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Studyin'2Show
Dec 27th 2006, 12:18 PM
Is it true that psycologist and those in similar fields have a higher occurance of mental illness? Could that be because understanding how the psyche works may give a false notion that you can somehow control it more than others?

Owen
Dec 27th 2006, 12:27 PM
Is it true that psycologist and those in similar fields have a higher occurance of mental illness? Could that be because understanding how the psyche works may give a false notion that you can somehow control it more than others?

Lets take this to PMs if you would like to discuss it because I would rather keep this thread focused upon conversion. Thanks :)

crosspreacher
Dec 27th 2006, 01:23 PM
physchology is a man based religion that teaches on the basis that man can help himself, the bible from Genesis to Revelation teaches that man CANNOT help himself.
Of course man can drop and pick up bad habits by himself to some extent. for example before I was saved, i quit going to hookers before i got married. But it wasnt until i accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and my savior that the lust was removed from my heart.
Physcholgy vainly attempts to change mans habits while Jesus changes mans heart. Glory be to God

DAISHI
Dec 27th 2006, 01:27 PM
Why do I feel as if my profession is slammed every other thread these days?

Owen
Dec 27th 2006, 01:46 PM
physchology is a man based religion that teaches on the basis that man can help himself, the bible from Genesis to Revelation teaches that man CANNOT help himself.
Of course man can drop and pick up bad habits by himself to some extent. for example before I was saved, i quit going to hookers before i got married. But it wasnt until i accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and my savior that the lust was removed from my heart.
Physcholgy vainly attempts to change mans habits while Jesus changes mans heart. Glory be to God

Psychology is the observation of human behavior. To observe human behavior is not man-based religion. It is observation as anything else and observation is not sinful. Certain streams do apply it to do what you say, but the observation of human behavior is not guilty of that. By the very fact that you experienced a life change through God and talking about it, you are discussing human behavior which is the realm of psychology.

I have a psychological understanding, but that psychological understand also makes God essential in this world for us to live righteously. Is that a man-based religion or is that applying psychology to understand human behavior and the change it has through God more deeply?

Do not paint broad brushes, nor judge a field on the basis of a few.

BTW any mod that can in here, would you please move this string of conversation (including the posts prior to this) into another thread. I don't want to divert the purpose of this thread but I don't mind discussing this topic.

crosspreacher
Dec 27th 2006, 01:50 PM
Why do I feel as if my profession is slammed every other thread these days?

ur in a profession that is hard to carry along with your being born again, but you cant take it personally, your a blood bought child of God, and thats formost:D Alot of us have to keep secular jobs that may not line up with our faith. thats what stinks about being in the world. Lets just hope jesus comes back soon:hug:

Owen
Dec 27th 2006, 03:11 PM
Now that this thread has been created... I am just curious, what do y'all perceive the possible role that psychology can give to help us understand our relationship to God and spirituality? This is open to everyone.

BTW Studyin2Show, I'll address your question here a little bit later. But a very general answer is yes, but it needs to be understood in a little more detail.

Offering of Praise
Dec 27th 2006, 04:24 PM
While I don't agree with all aspects of Psychology, there is good in it and I say that as a Licensed Christian Therapist. The reason I did not just go straight secular therapist is because it was my desire to use the word of God to help people with their problems and "issues."

Unlike a lot of counselors today, I make people take responsibility for thier actions and choices. I refuse to let people I counsel blame their past or blame unfortunate things that happened to them be the reason for who they are today, the way they think and the things they do.

There needs to be a lot more accountability today on the "patient" in the psychology realm than just to say it's sickness and not sin.

I've seen many people helped through good Bible/Christian counseling.

I'll be the first to tell you upfront that Freud was a sex obsessed individual who himself had problems he refused to deal with.

disiple56
Dec 27th 2006, 04:30 PM
I'll be the first to tell you upfront that Freud was a sex obsessed individual who himself had problems he refused to deal with.

And Jung thought that God's name was "synchronicity".

Frances
Dec 27th 2006, 05:47 PM
Having done a Psychology in Evangelism course in the past I think it can be helpful providing a Christian knows the Bible well enough to 'eat the flesh and spit out the stones'. . . it can be a helpful tool but is not helpful if taken to extremes, which possiby those who committed suicide had done.

Owen
Dec 27th 2006, 06:04 PM
I think we need to ask the question though, can we use psychology to give us insight into meanings of Scripture (of course considering them in context and not just saying it aligns with this psychological principle) or psychology only to be understand in light of Scripture?

By this I mean, for example take Romans 6:19. It sounds a lot like Paul applies the ideas of habits to lawlessness and sanctification? Would it be wrong for us to bring the behavioral view of habits into this verse, of course considering that the writers of the Bible would not have had the type of understanding that psychology has. Whereas the writers would understand most everything in terms of sin and holiness and any psychological principles they understood would be very basic and relatively easy to see, psychology sees things more in terms of behavior and theory and not in sin and holiness.

Long story short, can we take the author of the Bible in some instances to be referring to what would be basic principles of psychology and applying it to the realm of holiness and sin (and spirituality in general)?

moonglow
Dec 27th 2006, 06:07 PM
While I don't agree with all aspects of Psychology, there is good in it and I say that as a Licensed Christian Therapist. The reason I did not just go straight secular therapist is because it was my desire to use the word of God to help people with their problems and "issues."

Unlike a lot of counselors today, I make people take responsibility for thier actions and choices. I refuse to let people I counsel blame their past or blame unfortunate things that happened to them be the reason for who they are today, the way they think and the things they do.

There needs to be a lot more accountability today on the "patient" in the psychology realm than just to say it's sickness and not sin.

I've seen many people helped through good Bible/Christian counseling.

I'll be the first to tell you upfront that Freud was a sex obsessed individual who himself had problems he refused to deal with.


I don't know if you realized how cold hearted that sounded...:( There are people who are/were deeply affected by horrible abuse as children...to just dismiss that and 'zero' in on their current sins to 'hold them accountable' is well alot like pouring salt in the wounds. It doesn't take that much thinking to realize a young woman who is sleeping around with older men is due to being sexually abused by her dad or step dad at a young age...and she is seeking to find that love that was denied her....so to her love has become distorted and twisted and found only in sex. To just blast her with her 'sins' of sleeping around, doesn't help her understand why she is doing it in the first place ...once she does understand it she can be directed to the healthy love of a Father in Heaven...but until she understands why she is doing what she is doing, I think she is going to have a rough time finding God and building a healthy relationship with Him.

Its not about 'blaming the past'.....its about acknowledge how the past does affect us and affects our very relationship with God...the past explains...then the healing can start then the accountablity can start too. Alot of times people don't even understand why they do what they do...to lump it all in with 'we are all born with a sin nature' isn't enough...not for those actually seeking to understand why they ruin the relationships they have now, or what they caught in ...

I truly hope you are not talking to the people that come to see you in the tone you have used on here....20 some years ago...when I was wanting to kill myself and didn't know why and you talked that way to me, that probably would have been enough to push me on over the edge and confrim I was indeed the worthless miserable human being I thought I was and I didn't deserve to live....I had blocked out the abuse so had no idea why I got so severly depressed...so I wasn't 'blaming the past' as I couldn't remember the past...

the only thing I knew was I hurt...:cry: and I could barely think let alone function...and I had no idea why. I wasn't out 'sinning' as I couldn't function...

I just hope you are much kinder to those hurting seeking your help.

Owen
Dec 27th 2006, 06:16 PM
I don't know if you realized how cold hearted that sounded...:( There are people who are/were deeply affected by horrible abuse as children...to just dismiss that and 'zero' in on their current sins to 'hold them accountable' is well alot like pouring salt in the wounds. It doesn't take that much thinking to realize a young woman who is sleeping around with older men is due to being sexually abused by her dad or step dad at a young age...and she is seeking to find that love that was denied her....so to her love has become distorted and twisted and found only in sex. To just blast her with her 'sins' of sleeping around, doesn't help her understand why she is doing it in the first place ...once she does understand it she can be directed to the healthy love of a Father in Heaven...but until she understands why she is doing what she is doing, I think she is going to have a rough time finding God and building a healthy relationship with Him.

Its not about 'blaming the past'.....its about acknowledge how the past does affect us and affects our very relationship with God...the past explains...then the healing can start then the accountablity can start too. Alot of times people don't even understand why they do what they do...to lump it all in with 'we are all born with a sin nature' isn't enough...not for those actually seeking to understand why they ruin the relationships they have now, or what they caught in ...

I truly hope you are not talking to the people that come to see you in the tone you have used on here....20 some years ago...when I was wanting to kill myself and didn't know why and you talked that way to me, that probably would have been enough to push me on over the edge and confrim I was indeed the worthless miserable human being I thought I was and I didn't deserve to live....I had blocked out the abuse so had no idea why I got so severly depressed...so I wasn't 'blaming the past' as I couldn't remember the past...

the only thing I knew was I hurt...:cry: and I could barely think let alone function...and I had no idea why. I wasn't out 'sinning' as I couldn't function...

I just hope you are much kinder to those hurting seeking your help.

I don't think he (or she) means to be a harsh person with what he does. I thing he means to say that people have a choice in what they do and one can not simply chalk it up to the past. He may take into account the past, but also says that one makes a cognitive choice also. At least that is the way I know many therapist approach human behavior.

And I have to agree with him too. We should hold people accountable for what they do and not just say its okay because of ones past. Essentially, you have people saying many murders are only that way because they were brought up in a bad home. And yes, this has an effect on why they do what they do, but there has been a trend in many areas to say that ones actions is solely because of the past and it wasn't in any way out of a choice.

We need to understand a person's past and accordingly extend a level of grace depending of what brought them to a certain situation. For instance if an abused child grows up as violent, we would be more graceful to them for an act of violence than say the child who had a good home life and still was violent. However, there still has to be an accountability for what one has done. Today though there seems to be a current to deny personal responsibility.

moonglow
Dec 27th 2006, 06:18 PM
Now that this thread has been created... I am just curious, what do y'all perceive the possible role that psychology can give to help us understand our relationship to God and spirituality? This is open to everyone.



In helping us understand our relationship with God? I really have no idea...not from the secular world's viewpoint anyway. The bible itself is full of ideas and a way to think and live that will keep us emotionally and mentally healthy...some are similar to some of the ideas in psychology (as in changing the way you think)...but usually God is left out and I don't think any secular therapy can be totally successful without God in it...the spirit is rarely address...I have seen too many that improved in their mental health but never got completely well because the spiritual part of them was never addressed....only the mind was treated...some physically as with medication but never the spirit so they never got completely better again. :(

God bless

moonglow
Dec 27th 2006, 06:29 PM
I don't think he (or she) means to be a harsh person with what he does. I thing he means to say that people have a choice in what they do and one can not simply chalk it up to the past. He may take into account the past, but also says that one makes a cognitive choice also. At least that is the way I know many therapist approach human behavior.

And I have to agree with him too. We should hold people accountable for what they do and not just say its okay because of ones past. Essentially, you have people saying many murders are only that way because they were brought up in a bad home. And yes, this has an effect on why they do what they do, but there has been a trend in many areas to say that ones actions is solely because of the past and it wasn't in any way out of a choice.

We need to understand a person's past and accordingly extend a level of grace depending of what brought them to a certain situation. For instance if an abused child grows up as violent, we would be more graceful to them for an act of violence than say the child who had a good home life and still was violent. However, there still has to be an accountability for what one has done. Today though there seems to be a current to deny personal responsibility.

Yes I know...we see that in the court system...I don't see it in the mental health centers though...shoot I can't even get my son's therapist to connect the dots with some of the things Nate has done as being a direct result of what he saw his dad do....(for instance him witnessing his dad kicking his dog around when angry and then Nate abusing our pets) when I tried to bring it up...so we would know where he learned it and how it affected him (getting at the root of the cause), I was told to be quiet...and Nate was only told to 'not do that cause it was wrong'....so Nate was certainly having his behavior excused because of his past...his past was ingored...

Then for me, when I wanted to talk about what I went through with my ex, to just get the pain and anger out and deal with it I was told to 'forget the past' it doesn't matter...its over and done with...I went to three different therapist....the first put me on meds to control my anger (which I had to surpressed for years in order to deal with ex and finally came to the surface) rather then my getting it out and dealing with it, I was just drugged. I couldn't function...stopped the meds and went to two other therapist who would not let me discuss ex at all because it was 'in the past and didn't matter'....:B :B Well it did too matter! I went through hell over and over again...I needed to talk it out...that is all I wanted to do....talk it out! And no therapist would listen....they just wanted me to 'relax'...go home and do 'relaxation exercises'....I was ready to explode! I could have been one of those that just went off the deep end and gone and shot up a bunch of people because no one cared enough to listen to my pain....all that did was cause me more pain and more fury...

Then I would have been sitting in court and the therapist would testify and say...'oh the past doesn't matter...who knows why she shot all those people...let her hang!' ugh!!!!

Its just a good thing I had God to turn too...what I needed was to get it out and He listened to me and then let me know what I needed was to forgive ex...that was the only way the anger and pain would go away...and it was hard but He worked with me on it and I did it...no thanks to any of the therapist I saw...

Here no one can blame their past cause they refuse to let anyone even talk about their past...:B

threebigrocks
Dec 27th 2006, 10:20 PM
But, how can we use psychology to understand scripture?

The first thing that came to my mind was when Peter denied Jesus.

How did Paul continue on in despite of many of the daunting circumstances he came under, in despite of the thorn of his side to boot?

How about Mary and Martha? What made them act so differently - one busy with preparation and one to simply sit at the feet of Jesus?

Lots of different things in scripture to observe, and then to turn again and observe how Jesus reacted to them. I love watchiing people, we are curious creatures, and I can't help but to think that we aren't that much different deep down then people were back then.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 28th 2006, 12:37 AM
I have no problem with psychology. I believe that as with anything else it can have purpose. My seventeen year old daughter feels called into the field of psychology. She was concerned because she knows that in order to receive a degree she will have to learn certain things that she doesn't believe are theologically sound. I feel that if God has put this desire on her heart that He will guide her through it.

When I originally asked the question about why those in the field seem to have a greater occurance of mental issues I was genuinely curious. I've heard of men who wrote psych textbooks that ended up committing suicide and just really wonder how someone who spends their life attempting to understand the mind can become so disallusioned. Any ideas that can be shared?

khalou
Dec 28th 2006, 02:19 AM
I have no problem with psychology. I believe that as with anything else it can have purpose. My seventeen year old daughter feels called into the field of psychology. She was concerned because she knows that in order to receive a degree she will have to learn certain things that she doesn't believe are theologically sound. I feel that if God has put this desire on her heart that He will guide her through it.

When I originally asked the question about why those in the field seem to have a greater occurance of mental issues I was genuinely curious. I've heard of men who wrote psych textbooks that ended up committing suicide and just really wonder how someone who spends their life attempting to understand the mind can become so disallusioned. Any ideas that can be shared?

I think I've read that doctors, nurses, therapists, etc are more likely to commit suicide because of the high stress of their jobs, combined with the easy access to drugs.

But here's a comforting site--

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jan01/suicide.html

k

Studyin'2Show
Dec 28th 2006, 02:36 AM
I think I've read that doctors, nurses, therapists, etc are more likely to commit suicide because of the high stress of their jobs, combined with the easy access to drugs.Yes, but if psychology works wouldn't they be the ones with the most access to the therapy and the drugs to keep them from going over the edge? I've heard that many therapists have therapists, so shouldn't they catch it before suicide?

khalou
Dec 28th 2006, 04:26 AM
Yes, but if psychology works wouldn't they be the ones with the most access to the therapy and the drugs to keep them from going over the edge? I've heard that many therapists have therapists, so shouldn't they catch it before suicide?

I've heard that too.

But I don't think it's an advantage to know too much. The trouble with psychology is that it is a science, and not a physical one per se. It tries to watch what happens well before it is understood how it happens. Sort of an opposite of evolution.

Human psychology happens every second of every day on a grand scale. Therapists have to take the current theories and make sense of them. If their bit of research has educated them on some school of thought, there might be some other school of thought that may differ, but they aren't yet aware of it. Freud vs Jung is only the tip of the iceberg, and, while all have the best intentions, they can't all focus on every aspect of the Psyche at once.

If a therapist has feelings of suicide by virtue of the stress of the job, and has been recently studying aspects of suicide that don't deal with their particular issues, then they can, clinically, say no to each and every possible therapy that's suggested by whatever they've recently been in to. "No, that isn't why, no, that isn't why, no...." Then the decision might be made that their case is unique. That is pure speculation on my part, and isn't even scientific, but it occurred to me.

Another explanation is that clinical depression is well outside of the realm of reason. If you're depressed for no reason at all, what can possibly lead you to have any notion of salvation? It is the chemicals in your brain that make you profoundly depressed. However, the knowledge that there are drugs that might combat this should (you would think) lead a therapist to understand what might be done. But think about it- depression is sometimes seen as a warm pool in which to enter, and float- forgetting the cares of the world. A clinically depressed person, (once again not according to science, but my own imagination) might decide that it isn't the worst thing in the world to end it all.

But I hope you clicked on my link, which showed that there really is no reason to believe that a therapist might be more prone to suicide than any other person. :hug:

k

Owen
Dec 28th 2006, 08:48 AM
I think part of the explanation for why psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, counselors, etc. have a high suicide and depression rate is because they are in an environment that seems to be something where depression seems inevitable. A person in that role with any empathy will feel saddened at some of the people they see, which if they are not careful can take a toll on the person. This in a sense can begin to create a "habit" of negative emotions if one isn't careful. If everyone around you was suffering, you would begin to feel bad yourself because it would seem like the world was falling down. There are ways to overcome it though, but it isn't easy.

This is also in conjunction with the fact that most people who do therapy want to see their clients do well and if they can not help them, it can bother them.

Also, this isn't true for psychologists who do not do much in the field of counseling and therapy. For instance experimental and social psychologists would not be expected to have it as severe as ones who do counseling and therapy because they are doing more research.

DAISHI
Dec 28th 2006, 10:54 AM
Yes, but if psychology works wouldn't they be the ones with the most access to the therapy and the drugs to keep them from going over the edge? I've heard that many therapists have therapists, so shouldn't they catch it before suicide?

In testing we always keep the doctors and subjects blind to the objective. The reason is because, knowing the process, the end result is highly influenced by their knowledge and it's not a true solution. If you're in the psychology field, going to another psychologist may not have the results it would a standard individual, since awareness of the techniques and strategies employed affect the way we cognitively process them. We may even subconsciously reject them since we feel we are already aware of them. Or we may even feel that, being in the psychology field, we should be aware of these techniques and handle our lives since we are -indeed- handling the lives of others.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 28th 2006, 12:07 PM
I guess I have a more spiritual view of this because of my own experience. Before I was born again I had a problem with severe depression. I would say that every day of my life presented me with a reason to cry and be in deep dispair. I put my husband and my family through so much during that time as they dealt with my roller coaster of emotions. I had considered suicide many times but something always kept me from following through. I was really bad off and used the drugs to give me some semblance of joy if only for a moment.

When I got saved it wasn't in a church or something it was because I had been challenged to read the Bible and when I picked it up and read it as a book and not just in bits and pieces here and there, it came alive to me. I started in the book of Matthew and before I was halfway through that gospel I knew I needed Jesus. Because I saw my life as worthless at the time I had no trouble giving it completely to Christ, holding nothing back. Immediately, things began to change in my life. My husband noticed and asked me what happened and I shared my experience with him. Whether you believe it or not I have not had another day of deep depression since. Not one! It was truly a miracle! At least two people have since come to Christ because of the radical change they saw in my life.

People say it is a chemical imbalance and I'm sure it is. My father was institutionalized for a few months when I was a teenager so I don't even doubt that it can be genetic. He got saved about ten years before I did. But for me I was literally BORN AGAIN so somehow it doesn't affect me like it used to. I fell completely into the word of God so when thoughts come to me now I do as Jesus did when He dealt with the evil one in the wilderness. I use the Word of God. I say it is written and quote God's Word and it goes away. Why do other Christians who deal with depression not have the same experience as I did? I don't know but I'm here to, by my testimony, give them encouragement that they can overcome, in Christ.

Offering of Praise
Dec 29th 2006, 12:04 AM
As a Pastor and as a Christian therapist, I believe in two types of depression. I believe in depression that can be fixed with increased prayer and Bible reading and attending worship and living a life of personal worship.

Then there is depression that comes from a chemical inbalance in the brain. The Clinical Depression that is very real and affects A LOT of Christians and non-Christians alike. It has nothing to do with lifestyle nor with attitudes but with chemicals in the brain. Mental illness is real and should be treated by qualified professionals.

There is nothing wrong with dealing with depression. I have dealt with it personally in myself and professionally. We need to be sensitive when others have this and give them all the support we can.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 29th 2006, 12:16 AM
Things still may come at me sometimes but I feel that my defenses are stronger. I have backup! Like I said before, I use the Word as a weapon against the enemy. I was always functional so although I felt these things I was always able to put on a fake 'everythings fine' face and go to work. I do not discount the fact that my father (though he was institutionalized once) and I did not have as serious an occurance as others. I do, however, feel that only a combination of Jesus and meds can be expected to have any lasting effects for those who may need meds. Meds alone are not the answer, IMO.

calidog
Dec 29th 2006, 12:24 AM
Is it true that psycologist and those in similar fields have a higher occurance of mental illness? Could that be because understanding how the psyche works may give a false notion that you can somehow control it more than others?I think they reach a point of total frustration and despair.

phsychology=science of man to understand man

faith=science of God Who knows man that man may know God:bounce:

threebigrocks
Dec 29th 2006, 12:58 AM
I do, however, feel that only a combination of Jesus and meds can be expected to have any lasting effects for those who may need meds. Meds alone are not the answer, IMO.

:amen:

I've been there myself. I struggled with depression for years, and like studyin' said, as soon as I was reborn it left me. I was able to wean off my meds quicker than the doctor expected me to also. I still struggle from time to time, but rarely does it last more than a day or two, and I know it is then that I need to be in prayer, give it up to the Lord and really look at my own thinking. I hope I never have to return to meds, as 99% of my life is very good, but if I do I know that without Christ I'm done.

Offering of Praise
Dec 29th 2006, 01:05 AM
but if I do I know that without Christ I'm done.

I wish more people in this world would come to the same knowledge. I say AMEN to this!

lordzboy
Mar 31st 2007, 01:20 AM
physchology is a man based religion that teaches on the basis that man can help himself, the bible from Genesis to Revelation teaches that man CANNOT help himself.
Of course man can drop and pick up bad habits by himself to some extent. for example before I was saved, i quit going to hookers before i got married. But it wasnt until i accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and my savior that the lust was removed from my heart.
Physcholgy vainly attempts to change mans habits while Jesus changes mans heart. Glory be to God I think your thoughts on this is very religious themselves. Physchology is totally biblical, it's just not called "physchology" and the bible does teach that we as humans can help each other and ourselves. Look at James 5:16... it tells us to cofess our faults to one another because their is healing in that process... this is the exact same things that physchology teaches us to do. Look at Philippians 4:8... it tells us to think on positive things because that brings peace to our minds. Why do you think groups like AA is so successful? Its because they practice the priciples that the bible teaches... Christian or not. If you are a Christian and throw a rock in the air does the law of gravity bring it back down? Yes it does. If a non-Christian throws a rock in the air does it do the same thing? Yes it does... so does the principles of God... it's like the law of gravity... if ya apply the priciples you'll see the same results.
Many Christians have gotten in spiritual deniel of plain simple truth, facts, and reality. If a christian over eats he gets un-healthy just like a sinner does. If a Christian hits his thumb with a hammer it will bleed just like a sinners will... not everything is a super spiritual holy holy holy process like many Christians want to think it is.
Anyway, i hope i dont seem to rude because that was not my intention. I just think that alot of people miss out on good help due to over spiritual thinking sometimes.

Jesusinmyheart
Apr 3rd 2007, 08:20 PM
Psychology is a fascinating field for me, and i wonder how much of this hormonal stuff is actually true.

What i'm trying to say with that above statement is, i have read that when depression goes on for too long it can/will cause a chemical change in your brain. I can believe that to an extend, but i do not believe that it's incurable.

If the way one has felt about their life which in turn produces a host of negative thoughts, which in turn i believe could cause that chemical change in a brain, then changing one's outlook and line of thinking should return things back to normal in the ideal scenario.

Why does it not always work, and why do people need drugs to combat these things.

I agree sometimes drugs may be beneficial, but i'm strongly against anyone just being given the "happy" pill, and no further action is taken.

I certainly do not buy into depression is hereditary type of deal, for several reasons: Human behavior is very learned, and biblically speaking the sins of our parents are often inherited, until we learn to be accountable and change our ways... or decide not to, which in turn will continue the next generation onto the same path of misery.

I think psychology has to come to the conclusion that our actions and the actions of others have a more profound effect on us, but that we no matter the reason are still accountable if we dish out the same nasty deed we receiced. In all reality, someone who had been punched in the face, should know how it feels, and not make someone esle suffer the same.

Maybe in a perverse way in the cycle of those that fall into the molestation categories, feel they are diverting some of their own pain, when they do the same to yet another victim. Not to mention when it comes to a young mind, who learns that "this is the right thing to do" Thouygh i doubt that line a tad, cause deep inside we all have been given this innate feeling of right and wrong.

I believe it all boils down to God being in our lives and accepting what he says and implementing it.

I do not want to appear harsh, and i admit i do not know how this would come out practically, cause unfortunately this word continues to bombard us with standards set by society, and ungodly dealings.

It is hard for one to heal in this world.

I see Studying 2 show's example as well as TBR's and my own experience falls into the same category.

I suffered from a deep depression for which i did not get help since i had no insurance, for 3 years, and medicated with MJ. This only caused me to have an added problem as i did never want to be dependent on a drug, nor on the huge amounts of alcohol i was consuming.

This deepened my depression in some ways while the MJ outwardly helped in the fact that i temporarly found some joy, though short lived.

In that same time i also struggled with anxiety/panic attacks, that were brought on by my asthma, as well as my lifestyle, and my circumstances.

This too went untreated, and while i got off the MJ about 3 years after i started, my anxiety/panic attacks continued and even worsened, especially after the birth and loss of my firstborn son.

All in all i went from '93 til 2000 with this panic/ anxiety disorder untreated. Back in 98 when i lost my baby, and started in earnest seeking God, my anxiety doubled and trippled, and by 2000 i was suicidal for i was in constant torment.

But God was in control, (and still is) and did something to where i finally was calm enough to make a decision for myself to be put on meds. All these days and years constantly being anxious and panicked did not give my mind the chance to even think straight about what was going on with me, much less how to help myself.

So i decided meds, and decided to get off of them as soon as i knew i was stable and secure enough in my walk with God to do without the pills.

This happened within 6 month of the beginning of 2000, and i was free from meds as well as the anxiety attacks. I leanred to overcome the small episodes that were trying to come on (i feel attacks from the enemy) with scripture, and i have been anxiety free for over 3 years now.

I know for a fact without God, nothing would have changed. Even my asthma is gone to the point of having maybe an episode with shortness of breath, but nothing major that i dealt with on a daily basis back in 93, and i'm harldy using any meds.

As for psychologists and counselors being in bad shape, i have my suspiscion, tyhat many of them especially those that do not involve God in their own lives are going down that road due to being exposed to all this emotional trauma.
The sin of others exposure to sin still reaches far like a ripple of water.

I am in the view that God is in control of everything, and with that outlook, i would not ever feel i cannot help someone if i were to counsel a person.
It's either in His will or not in His time yet, or God knows what. I know i'd certainly do my best to help anyone. By the same token, i also learned the lesson of needing to accept help, at least, and wanting to be helped, as well as helping myself.

It's like learning to walk for a baby, if you accept help, and go through the motions yourself, likely you'll succeed, but if you expect to always have someone, or something (the "happy" pill) to see you through it, likely things will not change.

This is why i think behavioral therapy (God+ man) as well as having God in your life (on a personal level) is so important when it comes to mental healing.

macarnett
Apr 10th 2007, 12:32 PM
I'd say it was time to find another therapist. I'm trying to think of a charitable thing to call a person who doesn't think a parent's example affects a child. So far I haven't thought of one.

Kimberlydiscover7
Apr 16th 2007, 09:34 PM
This is where I have a problem. I have suffered from clinical depression for most of my life and I am only 21. I believe to my best ability in God, but due to my mind becoming more of a psychology major in trying to understand myself, I have, in a way analyzed the concept of God and religion to tiny bits. I am believing out of pure desperation for something better. I have been a wreck for months about this. it's as if someone told me there was no God, and I knew for sure...and I was taking that fact very badly. I don't know, but I seem to find more answers to many things in science and common sense than in religion. :cry: I want to see and know where God comes in. I am sorry if I offend, I want more than anything to believe fully.

Studyin'2Show
Apr 16th 2007, 10:43 PM
This is where I have a problem. I have suffered from clinical depression for most of my life and I am only 21. I believe to my best ability in God, but due to my mind becoming more of a psychology major in trying to understand myself, I have, in a way analyzed the concept of God and religion to tiny bits. I am believing out of pure desperation for something better. I have been a wreck for months about this. it's as if someone told me there was no God, and I knew for sure...and I was taking that fact very badly. I don't know, but I seem to find more answers to many things in science and common sense than in religion. :cry: I want to see and know where God comes in. I am sorry if I offend, I want more than anything to believe fully.Kimberly, I too have dealt with serious depression. Mine lasted until just after my 31st birthday. In no way do I want to trivialize your experience so instead I will simply testify as to mine. I too was unable to find relief in 'religion', instead I attempted to self-medicate myself with everything from marijuana to heroin. I was pretty much a manic, changing moods at the drop of the hat. Every day there was a reason to cry; every day a reason to get high. Looking back it is amazing that I was functional but always on the edge. I share this simply to qualify my statements to follow.

So, anyway, about eight and a half years ago my mother, who after being RCC for 35 years, had just gotten 'saved' almost two years prior. She asked me if I'd ever read the Bible. I was like - Hello! You sent me to catholic school, you know I had religion classes. Of course I've read the Bible! Then she said something that has changed my life. She said - No, not because you're told to and not in bits and pieces here and there, but like a book, because you want to? I could not say yes to that. She challenge me to read it, like a book, and being quite a bit stubborn, I could not let her one up me. So, my journey began in Matthew and I have literally never been the same. I'm not really sure when it changed for me, but it most definitely changed. It was not about some abracadabra type formula that took away my mourning and replaced it with joy. All I can say is that it was Jesus. I don't know how but I know it happened. I would give you the same challenge my mother gave me, read it like a book. Not because you're trying to fix something, not because you have to but just because somehow deep down you know that's what you should do. Keep taking your meds or whatever you do to control it now, and just begin the journey. That's my advice from one has laid on the bed (often) bawling, wanting nothing more than to die so the emotional pain would stop.

God bless you as you search for true peace!

Harrison Potter
Apr 17th 2007, 10:00 PM
This is where I have a problem. I have suffered from clinical depression for most of my life and I am only 21. I believe to my best ability in God, but due to my mind becoming more of a psychology major in trying to understand myself, I have, in a way analyzed the concept of God and religion to tiny bits. I am believing out of pure desperation for something better. I have been a wreck for months about this. it's as if someone told me there was no God, and I knew for sure...and I was taking that fact very badly. I don't know, but I seem to find more answers to many things in science and common sense than in religion. :cry: I want to see and know where God comes in. I am sorry if I offend, I want more than anything to believe fully.

Kimberly, I did a search from another post of yours (Why is it so hard) to find out what was so hard for you. My ex- wife was probably a lot like you when she was your age. She was depressed a lot too for some reasons I may not remember. She was always analyzing things too. Always needed to see proof. Boy was that frustrating. Even though, if you have read most of my views on life and how a lot of things can be explained and have a relation to things in the Bible, I still have many questions of much deeper things that if I were to ponder them constantly I would go out of my mind because they are beyond the human mind to handle. You have to set those things aside because you will know about them later when you are with God in Heaven. You like history so stay down here on earth to do the analyzing and leave the rest to God. All that God asks is that you have faith in Him. Don't try and analyze Him because you can't so why try? You try to do things so hard and want answers to everything right now when maybe if you would step back you would find that the crazy molocule you have been trying to figure out is actually part of a beautiful flower given to you by God and you are just too close to see it.
hugh:idea:

Kimberlydiscover7
Apr 17th 2007, 11:15 PM
My heavens, am I that obvious....you do know me, well, through your wife!You are right on, I am very analytical. I think from not knowing why I feel like this , since I was a child, and knowing unhappiness makes me want happiness more than anything. Real and true happiness, so I just want to be sure of things...In trying to figure myself out, I try and figure everything else out. Why this or that, what went wrong here or there, because I suppose I feel like I did something wrong to feel this way so often.... I am scared.

threebigrocks
Apr 18th 2007, 01:57 AM
My heavens, am I that obvious....you do know me, well, through your wife!You are right on, I am very analytical. I think from not knowing why I feel like this , since I was a child, and knowing unhappiness makes me want happiness more than anything. Real and true happiness, so I just want to be sure of things...In trying to figure myself out, I try and figure everything else out. Why this or that, what went wrong here or there, because I suppose I feel like I did something wrong to feel this way so often.... I am scared.

One of the most difficult things is to realize that spiritual things happen in God's timing. I had a very hard time dealing with that. I'm also driven to take care of whatever needs taking care of, and be done with it. That includes the very stuff you mentioned, such as why something is. Gotta find a conclusion!

Thing is, we can't change God's plan, His perfect timing. The more we get ourselves out of His way, let our understanding or desire to understand step aside, the better things will be. Yes, it can make you feel like you are missing God, missing something, and to be honest you probably are.

Not easy, and it takes time. It took me a while to get my desires out of the way, and really let Him be the Lord over my life. It's one thing to accept it, it can be another to fully submit to it. Time and prayer and persistence are a good combination to get there.