PDA

View Full Version : Where does the Bible Say We Have to go to Church?



digger
Aug 20th 2006, 02:40 AM
I am a Christian, and I have a Christian friend who will not discuss this civilly with me. She just tells me that "that's what God wants" and other simple arguments that she never supports. She'll send me an email from her pastor that dances around the topic, and states that it's good for the church if we go. I like the people at my church. It's a friendly environment. However, I feel like we waste so much time on our own concerns, that God is pushed to the back burner. I've been to several churches, and I find the same thing everywhere.

I am sick of pastors using God to justify their political beliefs. Two weeks ago, our pastor gave a lecture on how Islam cannot defend itself from attacks, because vengence is the Lord's. Then he goes on to say how we are obligated to God to retaliate when we are attacked... Huh? Ok, I don't want to get into political debates here - PLEASE! My point is that these sermons have nothing to do with the worship of God, but justification of our own seflish desires.

Next - Too many sermons are focused on debatable doctrine. Why do we have so many denominations and conflicting beliefs? Because there are very well-educated, God-loving Christians on all sides of any given issue. So then, why do we focus our church time on proving our own covictions to be accurate, and all others wrong? Because of our selfish desire to have God on our side, rather than a desire to change our views so that we are on God's side.

Why do we waste so much time in church NOT worshipping God?

I'd rather stay at home and listen to Alexander Scourby's reading of the KJV. I feel closer to God doing that and praying, then I ever have at church.

I'm not satisfied with someone telling me "that's what it says in the Bible," or, "that's what God wants," or, "God told me so-and-so..." Where does it say in the Bible that God wants us to go to church every Sunday, and that it's ok to judge and shout down those who don't?

Please give me a clear, specific verse, or chapter.... or a bunch of them, but please don't send me on a wild goose chase, I'd like an answer.
Thank you.

a sojourner
Aug 20th 2006, 03:03 AM
Why do we have so many denominations and conflicting beliefs? Because there are very well-educated, God-loving Christians on all sides of any given issue. So then, why do we focus our church time on proving our own covictions to be accurate, and all others wrong? Because of our selfish desire to have God on our side, rather than a desire to change our views so that we are on God's side.

I'd rather stay at home and listen to Alexander Scourby's reading of the KJV. I feel closer to God doing that and praying, then I ever have at church.

So, in order to solve the problem of disunity, you propose that everyone should just stay at home and worship God by themselves?

disiple56
Aug 20th 2006, 03:05 AM
It sounds to me like you need to go looking for a church. God does NOT command us to retaliate. The first thing I would do is pray hard about it. The second thing I would do is start checking the churches in your area. Ask the Pastor what the doctrine of the church is. Ask people on this forum questions (like you just did). Do your research. If any Pastor tells you that his is the only denomination that teaches the truth, RUN!!!

God will lead you where he wants you, but it will require effort on your part. As for where it says in the Bible thaty we have to go to church. We shouldn't go because we have to. We should go because we love God. We also need to go to encourage one another.

Hebrews 10:25.
Heb 10:25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another —and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

disiple56
Aug 20th 2006, 03:10 AM
Why do we waste so much time in church NOT worshipping God?

I'd rather stay at home and listen to Alexander Scourby's reading of the KJV. I feel closer to God doing that and praying, then I ever have at church.




Why do you waste time at church not worshiping God? When I go to church I worship God. I don't care what the guy sitting next to me does. I worship God. You get out what you put in.

redseeker
Aug 20th 2006, 03:17 AM
God never said that we had to go to church every sunday and its not okay to judge. Some verses that came to mind were:
- Matt. 7 1-2 "Do not judge or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
- Hebrews 10:19-25
- and i just found this one.... Matt 18: 20 For where two or three come together in my name, there I am with them.

First off we shouldn't be judging people just because they don't go to church. People can carry on a relationship with God, w/o going to church. However it is better to have christian fellowship so as it says in Hebrews so that we may continue to encouarge one another. And church SHOULD be about worshiping God. If a church doesn't do that, either don't attend there, or get a group of people together and make it happen. But it shouldn't stop you from attending any church.



And the church is not just a building its the people.



Hope you found this helpful!

REDSEEKER

BCF
Aug 20th 2006, 03:51 AM
I am a Christian, and I have a Christian friend who will not discuss this civilly with me. She just tells me that "that's what God wants" and other simple arguments that she never supports. She'll send me an email from her pastor that dances around the topic, and states that it's good for the church if we go. I like the people at my church. It's a friendly environment. However, I feel like we waste so much time on our own concerns, that God is pushed to the back burner. I've been to several churches, and I find the same thing everywhere.

I am sick of pastors using God to justify their political beliefs. Two weeks ago, our pastor gave a lecture on how Islam cannot defend itself from attacks, because vengence is the Lord's. Then he goes on to say how we are obligated to God to retaliate when we are attacked... Huh? Ok, I don't want to get into political debates here - PLEASE! My point is that these sermons have nothing to do with the worship of God, but justification of our own seflish desires.

Next - Too many sermons are focused on debatable doctrine. Why do we have so many denominations and conflicting beliefs? Because there are very well-educated, God-loving Christians on all sides of any given issue. So then, why do we focus our church time on proving our own covictions to be accurate, and all others wrong? Because of our selfish desire to have God on our side, rather than a desire to change our views so that we are on God's side.

Why do we waste so much time in church NOT worshipping God?

I'd rather stay at home and listen to Alexander Scourby's reading of the KJV. I feel closer to God doing that and praying, then I ever have at church.

I'm not satisfied with someone telling me "that's what it says in the Bible," or, "that's what God wants," or, "God told me so-and-so..." Where does it say in the Bible that God wants us to go to church every Sunday, and that it's ok to judge and shout down those who don't?

Please give me a clear, specific verse, or chapter.... or a bunch of them, but please don't send me on a wild goose chase, I'd like an answer.
Thank you.

Dear digger,

My friend in Christ. You and no one else will ever find anywhere in the Bible where it tells you that you must go to Church to Worship Our Lord. I can take you to scripture that tells us how the Church is suppose to be, and how it is suppose to be run, and how the disciples made the assembly of the Church, but I or no one else will be able to give you scripture that tells you that you should go to Church. Now don't get me wrong, people can make scripture to sound or mean anything that they want. But my friend, what you must keep in mind always is what God say's in his Word, that is how a Church should be. Now I am not in no way telling you that you should not go to Church. All I am doing is answering your question. I personally do not go to Church myself, but I have my own reasons for that. I believe that having Faith in our Lord is about a Relationship not Religion. I am in no way putting down the Church or anyone who goes to Church, this is just my opinion. So please do not judge me. Jesus did one of his most famous teachings out side of the Church, which was called the Sermon on the Mount. Most of the teachings Our Lord did were not in a Church (synagogues). When Christians tell me that I should go to Church I tell them how Jesus warns us about not going to Church in Matthew 10:17 when he say's, "But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge (whip) you in their synagogues. But I want to warn you my friend, taking a stand for Our Lord like you are is very hard to do in this day and age. Christians will tell you that you are not a Christian if you do not go to Church. Do not be surprised if your friend tells you that you are not a Christian because you do not go to Church. My friend do not believe them because this is not true. God does not care where you Worship him or give Praises to him, as long as you do it. God don't care if you do it in a field, in a car, or in a barn, just so you are doing it from your heart and you mean it with all of your heart. You just keep searching Gods Word and the Truth of it, and don't worry so much about what man has to say about where you need to Worship God at. God Loves you no matter where you are giving Him Worship at, and where ever you are giving God that Worship and Praise from, God is there.:) :)

Keep on, Keeping on,

digger
Aug 20th 2006, 03:56 AM
Thank you all for your answers.

You get out what you put in - simply not true. Not true at all. I never talk politics at church, I'm there to worship God. If I can't do that there, becasue I'm listening to some sanctimonious rant, I'll stay home. I think your logic has more to do with joining the team, regardless of what that team represents. And if this is the case, I have serious doubts about God wanting us all to mindlessly join that team.

Don't worry about what they guy next to you is doing - I'm not, just the guy at the front of the room.

He says he has the only truth, RUN! - That's what I've been doing. I'm so sick of church shopping. Think I'll try some non-denominational.

Where 2 or 3 are gathered - thinking about starting a private study group, or finding one. Maybe in a situation where people are seeking God rather than social acceptance, or a platform for their views that have nothing to do with God, I'll feel closer.

I'm so disillusioned with organized religion... I'm losing all faith in the church. If God is to be worshipped in truth and spirit, should I not avoid activities that impede that? Homophobia, misogyny, politics, economics, war... I really don't care what people think of these subjects... at least not when I'm at church.

"I stand outside the door and knock.." Maybe churches need doorbells.

Why is the church no better than the world? I thought the church was a refuge.

EDIT: Sorry I'm so frustrated. I want to find fellowship. I'm venting something that's built up for a long time.

digger
Aug 20th 2006, 03:59 AM
BCF - saw your post after I posted. Thank you. I guess I'm just like most others in that I'm happy to hear someone agreeing with my beliefs... So I'm certainly not unbiased. It's encouraging to know that other Christians out there can support me a little on this... I don't know what to think, but thank you for your words.

mheat923
Aug 20th 2006, 04:03 AM
I do not know od scripture that tells you ..that you must attend "church" as in a building but I can find many scriptures that tell us to that fellowship with other believers is for our good...and yes there aree bad things that happen when we fellowship with others..but you can only make a difference if you are there...leaving or not attending church does not make a differeence in how a particular church is ....

below is information I looked up...



FELLOWSHIP—sharing things in common with others. In the New Testament, fellowship has a distinctly spiritual meaning. Fellowship can be either positive or negative.

Positively, believers have fellowship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (John 17:21-26; Phil. 2:1; 1 John 1:3), as well as with other believers (Acts 2:42, 1 John 1:3, 7). We have been welcomed warmly to fellowship with God, in the sense of sharing things in common with Him, for He has raised our status through the death and resurrection of Christ (Eph. 2:4-7). Believers are invited to share in common with God (1) a relationship as sons and daughters (John 1:12-13); His own holy character (1 Pet. 1:15), and the privileges of partnership with all things in Christ (Rom. 8:16; Eph. 2:6).

All who have fellowship with Christ also need to nurture fellowship with other believers (Heb. 10:25), a fellowship that illustrates the very nature of God Himself (John 13:35; Eph. 5:1-2; 1 John 1:5-10).

Conversely, believers are not to have fellowship with unbelievers. This means to not share in the world’s sinful lifestyle (2 Cor. 6:14-18). It does not mean to withdraw from society, for all believers are called to live and share the gospel with a blinded, unbelieving world (2 Cor. 4:1-7; Phil. 2:14-16).
[/URL] (http://bibleforums.org/#_ftn1)Hayford, J. W., & Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1995). Hayford's Bible handbook. Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.






FELLOWSHIP. (Acts 2:42) koinonia (koy-nohn-ee-ah); Strong’s #2842: Sharing, unity, close association, partnership, participation, a society, a communion, a fellowship, contributory help, the brotherhood. (Compare “coin,” “cenobite,” “epicene.”) Koinonia is a unity brought about by the Holy Spirit. In koinonia the individual shares in common an intimate bond of fellowship with the rest of the Christian society. Koinonia cements the believers to the Lord Jesus and to each other.
(http://bibleforums.org/#_ftn1)Hayford, J. W., & Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1995). Hayford's Bible handbook. Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.






Fellowship—sharing together

A. Based upon common:

Purpose Ps. 133:1–3

Belief Acts 2:42

Conviction 1 Pet. 3:8

Work Neh. 4:1–23

Hope Heb. 11:39, 40

Faith 1 Sam. 20:30–42

Suffering Dan. 3:16–30

Need 2 Cor. 8:1–15

B. Persons sharing together:

Father, the Son, and Christians 1 John 1:3

Christ and Christians 1 Cor. 1:9

Holy Spirit and Christians Phil. 2:1

Apostles Acts 2:42

Believers 1 John 1:7

C. Things shared together:

Material things 2 Cor. 8:4

Suffering Phil. 3:10

The gospel ministry Gal. 2:9

Gospel privileges Phil. 1:5

Gospel mystery Eph. 3:9

Lord’s Supper Mark 14:22–25

1 Cor. 10:16, 17
[URL="http://bibleforums.org/#_ftnref1"] (http://bibleforums.org/#_ftn1)The Open Bible : New King James Version. 1998, c1997. Includes indexes. (electronic ed.) (Ge 1:1). Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.




I also found some related articles on Church itself if you are i ntrested in them...sorry I quoted more then I said but I am not near as good as explaining what I read....

I do believe fellowship with other believers is a very important part of our walk with God...

BCF
Aug 20th 2006, 04:09 AM
Why is the church no better than the world?

In my opinion, it is because the Church has forgotten how to Love, and the reason they had forgotten how to Love is because it has forgotten it's first Love, and the reason it has forgotten it's first Love is because it is all about Religion.

Jesus is not about Religion. Jesus is about Love, and Relationship. The Church of today has nothing to do with either one of these things. They do in the world way of doing them (love and relationship), but not Gods way.

But just my opinion.

a sojourner
Aug 20th 2006, 04:13 AM
Digger-

You are almost in a good place. Almost.

You are sort of seeking true religion, but sort of just bitter. I'm not saying this to make fun of you are put you down, I'm trying to give you some advice from someone who has been there and felt what you are feeling.

I'll tell you a secret that I have discovered in my years of seeking a true expression of the Church. If you have an attitude like what you have put accross in your posts, you will never find the Church as hard as you might look.

What I mean is this. Ranting about what a crummy guy your pastor is is worthless and unedifying. Have you ever asked the guy about any of this? Have you ever spoken up to anyone in your church about the way that you feel? If you haven't, you might be suprised if you do.

Allowing your heart to become bitter is not the answer. You are a Christian, so you must love and forgive. Does this mean staying at your church and enduring it? Maybe for you it does, maybe it doesn't. But you must ask the Lord for His will, or you will never know!

You ask good questions. You shouldn't accept the status quo if it doesn't line up with scriptures. But from what I can tell from your posts, you are still young in the scriptures and your knowledge of God. Again, I'm not putting you down, I'm just trying to save you some time and pain. Keep searching the Word, and be dilligent in prayer.

Most of all, remember humility. Humility, humility, HUMILITY! This is the most important thing for you to keep in mind. Ask for humility from the Lord. Strive for it in prayer and study of the Word. Strive for it in your daily life. Let humility be your goal. That is how you will one day find true Christian fellowship. It is the ONLY way you will find it, no matter how hard you look.

I learned this the hard way. I pray that you won't have to!

digger
Aug 20th 2006, 04:34 AM
Thank you all.. All of your posts have been helpful, but especially asojourner and BCF. (EDIT: no, they ALL are very helpful) I really liked the post on fellowship, asojourner (EDIT: sorry, mheat). I know my attitude doesn't help. I've become very cynical. I moved, and I'm really new in this church, so I haven't spoken up... I don't think it's my place yet. The pastor is not a crummy guy at all. They are very friendly people who love and worship the Lord. It's a small church, and they are doing their best. Unfortunately, as they speak of how poorly other churches are doing in terms of obedience to God, they seem to follow a lot of the same formulas. I really hope they don't read this and think I hate them. They have been nothing but welcoming to me. I'm just really confused and frustrated about church... not about being a Christian. I just wish the people (one friend really) I care about would listen to what I have to say. I'm no expert on scriptures. I know that. Still, I feel uncomfortable simply buying what whoever happens to be around tries to sell me regarding what the Bible really says or means. There is a lot of brainwashing in the name of religion out there. Not everyone, of course. I'm just trying to find a way to be obedient to God without simply subscribing to the beliefs of those around me - just because they go to church. The truth is hard to find, and very well defended.

digger
Aug 20th 2006, 04:39 AM
it's Sunday where I am. there's still 2 or 3 of us following this thread.. so...

Thanks for the help, all.

Pardon my frustration, please.

This is really nice.

BCF
Aug 20th 2006, 04:52 AM
Thank you all.. All of your posts have been helpful, but especially asojourner and BCF. I really liked the post on fellowship, asojourner. I know my attitude doesn't help. I've become very cynical. I moved, and I'm really new in this church, so I haven't spoken up... I don't think it's my place yet. The pastor is not a crummy guy at all. They are very friendly people who love and worship the Lord. It's a small church, and they are doing their best. Unfortunately, as they speak of how poorly other churches are doing in terms of obedience to God, they seem to follow a lot of the same formulas. I really hope they don't read this and think I hate them. They have been nothing but welcoming to me. I'm just really confused and frustrated about church... not about being a Christian. I just wish the people (one friend really) I care about would listen to what I have to say. I'm no expert on scriptures. I know that. Still, I feel uncomfortable simply buying what whoever happens to be around tries to sell me regarding what the Bible really says or means. There is a lot of brainwashing in the name of religion out there. Not everyone, of course. I'm just trying to find a way to be obedient to God without simply subscribing to the beliefs of those around me - just because they go to church. The truth is hard to find, and very well defended.


That's great. I'm glad that you found a Church that you can attend. Do so and do so faithfully as long as you have peace about going. Always listen to your heart and to what is being taught. Make sure that what is being taught in the pulpit, is being produced in the Church. Continue to read the scripture and grow in the Lord, and feel free to always ask questions. There is never a stupid question when it comes to learning about Our Lord. God wants us to Love Him just as much as He Loves Us. One peice of advice that I will give you though is this. If you are not sure of what you are being told, look it up in the Bible and see what God say's about the issue. God will never ever lead you wrong.

May God bless you Richly with your New Found Church, and in All of Your Understanding. ;)

digger
Aug 20th 2006, 05:01 AM
Thanks BCF. I'll be doing what I can.

TEITZY
Aug 20th 2006, 05:26 AM
I'm no expert on scriptures. I know that. Still, I feel uncomfortable simply buying what whoever happens to be around tries to sell me regarding what the Bible really says or means. There is a lot of brainwashing in the name of religion out there. Not everyone, of course. I'm just trying to find a way to be obedient to God without simply subscribing to the beliefs of those around me - just because they go to church. The truth is hard to find, and very well defended.

Don't take this the wrong way, BUT you seem to be pointing the finger at all and sundry in the organized Church yet you yourself admit that you are "no expert on scriptures". The truth will be "hard to find" if you're not even sure what the truth is yourself! Perhaps you would like to share with us what you believe are the fundamentals of the Christian faith or common beliefs that define a group of believers as a church? Not many Christians can live victorious lives without regular fellowship which is probably why believers are exhorted/commanded to fellowship in the NT.

Here is a basic statament of faith for this board. What do you think?
http://bibledatabase.com/belief.html

Cheers
Leigh

digger
Aug 20th 2006, 05:41 AM
Woah - God just told me pretty clearly.. almost as soon as I left this forum.

BTW, in response to last comment, when I see experts disagreeing so much, I refuse to subscribe to anything that they are debatiung about. Not sure if I understood your point there, but that's all I'm really saying. Yes, I understand how important fellowship is.

digger
Aug 20th 2006, 06:04 AM
TEITZY - I see the fundamentals as this

God loves us so much that he entered into this world to die - in order to satisfy His perfect law, and pay for our sins with His own blood. He rose from the dead.

The thing you said about truth is confusing. How will I find truth if I don't know what it is? That's the point. Finding truth is the same thing as figuring out what it is. At least in the way I meant it. To my knowledge, I haven't met anyone who has the whole truth yet. I have met many who think they do.

TEITZY
Aug 20th 2006, 12:03 PM
TEITZY - I see the fundamentals as this

God loves us so much that he entered into this world to die - in order to satisfy His perfect law, and pay for our sins with His own blood. He rose from the dead.

The thing you said about truth is confusing. How will I find truth if I don't know what it is? That's the point. Finding truth is the same thing as figuring out what it is. At least in the way I meant it. To my knowledge, I haven't met anyone who has the whole truth yet. I have met many who think they do.

No one person or church is right on every point of doctrine or truth but there are certain basic and essential truths which form the foundation of the Christian faith. If you are familiar with these at least you can make a judgment on whether a church or pastor is 'Christian' in the Biblical sense.

If you think you can find a 'perfect' church where everything that is said or done will be consistent with your own convictions or tastes, then you're going to be bitterly disappointed. Every church is going to teach what they believe (ie. the fundamentals plus their own tradition or beliefs) so you can't really avoid that. The best church for you (or any Christian) is the one that upholds the authority of the Word of God. I'd be surprised if you couldn't find one church in your area where the pastor doesn't preach every week from the Word. If a church upholds the authority of the Bible as the inspired Word of God, then they will also hold to the fundamentals and should also provide the teaching you desire to assist your worship of God.

Cheers
Leigh

a sojourner
Aug 20th 2006, 05:49 PM
Digger-

I'd recommend a good study of what the Bible says about Christian fellowship. Start with 1 Corinthians (the whole book, but especially chapters 11-14.)

Study the Lord's Supper. Read what Jesus said about it when he first instituted it the night before His arrest. Read what Paul says about it in 1Cor. 11.

Something like that would be helpful to you and edifying. As I said before, I have been in (and in some ways I am still in) your position. These scriptures have been an incredible blessing to me, and have given me greater discernment concerning fellowship.

May God direct your heart in righteousness to godly brothers and sisters who will build you up, and who you will build up as well, into the head which is Christ.

I'm glad you didn't take my previous post too harshly! That is always a danger with this type of communication.

BCF
Aug 20th 2006, 07:49 PM
Woah - God just told me pretty clearly.. almost as soon as I left this forum.

BTW, in response to last comment, when I see experts disagreeing so much, I refuse to subscribe to anything that they are debatiung about. Not sure if I understood your point there, but that's all I'm really saying. Yes, I understand how important fellowship is.


digger,

I'm just asking here, are you refering to something that I said to you or what? I'm not sure, that's why I am asking.

digger
Aug 21st 2006, 02:53 AM
No, BCF. It wasn't that..though the thoughtful contributions of caring Christians mean a lot to me. I have a widget on my desktop called daily manna, and it popped up with Ecclesiastes 5:1-2. It basically says to watch your step in church and keep your mouth shut. It didn't precisely answer my question, but it confirms my behavior in church so far... maybe implying how I think about what goes on in church when I'm at home.

Thanks to TEITZY - My church most definitely believes in the authority of God and the scriptures. There is absolutely no question in my mind about their devotion and faith. Maybe I just feel guilty when I don't go, and their disappointment when I miss is probably in large part due to the fact that they are really struggling to grow. I should overlook the politics, as this is not their primary goal. It's rarely mentioned. I guess I'm a bit touchy in that subject - at least when it's intertwined with Christianity. It's selfish of me to focus on that when they are doing such important work. To be honest, I just hate sitting through the songs, and all the other stuff that takes time away from the sermon. I know this is bad. This is glorious for God, and a great way to worship Him. I just would like more time spent on learning the scriptures, because it seems like that is how we can really get closer to God. I wish more sermons would get into advanced teachings, but I guess that's what Bible studies are for.

Sojourner. I was not in the least bit offended. You were totally respectful and honest. I cannot be offended or insulted, no matter how much someone's view contrasts with my perspective, or hurts my ego, or reveals weakness or even stupidity on my part. As long as it is delivered with respect and sensitivity, I'll consider anything. Thanks for your sincere thoughts. I do appreciate it.

Basically, I feel like I should go to church when I want to, but never go in grumbling because I feel obliged. That doesn't seem like true worship anyways. I guess my issue is getting over the feeling that I'm being judged when I don't go. Am I being a pick-and-choose Chirstian? I don't know. I'll just keep seeking, and I'm sure the answer will come eventually. I still love to listen to the bible while I fall asleep, maybe 3 or 4 nights a week... I still pray a lot.. and I'm still doing my (pitifull) best to live the way I think God wants me to. So, I don't feel like I'm falling away from Him. Now I just have to figure out how He feels about other decisions in my life, like - work, school... ugh! I wish I could just call Him on the phone. I know what you're going to say in response to that statement, but I guess I'm hard of hearing!

Thanks all.

V34
Aug 21st 2006, 04:00 PM
My church, The Assembly of God is awesome! My pastor is awesome!
He is a Godly man that only preaches the word of God. He relates
everything to the word. He brings curent events to a head and how they
related to the word. I would say that you need to find a church that has
a humble Pastor. One that only praises God and Jesus our lord. I was
born and Raised chatholic, then went to protestant (because of my wife)
then after I got a divorce I went bible study with my Aunt and she helped
save me. Thank GOD Amen!! I was on a path to destruction and Jesus
used his children to save me!! I'll stop rambling but what it comes down to
is finding a real church!

God Bless,
Jason V.

newdaddy1223
Aug 26th 2006, 05:09 AM
my two cents........ i have been extremely blessed with my church. I go to Calvary Chapel, non-denominational church which teaches through the whole Bible verse-by-verse, chapter by chapter, book by book. They have remained faithful to God's word for 30 years and I have learned so much more about the Bible than I did in my old church. I would like to remind all of us- myself included-- that we need to be Bereans. Acts 17:11 says :"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so"

Tiffany2
Aug 26th 2006, 08:44 AM
I do recall seeing the obvious scripture everyone uses about not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together.

I do prefer to see the spiritual patterns of church attendance that is in similtudes and types and shadows. Kind of how the Lord told his disciples that he did some things in parables so some wouldn't see but explained them clearly to his disciples. The very things our dear brother Paul showed us in the law and prophets.

The men of Abraham's family, so to speak assembled for circumcision. This is a type and shadow of the circumcision of the heart which takes place in church hearing the anointed word of God. Had they rebelled or stayed at home they would not have been part of the promise.

Noah who is a type and shadow of Jesus called his family into the ark as our precious Lord has called us into the household of faith. All who forsook not the assembling were sealed in and escaped the wrath of God in that generation kind of how the Holy Ghost seals us to the day of redemption. But of course like Noah and his family we too must gather in the ark, or church to be saved.

The children of Israel gathered at the Mount to hear the words of God. Had they not assembled they would never have heard. Faith cometh by hearing. Had they not heard they could not walk in faith. In like manner if we refuse not to gather at the mount, or go to church we will not hear the words of God. Since faith cometh by hearing and since it takes the spirit of God to give the message to the pastor forsaking the assembling can cause you to not hear nor grow in faith. The reason I say church and not some TV evangelist is because for one, he doesn't know his flock or what they need and for two, the word of God says he delights in an offering by sacrifice. Even David paid full price to make a place to offer. The word says we should offer up the sacrifice of praise. Hard to do at home with no effort, and expect God to be pleased when he expected an effort and sacrifice for his chosen.

I guess the list could go on as there are plenty of instances where the the people offered at high places and other types and shadows of going to church. Maybe God just didn't bother to put many open references so he could see who loves him enough to seek them out and go and who is looking for a loophole to get by without going.

I hope this helps.

Tiffany

kellie_
Aug 26th 2006, 12:31 PM
I guess the question is ...

How do you define worship ??

water
Aug 26th 2006, 02:19 PM
There are other verses already mentioned above, and I also have this verse to keep me going to the Church as many times as I can:

(Luke 22:19) Jesus told his disciples to "do this in remembrance of me".
(Mark 10:14) Let the children come to me.

Therefore, it doesn't matter what people talk about, if I don't feel comfortable with that Church, I will find another one to attend. I would not let others' concerns stopping me from going to the Church.

Saved7
Sep 18th 2006, 03:14 PM
I've done the whole church shopping bit myself...it's hard to go through. However, just when I was at my wits end, I had stopped attending church and been praying. I meant to visit this little church to see what it was about, but I just didn't remember to...might have had something to do with loss of interest because of the very reasons mentioned above. I had been praying and cleaning house one particular day, and guess what. The church came to me. I knew what I sought, I sought what the bible describes...love of the Lord, love of the bretheren, acceptance, truth...etc. You get the idea. I was so desperate to be among fellow believers and hear "THE GOSPEL" preached, that I was just crying out to God this day. And would you believe that it happened to be the church had started going door to door and inviting people to church, and it just so happened that it was the Pastor and the Deacon that showed up at my door. Upon my first visit there, I fell absolutely in love with it/them. And when we get new people there, they keep coming back for the gospel that is preached with love.;)

Beloved by God
Sep 18th 2006, 05:50 PM
Dear digger,

My friend in Christ. You and no one else will ever find anywhere in the Bible where it tells you that you must go to Church to Worship Our Lord. I can take you to scripture that tells us how the Church is suppose to be, and how it is suppose to be run, and how the disciples made the assembly of the Church, but I or no one else will be able to give you scripture that tells you that you should go to Church. Now don't get me wrong, people can make scripture to sound or mean anything that they want. But my friend, what you must keep in mind always is what God say's in his Word, that is how a Church should be. Now I am not in no way telling you that you should not go to Church. All I am doing is answering your question. I personally do not go to Church myself, but I have my own reasons for that. I believe that having Faith in our Lord is about a Relationship not Religion. I am in no way putting down the Church or anyone who goes to Church, this is just my opinion. So please do not judge me. Jesus did one of his most famous teachings out side of the Church, which was called the Sermon on the Mount. Most of the teachings Our Lord did were not in a Church (synagogues). When Christians tell me that I should go to Church I tell them how Jesus warns us about not going to Church in Matthew 10:17 when he say's, "But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge (whip) you in their synagogues. But I want to warn you my friend, taking a stand for Our Lord like you are is very hard to do in this day and age. Christians will tell you that you are not a Christian if you do not go to Church. Do not be surprised if your friend tells you that you are not a Christian because you do not go to Church. My friend do not believe them because this is not true. God does not care where you Worship him or give Praises to him, as long as you do it. God don't care if you do it in a field, in a car, or in a barn, just so you are doing it from your heart and you mean it with all of your heart. You just keep searching Gods Word and the Truth of it, and don't worry so much about what man has to say about where you need to Worship God at. God Loves you no matter where you are giving Him Worship at, and where ever you are giving God that Worship and Praise from, God is there.:) :)

Keep on, Keeping on,

This is how I feel. I go to Church when I can, but I don't feel bad about not going every time the doors are open. There is a verse about how some people make time everyday to worship, and others do it on one day. And God is okay with both.

poppa_50
Sep 27th 2006, 07:04 PM
The Bible does not tell us we have to breathe either.

But I can relate to you very much. I have my own philosophy on church going. We expect God to do everything with that one hour we give Him. I don't care what church you go to. You got the rest of the week. Liturgical. Contemporary. There is no perfect "hour", nor is there meant to be.

I drove over 35 miles to go to church last Sunday. The pastor must have gotten out of bed and decided that he should start his sermon. It was pretty much off the cuff. We went away thinking...church is family. We need relationships with others. We need Bible talks with others during the week.

I do have high standards and not willing to compromise. That limits my choices. I too have considered starting a small group of like minded.

The hand cannot say to the foot, "I don't need you."

As soon as you find a perfect church, you would not be good enough for them.

Keep the Love Flowing

DAISHI
Sep 27th 2006, 09:34 PM
If you can't be part of the body of Christ on earth how do you hope to be part of it in Heaven?

rightin2
Sep 28th 2006, 05:06 PM
There is a verse about how some people make time everyday to worship, and others do it on one day. And God is okay with both.
do you happen to know which one? or, does anyone know which verse BbG means?

thanks!

rightin2
Sep 28th 2006, 05:11 PM
If you can't be part of the body of Christ on earth how do you hope to be part of it in Heaven?
i would say that it sounds like digger has no problem with 'the body of Christ on earth' - he's simply trying to find the 'earthly body' of people which most closly resembles his view of the 'Heavenly body'.

i feel the same as he does and thanks to digger for starting this thread :)

*Edit*
...and thanks to this board too :) there are many people here with a refreshingly straightforward view of the scripture - it's nice to be able to converse with people who aren't out to use The Word to justify their own opinions.

Beloved by God
Sep 29th 2006, 05:03 PM
Romans 14: 4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

timbojumbo
Sep 30th 2006, 10:02 AM
One thing which you will learn as you read the Word more is, we as Christians are the Body of Christ, and the Body of Christ is the Church... The church must be in unity. For example what happends if you take one log out from a burning fire? The fire will continue to burn but the one log on its own will go out. It is vital for a Christian to be with other believers. Not just for your sake but for others also.

_________________
millionCHRISTIANS.com -Get on the list... (http://millionchristians.com/)

Kinginsano
Sep 30th 2006, 01:14 PM
:agree: well said timbo, well said.

StevenC
Oct 3rd 2006, 03:00 AM
Why do we waste so much time in church NOT worshipping God?

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

We are told to worship in spirit and truth. What many may disagree over is what exactly that means. I take that to mean that we honor God by living the way he asked us to live, and when we teach, that we teach what is right by God, even if we have a hard time agreeing with God that we submit to his judgement in faith that he is right. Amoung other things.


Please give me a clear, specific verse, or chapter.... or a bunch of them, but please don't send me on a wild goose chase, I'd like an answer.
Thank you.

Hebrews 10:23-25 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: [U]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

I hope you weren't expecting a large sermon on the matter, you may be disappointed. In Hebrews, we are told not to forsake assembling ourselves together. The reason being is that we can encourage and help each other in understanding and living.

I can certainly understand having problems with Churches, my experiences haven't all been positive. It seems sometime Churches only will consider you a member if you agree with them and follow them blindly other churches have faulty doctrines teachings that grate against my conscience, and still others are just morally bankrupt. Still there are some things you cannot do as an individual that you can only do as a member of a Church, communion, washing of feet, etc. These are important to our faith as sharing communion is partaking in the body of Christ, and washing of feet is humbling yourself amoung your bretheren. Truth be told, Church attendance is one aspect I myself could improve on, so.. don't feel like you are alone.

-Steven

StevenC
Oct 3rd 2006, 03:05 AM
Woah - God just told me pretty clearly.. almost as soon as I left this forum.

BTW, in response to last comment, when I see experts disagreeing so much, I refuse to subscribe to anything that they are debatiung about. Not sure if I understood your point there, but that's all I'm really saying. Yes, I understand how important fellowship is.

digger,

There are no experts here, just other people like you, seeking God for guidance. Sometimes debate is good, sometimes its not, a healthy disagreement with a well formed points can sometimes help clear up misunderstandings.

-Steven

DAISHI
Oct 3rd 2006, 02:50 PM
I don't think it gets much worse than my church experience. I was kicked out of my church for telling the truth of a youth pastor; a year later he murdered a girl. No one listened, and I was the one thrown out for it, losing all my friends in the process because they thougt I was trying to cause trouble.

But I still love church.

How can you not? How can you not want to be around other people who encourage you in Christ and have light in them and talk about the good things of God? Light draws light, and together shine brighter. Discussions are Bilically grounded, lines are drawn on things of innapropriate nature, encouragement is promoted; how are these things to be rejected? Shall we reject these for the sake of encouraging friendships in the world? What has the world to offer us but darkness, and shall we trade the light of others for the darkness of this world?

NightWatchman
Oct 8th 2006, 08:02 AM
Digger, there was a time I stopped going to church meetings, and just hung out with a few close friends. There was also the time I did neither. And there is currently the time that I do both.

Continue to pray and seek God, and your journey will get clearer.:idea:

DAISHI
Oct 9th 2006, 07:12 PM
And I would say don't take the council of a person who condemns so quickly.

craqbin
Oct 9th 2006, 09:59 PM
I study with a church which is on the Internet and on TV. You don't have to actually attend to be in agreement with people although at the church I study they gather a few times each year with people around the country and fellowship. I would even consider these forums as church in the sense of fellowship with like minded people.

It is true that most churches don't teach chapter by chapter and verse by verse and in that sense Alexander Scourby would give you more Bible teaching in one hour than most churches.

Try to find a church that teaches chapter by chapter and verse by verse. To be fair my pastor usually goes chapter by chapter monday thru friday and on Sundays does topics like a regular Church. But the topics are always Biblical.

gospelmancan2
Oct 10th 2006, 05:07 AM
In looking through the answers already given I saw the verse in Hebrews I was going to quote about not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together.
The whole point of going to church is believers assembling together to worship God as a group and to build each other up. If neither of these things are happening at the church you are in you need to pray and seek God on where you are to attend church. Look around a little more. Maybe go outside the denominational group you are in now.
Here are some tips to finding the church for you. Find out through your own time in prayer what is on your heart to do for God. I have a heart to see our city transfomed for Christ for example. That being the case, I should be in a church with a calling and vision for the same.
If you are looking for worship (and we all should) find out if there is a church known for worship in your area.
Find a church that doesn't belittle others. We are commanded to love one another and love never belittles. I attend a church in which the Pastor or leadership never says anything demeaning about anyone whether they agree with us or not. We are not to judge as all judgement is given into Christ's hand. We are to walk in God's love through Christ.
Look around and don't settle for second best. There is a church out there that is waiting for you and not just because you need it but they need you as well. Each and everyone of us has gifts and talents built into us by God to bless others. The church you are to be in is diminished if you are not there. Think of it as a brick wall. Is the wall stronger with all the bricks in place or with every tenth brick missing? Of course the complete wall is stronger and so is the complete chuch.
The most important thing about going to church is our own attitude and walk with God. I need to be going to church all fired up and ready to meet God with the rest of my church family. I Don't go because I have to. I go because I want to. I go so we can all share an experience with God together and be strengthened together and individually at the same time. I want to see Brother David (who had an accident at home last week) and see how he's doing. I want to be available for God to use to lift up others.
This can only happen if I am there.

matthew94
Oct 10th 2006, 03:49 PM
We don't "go to church"
We ARE the church
We have a duty (and should have a desire) to meet with our brothers and sisters. The 'building' (or lack thereof) that you choose to meet in isn't important. But meeting together is.

poppa_50
Oct 10th 2006, 08:06 PM
One thing I have realized over the years.

You can go to church and still not have a vital relationship with other believers. Therefore, you can go to church and still not have a vital relationship with Jesus Christ. It's sad but I think true for many. I wrote a poem called "Dots in a box" to summarize my own personal experience of not being connected, but being among the dots on sunday morning.

It's been difficult these last two years not being grounded in a church family. We have been searching and tried them all it seems. One Sunday it just hit me. We are not in the "family". And how can one hour with anyone take the place of your "family"? It just doesn't matter if we are thumping the praise choruses or singing the old tried and faithfuls. It doesn't matter if there is a liturgical hymnal and organ or a big screen with todays hottest band. Nothing for one hour can begin to take the place of real family, of having an experience with brothers and sisters.

I long to find my brothers and sisters. Thank you God for that ache.

wwjd2day
May 8th 2008, 07:39 PM
God has said that the body of Christ is His church. We make up the body of Christ. You are the church. I agree with the comments of many others that you may need to find a new church to attend. That said, I also feel that you need to find a purpose within that church. You need a ministry my friend.
:wave:
God does want us to go to a church, but not the way that we do today. We are to support each other in truth (the Word of God) and love. If the church today were acting in accordance with the will of God, we would all be too busy serving others to worry over the politics of denominations. Too busy to be blogging our thougths and too tired to care what others were thinking about us. I pray that you will discover the joy that comes from serving our Lord. Finding a ministry will bring you into fellowship with other believers who feel strongly about the same things you do.
God bless you.

Revinius
May 11th 2008, 07:20 AM
Are you in Australia mate? (noticed your name) If your in Sydney i would love to help you find a solid church thats crazy for Jesus and not personal desires.

Raybob
May 11th 2008, 09:26 AM
I wrote a poem called "Dots in a box" to summarize my own personal experience of not being connected, but being among the dots on sunday morning.

I sure would love to hear it!:saint:
Raybob

War_Eagle
May 12th 2008, 06:51 PM
I am a Christian, and I have a Christian friend who will not discuss this civilly with me. She just tells me that "that's what God wants" and other simple arguments that she never supports. She'll send me an email from her pastor that dances around the topic, and states that it's good for the church if we go. I like the people at my church. It's a friendly environment. However, I feel like we waste so much time on our own concerns, that God is pushed to the back burner. I've been to several churches, and I find the same thing everywhere.

I am sick of pastors using God to justify their political beliefs. Two weeks ago, our pastor gave a lecture on how Islam cannot defend itself from attacks, because vengence is the Lord's. Then he goes on to say how we are obligated to God to retaliate when we are attacked... Huh? Ok, I don't want to get into political debates here - PLEASE! My point is that these sermons have nothing to do with the worship of God, but justification of our own seflish desires.

Next - Too many sermons are focused on debatable doctrine. Why do we have so many denominations and conflicting beliefs? Because there are very well-educated, God-loving Christians on all sides of any given issue. So then, why do we focus our church time on proving our own covictions to be accurate, and all others wrong? Because of our selfish desire to have God on our side, rather than a desire to change our views so that we are on God's side.

Why do we waste so much time in church NOT worshipping God?

I'd rather stay at home and listen to Alexander Scourby's reading of the KJV. I feel closer to God doing that and praying, then I ever have at church.

I'm not satisfied with someone telling me "that's what it says in the Bible," or, "that's what God wants," or, "God told me so-and-so..." Where does it say in the Bible that God wants us to go to church every Sunday, and that it's ok to judge and shout down those who don't?

Please give me a clear, specific verse, or chapter.... or a bunch of them, but please don't send me on a wild goose chase, I'd like an answer.
Thank you.

I don't believe that anyone who refuses to be a part of a local assembly of believers is saved in the first place. If you don't want to be a part of the body of Christ, then that's a good sign that you're not a part of the body of Christ.

Raybob
May 12th 2008, 09:14 PM
I don't believe that anyone who refuses to be a part of a local assembly of believers is saved in the first place. If you don't want to be a part of the body of Christ, then that's a good sign that you're not a part of the body of Christ.

You must be one of the fortunate few that have found a local assembly of saved believers. The last assembly I attended regularly, I can't say it was an assembly of saved believers. Yes, they all claimed to be saved but Jesus said we would know them by their fruits. Most everyone I became closely acquainted with showed too many works of the flesh (heresies, fornication, etc.) for me to know that they were truly saved.

Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

I believe I am to worship God every waking minute of every day, not just for one hour once a week.

Joh 4:21-23 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. ... But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Raybob

War_Eagle
May 12th 2008, 09:21 PM
You must be one of the fortunate few that have found a local assembly of saved believers. The last assembly I attended regularly, I can't say it was an assembly of saved believers. Yes, they all claimed to be saved but Jesus said we would know them by their fruits. Most everyone I became closely acquainted with showed too many works of the flesh (heresies, fornication, etc.) for me to know that they were truly saved.

Then, you may have had a BIblical case to leave that particular church, but you still have no excuse to abandon the gathering together of a local body of believers.


I believe I am to worship God every waking minute of every day, not just for one hour once a week.

I agree. However, it's been my experience that those who turn their back on the body of Christ don't worship Him at all.

Friend of Jesus
May 16th 2008, 08:36 PM
I personally don't go to church because I feel like I should be going- I go because I LOVE going to church and spending time with God.

Jesus died to compliment the God's law with the law of LOVE- which I obey very enthusiastically (can't spell)

God Bless!

jessiebby
Jun 5th 2008, 04:28 AM
You don't have to go to church, you can serve god anywhere..i don't go to church

rayboom7
Jun 1st 2012, 02:49 AM
Hey digger my name is ray and i just want to show u a scripture that says that leaving church is not a wise descision Read Hebrews10:24. In the name of Jesus!

Watchman
Jun 1st 2012, 03:34 AM
Evidently the Sadducees were wrong...there IS a resurrection...at least for old threads! Holy Cow, this one is 4 years dead. That beats Lazarus' record by a bit!

W :lol:

ewq1938
Jun 1st 2012, 04:21 AM
If you can't be part of the body of Christ on earth how do you hope to be part of it in Heaven?


Why be a part of the solution when you can add to the problem huh? That kind of response doesn't help anyone, anywhere.


And I would say don't take the council of a person who condemns so quickly.

....um...yeah

DIGGER:

No scripture commands us to "go to church" we are to love God and obey the commandments of Christ and be Christ-like. Neither Christ nor the body of Christ exists within a building.

Rev_21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

John 8:32
Jun 1st 2012, 11:11 AM
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

assembling ourselves together is derived from...

G1997
ἐπισυναγωγή
episunagōgē
ep-ee-soon-ag-o-gay'
From G1996; a complete collection; specifically a Christian meeting (for worship): - assembling (gathering) together.

and

G1438
ἑαυτοῦ
heautou
heh-ow-too'

(Including all the other cases); from a reflexive pronoun otherwise obsolete and the genitive (dative or accusative) of G846; him (her, it, them, also [in conjunction with the personal pronoun of the other persons] my, thy, our, your) -self (-selves), etc.: - alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own (-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them (-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).

Pretty much means what it says.

ewq1938
Jun 1st 2012, 12:20 PM
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

assembling ourselves together is derived from...

And "some" is derived from:

G5100
τίς
tis
Thayer Definition:
1) a certain, a certain one
2) some, some time, a while
Part of Speech: pronoun
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: an enclitic indefinite pronoun

Watchman
Jun 1st 2012, 12:45 PM
IIRC, the context of this passage is abandoning the body of Christ in the face of persecution...which is what was happening among the Jews of that day. Abandoning, or forsaking, is much different than attendance at a modern service that would have very little in common with meetings of saints then. Going to church is a misnomer. How can we go to that which we are?

In 1 Corinthians, Paul wrote:

For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. And if they were all one member, where would the body be? But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.


We are being built into a spiritual house. God places each one of us in the body of Christ exactly where He knows we belong. If we abandon/forsake each other, then we are not functioning as a body. We cannot bear each others' burdens if we are running away from each other in order to preserve our lives (the case in Hebrews) or if we simply do not associate. Going to church has replaced the organic, relational, full-time nature of the body of Christ. I am not advocating against corporate worship, rather, I am advocating for much, much more than meeting with other saints 2-3 times weekly and going through a preplanned program wherein the Holy Spirit is disallowed from controlling and ordering. We are the church at all times, regardless of what happens on Sundays. The body of Christ is family at all times. Going to church very often dilutes and distorts that truth.

W :D

-SEEKING-
Jun 1st 2012, 03:18 PM
I'm hoping that since the almost 6 YEARS ago this was started that the OP got his or her answer.

One can hope.

teddyv
Jun 1st 2012, 04:16 PM
I'm hoping that since the almost 6 YEARS ago this was started that the OP got his or her answer.

One can hope.The zombie apocalypse is among us.

John 8:32
Jun 1st 2012, 04:29 PM
I'm hoping that since the almost 6 YEARS ago this was started that the OP got his or her answer.

One can hope.

Even though it is an old thread and the OP probably has an answer by now, it is an opportunity to discuss and learn.

Watchman
Jun 1st 2012, 04:29 PM
Nooooooo! Not the zombie apocalypse...not that! :rofl:

John 8:32
Jun 1st 2012, 04:30 PM
The zombie apocalypse is among us.

By the way teddyv, has anyone ever told you that you have the coolest avatar?

teddyv
Jun 1st 2012, 04:36 PM
By the way teddyv, has anyone ever told you that you have the coolest avatar?I think there have been a couple mentions, but regardless, thanks.

Watchman
Jun 1st 2012, 04:37 PM
IIRC, the context of this passage is abandoning the body of Christ in the face of persecution...which is what was happening among the Jews of that day. Abandoning, or forsaking, is much different than attendance at a modern service that would have very little in common with meetings of saints then. Going to church is a misnomer. How can we go to that which we are?

In 1 Corinthians, Paul wrote:

For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. And if they were all one member, where would the body be? But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.


We are being built into a spiritual house. God places each one of us in the body of Christ exactly where He knows we belong. If we abandon/forsake each other, then we are not functioning as a body. We cannot bear each others' burdens if we are running away from each other in order to preserve our lives (the case in Hebrews) or if we simply do not associate. Going to church has replaced the organic, relational, full-time nature of the body of Christ. I am not advocating against corporate worship, rather, I am advocating for much, much more than meeting with other saints 2-3 times weekly and going through a preplanned program wherein the Holy Spirit is disallowed from controlling and ordering. We are the church at all times, regardless of what happens on Sundays. The body of Christ is family at all times. Going to church very often dilutes and distorts that truth.

W :D
Now, back to our previously scheduled program, already (some years ago) in progress.

W :)

Theophilus
Jun 1st 2012, 04:39 PM
By the way teddyv, has anyone ever told you that you have the coolest avatar?

It's the teeth, man...I just can't tear my eyes away.


Uh, wait....did someone say zombie apocolypse? {internal note to self: sharpen katana tonight}

To the OP: The Bible says we must attend church at the bottom of the index page, right after the copyright date. Sheesh, doesn't anyone read the fine print anymore?

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 1st 2012, 04:55 PM
Why wouldn't someone want to attend church? It's the same reason they don't read their Bible, grow in holiness, become separate from the world, witness to the lost, tell the truth, and walk in righteousness: because they don't belong to God.
Those who belong to God enjoy the things of God. We don't have to force ourselves to study His Word or be among His people.
So, I'd say that if you don't want to go to church...stay home. We've got tons of fakers keeping our pastors busy counseling them as it is.

Watchman
Jun 1st 2012, 05:28 PM
Why wouldn't someone want to attend church? It's the same reason they don't read their Bible, grow in holiness, become separate from the world, witness to the lost, tell the truth, and walk in righteousness: because they don't belong to God.
Those who belong to God enjoy the things of God. We don't have to force ourselves to study His Word or be among His people.
So, I'd say that if you don't want to go to church...stay home. We've got tons of fakers keeping our pastors busy counseling them as it is.
I have attended many services that are DEAD. Why would one want to attend those?


W :)

PS: I don't attend dead serivices because I DO belong to God!

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 1st 2012, 05:32 PM
I have attended many services that are DEAD. Why would one want to attend those?


W :)

PS: I don't attend dead serivices because I DO belong to God!

By church I don't mean a room full of people. Believers are obligated to seek out other believers and assemble.

John 8:32
Jun 1st 2012, 05:55 PM
By church I don't mean a room full of people. Believers are obligated to seek out other believers and assemble.

Ekklesia - the called out ones.

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 1st 2012, 06:07 PM
Ekklesia - the called out ones.

Yes. ecclesia militans

Bandit
Jun 1st 2012, 06:31 PM
Where does the Bible Say We Have to go to Church?

Please tell me we don't have to go to church in Las Vegas, Nevada. That is just too far of a drive.

Watchman
Jun 1st 2012, 06:34 PM
By church I don't mean a room full of people. Believers are obligated to seek out other believers and assemble.

Assemble for what?

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 1st 2012, 07:02 PM
Assemble for what?

Like I said: If you don't want to go...stay home.
Assemble for what? How about fellowship? Proverbs 27:17 says "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another" so our social dealings and interactions with others wear off on us. If we spend time in the bar, we'll grow more and more like the others there. We'll "...consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds" as stated in Hebrews 10:24. You may also (while your at church) learn something about the Lord, have opportunity to teach someone else or edify another in some way supporting the body of Christ.
If you're not a member of the body of Christ....what makes you think you're a member of the Body of Christ?
Have you ever met those "covert Christians"? They say that they serve Jesus but they really don't do anything. They "follow" Christ in word but not deed. They just kinda do whatever they want....stay home and watch basketball, "knock back a few with the bros", maybe sprinkle a little raunchy movies into their lives to keep things interesting and keep them for "that dusty old book grandma gave me". So what if we listen to blasphemy on television and who cares if God said "He will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His Name"
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
1 John 2:3
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
1 John 5:3
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Watchman
Jun 1st 2012, 09:41 PM
Like I said: If you don't want to go...stay home.
Assemble for what? How about fellowship? Proverbs 27:17 says "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another" so our social dealings and interactions with others wear off on us. If we spend time in the bar, we'll grow more and more like the others there. We'll "...consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds" as stated in Hebrews 10:24. You may also (while your at church) learn something about the Lord, have opportunity to teach someone else or edify another in some way supporting the body of Christ.
If you're not a member of the body of Christ....what makes you think you're a member of the Body of Christ?
Have you ever met those "covert Christians"? They say that they serve Jesus but they really don't do anything. They "follow" Christ in word but not deed. They just kinda do whatever they want....stay home and watch basketball, "knock back a few with the bros", maybe sprinkle a little raunchy movies into their lives to keep things interesting and keep them for "that dusty old book grandma gave me". So what if we listen to blasphemy on television and who cares if God said "He will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His Name"
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
1 John 2:3
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
1 John 5:3
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
As I asked, 'assemble for what?' Fellowship is good. Encouragment, comfort, and exhortation are good. Preplanned programs, OTOH, are not always good.

W :)

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 1st 2012, 11:40 PM
As I asked, 'assemble for what?' Fellowship is good. Encouragment, comfort, and exhortation are good. Preplanned programs, OTOH, are not always good.

W :)

How are you going to have a program unless someone plans it? "Okay guys, I want you all here at some point next week and then we'll decide what we'll do based on who shows up and when."
It'd be complete chaos man.
Assemble to talk about the Lord, learn, fellowship with other Christians, to address needs and resolve issues, to disciple one another, send forth or provide for missions and just to chat with a friendly face. There are tons of reasons to assemble. Humans are social beings and benefit from positive interaction.

Watchman
Jun 2nd 2012, 12:05 AM
How are you going to have a program unless someone plans it? "Okay guys, I want you all here at some point next week and then we'll decide what we'll do based on who shows up and when."
It'd be complete chaos man.
Assemble to talk about the Lord, learn, fellowship with other Christians, to address needs and resolve issues, to disciple one another, send forth or provide for missions and just to chat with a friendly face. There are tons of reasons to assemble. Humans are social beings and benefit from positive interaction.I have actually experienced meetings where a message, and nothing else, was planned...and the Holy Spirit took things in a direction that completely ignored the preplanned message. Going to church is little more than ritual when folks exclude the control of the Spirit.

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 2nd 2012, 12:18 AM
I have actually experienced meetings where a message, and nothing else, was planned...and the Holy Spirit took things in a direction that completely ignored the preplanned message. Going to church is little more than ritual when folks exclude the control of the Spirit.

So why not go to church?

Watchman
Jun 2nd 2012, 12:41 AM
So why not go to church?
Why not? I never said no church.

ewq1938
Jun 2nd 2012, 12:47 AM
Why not? I never said no church.

We are free to go to a "church" bodily, or not to if we choose. It doesn't affect your relationship with God. Is a man wrongly sentenced to life in prison, solitary confinement doomed to hell because he cannot "go to church"? Or someone who lives in a remote area where no churches are located?

Bandit
Jun 2nd 2012, 07:43 AM
We are free to go to a "church" bodily, or not to if we choose. It doesn't affect your relationship with God. Is a man wrongly sentenced to life in prison, solitary confinement doomed to hell because he cannot "go to church"? Or someone who lives in a remote area where no churches are located?

Well, a Christian should have a desire to be around other Christians (and other people in general in hopes of opportunities to share the good news). So someone who always locks himself away from others probably also has relationship issues with God. Remember, God wants us to love others (which is one big way that we show that we love Him). So does one have to go to church every Sunday? No. But if one is in the habit of regularly avoiding meeting with other Christians, then I would say something is probably wrong.

ewq1938
Jun 2nd 2012, 11:38 AM
Well, a Christian should have a desire to be around other Christians (and other people in general in hopes of opportunities to share the good news).

A Christian is not mandated to be around other Christians, especially ones who judge everyone.



So someone who always locks himself away from others probably also has relationship issues with God.

What exactly do you base this judgement upon other than your opinion? I recall John the Baptist spending a great deal of his time alone until he was called to do otherwise.



Remember, God wants us to love others (which is one big way that we show that we love Him). So does one have to go to church every Sunday? No. But if one is in the habit of regularly avoiding meeting with other Christians, then I would say something is probably wrong.

No there is nothing wrong if one chooses not to go to a physical church and you are correct that one need not go to church every Sunday.

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 2nd 2012, 12:43 PM
I don't understand why there is so much negative sentiment to church. It's like children digging in their heels shouting "I won't go". Folks invent a thousand reasons to not get off their couch and fellowship; "Oh those church people are judgmental hypocrites", “Oh that church isn’t “spiritual”.
Let’s get to the real reasons folks don’t go: 1) they’re lazy, preferring to sleep in or sit at home. 2) They’re selfish, not caring to assist in meeting the needs of others 3) they prefer the things of this world to the things of God (i.e. they are unregenerate) or 4) they’re judgmental, thinking themselves to be somehow spiritually elitist and above mandates to be among “those lowly people” at church.
Of course there are as many reasons to no go as a man can invent to justify himself. Run along now, we have no need of you.

Watchman
Jun 2nd 2012, 12:46 PM
I don't understand why there is so much negative sentiment to church. It's like children digging in their heels shouting "I won't go". Folks invent a thousand reasons to not get off their couch and fellowship; "Oh those church people are judgmental hypocrites", “Oh that church isn’t “spiritual”.
Let’s get to the real reasons folks don’t go: 1) they’re lazy, preferring to sleep in or sit at home. 2) They’re selfish, not caring to assist in meeting the needs of others 3) they prefer the things of this world to the things of God (i.e. they are unregenerate) or 4) they’re judgmental, thinking themselves to be somehow spiritually elitist and above mandates to be among “those lowly people” at church.
Of course there are as many reasons to no go as a man can invent to justify himself. Run along now, we have no need of you.
Those are truly sad reasons for doing/not doing anything. I simply pointed out that what we call 'going to church' is a misnomer, that our meetings would hold little resemblance to meetings of the early saints, and that the verse in the OP means more than what is being discussed.

blessings,

Watchman :)

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 2nd 2012, 01:50 PM
Those are truly sad reasons for doing/not doing anything. I simply pointed out that what we call 'going to church' is a misnomer, that our meetings would hold little resemblance to meetings of the early saints, and that the verse in the OP means more than what is being discussed.

blessings,

Watchman :)

I agree. Once folks stop viewing church as needed for the imparting of grace we'll finally be rid of these who show up among us with a mechancal religion.

shepherdsword
Jun 2nd 2012, 02:29 PM
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

assembling ourselves together is derived from...

G1997
ἐπισυναγωγή
episunagōgē
ep-ee-soon-ag-o-gay'
From G1996; a complete collection; specifically a Christian meeting (for worship): - assembling (gathering) together.

and

G1438
ἑαυτοῦ
heautou
heh-ow-too'

(Including all the other cases); from a reflexive pronoun otherwise obsolete and the genitive (dative or accusative) of G846; him (her, it, them, also [in conjunction with the personal pronoun of the other persons] my, thy, our, your) -self (-selves), etc.: - alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own (-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them (-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).

Pretty much means what it says.


I notice that this verse doesn't spell out a specific ritual or ceremony to fulfill the criteria for assembling ourselves. This verse is fulfilled in any meeting where two or three are gathered in the name of Jesus. While some may use it to enforce on the body a gathering in some building for a classic ritual of the commercialized church,nothing could be farther from the truth. The spirit of it is best fulfilled by an intimate gathering of saints who know and love each other...as Christ loved the church. It cannot be fulfilled by going to some meeting as a spectator and listening to one man speak to a group of people you don't even know. Our idea of "church" has been corrupted by years of Nicolatian( the conquering of the laity) doctrine and the Balaam type hirelings who teach for gain. People are leaving the commercial church system in droves because of the hypocrisy and the lack of reality. They long for a gathering that is filled with love,anointing and life. This is impossible to experience in a meeting where the format is governed by man and the ticking of the clock. Those that hunger and thirst for righteousness recognize their own destitute state and the inability of man controlled agendas to deliver them. These are the true sons of God that are destined to come together as living stones and make up the bride without spot or wrinkle. The religious Pharisaical leaders of the corrupt church system will be confined to the bondage of the harlot as they sell themselves and God's eternal purpose for worldly gain. Jesus is coming back for a bride adorned and made ready for her husband,only the pure in heart will take part.

ewq1938
Jun 3rd 2012, 02:44 AM
I don't understand why there is so much negative sentiment to church. It's like children digging in their heels shouting "I won't go". Folks invent a thousand reasons to not get off their couch and fellowship; "Oh those church people are judgmental hypocrites", “Oh that church isn’t “spiritual”.
Let’s get to the real reasons folks don’t go: 1) they’re lazy, preferring to sleep in or sit at home. 2) They’re selfish, not caring to assist in meeting the needs of others 3) they prefer the things of this world to the things of God (i.e. they are unregenerate) or 4) they’re judgmental, thinking themselves to be somehow spiritually elitist and above mandates to be among “those lowly people” at church.
Of course there are as many reasons to no go as a man can invent to justify himself. Run along now, we have no need of you.

I think you've done a perfect job of badly representing church goers.

shepherdsword
Jun 3rd 2012, 05:21 PM
I think you've done a perfect job of badly representing church goers.

I do see an element of truth in andrew's response but it begs the question: How do we define "church"?

If it is defined as a building with a non profit 501C3 where people gather to hear a good sermon as a spectator and throw their 10% into the plate then he has missed the mark. If it is defined as any meeting where people come together in Jesus's name to encourage and minister to one another in a corporate way for the building up of the body then it has merit.

The "ekklesia" is merely a name given to those who are called out from the world and it's commercial ventures,to be set apart to worship the one true God through his Christ and partake of heavenly things.To conform the word to our paradigm of some denominational organization is to miss the the fact that it is a living breathing organism. The difference between the two is the gap between the harlot and the bride.

Watchman
Jun 3rd 2012, 05:35 PM
I do see an element of truth in andrew's response but it begs the question: How do we define "church"?

If it is defined as a building with a non profit 501C3 where people gather to hear a good sermon as a spectator and throw their 10% into the plate then he has missed the mark. If it is defined as any meeting where people come together in Jesus's name to encourage and minister to one another in a corporate way for the building up of the body then it has merit.

The "ekklesia" is merely a name given to those who are called out from the world and it's commercial ventures,to be set apart to worship the one true God through his Christ and partake of heavenly things.To conform the word to our paradigm of some denominational organization is to miss the the fact that it is a living breathing organism. The difference between the two is the gap between the harlot and the bride.
Outstanding. I'd rep you if I could. Church is not where we go, it is who we are. We are the church. We are the church full time. When we meet together, it is not for a preplanned program...that is a design of man and excludes, for the most part, the control and movement of the Holy Spirit. Someone, it may have been you, used the term, commercial church. That is an apt descriptor for what most view as 'church.'

blessings,

Watchman :)

mikebr
Jun 3rd 2012, 06:15 PM
I am in a unique situation where most of the people I work with are Christians; at a public school no less. We share music, books and scripture on a regular basis. (more than once per week) We have great biblical discussions and often meet to pray. We all are able to fulfill our calling on a daily basis as well and we love each other. I'm sorry folks but this is much better than attending church on Sunday. I am a faithful member at the church I attend and have been for twenty years, but I actually get to be the church on the job and I minister to a bunch of kids for 8 hours per day 5 days a week. I agree with Watchman in the last post, I am the church. I am His body. Any other requirements put on us by man is legalistic at best and demonic at worse.

Watchman
Jun 3rd 2012, 08:13 PM
I am in a unique situation where most of the people I work with are Christians; at a public school no less. We share music, books and scripture on a regular basis. (more than once per week) We have great biblical discussions and often meet to pray. We all are able to fulfill our calling on a daily basis as well and we love each other. I'm sorry folks but this is much better than attending church on Sunday. I am a faithful member at the church I attend and have been for twenty years, but I actually get to be the church on the job and I minister to a bunch of kids for 8 hours per day 5 days a week. I agree with Watchman in the last post, I am the church. I am His body. Any other requirements put on us by man is legalistic at best and demonic at worse.Yes and amen.

blessings,

Watchman :)

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 3rd 2012, 08:18 PM
I am in a unique situation where most of the people I work with are Christians; at a public school no less. We share music, books and scripture on a regular basis. (more than once per week) We have great biblical discussions and often meet to pray. We all are able to fulfill our calling on a daily basis as well and we love each other. I'm sorry folks but this is much better than attending church on Sunday. I am a faithful member at the church I attend and have been for twenty years, but I actually get to be the church on the job and I minister to a bunch of kids for 8 hours per day 5 days a week. I agree with Watchman in the last post, I am the church. I am His body. Any other requirements put on us by man is legalistic at best and demonic at worse.

That's wonderful! Praise God. :)

ewq1938
Jun 3rd 2012, 11:03 PM
I do see an element of truth in andrew's response but it begs the question: How do we define "church"?

There are often elements of truth in things that are badly wrong. What I found appalling was all the judgmental assumptions: if you don't go to church then you're lazy, or you are selfish, choosing the world over God and the Andrew's ending with the self righteous we don't want your types in our church anyways declaration .

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 3rd 2012, 11:38 PM
There are often elements of truth in things that are badly wrong. What I found appalling was all the judgmental assumptions: if you don't go to church then you're lazy, or you are selfish, choosing the world over God and the Andrew's ending with the self righteous we don't want your types in our church anyways declaration .

Let's back this up a bit please.
Those who suffer from preventive infirmity aside, why should we ignore the mandate to assemble?
Further, my "infamous" closing to a previous post wasn’t meant to discourage anyone other than those who don’t care to come from attending church. As I said, it’s easy for folks to come up with excuses why they don’t do such-and-such but I feel the main reasons exist inside their own selfishness (again, infirmity aside). These are the exact people we’d benefit without. They remain in the body for whatever reason and become cancers, choosing to gossip, hinder, or glean attention for their self-imposed dilemmas. Those we wish to be rid of are the professing brethren with no works, the workers of iniquity who perhaps are driven by their own guilt or condemnation by their conscience to attend church, which could be good- if they allowed the Spirit to minister to them instead of picking apart the sermon or creating new doctrine to suit their lusts.

ewq1938
Jun 3rd 2012, 11:44 PM
Let's back this up a bit please.

Let's start with withdrawing all your assumptions? They are uncalled for.



Those who suffer from preventive infirmity aside, why should we ignore the mandate to assemble?

What mandate?



Further, my "infamous" closing to a previous post wasn’t meant to discourage anyone other than those who don’t care to come from attending church.

It reflects badly upon you to say such things.

AndrewBaptistFL
Jun 3rd 2012, 11:49 PM
Let's start with withdrawing all your assumptions? They are uncalled for.



What mandate?




It reflects badly upon you to say such things.

Neat. That was quite selective of you.