for money. If you are running a mission for poor people then you might have to ask for donations. There is a major difference between the two. There is a fine line when you think about becoming a enabler but you would have to be there to know. Keep up the good work Parsons the Lord will supply the bricks you build the wall.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 3rd 2007, 08:55 PM
Hello, Parson!

In my ministry I have never asked others but have always asked Him for the specific needs. We don't pass a collection plate but have it located in such a way that those who choose to give may do so and those who don't are not compelled to by shame. I pretty much felt as you do that we trust that God will supply ALL our need so why would we need to ask man for anything? Right? Well, you know what? After reading the responses here the Spirit seems to have quickened me concerning something and led me to this particular scripture:


2 Corinthians 8:1-2 & 13-15 (KJV) ;)
1 Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.

13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

Paul seems to clearly be telling the Corinthians about a need and using what the Macedonians have already given to 'encourage' ;) them to be as 'graceful'. :D I'd never actually thought about as such but it seems to be a sort of fund raiser. :hmm: hmmmm Anyone else have any ideas regarding this passage?

Steve M
Dec 3rd 2007, 09:03 PM
We still live under the LAW ! Ever read the ten commandments ? Those are laws. Try breaking one and you will soon find out. Now brother Parsons has ask about money ? If you are teaching the Word and rightly dividing it you will not have to ask for money. If you are running a mission for poor people then you might have to ask for donations. There is a major difference between the two. There is a fine line when you think about becoming a enabler but you would have to be there to know. Keep up the good work Parsons the Lord will supply the bricks you build the wall.
Hm, Isaac, you've resurected a quite old thread to posit that... which Law are we still under? The Law of Death or the Law of Grace? Thanks.

always
Dec 3rd 2007, 09:04 PM
The bible states that we have not because we ask not

James 4:2

as long as what you are doing is in the will of the Lord, asking for a donation should be fine, God will move on the individuals heart to give or not give

amazzin
Dec 3rd 2007, 09:08 PM
Since planting our new church last September we give people the opportunity to give. We do not pass an offering plate but we have a box in the back for those who wish to avail themselves.

I do occassionalyteach/preach on giving but not like many are used to. I teach/preach it as an expression of God in our lives. Never do I do so to force peple to give or to make them give out of guilt.

Let me add this as a comment. Compared to what was being given in a previous church where we did pass a plate, today I see more poeple giving and giving largely! PTL